PROTEIN POWER!
Crisseyda
Posts: 532 Member
Has anyone else watched Dr. Ted Naiman's recent lecture on protein on Diet Doctor, "Too Much Protein is Better Than Too Little"? My mind is blown!
All living things eat to satisfy their species-specific protein target. If the food is lower in protein and higher in carb/fat, the organism will naturally eat more of it. (Take our current food supply, which has been massively diluted with pure energy in the form of refined carbs and vegetable oils).
The most surprising ideas to me were:
1. At the lower end of protein intake, carbs vs. fats don't really make a difference, the total energy intake will still be the same (very high).
(Caveat: at the absolute lowest protein intake of 5%, total energy was very low because the cost of weight gain is too high--this is the kind of diet where you eat like 30 bananas a day and still lose weight, and, of course, you are muscle-wasting, and you're bones are thinning).
2. At the higher end of protein intake, you start to see a difference between the effects of carb vs. fats (higher portion of carb will cause higher intake of total energy).
3. The higher the protein intake, the lower the total energy intake, and improvements seen on all fronts. High protein has no ill effects. High protein does not inhibit ketosis in the context of a low carb diet.
Could it really all be about protein, instead of carbs??? I think there is some powerful data here, but one important thing to note: they are talking about changes in calorie intake and not weight gain/loss. We all know equal calorie intake does NOT equate to equal weight gain/loss, but is dependent on the ratios of macro- and micro-nutrients.
Long story short, I'm back on MFP to track my protein intake to a target of 130 g per day (1 g per pound of ideal body weight, per Dr. Naiman's recommendation). He also says that the ideal human target (from ad libitum studies) is 2 g of protein per 1 g of fat (which is found in meat). I've already realized that many days, I am not eating enough protein. I feel like I've eaten SO much food in the last few days--yet, I've lost 3 lbs, and my abs look more defined.
I feel like THIS is the power that the carnivores have discovered: PROTEIN POWER. As I've been aiming to eat 130 g of protein per day, I really don't have any room or desire to eat anything other than meat. I'm so full and so satisfied.
All living things eat to satisfy their species-specific protein target. If the food is lower in protein and higher in carb/fat, the organism will naturally eat more of it. (Take our current food supply, which has been massively diluted with pure energy in the form of refined carbs and vegetable oils).
The most surprising ideas to me were:
1. At the lower end of protein intake, carbs vs. fats don't really make a difference, the total energy intake will still be the same (very high).
(Caveat: at the absolute lowest protein intake of 5%, total energy was very low because the cost of weight gain is too high--this is the kind of diet where you eat like 30 bananas a day and still lose weight, and, of course, you are muscle-wasting, and you're bones are thinning).
2. At the higher end of protein intake, you start to see a difference between the effects of carb vs. fats (higher portion of carb will cause higher intake of total energy).
3. The higher the protein intake, the lower the total energy intake, and improvements seen on all fronts. High protein has no ill effects. High protein does not inhibit ketosis in the context of a low carb diet.
Could it really all be about protein, instead of carbs??? I think there is some powerful data here, but one important thing to note: they are talking about changes in calorie intake and not weight gain/loss. We all know equal calorie intake does NOT equate to equal weight gain/loss, but is dependent on the ratios of macro- and micro-nutrients.
Long story short, I'm back on MFP to track my protein intake to a target of 130 g per day (1 g per pound of ideal body weight, per Dr. Naiman's recommendation). He also says that the ideal human target (from ad libitum studies) is 2 g of protein per 1 g of fat (which is found in meat). I've already realized that many days, I am not eating enough protein. I feel like I've eaten SO much food in the last few days--yet, I've lost 3 lbs, and my abs look more defined.
I feel like THIS is the power that the carnivores have discovered: PROTEIN POWER. As I've been aiming to eat 130 g of protein per day, I really don't have any room or desire to eat anything other than meat. I'm so full and so satisfied.
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This is probably the most debated aspect within the LCHF/Keto community because of the insulinogenic nature of some forms of protein. I feel like this forum group tends to lean on the PRO side of more protein as you're advocating but I personally believe that .5-.8grams/lb LBM is a good target. More then that only drains the wallet even if it didn't have the potential to interupt ketosis.0
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Eating more protein proved to make a huge difference to me.
I started out on keto following the “eat all the fats” and “not too much protein because it turns to cake” idea because that was the crowd I first found.
I lost 25 pounds pretty quick and I was a believer! Then I came across people debating the protein topic and those suggesting it did not in fact turn into glucose and was absolutely necessary made a compelling enough argument that I made the changes to increase protein and reduce fat to a ratio more like what you said Ted Naiman recommended.
I stopped losing weight immediately. Ive heard that same thing in groups all over from all kinds of people so they stop and go back to eating all the fat and restricting protein and they’re happily losing scale weight again.
Well... I have no regrets that I stopped losing weight because once you see what happened to my body composition even without consistent exercise it becomes obvious that I made the right decision and it makes you wonder what I actually lost to create 25 pounds of scale weight loss with so little fat loss. It’s pretty scary.
And every time I see someone say they stop losing weight when they eat more protein I cringe because I wonder if it’s just because they stop wasting muscle and losing bone density. I obviously don’t know for sure that’s what happened but I can’t imagine another explanation.
I went from about 50-70g protein and 100-150g fat to about 100-150g protein and 60-100g fat though I stopped tracking shortly after making the changes. I stopped adding fat to anything and only using minimal needed for cooking and stopped adding stuff to coffee and such.4 -
@Sunny_Bunny_ I wish I was organized and took pictures like that! Kids and work keep me going non-stop. I think I was under-eating protein because fasting has become so effortless, I'm so busy, there's almost nothing decent to eat outside of home-cooked food, and I figured one or two large meals per day was sufficient. I didn't realize how much I was diluting my protein intake filling up on extras like berries and cream. At this point, I'm sometimes having to force feed myself to get to 130g/day, but I still feel energetic and lean. I'll keep you posted!1
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I think it may be a combination of things. Protein is satiating to most people and higher carb can stimulate the appetite (and exacerbate some health issues). I follow the camp that says gluconeogenesis is demand driven, although sometimes a less healthy liver will make too much as seen in most T2Ds.
I do find that when I eat mainly meats, I can't eat as much. It eventually hits the point where eating becomes undesirable, or yuck. I don't hit that with carbs. If carbs are lower I am less hungry, but I can't really separate that from increased fat or protein. If carbs drop, something has to go up.
As it is, right now I am eating mostly carnivore. Eating even 20g of carbs makes me a bit hungrier than no plants at all. My protein is not much higher eating this way though so I think less carbs, or more fat, has something to do with it. I still struggle to get close to 100g of protein whether carnivore or no.
Benjamin Bikman (sp?) has a good recent talk on protein. I'll try to find it.2 -
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Wow, a picture says a thousand words. What a difference!!Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »
Eating more protein proved to make a huge difference to me.
... I have no regrets that I stopped losing weight because once you see what happened to my body composition even without consistent exercise it becomes obvious that I made the right decision and it makes you wonder what I actually lost to create 25 pounds of scale weight loss with so little fat loss. It’s pretty scary.
And every time I see someone say they stop losing weight when they eat more protein I cringe because I wonder if it’s just because they stop wasting muscle and losing bone density.2 -
Very interesting. I'm doing Keto but I'm definitely not in the "Super High Fat" camp, though I do try to make sure that my fat calories make up at least half of my total daily allowance because that is where I feel best. I am actively losing weight so I'm not routinely hitting the 1g protein per 1kg of lean body mass, but I do generally make sure that my fat gram consumption is about equal to my protein gram consumption. I don't personally believe that you necessarily lose lean muscle when following a keto diet, but do believe that you still need a certain amount of protein to actually build lean protein. I've lost 60lbs so far with another 80 to go and I'm definitely going to be taking lots of progress pics, I've been inspired by @Sunny_Bunny_2
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WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »Very interesting. I'm doing Keto but I'm definitely not in the "Super High Fat" camp, though I do try to make sure that my fat calories make up at least half of my total daily allowance because that is where I feel best. I am actively losing weight so I'm not routinely hitting the 1g protein per 1kg of lean body mass, but I do generally make sure that my fat gram consumption is about equal to my protein gram consumption. I don't personally believe that you necessarily lose lean muscle when following a keto diet, but do believe that you still need a certain amount of protein to actually build lean protein. I've lost 60lbs so far with another 80 to go and I'm definitely going to be taking lots of progress pics, I've been inspired by @Sunny_Bunny_
that sums it up for me too. I don't think keto causes extra lean mass loss compared to any other diet, beyond the first couple of days when your glycogen has fallen and is being replaced. I think keto is actually just as lean tissue sparing as a higher carb diet although the muscles may look a bit depleted at first with those water losses.
I'm looking forward to more research coming out in this area over the next few years.1 -
WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »I am actively losing weight so I'm not routinely hitting the 1g protein per 1kg of lean body mass, but I do generally make sure that my fat gram consumption is about equal to my protein gram consumption.
Hi Just to clarify, are you talking 1g per kg or per pound of body mass?
Reading through the posts, (@Sunny_Bunny_) - Sorry, i misquoted you there ;-)) suggests its 1g per pound?
Not being pick here, just curious.
Thanks
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WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »I am actively losing weight so I'm not routinely hitting the 1g protein per 1kg of lean body mass, but I do generally make sure that my fat gram consumption is about equal to my protein gram consumption.
Hi Just to clarify, are you talking 1g per kg or per pound of body mass?
Reading through the posts, @Sunny_Bunny_ suggests its 1g per pound?
Not being pick here, just curious.
Thanks
Not a typo, I meant 1g per kg of lean body mass. There is a lot of research out there to support this, 1g per pound would be an insane amount of protein for the average person and imho and that of many researchers, is just overkill.
So for me, let's say in an average day I eat 60g of fat, I try to also eat around 60g of protein, but because fat is more calorie dense, more than double that of protein, I'm still easily able to hit my macro goals of 60% fat and 30% protein leaving a bit left over for carbs give or take. My best guess is that my lean mass is approx. 54kg, so my example day, I'm hitting right on target, days that I eat higher fat, I'm falling short of that target.
For now, I'm losing weight and this formula is working well for me. Honestly, I think a lot of this is an n=1 experiment and figuring out what works best for you. I've just started a strength training routine and I'm curious to see what changes I'm able to make to my body composition with this formula while still losing weight.
ETA I just googled because I was going to share a link, but there were so many articles and discussions and what not, that I'm just going to recommend that you google and peruse those that you see fit. A lot of great information out there on the interwebs
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WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »Not a typo, I meant 1g per kg of lean body mass. There is a lot of research out there to support this, 1g per pound would be an insane amount of protein for the average person and imho and that of many researchers, is just overkill.
The 1gm / lb is typically lb of LBM(lean body mass) which is your weight minus your bodyfat, making it a lot less insane
I agree that it's more than needed for most...and aim for .8gm / lb LBM myself.
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@Sunny_Bunny_ Remind me as I can't remember. I know you eat mostly meat as veggies are toxic to you, but where are you in respect to dairy?0
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WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »Not a typo, I meant 1g per kg of lean body mass. There is a lot of research out there to support this, 1g per pound would be an insane amount of protein for the average person and imho and that of many researchers, is just overkill.
The 1gm / lb is typically lb of LBM(lean body mass) which is your weight minus your bodyfat, making it a lot less insane
I agree that it's more than needed for most...and aim for .8gm / lb LBM myself.
The recommendation of 1g per kg of body weight is also for "lean body mass" as I did state. Not being argumentative, just making sure you realized that that is what I said in the quoted text. There are studies for both, I just align myself with the ones that say to go by kg of body weight, not pounds 0 -
WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »Not a typo, I meant 1g per kg of lean body mass. There is a lot of research out there to support this, 1g per pound would be an insane amount of protein for the average person and imho and that of many researchers, is just overkill.
The 1gm / lb is typically lb of LBM(lean body mass) which is your weight minus your bodyfat, making it a lot less insane
I agree that it's more than needed for most...and aim for .8gm / lb LBM myself.
The recommendation of 1g per kg of body weight is also for "lean body mass" as I did state. Not being argumentative, just making sure you realized that that is what I said in the quoted text. There are studies for both, I just align myself with the ones that say to go by kg of body weight, not pounds
Objection, argumentative!
lol just kidding.
Sorry missed the inference, thanks for clarifying in a non argumentative way 0 -
@Sunny_Bunny_ Remind me as I can't remember. I know you eat mostly meat as veggies are toxic to you, but where are you in respect to dairy?
I tolerate dairy fine but I don’t eat a lot because it adds too much fat and calories for my current goal to lose more fat.
I’ve been pretty heavy handed with the half n half and cheese the last year and have buckled down more recently to really work on losing more fat. So it’s super limited for that reason right now.0 -
WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »Not a typo, I meant 1g per kg of lean body mass. There is a lot of research out there to support this, 1g per pound would be an insane amount of protein for the average person and imho and that of many researchers, is just overkill.
So for me, let's say in an average day I eat 60g of fat, I try to also eat around 60g of protein, but because fat is more calorie dense, more than double that of protein, I'm still easily able to hit my macro goals of 60% fat and 30% protein leaving a bit left over for carbs give or take. My best guess is that my lean mass is approx. 54kg, so my example day, I'm hitting right on target, days that I eat higher fat, I'm falling short of that target.
Wait a minute! Are you really suggesting that 60g fat and 60g protein is healthy? Heck, even with a generous 50 grams of protein, you're under 1,000 calories a day. It would be much healthier if you did eat 1g of protein for every gram of lean body mass. 120 grams of protein would be fantastic for your body, and hardly even close to "insane" by any standards. 120 grams of protein and 120 grams of fat would be a much healthier and more appropriate amount. A few carb calories, and you're around 1,600 calories a day. That's much better.
Of course you're losing weight eating like this. Starvation works. No one argues that. It's just not healthy.2 -
@nvmomketo Great lecture! Seems to be in line with an article a read a while ago, by Amy Berger http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2017/07/gluconeogenesis.html
I wasn't really concerned about protein turning into sugar, but I had no idea how independently powerful protein was on metabolism! I thought eating to satiety was good enough, but based on Ted Naiman and my macros tracking, it seems like I should be filling up on meat before (and if) I decide to eat anything else.0 -
Great lecture! Seems to be in line with an article a read a while ago, by Amy Berger http://www.tuitnutrition.com/2017/07/gluconeogenesis.html
I wasn't really concerned about protein turning into sugar, but I had no idea how independently powerful protein was on metabolism! I thought eating to satiety was good enough, but based on Ted Naiman and my macros tracking, it seems like I should be filling up on meat before (and if) I decide to eat anything else.
I've always loved her. She makes sense.
Part of the reason I eat mostly carnivore is in an effort to increase my protein. I don't enjoy a lot of lean meats so my protein tends to stay low - especially when I only eat two meals a day with a snack. I still struggle to hit 100 g.... Although many think a carnivore diet is automatically high in protein.0 -
WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »Not a typo, I meant 1g per kg of lean body mass. There is a lot of research out there to support this, 1g per pound would be an insane amount of protein for the average person and imho and that of many researchers, is just overkill.
So for me, let's say in an average day I eat 60g of fat, I try to also eat around 60g of protein, but because fat is more calorie dense, more than double that of protein, I'm still easily able to hit my macro goals of 60% fat and 30% protein leaving a bit left over for carbs give or take. My best guess is that my lean mass is approx. 54kg, so my example day, I'm hitting right on target, days that I eat higher fat, I'm falling short of that target.
Wait a minute! Are you really suggesting that 60g fat and 60g protein is healthy? Heck, even with a generous 50 grams of protein, you're under 1,000 calories a day. It would be much healthier if you did eat 1g of protein for every gram of lean body mass. 120 grams of protein would be fantastic for your body, and hardly even close to "insane" by any standards. 120 grams of protein and 120 grams of fat would be a much healthier and more appropriate amount. A few carb calories, and you're around 1,600 calories a day. That's much better.
Of course you're losing weight eating like this. Starvation works. No one argues that. It's just not healthy.
Calm down there cowboy. Those numbers were just a for instance, an example, never did I say that was my actual daily number, just that those SAMPLE numbers would fit my macros. I average 1200-1500 calories per day very rarely, going below that, and even if I do, it’s not on purpose. And because I know you are super concerned, my numbers for today are 89g fat, 72g protein, 44g carb. That puts me right at a smidge over 1200 which is a 600 calorie deficit from my BMR.
And in honestly, I don’t need dietary advice from some random so please kindly go pound sand.
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WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »Not a typo, I meant 1g per kg of lean body mass. There is a lot of research out there to support this, 1g per pound would be an insane amount of protein for the average person and imho and that of many researchers, is just overkill.
So for me, let's say in an average day I eat 60g of fat, I try to also eat around 60g of protein, but because fat is more calorie dense, more than double that of protein, I'm still easily able to hit my macro goals of 60% fat and 30% protein leaving a bit left over for carbs give or take. My best guess is that my lean mass is approx. 54kg, so my example day, I'm hitting right on target, days that I eat higher fat, I'm falling short of that target.
Wait a minute! Are you really suggesting that 60g fat and 60g protein is healthy? Heck, even with a generous 50 grams of protein, you're under 1,000 calories a day. It would be much healthier if you did eat 1g of protein for every gram of lean body mass. 120 grams of protein would be fantastic for your body, and hardly even close to "insane" by any standards. 120 grams of protein and 120 grams of fat would be a much healthier and more appropriate amount. A few carb calories, and you're around 1,600 calories a day. That's much better.
Of course you're losing weight eating like this. Starvation works. No one argues that. It's just not healthy.
Calm down there cowboy. Those numbers were just a for instance, an example, never did I say that was my actual daily number, just that those SAMPLE numbers would fit my macros. I average 1200-1500 calories per day very rarely, going below that, and even if I do, it’s not on purpose. And because I know you are super concerned, my numbers for today are 89g fat, 72g protein, 44g carb. That puts me right at a smidge over 1200 which is a 600 calorie deficit from my BMR.
And in honestly, I don’t need dietary advice from some random so please kindly go pound sand.
I don't know that a group mod is a random.
But we're not going force you to do anything. We just recommend a healthy amount of protein.
Based upon the numbers given in the example, that wasn't it.
And we don't want a keto newbie to read that and think it is. You DID use first person after all. So someone might misread that. I did but I didn't have time to say anything.
You are of course entitled to your opinion and entitled to choose your own macros.
But you aren't entitled to talk ugly to other members of the group. This isn't the main forum. We are respectful to one another here.
TIA for toning it down next time.
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baconslave wrote: »WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »Not a typo, I meant 1g per kg of lean body mass. There is a lot of research out there to support this, 1g per pound would be an insane amount of protein for the average person and imho and that of many researchers, is just overkill.
So for me, let's say in an average day I eat 60g of fat, I try to also eat around 60g of protein, but because fat is more calorie dense, more than double that of protein, I'm still easily able to hit my macro goals of 60% fat and 30% protein leaving a bit left over for carbs give or take. My best guess is that my lean mass is approx. 54kg, so my example day, I'm hitting right on target, days that I eat higher fat, I'm falling short of that target.
Wait a minute! Are you really suggesting that 60g fat and 60g protein is healthy? Heck, even with a generous 50 grams of protein, you're under 1,000 calories a day. It would be much healthier if you did eat 1g of protein for every gram of lean body mass. 120 grams of protein would be fantastic for your body, and hardly even close to "insane" by any standards. 120 grams of protein and 120 grams of fat would be a much healthier and more appropriate amount. A few carb calories, and you're around 1,600 calories a day. That's much better.
Of course you're losing weight eating like this. Starvation works. No one argues that. It's just not healthy.
Calm down there cowboy. Those numbers were just a for instance, an example, never did I say that was my actual daily number, just that those SAMPLE numbers would fit my macros. I average 1200-1500 calories per day very rarely, going below that, and even if I do, it’s not on purpose. And because I know you are super concerned, my numbers for today are 89g fat, 72g protein, 44g carb. That puts me right at a smidge over 1200 which is a 600 calorie deficit from my BMR.
And in honestly, I don’t need dietary advice from some random so please kindly go pound sand.
I don't know that a group mod is a random.
But we're not going force you to do anything. We just recommend a healthy amount of protein.
Based upon the numbers given in the example, that wasn't it.
And we don't want a keto newbie to read that and think it is. You DID use first person after all. So someone might misread that. I did but I didn't have time to say anything.
You are of course entitled to your opinion and entitled to choose your own macros.
But you aren't entitled to talk ugly to other members of the group. This isn't the main forum. We are respectful to one another here.
TIA for toning it down next time.
Pardon me for being defensive when I’m accused of starving myself.0 -
Nope. I quoted that on purpose, so you couldn't play those games. The examples you gave have calories well under 1,000. And, there was no indication or hint that those numbers were "for instance" numbers. If they were, you need to be much more careful about pulling numbers out of the air. Pick ones that don't promote sub-1200 calories/day diets. You said your macros were 30% protein and that your example day hit right over your goal of 54g. You even suggested there were days where you fall short of that 54 grams.
- 54 grams of protein at 30% of your calories? That's a 720 calorie day [(54 * 4) / 0.3].
- 60 grams of fat and protein? That's 780 calories, plus whatever carbs you allow.
- 60 grams of protein was your 30% calories number? That's an 800 calorie day [(60 * 4) / 0.3].
I would hope that most of the people who fall into the category of "some random" would know better than to think macros that low might be appropriate for them. Because I am not "some random," I do have an interest in promoting healthy dieting habits to the members here. Frankly, what you do to your own body is not my concern. What you promote, intentionally or unintentionally, is my concern.
Edit: The weirdest part is that all the ways you work the numbers, you get an approximately 800 calories/day input. If it was coincidence, it's a strange one. You could have used numbers from your diary, where you are eating 1200+ calories a day. Of course, that protein is higher than you promoted, but at least those work out to a healthier amount.5 -
“Let’s say” is another way of saying “for example”, at least where I live. I’m sorry that you misread my intent, but you are, for all intents and purposes, a random person to me. I’m not going to argue with you, you took it how you took it. I know what I meant and there was certainly a better way to approach this that didn’t include you accusing me of starving myself.
And yes, I have occasionally fallen short of 50g of protein. I follow a Keto diet and if I’m hitting 100g of fat on a given day (which has happened, especially when I used to eat dairy) then yes, to stay in my calorie goal my protein may fall short. It happens.
Lesson learned. Thanks. I will mind my P’s and Q’s moving forward. I apologize to the group for my ill informed post.0 -
WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »“Let’s say” is another way of saying “for example”, at least where I live. I’m sorry that you misread my intent, but you are, for all intents and purposes, a random person to me. I’m not going to argue with you, you took it how you took it. I know what I meant and there was certainly a better way to approach this that didn’t include you accusing me of starving myself.
And yes, I have occasionally fallen short of 50g of protein. I follow a Keto diet and if I’m hitting 100g of fat on a given day (which has happened, especially when I used to eat dairy) then yes, to stay in my calorie goal my protein may fall short. It happens.
Lesson learned. Thanks. I will mind my P’s and Q’s moving forward. I apologize to the group for my ill informed post.
I see that you joined the group back in March of 2016. So, I am going to take that as a compliment. I don't exactly want to go around telling people how to live their lives or what their participation in this group should look like. If I am "some random" to you, it means that I'm not stampeding around telling people how awesome and powerful I am [I'm not]. It also means that it's been a long time since we've had the 800 calorie-commandos around here. You probably weren't around for it. That makes sense, it seems like it has been years.
We had a period where it seemed like every 4th or 5th post was about very low calorie / moderate-high protein diets. Most of them aiming for 800 calories a day or less. Some of the hCG based people saw this as a natural retreat. We also had a lot of people with disordered eating habits, trying to use this group as their home because "carbs = bad" aligned with their feelings about "food = bad." Those were dark days, and we (the group leaders) spent a lot of time trying to encourage and promote healthier eating. We wanted people to stay at 1200 as a minimum. We encouraged people to take a long-term view of healthy eating and habits, and not use low-carb as a crash diet.
It makes me a little hyper-sensitive to macro-combinations that fall well under 1200 calories a day, as most of those proponents would disguise their calorie level by only using macro numbers. If you feel like I jumped down your throat, or jumped to conclusions prematurely, I apologize. My response had less to do with you, and more to do with promoting a reasonable minimum calorie goal. I'm pro-moderate protein (90g+), but respect those who keep it lower as long as they keep the calories reasonable. I did peek at your diary. You clearly aren't eating an 800 calorie/day diet.
Anyway, it's not about you. It's about those who are just starting and don't know what is reasonable.
BTW: Protein is very rarely used for energy. Usually, it's used for maintenance and repair. That means, protein calories don't count as much as they might seem. If you're under protein, but at your calorie limit, it's not going to hurt very much to try and hit that protein goal. The protein will likely not be used for energy in preference to fat.2 -
WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »That puts me right at a smidge over 1200 which is a 600 calorie deficit from my BMR.
You really don't want to be 600 under your BMR. Find your TDEE and take a deficit from that.2 -
WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »That puts me right at a smidge over 1200 which is a 600 calorie deficit from my BMR.
You really don't want to be 600 under your BMR. Find your TDEE and take a deficit from that.
I use my FitBit for calorie burn, so I base my day off of a 500-600 calorie deficit from my BMR and then my goal is to be at about 1000 calorie deficit from actual calories burned. I have over 80lbs to lose with a goal of 2lbs per week and track my calorie in vs calorie out both weekly and daily. It is an approach that works for me, but thanks.0 -
@FIT_Goat I appreciate you taking the time to respond to me and also explaining your reasoning to me. It is far from my intent to promote disordered eating. Quite the contrary. I am a Certified Nutritional Therapy Consultant, my job is to help people lose weight and to heal through food. If anything, this has taught me an important lesson about providing more specific examples understanding that most people don't have the same education in nutrition that I do, and I don't want to cause any confusion. Truce?5
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WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »WholeFoods4Lyfe wrote: »That puts me right at a smidge over 1200 which is a 600 calorie deficit from my BMR.
You really don't want to be 600 under your BMR. Find your TDEE and take a deficit from that.
I use my FitBit for calorie burn, so I base my day off of a 500-600 calorie deficit from my BMR and then my goal is to be at about 1000 calorie deficit from actual calories burned. I have over 80lbs to lose with a goal of 2lbs per week and track my calorie in vs calorie out both weekly and daily. It is an approach that works for me, but thanks.
@WholeFoods4Lyfe
Just point of clarification here - and this is more of clarifying the term you're using/intending to use - BMR is Basal Metabolic Rate.
This is the number of calories your body burns to maintain your existence on this planet, even if you're in a coma. Eating below this number indicates that you are not eating enough to sustain life. Yes, in a ketogenic diet, your body will burn stored body fat to provide a certain amount of pure energy - but my understanding is (and this small detail could be incorrect) that he body has a hard limit on how much it will burn on any given day - unless you kick into a "fasting/muscle sparing" phase of dietary intake, that again has limits -- and that pure energy does not contain nutrients. Even eating nutrient-dense/organic whole foods, eating that low of a calorie count - being a reduction from your BMR, I don't think it is possible to get the micronutrients needed to sustain whole health.
@Cadori referenced Total Daily Energy Expenditure - which includes the energy to get up, get dressed, work, workout, clean up, etc. This is where the deficit comes into play. Your body assumes you're going to eat to a minimum your BMR. If you want to only eat your BMR, and you do 500-1000 calories of workouts/activity in a day - you'll be at your deficit, and your body can safely burn the difference with putting excessive strain on the body.
The body is a miraculous machine - but it is set to have safety limits. While extreme action obviously can bypass those limits while the body fights to survive, I don't think I've ever heard any medical professional recommend someone eating below their BMR... Aside from anorexia and such, it's very difficult to force the body to override survival mechanisms to lose weight at a higher rate than the survival code at which a person is set within his/her own's DNA.1 -
Adding - I believe that the total number of nutrients we need for best whole health every single day are what comes from maxing out our BMR calories. Any needs beyond that change our nutrient need - and nutrient needs do vary from person to person, taking into account age, reproductive status, health conditions, weight, etc.
**** QUICK RESEARCH COMMENT/QUESTION -- Most deficits I keep seeing say BMR + Activity -- which is TDEE... That's where you subtract calories...****0
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z3fO5aTD6JU
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