midwesterner85 wrote: »

nvmomketo wrote: »

melmerritt33 wrote: »

I’m still here but mostly carnivore rather than fully. I don’t know why but every time I try full carnivore I end up failing and then thinking oh well I’m a failure and reverting back to old habits and bingeing on carbs. Im thinking it’s just some sort of mental and emotional thing as I have had issues about eating meat before so my new mantra is keep it mostly carnivore and so far that seems to be working better. I feel so much better physically when I’m eating lots of meat so I know it’s the right food for me. I love how cutting right down on plants clears up my digestion problems too.

Yeah. Like you, I'm not as strict as some but I'm making more of an effort to find my mostly meat niche. Meat seems to agree with my body the most, but it is my least favorite type of food so it seems harder to stick to... easier to lose weight with though because I don't eat as much.

I went back to higher carb levels after the last meaty challenge. I think I thought I was rewarding myself. It was the early beginning of my slow slide back to more carbs. Not this time.

I get it... my challenges are low BG (especially during exercise) where I have no choice but to take glucose tablets.

Dairy (cheese) is the other area where I get carbs. I'm hoping to give up cheese by July.

Also, I'm working on cutting back artificial sweeteners. I've already given up diet soda, and I'm using up my supply of sucralose that I add to coffee. I think I'm a few weeks away, but will see. However long it takes, I'm not buying another bag.

Coffee is one of those things that might be allowed on a carnivore diet, but I've been cutting back on the strength of my coffee. Eventually, I would like to be able to go without. This won't be forever, but perhaps for special situations where I want/need the caffeine boost. I believe coffee causes some interference with hunger signals, and I'm hoping I can get to a point where I can eat the right amount just by listening to my body.

My experience thus far is that I feel best when eating beef, as compared to other meats like pork, chicken, etc. I'm thinking of switching to beef only at some point. I have some chicken, pork, and venison in the freezer to use first. I also plan to get some fish at variable points throughout the rest of the year and hope to get rabbits, squirrels, and deer later this year. So the idea of eating just beef may not work out 100%, but I could buy just beef and make exceptions for anything else I kill myself.

Red meat seems to work the best for me too... Or I'm just projecting because I like the taste and ease of cooking with it the best.

I've never eaten squirrel. Seems like too much work for one animal. Way too much if there are a few.

I decided to drop out early. I was using this as an elimination diet. I eat this way for BG control. There is no weight loss needed and only about 10-15 lbs when I started keto a couple years ago. However, my FBG has never improved and my A1c only improved slightly from 6.6-6.7 down to 6.0-6.1 through all the various hacks I have tried.

Long story short, I have read a crap ton on MODY. Initially, I blew it off as a possibility because of one line about being diagnosed under 25. However, given I never had my BG tested until I was 36 at which time my FBG was 110 and no A1c test was done and when I finally did get my A1c tested at 44 and was diabetic, my FBG was still 110, I realized I couldn't have gotten diagnosed if I had never gotten tested.

In looking at multiple sources, the second most common form of MODY (there are 7 known genetic mutations so far with as many as a dozen more suspected) MODY Glucokinase, fits not just me, but my dad and his dad to a T. So, I started moving to my next self experimentation so I can have a bit more data before my next Dr appointment in a few months.

There is a genetic test I have done, but it is several hundred dollars and insurance doesn't cover it. This is pretty stupid on the part of insurance because they will pay for me to take metformin (which has zero effect on my BG which is one of the characteristics of this form of MODY), as if it is confirmed that I do have it, the treatment is to not treat meaning they would pay nothing further. This form has slightly elevated BG that never significantly progresses as has none of the normal adverse health effects normally attributed to T2.

Probably more than any of you wanted to know, but, I rarely drop out of something and wanted to give an explanation even though I don't really "know" any of you, I have had online discussions with some of you for quite a while now.

midwesterner85 wrote: »

@cstehansen Regarding MODY, have you had gad and c-peptide tests? Typically MODY patients would have c-peptide test results resembling that of a type 1, and have gad results showing they do not have anti-bodies of a type 1. If your theory is correct, the c-peptide results would be less extreme than a T1, but would still show a reduced insulin release.

For MODY1 and MODY3, you are correct. However for MODY2, it is more of a set point issue where the body has that set point higher than normal. Insulin production and insulin sensitivity is good. I already knew I was insulin sensitive through several measures and my glucose and fructose metabolism was actually better than average.

MODY1 and MODY3 are very similar but are caused by different genes and are generally misdiagnosed as T1. MODY2 is more commonly misdiagnosed as T2 because C-peptides are not diminished. Part of why I blew this off early on was I didn't know there were different types and I did not fit the MODY1 or MODY3 model which was what I initially read about.

Below is a graph from one of the papers that shows how MODY2 compares to "normal" in terms of A1c by age. This lines up with someone like my dad who was diagnosed pre-diabetic around 1990 as a very fit special ops guy in the army but his A1c has only slightly gone up during that time. The only real "treatment" is diet to avoid the PP highs. He was 70-80% paleo before paleo was a thing so just avoiding all that pre-packaged crap kept him lower carb and certainly lower glycemic.



I am gradually getting carbs up to a higher level and then do my own version of a OGGT at home. If I have this, I should see a relatively normal curve, just a little higher and potentially a little slower downtrend in BG but not as high a typical T2 and returning to my normal pretty close to the same as a non-diabetic.

I am also going to get a two-pack of the home A1c tests and test my daughter and myself at the same time. Since mine has been very consistent for the last couple years now, it is more of an accuracy gauge. If my daughter (who is about to turn 13 and is far from overweight) has a mildly elevated A1c for her age (really anything above 5.2 at this point given her diet and other health markers), then that would be a good indication she has the gene as well. Since it is monogenetic, that means it is dominant and she has a 50-50 chance if I have it. This is actually one of the strategies used by the researchers on one of the studies where they found people with this is they tested all the kids in the family and used them as a proxy test. I wasn't smar enough to come up with that on my own.

I don't want to take her to the doctor to get it checked at this point because if it came back as pre-diabetic, that would be on her permanent health records and could mess her up down the line with health or life insurance. Given this gene has only been recently discovered, and that the medical advice changes so slowly, I don't want to give her that disadvantage.

Based on how these two things go, I will be talking with my doc about both an anti-body test (to rule out LADA) and doing an OGTT along with an insulin assay. The insulin assay results would be almost as good as the gene test in accuracy.

fdhunt1 wrote: »

TheDevastator wrote: »

I'm not full carnivore but I'm buying more meat because of this thread. Grass fed burgers, grass fed hot dogs, and pork sirloin just to name a few. Nice infographics^. What do you all think of braunschweiger?

Love it! Braunschweiger, liver sausage, beef & chicken livers - I love it all. If you can handle it, some of the most nutritious meat you can eat.

I love braunschweiger and chicken livers. I need lots of onions and butter with beef or pork liver for me to eat it. It's so nutritious, it will correct anemia in no time.

nvmomketo wrote: »

cstehansen wrote: »

midwesterner85 wrote: »

@cstehansen Regarding MODY, have you had gad and c-peptide tests? Typically MODY patients would have c-peptide test results resembling that of a type 1, and have gad results showing they do not have anti-bodies of a type 1. If your theory is correct, the c-peptide results would be less extreme than a T1, but would still show a reduced insulin release.

For MODY1 and MODY3, you are correct. However for MODY2, it is more of a set point issue where the body has that set point higher than normal. Insulin production and insulin sensitivity is good. I already knew I was insulin sensitive through several measures and my glucose and fructose metabolism was actually better than average.

MODY1 and MODY3 are very similar but are caused by different genes and are generally misdiagnosed as T1. MODY2 is more commonly misdiagnosed as T2 because C-peptides are not diminished. Part of why I blew this off early on was I didn't know there were different types and I did not fit the MODY1 or MODY3 model which was what I initially read about.

Below is a graph from one of the papers that shows how MODY2 compares to "normal" in terms of A1c by age. This lines up with someone like my dad who was diagnosed pre-diabetic around 1990 as a very fit special ops guy in the army but his A1c has only slightly gone up during that time. The only real "treatment" is diet to avoid the PP highs. He was 70-80% paleo before paleo was a thing so just avoiding all that pre-packaged crap kept him lower carb and certainly lower glycemic.



I am gradually getting carbs up to a higher level and then do my own version of a OGGT at home. If I have this, I should see a relatively normal curve, just a little higher and potentially a little slower downtrend in BG but not as high a typical T2 and returning to my normal pretty close to the same as a non-diabetic.

I am also going to get a two-pack of the home A1c tests and test my daughter and myself at the same time. Since mine has been very consistent for the last couple years now, it is more of an accuracy gauge. If my daughter (who is about to turn 13 and is far from overweight) has a mildly elevated A1c for her age (really anything above 5.2 at this point given her diet and other health markers), then that would be a good indication she has the gene as well. Since it is monogenetic, that means it is dominant and she has a 50-50 chance if I have it. This is actually one of the strategies used by the researchers on one of the studies where they found people with this is they tested all the kids in the family and used them as a proxy test. I wasn't smar enough to come up with that on my own.

I don't want to take her to the doctor to get it checked at this point because if it came back as pre-diabetic, that would be on her permanent health records and could mess her up down the line with health or life insurance. Given this gene has only been recently discovered, and that the medical advice changes so slowly, I don't want to give her that disadvantage.

Based on how these two things go, I will be talking with my doc about both an anti-body test (to rule out LADA) and doing an OGTT along with an insulin assay. The insulin assay results would be almost as good as the gene test in accuracy.

Wow. You've figured out a lot here! Let us know how it goes, eh?

I continue to share (possibly too much at times). I do so because it has been others sharing that has given me the bits that got me on the right path - not just with this, but with other areas in my life. My hope is I can help others. Although not common (somewhere between 1% and 10% of all diabetes), MODY is misdiagnosed as T1 or T2 more than half the time which can not only be frustrating for the person, but the treatment can actually cause more harm than good.

midwesterner85 wrote: »

cstehansen wrote: »

nvmomketo wrote: »

cstehansen wrote: »

midwesterner85 wrote: »

@cstehansen Regarding MODY, have you had gad and c-peptide tests? Typically MODY patients would have c-peptide test results resembling that of a type 1, and have gad results showing they do not have anti-bodies of a type 1. If your theory is correct, the c-peptide results would be less extreme than a T1, but would still show a reduced insulin release.

For MODY1 and MODY3, you are correct. However for MODY2, it is more of a set point issue where the body has that set point higher than normal. Insulin production and insulin sensitivity is good. I already knew I was insulin sensitive through several measures and my glucose and fructose metabolism was actually better than average.

MODY1 and MODY3 are very similar but are caused by different genes and are generally misdiagnosed as T1. MODY2 is more commonly misdiagnosed as T2 because C-peptides are not diminished. Part of why I blew this off early on was I didn't know there were different types and I did not fit the MODY1 or MODY3 model which was what I initially read about.

Below is a graph from one of the papers that shows how MODY2 compares to "normal" in terms of A1c by age. This lines up with someone like my dad who was diagnosed pre-diabetic around 1990 as a very fit special ops guy in the army but his A1c has only slightly gone up during that time. The only real "treatment" is diet to avoid the PP highs. He was 70-80% paleo before paleo was a thing so just avoiding all that pre-packaged crap kept him lower carb and certainly lower glycemic.



I am gradually getting carbs up to a higher level and then do my own version of a OGGT at home. If I have this, I should see a relatively normal curve, just a little higher and potentially a little slower downtrend in BG but not as high a typical T2 and returning to my normal pretty close to the same as a non-diabetic.

I am also going to get a two-pack of the home A1c tests and test my daughter and myself at the same time. Since mine has been very consistent for the last couple years now, it is more of an accuracy gauge. If my daughter (who is about to turn 13 and is far from overweight) has a mildly elevated A1c for her age (really anything above 5.2 at this point given her diet and other health markers), then that would be a good indication she has the gene as well. Since it is monogenetic, that means it is dominant and she has a 50-50 chance if I have it. This is actually one of the strategies used by the researchers on one of the studies where they found people with this is they tested all the kids in the family and used them as a proxy test. I wasn't smar enough to come up with that on my own.

I don't want to take her to the doctor to get it checked at this point because if it came back as pre-diabetic, that would be on her permanent health records and could mess her up down the line with health or life insurance. Given this gene has only been recently discovered, and that the medical advice changes so slowly, I don't want to give her that disadvantage.

Based on how these two things go, I will be talking with my doc about both an anti-body test (to rule out LADA) and doing an OGTT along with an insulin assay. The insulin assay results would be almost as good as the gene test in accuracy.

Wow. You've figured out a lot here! Let us know how it goes, eh?

I continue to share (possibly too much at times). I do so because it has been others sharing that has given me the bits that got me on the right path - not just with this, but with other areas in my life. My hope is I can help others. Although not common (somewhere between 1% and 10% of all diabetes), MODY is misdiagnosed as T1 or T2 more than half the time which can not only be frustrating for the person, but the treatment can actually cause more harm than good.

And then there is the Halle Berry case. She was misdiagnosed as type 1 and was a big advocate for type 1. That's great since she is a public figure and can bring a lot of exposure to the disease. She didn't handle things well when she realized she had been misdiagnosed and actually has MODY. Like some other MODY patients, she spontaneously started producing insulin again (which is not possible for true type 1's). Her public comments left the public with the misunderstanding that there was a way that type 1's could get off of insulin. Some of us type 1's, to this day, will hear about how we should be able to make changes and stop taking insulin because "Halle Berry did it."

Well said. I do my best to put context into my comments. I like to think - at least in terms of health and science - I am a bit smarter than Ms. Berry.

cstehansen wrote: »

Here is a well written article by Mark Sisson regarding carnivore diet. I am a big believer in eating real food. The vast majority of what I eat has no nutrition label, or if it does it is something like "sardines, extra virgin olive oil, salt." So I do follow a more paleo/primal way of LCHF. I think it is important to look at diet from the standpoint of how we were made to eat. I don't think we were made to eat frankenfoods. Mr. Sisson points out some potential pitfalls as well as some good tips for those who want to eat carnivore.

https://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-carnivore-diet-pros-cons-and-suggestions/?awt_l=GvdkX&awt_m=InCxucbAMhWvYa&utm_source=mda_newsletter&utm_campaign=mda_newsletter_052318&utm_medium=button1

That's actually a serious improvement in his openmindedness over a few years ago, when he was pretty staunchly even against keto, let alone carnivore.

I am not taking part in this, but I have been following it.

I decided today I would not eat any plant products and ate eggs, bacon, cheese and chicken. I had HWC in my first cup of coffee. My carb max is 20 a day, so it is not as if I am eating bowls of cereal most of the time.

I am T2D off all diabetes meds regulating things with a keto diet. My last A1C was 5.9 so an average of 120(ish) average glucose. This corresponds roughly to what I usually see - 110 before supper, 130 an hour after. Today these readings were 101 and 105.

kirkor wrote: »

That is a good blog post, but the best thing about it is that it linked me to the story about Jordan Peterson's daughter: http://foodmed.net/2018/05/mikhaila-peterson-poster-girl-carnivore/

Wow. She's been through a lot. Amazing!

nvmomketo wrote: »

2t9nty wrote: »

My morning reading was 101 - the lowest I have seen since going off meds.

Nice!

Your post prompted me to check my FBG this morning (haven't for over a month) and it was a 5.3 (96) which is a great number for me.

Not wishing to hijack the thread (mea culpa!), I had stopped checking in the morning. It was always 120(ish) and often the highest reading of the day. This gives me hope that my next A1C may be pretty good.