Keto, insulin and inflammation question

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Replies

  • solska
    solska Posts: 348 Member
    rfrenkel77 wrote: »
    The answer to original question is both steak and apple will spike equal insulin and stop ketosis ie fat furn. I learned some pathology especially from the last link. that was a very readable article, canadjineh.
    Still amazing that there is notable difference between animal protein from chicken bacon and fish and beef.

    Amounts matter as well as pairings. If you eat an apple with some fat as some cheese it will effect your blood sugar less. If you eat a piece of steak with lots of fat it will have a different effect, if you eat two pounds of lean beef at once it will have a different effect. Lots of advice out there also about how grass fed beef will effect your body differently then others due to cla. I find that a lot of protein will effect my blood sugar. Too little protein is something I don't want to risk, but it's indeed not too easy to get too little protein a lot of new research says. The key seems to be always as high good fats as possible and little and good carbs.
  • solska
    solska Posts: 348 Member
    rfrenkel77 wrote: »
    The sites mention the gluconeogenesis is a demand driven process. Ok. So in a keto adapted individual glucose demand is not high, but still the body is not going to dump excess protein but convert it into energy/glucose, just because it has it. That is now available to burn instead of your own fat storage. Seems like limiting down protein still still a good idea to get more fat burn. Just brainstorming. What you all think? The only way to force body to tap into fat storage is the force a drastic calorie drop from all sources. Fasting that is.

    Drastic calorie drop isn't a great idea. In the long run, it's not sustainable. IF doesn't mean you restrict calories. You are right on the money about excess protein etc. Try eating high fat, moderate protein, and very little carbs for a few days without restricting calories on a moderate if 16:8. And put butter on that steak:)
  • KnitOrMiss
    KnitOrMiss Posts: 10,103 Member
    rfrenkel77 wrote: »
    The sites mention the gluconeogenesis is a demand driven process. Ok. So in a keto adapted individual glucose demand is not high, but still the body is not going to dump excess protein but convert it into energy/glucose, just because it has it. That is now available to burn instead of your own fat storage. Seems like limiting down protein still still a good idea to get more fat burn. Just brainstorming. What you all think? The only way to force body to tap into fat storage is the force a drastic calorie drop from all sources. Fasting that is.

    @rfrenkel77 - The thing is, your body is smart. It adjusts to calorie restriction, especially extreme calorie restriction, by reducing metabolism to match. Essentially, your body thinks there's some degree of famine, and so it will slow your metabolism to keep you alive. It won't catch up instantly, but within 1-2 weeks. So you'll have a huge drop at first, as your old higher metabolism burns through your new lower calorie intake. Then, as the body realizes, "Oh, this isn't just a day or two. We must have hit famine or have to eat way less for a while, so since we (the body, we) LOVE stasis, we'll slow the metabolism to match the calories!" So then, your metabolism will always try to match your caloric intake. It is the body's defense mechanism to have enough fat stores to survive famine, and then also to keep itself the same. The body strives for balance, for stasis. It doesn't like change. So, to keep the body guessing and to keep the metabolism burning and churning, you'd be better off doing some kind of calorie cycling protocol - rather than extended fasting.

    Intense or extended fasting actually have different effects on the body, and as I understand it, really are not intended for actual weight loss. They repair insulin sensitivity and autophagy and many things...but as soon as you resume caloric intake, the body will breath a sigh of relief and soak it all in, so to speak...


    TL;DR - you can trick the body, but only for so long. It adapts. And it likes to stay where it is, so you have to mix it up to keep the metabolism guessing.
  • catherineg3
    catherineg3 Posts: 127 Member

    very good information. I've been watching Dr. Bernstien's diabetes University on youtube, I'm about halfway through that series. I feel like that has been the best source of information for me regarding how to manage diabetes. I'm type 2, and a lot of the information is based on his experience as type 1, but a lot of it is still applicable to me and helping me understand how my f'd up metabolism actually works. that's the first place I heard someone say that protein causes an insulin response and rise in blood sugar. I guess all type 1 diabetics know that, but mainstream usually only talks about carbs.

    He recommends for his diabetic patients a diet that is very low carb <12 g per meal, as much protein as needed for satiety, with moderate fat. then the patient has to determine through testing themselves how much insulin they need to take to keep glucose level under control.
  • rfrenkel77
    rfrenkel77 Posts: 103 Member
    KnitOrMiss wrote: »

    Intense or extended fasting actually have different effects on the body, and as I understand it, really are not intended for actual weight loss. They repair insulin sensitivity and autophagy and many things...but as soon as you resume caloric intake, the body will breath a sigh of relief and soak it all in, so to speak...


    TL;DR - you can trick the body, but only for so long. It adapts. And it likes to stay where it is, so you have to mix it up to keep the metabolism guessing.

    You right, but I was not intensive fasting, just tried 2 weeks of one day on one day off. I’m relatively lean so an extended fast will just eat me up. Just trying to find the magic combo for fat burn only. I attached pic of my weight response to alt. day fasting.
  • KnitOrMiss
    KnitOrMiss Posts: 10,103 Member
    rfrenkel77 wrote: »
    KnitOrMiss wrote: »

    Intense or extended fasting actually have different effects on the body, and as I understand it, really are not intended for actual weight loss. They repair insulin sensitivity and autophagy and many things...but as soon as you resume caloric intake, the body will breath a sigh of relief and soak it all in, so to speak...


    TL;DR - you can trick the body, but only for so long. It adapts. And it likes to stay where it is, so you have to mix it up to keep the metabolism guessing.

    You right, but I was not intensive fasting, just tried 2 weeks of one day on one day off. I’m relatively lean so an extended fast will just eat me up. Just trying to find the magic combo for fat burn only. I attached pic of my weight response to alt. day fasting.

    @rfrenkel77 - I think I would be more interested to know what your health markers did during that time. Fasting glucose/insulin, A1C, trigs, etc. :)
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