What does "praying" actually do?
ninerbuff
Posts: 48,990 Member
Growing up catholic (Atheist now) have always had the terms heard : I'll pray for you, we'll pray for you, pray for a good recovery, etc.
Now if god doesn't interfere and destiny is already set, how does praying change anything? No amount of prayer is going to change god's "mind" about and event that's supposed to happen. Also for instance if a child is kidnapped but found, praise is made to god because they "prayed" for a good outcome, but when the outcome is bad then why do people say that they may not have prayed hard enough?
Apologetics will say that prayers are always "heard" but not always the answers you want. Lol, you could get that by just waiting out any scenario.
So let's hear from the religious and please make logical sense from this.
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Now if god doesn't interfere and destiny is already set, how does praying change anything? No amount of prayer is going to change god's "mind" about and event that's supposed to happen. Also for instance if a child is kidnapped but found, praise is made to god because they "prayed" for a good outcome, but when the outcome is bad then why do people say that they may not have prayed hard enough?
Apologetics will say that prayers are always "heard" but not always the answers you want. Lol, you could get that by just waiting out any scenario.
So let's hear from the religious and please make logical sense from this.
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I actually don't believe that God's plan is set in stone. A lot of bad things that happen to people are like God's tests to see if they lose their faith in him or keep truckin' on. My grandpa was a pastor, but before he committed his life to God and the church he was in the Navy, a truck driver, and had various other jobs until he decided to dedicate his life to God. I know you're probably thinking where is she going with this and why do I care about your grandpa, but there is a point to all of that information that you don't care about haha. In 1995 he was diagnosed with prostate cancer. They told him he had about six months to live, after a year later he was still living and the cancer was gone. I know he prayed, our family prayed, and the members of the church prayed. A few years later the cancer came back to a different part of his body. The same scenario happened again, and he survived. In 2007, nine years after he was told he was for sure going to die within those six months, the cancer came back again. This time they didn't put a time stamp on his life. We prayed and prayed, but ten months later the cancer spread to his blood and he had tumors up and down his spine, drinking morphine like it was water. June 2008 he passed away. It seemed like our praying didn't work and I became very discouraged, but then again I do believe that everyone has a number and when God calls your number it's time for you to go home. I still believe that the power of prayer is a powerful thing, in some way it very well could change God's mind on calling someone home or bring a kidnapped child back to their family. If you ever watch The 700 Club, they have some outrageous prayer stories; some I have to confess I don't believe because they just seem too extreme and unrealistic. Hopefully I proved some kind of point...
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I don't have time right now to go into the religious aspect, but I'm sure I can leave that to others here, in any case.
In my experience, if nothing else, prayer focuses the mind on what is truly desired, and ideally, why. Prayer is also often an expression of thanks and gratitude, rather than solely demands - a verbal or mindful recitation and appreciation of the reasons I have to be grateful for the good things in my life. A moment's prayer can also, for me personally, provide a moment's respite from the daily rush, or a moment of calm in a stressful situation. Whatever the religious implications, to my mind, all of those things are positive additions to my life. 0 -
I believe that God wants to have a relationship with us and that is formed by prayer. Prayer is simply communication with our God who wants us to love Him as He loves us. I also think that prayer also gives us strength, hope and courage in difficult times.0
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I believe that God wants to have a relationship with us and that is formed by prayer. Prayer is simply communication with our God who wants us to love Him as He loves us. I also think that prayer also gives us strength, hope and courage in difficult times.
Agreed.0 -
But who's to say that none of those events wouldn't have happened without prayer? If more would have prayed do you think that the outcome would have been different?I actually don't believe that God's plan is set in stone. A lot of bad things that happen to people are like God's tests to see if they lose their faith in him or keep truckin' on. My grandpa was a pastor, but before he committed his life to God and the church he was in the Navy, a truck driver, and had various other jobs until he decided to dedicate his life to God. I know you're probably thinking where is she going with this and why do I care about your grandpa, but there is a point to all of that information that you don't care about haha. In 1995 he was diagnosed with prostate cancer. They told him he had about six months to live, after a year later he was still living and the cancer was gone. I know he prayed, our family prayed, and the members of the church prayed. A few years later the cancer came back to a different part of his body. The same scenario happened again, and he survived. In 2007, nine years after he was told he was for sure going to die within those six months, the cancer came back again. This time they didn't put a time stamp on his life. We prayed and prayed, but ten months later the cancer spread to his blood and he had tumors up and down his spine, drinking morphine like it was water. June 2008 he passed away. It seemed like our praying didn't work and I became very discouraged, but then again I do believe that everyone has a number and when God calls your number it's time for you to go home. I still believe that the power of prayer is a powerful thing, in some way it very well could change God's mind on calling someone home or bring a kidnapped child back to their family. If you ever watch The 700 Club, they have some outrageous prayer stories; some I have to confess I don't believe because they just seem too extreme and unrealistic. Hopefully I proved some kind of point...
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Honestly, have you ever really "heard" god talk to you through prayer or is it just your own intuition that let's you to believe it? I was honestly a believer as a child, and NEVER felt or heard god no matter how much I tried. Priests and nuns said I was doing it wrong. That god will make himself appear if you were really willing for it to happen. Needless to say, it never happened.I believe that God wants to have a relationship with us and that is formed by prayer. Prayer is simply communication with our God who wants us to love Him as He loves us. I also think that prayer also gives us strength, hope and courage in difficult times.
As for strength and courage, I personally believe that has more to do with the person.
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I don't believe in God, but I have great respect for those that do and live by those beliefs.0
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Honestly, have you ever really "heard" god talk to you through prayer or is it just your own intuition that let's you to believe it? I was honestly a believer as a child, and NEVER felt or heard god no matter how much I tried. Priests and nuns said I was doing it wrong. That god will make himself appear if you were really willing for it to happen. Needless to say, it never happened.I believe that God wants to have a relationship with us and that is formed by prayer. Prayer is simply communication with our God who wants us to love Him as He loves us. I also think that prayer also gives us strength, hope and courage in difficult times.
As for strength and courage, I personally believe that has more to do with the person.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Just to say that I went through a very sceptical period in my teens, and do not believe in the sort of 'speaking in tongues' etc that occurs in many evangelical churches. I'm also very sceptical of a number of other claims made by those whose religious views are significantly more 'fundamentalist' than mine. I think we have to help ourselves, and pray for guidance and assistance in so doing, rather than relying on prayer alone. However, I do believe that God has spoken to me directly, with words, on two occasions. Neither time was I trying to be spoken to, it just happened. On both occasions, I was in deep distress, and emotional turmoil, and the peace and calmness that surrounded me was not the sort of thing that I believe could be created by a distressed mind. What I heard was simple, but equally, not something I would have come up with, or believed implicitly, had it come from within myself, without the accompanying sense of immense love and care. As for 'feeling' God, more often than not I sense His presence in the small things of my day-to-day life, rather than specifically in church or during prayer. To me, the beauty of a sunny day, or the astonishing, fragile strength and perfection of a new-born child are all manifestations of God's presence. Maybe you also feel these things, but call them by a different name - there have been many different names throughout history, and each is valid.0 -
But who's to say that none of those events wouldn't have happened without prayer? If more would have prayed do you think that the outcome would have been different?I actually don't believe that God's plan is set in stone. A lot of bad things that happen to people are like God's tests to see if they lose their faith in him or keep truckin' on. My grandpa was a pastor, but before he committed his life to God and the church he was in the Navy, a truck driver, and had various other jobs until he decided to dedicate his life to God. I know you're probably thinking where is she going with this and why do I care about your grandpa, but there is a point to all of that information that you don't care about haha. In 1995 he was diagnosed with prostate cancer. They told him he had about six months to live, after a year later he was still living and the cancer was gone. I know he prayed, our family prayed, and the members of the church prayed. A few years later the cancer came back to a different part of his body. The same scenario happened again, and he survived. In 2007, nine years after he was told he was for sure going to die within those six months, the cancer came back again. This time they didn't put a time stamp on his life. We prayed and prayed, but ten months later the cancer spread to his blood and he had tumors up and down his spine, drinking morphine like it was water. June 2008 he passed away. It seemed like our praying didn't work and I became very discouraged, but then again I do believe that everyone has a number and when God calls your number it's time for you to go home. I still believe that the power of prayer is a powerful thing, in some way it very well could change God's mind on calling someone home or bring a kidnapped child back to their family. If you ever watch The 700 Club, they have some outrageous prayer stories; some I have to confess I don't believe because they just seem too extreme and unrealistic. Hopefully I proved some kind of point...
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Honestly I think the last time he got cancer God was just ready to have him come home. And I really don't think he would have been a cancer survivor if it wasn't for prayer, mainly because of how bad the cancer was.0 -
I am an atheist but prayer and meditation have benefits to the person who is doing the praying or meditating.0
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Delays dinner everytime I go to my friends house.0
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Scientists are starting to do studies about the power of prayer. The Intention Experiment is an interesting book about prayer studies. Basically it says that prayer can affect health outcomes not just for people but for plants too - but that there needs to be a ton more research done. And apparently prayer can also change your brainwave frequencies somehow - like the monks who meditate a lot. Prayer also helps you be calmer because you are calming your inner noise. Doesn't matter to whom you pray. Just MHO.0
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I pray for God's Will to be done, even if i dopn't like it. Why pray? Well, prayer is a conversation with the Lord, ancd when you love someone you want to get to know them and the only way to do that well enough is through some form of communication. God is not a vending machine, that is a shallow way to look at Him and at the moment you don't get what you want then you have a tmper tantrum like a kid and ignore Him (the general "you") as happens for many. To know God is to pray, read Divinely inspired scripture, to study the lives of those who are in heaven, and to be still in your mind and just listen.
Personally, there are times where I take God for granted, but I still thank Him for the good and bad and the simple (like indoor plumbing...I always give Him a big thank you for that). I also thank Him for just being God and for loving me, and everyone else, into existence.0 -
no amount of prayer has ever regrown a limb for an amputee.....discuss.0
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Have you heard of a "God"incidence? It's where something is way too deep to be just a coincidence. Those are ways in which God talks to us. I have also had God touch my soul to take action (as others say, heard His voice). This didn't happen until my twenties and I had been a Catholic my whole life, but again, I had to be open to listening. I'm sure God attempted to speak to me before that, I wasn't listening, I'm sure. One has to be willing to accept His grace in their lives.
Honestly, have you ever really "heard" god talk to you through prayer or is it just your own intuition that let's you to believe it? I was honestly a believer as a child, and NEVER felt or heard god no matter how much I tried. Priests and nuns said I was doing it wrong. That god will make himself appear if you were really willing for it to happen. Needless to say, it never happened.I believe that God wants to have a relationship with us and that is formed by prayer. Prayer is simply communication with our God who wants us to love Him as He loves us. I also think that prayer also gives us strength, hope and courage in difficult times.
As for strength and courage, I personally believe that has more to do with the person.
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I'm sorry that the sisters and priests told you that you were doing it wrong. Truly I am. They too are human and some aren't good People persons. We would love for you to return. Please check out this site to help guide you toward a local parish: http://www.catholicscomehome.org/ Just don't forget, the cross, though it seems heavy (especially the self created ones) is easier to carry with help from God, the saints, and those around you. I wish you well.0 -
Delays dinner everytime I go to my friends house.
Ya, but you get to watch and see who is pretending and who is really praying lol0 -
As Jesus said, "Then Abraham said, ‘If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone should rise from the dead.’” There are plenty of documented experiences the science could not explain, you can look it up yourself. If that doesn't satisfy your need of proof, then I don't know what will.no amount of prayer has ever regrown a limb for an amputee.....discuss.0 -
Honestly, have you ever really "heard" god talk to you through prayer or is it just your own intuition that let's you to believe it? I was honestly a believer as a child, and NEVER felt or heard god no matter how much I tried. Priests and nuns said I was doing it wrong. That god will make himself appear if you were really willing for it to happen. Needless to say, it never happened.I believe that God wants to have a relationship with us and that is formed by prayer. Prayer is simply communication with our God who wants us to love Him as He loves us. I also think that prayer also gives us strength, hope and courage in difficult times.
As for strength and courage, I personally believe that has more to do with the person.
A.C.E. Certified Personal Trainer
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Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Well, that's where faith comes in. You can chose to believe that the universe is here simply due to some coincidence or you can chose to believe that God created it. If you chose to believe that God created it, then you might wonder why He created it. And according to everything that I believe, He created it because He IS love and He loves us and all creation. I think that prayer is a way of saying "Thank you" to God for creating us and this beautiful world in which we live.
As far as hearing God' voice, I think that sometimes it's just seems too coincidental that someone comes to me or some thought comes to me that answers my prayer question or struggle. You may say it's coincidence but I've had this happen to me too many times to call it coincidence.
Trust me, I have doubts. I really do. I struggle with doubt re my faith a lot. Honestly, I think that when this happens, it's God calling me back to Him. And by "calling me back" I mean to keep trying to search and learn about Him so that my faith is strengthened and not weakened by my lack of effort and/or loss of contact with God.0 -
If you talk to G-d, you're spiritual. If G-d talks back, you are either a prophet or a schizophrenic.
Discuss,,, 0 -
So, when it comes to God it can only be two extremes? Nothing in life has only two extreme options. So until you rephrase the question to reflect reality and not just extremes I will assume you are not serious.If you talk to G-d, you're spiritual. If G-d talks back, you are either a prophet or a schizophrenic.
Discuss,,,0 -
So, when it comes to God it can only be two extremes? Nothing in life has only two extreme options. So until you rephrase the question to reflect reality and not just extremes I will assume you are not serious.If you talk to G-d, you're spiritual. If G-d talks back, you are either a prophet or a schizophrenic.
Discuss,,,
Don't be ridiculous. You're either pegnant, or you're not. Very polarized. You're dead, or alive. Again, extremely black/white. Tons of things are very solidly categorized as either/or.0 -
As Jesus said, "Then Abraham said, ‘If they will not listen to Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded if someone should rise from the dead.’” There are plenty of documented experiences the science could not explain, you can look it up yourself. If that doesn't satisfy your need of proof, then I don't know what will.no amount of prayer has ever regrown a limb for an amputee.....discuss.
So why not re-grow a limb? Since apparently God will change his mind about your life/death if it's cancer you are suffering from, but he won't regrow a limb for.....any amputee ever. Because their faith shouldn't be rewarded with clear, visual evidence, but the cancer sufferer's faith should be?
The "ailments" that have been "cured" by prayer tend to be those which are hard to diagnose (or prove), and which also sometimes just go away anyway. My Grandma survived thirty more years and counting after she was told she was going to die of ovarian cancer......and she is a Buddhist. Cancer does dometimes just go away on it's own. We are FAR from understanding how cancer works, when and why it comes, why it leaves, etc.
This is why I like the amputee argument. As far as we know, it's medically impossible for a severed limb to regrow. If prayer truly does work to overcome medical problems, then it ought to work sometimes even when the medical problem is seemingly impossible to overcome: let's see Superman get up out of the wheelchair, let's see an amputee regrow a limb. Let's see a burn scar vanish and leave behind unmarked skin. Let's see a blind person regain their sight. Then I'm going to think prayer does something.
Until then, imho, it's just a form of meditation, or self-soothing. If you like it, go for it. But I don't believe there are any "magical" properties to prayer.0 -
You are correct about this, so I will go and sit in my crazy prophetic corner because I have heard God.
So, when it comes to God it can only be two extremes? Nothing in life has only two extreme options. So until you rephrase the question to reflect reality and not just extremes I will assume you are not serious.If you talk to G-d, you're spiritual. If G-d talks back, you are either a prophet or a schizophrenic.
Discuss,,,
Don't be ridiculous. You're either pegnant, or you're not. Very polarized. You're dead, or alive. Again, extremely black/white. Tons of things are very solidly categorized as either/or.0 -
no amount of prayer has ever regrown a limb for an amputee.....discuss.
It's amazing that God can heal some cancers, some times, for some people, but amputations, AIDS, Parkinsons and a myriad of other disease/injurys he never seems to be around.0 -
You are correct about this, so I will go and sit in my crazy prophetic corner because I have heard God.
So, when it comes to God it can only be two extremes? Nothing in life has only two extreme options. So until you rephrase the question to reflect reality and not just extremes I will assume you are not serious.If you talk to G-d, you're spiritual. If G-d talks back, you are either a prophet or a schizophrenic.
Discuss,,,
Don't be ridiculous. You're either pegnant, or you're not. Very polarized. You're dead, or alive. Again, extremely black/white. Tons of things are very solidly categorized as either/or.
Me too, but I was really suprised when he sounded like Bobcat Goldwait.0 -
I’m somewhat confused by this whole conversation. I've hesitated in replying because the original post seemed to want to ridicule prayer, and not really want a serious answer. However, since others have responded and may be following, I've decided to add my two cents.
I do not think of prayer as some kind of “magic” act whereby one gets his wishes fulfilled. To say that prayer either grows missing limbs or “does nothing” is a false dichotomy. Miraculous signs have a limited function in the Bible. Their primary purpose is to authenticate a special moment of divine revelation in history. For this reason, we see a “burst” of miracles around the two primary periods of divine revelation in the Bible (Exodus from Egypt and the Life of Jesus). Since God can do as he pleases, it is also possible that God will do miraculous things at other times. These are, by definition, rare, however. If obvious miracles happened all the time we would eventually conclude that there are “physical laws” that produce such effects. For instance, if every time someone raised a staff over a body of water and the waters parted, we would conclude that there is some physical law that is the cause. Since miracles are relatively rare and have specific purposes, we cannot judge the value of prayer based on the perceived miraculous effects.
I would suggest that prayer, if we want to take this whole thing seriously, is at root communication with and communion with God. The value of this is somewhat similar to the value of spending time with those we love. I don’t judge time spent with a friend or loved one based on whether I get some request I want answered but primarily in terms of the strengthening and enjoyment of the relationship that we share. Furthermore, we should not think of God as a cosmic Santa Claus who gives us whatever we ask. Prayer is more a process of conforming my mind to God’s rather than the other way around.
There may in fact be documented cases of people without bodily limbs “growing” them subsequent to prayer. The Bible certainly records miracles of Jesus, for instance, healing a man with a “withered limb.” My guess is that those who do not want to believe will reject such cases even if there is significant eyewitness testimony. As David Hume argued, even if I saw a miracle with my own eyes, I should not accept it because it always more probable that a miracle didn’t happen than that it did. The issue of miracles, then, is first a more basic philosophical question. Are miracles even possible? An atheist would say no and therefore any “evidence” brought forth is going to be explained away. You can always argue that witnesses are liars.0 -
To the OP, if you no longer believe in God, and therefore probably not the Bible either, then I'm not sure anyone can answer your question to your satisfaction. It would be silly to pray to and expect an answer from someone you don't believe exists.
Which brings up a question for you...What would God have to do to prove to you that he exists? What prayer would he answer for you that would make you never doubt again? The reason I ask those questions is that in the Bible witnessed miracles and amazing things but still didn't believe. I think for some people, belief would be easy as long as God is at their beck and call, playing cosmic santa and granting their every request when and how they want it answered. The real test of faith comes when God is silent because we tend to put him in the same human box we are in and therefore, like another human, assume his silence or his saying no means he is ignoring us or isn't able to do something.
Not sure if that comes close to answering your question. Without belief in the first place, I'm sure nothing about faith makes sense.0 -
If I sat in a room in front of an amputee, was able to examine him myself, then watched as people prayed for limbs to grow back and RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY EYES LIVE they did, I would have to concede that there was something bigger than science for it to happen. I would have to believe a god existed because there would be NO ANSWER unless science was able to replicate it the same way.I’m somewhat confused by this whole conversation. I've hesitated in replying because the original post seemed to want to ridicule prayer, and not really want a serious answer. However, since others have responded and may be following, I've decided to add my two cents.
I do not think of prayer as some kind of “magic” act whereby one gets his wishes fulfilled. To say that prayer either grows missing limbs or “does nothing” is a false dichotomy. Miraculous signs have a limited function in the Bible. Their primary purpose is to authenticate a special moment of divine revelation in history. For this reason, we see a “burst” of miracles around the two primary periods of divine revelation in the Bible (Exodus from Egypt and the Life of Jesus). Since God can do as he pleases, it is also possible that God will do miraculous things at other times. These are, by definition, rare, however. If obvious miracles happened all the time we would eventually conclude that there are “physical laws” that produce such effects. For instance, if every time someone raised a staff over a body of water and the waters parted, we would conclude that there is some physical law that is the cause. Since miracles are relatively rare and have specific purposes, we cannot judge the value of prayer based on the perceived miraculous effects.
I would suggest that prayer, if we want to take this whole thing seriously, is at root communication with and communion with God. The value of this is somewhat similar to the value of spending time with those we love. I don’t judge time spent with a friend or loved one based on whether I get some request I want answered but primarily in terms of the strengthening and enjoyment of the relationship that we share. Furthermore, we should not think of God as a cosmic Santa Claus who gives us whatever we ask. Prayer is more a process of conforming my mind to God’s rather than the other way around.
There may in fact be documented cases of people without bodily limbs “growing” them subsequent to prayer. The Bible certainly records miracles of Jesus, for instance, healing a man with a “withered limb.” My guess is that those who do not want to believe will reject such cases even if there is significant eyewitness testimony. As David Hume argued, even if I saw a miracle with my own eyes, I should not accept it because it always more probable that a miracle didn’t happen than that it did. The issue of miracles, then, is first a more basic philosophical question. Are miracles even possible? An atheist would say no and therefore any “evidence” brought forth is going to be explained away. You can always argue that witnesses are liars.
As for what you said about god not being a cosmic Santa Claus, why is it when I went to church that we were asked to pray for mercy, pray for other who are sick (so they can recover by god's assistance), have saints pray for us, have Mary pray for us, etc. Isn't that asking god to be the cosmic Santa Claus you refer to?
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So, when it comes to God it can only be two extremes? Nothing in life has only two extreme options. So until you rephrase the question to reflect reality and not just extremes I will assume you are not serious.If you talk to G-d, you're spiritual. If G-d talks back, you are either a prophet or a schizophrenic.
Discuss,,,
Don't be ridiculous. You're either pegnant, or you're not. Very polarized. You're dead, or alive. Again, extremely black/white. Tons of things are very solidly categorized as either/or.
Physical, tangible things, such as pregnancy or death, can have polarized options, certainly, but we're not really talking about something that is physical or tangible here. Intangible things are rarely black-and-white.0 -
No it's been "said" that miracles and amazing things happened. They weren't "confirmed" by peer review. There's a difference. I would bet dollars to donuts that if DNA testing was available back then, that Joseph would be confirmed as jesus father. And if you don't think magicians and illusionists or slight of hand didn't exist back then, then I would say you're being pretty naive.To the OP, if you no longer believe in God, and therefore probably not the Bible either, then I'm not sure anyone can answer your question to your satisfaction. It would be silly to pray to and expect an answer from someone you don't believe exists.
Which brings up a question for you...what would God have to do that would prove to you that he exists? What prayer could he answer for you that would make you never doubt again? The reason I ask those questions is that in the Bible, people saw miracles and amazing things happen and still didn't believe. I think for some people, belief would be easy as long as God played cosmic santa and granted their every request. The real test of faith comes when God seems silent.
Honestly think about it. With all the medical technology we have now, what is the absolute longest you think a human can live? 100-130 years? It's very evident that without medical intervention that even just 1000 years ago humans perished a younger ages. So really would it be logical to believe that someone like moses or noah lived 500-900 years old? Really? That's why you CAN'T take a lot of the bible seriously. Much of what humans used to think (that certain events like earthquakes were from god being angry) have been explained scientifically. Point is that stories handed down orally (before the bible was written) had lots of chances to be exaggerated or misinterpreted from point of view.
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