kirkor wrote: »

Holy shinto that UC Davis mouse study is amazing! I'll be looking forward to when it's published.

Good explanation of supplementing salt.

re: intermittent fasting, the question of an extra long fast seemed to be a bit of a red herring. Fasts that long are just straight up "fasting" not *intermittent* fasting, which is why the IF term exists in the first place. Glad he said he had zero issue with fasts <48hrs, since that is the majority of IF protocols. And also since his main concern was protein & LBM loss, that dovetails well with Lyle McDonald's PSMF protocols we brought up in another thread.

I'm very based on this issue. So there's that. I have the utmost respect for Dr Phinney, but on this issue I find his arguments a bit peculiar He talks about "lean tissue loss" without specifically pointing out that the studies he refer to are
a) very long term starvation studies. Not to mention using emotionally laden examples of prisoners from war and an anorexic pop star. He as a researcher should know, he shouldn't jump to conclusions using data from starvation as an argument vs. fasting,
b) does not specify that lean tissue also includes blood (water weight) inside muscles and organs. which could be a bit misleading because loss of muscle fibers and other lean tissue is NOT the same.
this link popped up on ketogains this week:
http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/index.php/free-content/free-content/volume-1-issue-5-the-pitfalls-of-body-fat-measurement-parts-5-and-6-skinfolds-and-dual-energy-x-ray-absorptiometry-dexa/the-pitfalls-of-body-fat-measurement-part-6-dexa/
It explains why measuring changes in body composition is VERY INACCURATE.
So how do science actually measure pure muscle fiber loss, exactly?

c) we are all catabolic after PP. The protein turnover is variable, ie exercise and why people who are physically active can/need more protein. We are ALSO shedding hair and skin all day. This is also part of the protein turnover. Plus water weight can vary quite some lbs during a day...I wouldn't confuse any of that with muscle fiber loss. Now the rhetoric: You weigh yourself in the morning, then you drink 20oz of water. Now, you have "gained" 20 oz of Lean BodyMass (LBM) ... but have ya gained 20 oz of muscle fiber? Ofc, not. You've gained water weight which is a part of LBM with current technology.

d) and what about gastric bypass then? It's a surgically enforced starvation. If it was so wasting in muscle fibers as Dr. Phinney tends to let us believe these days, I don't understand how gastric bypass patients don't wane away much sooner. Did he say a quarter pounder a day of LBM loss?

e) He didn't mention that GH naturally increases during sleep, also increases after about 18 hrs of not eating (I don't remember exactly how many hrs)...possibly to counter muscle fiber loss. Actually, when you look at the processes that happen during sleep, they're eerily similar to the same stuff as when fasting, such as: cell regeneration and repair. Aging is after all the body's incapability to self heal in same tempo as cell damage.

There are plenty of highly respected researches nowadays in the field of fasting and autophagy : Mark Mattson and Longo and the Nobel Laureate Ohsumi. It turns out that cell repair does NOT occur with too much energy surplus. l'm currently convinced autophagy IS the fountain of youth,