I am a highly educated, professional, happily married, mother of 2 who pays taxes, contributes to society, gives to charity, and helps others. I have wonderful parents and do not need to be scolded by someone on the internet who wants to run people's lives from conception to death while micromanaging them to the point of telling them what they can and cannot find amusing.

You forgot about the part where you tell us how many years you and your husband were married before you had children. How much money you make. How big your house is and how you bought it before marriage and kids. How you are an important business woman who works from home and takes care of her children at the same time. Oh, and the luxury car you drive. I mean, you've mentioned all that numerous times in other threads, so you could have just thrown it in here, too.

I have never said how much money we make or even given a range, I've never said how big our house is, and I drive a 2000 Windstar which I doubt anyone would call a "luxury car" even if it weren't 12 years old. (Uh oh, now you're going to mention that in your future harping rants aren't you? c'est la vie)

You are quite the petulant child. Perhaps you can regale us again with stories of how you teach your kids about other religions, work at a Catholic school, volunteer at crisis centers, pray outside clinics, etc. Or better yet - don't.

I don't give a crap what you do for a living, how much money you make, what level of education you have achieved. Newsflash: That means nothing to me. The fact that you can make jokes about suicide really shows a lot about your character. Yes, even on the internet, people can tell character.

Ditto. As for being able to tell character - yes, we most definitely can and yours isn't very Christ like.

Dear Kettle,
You are black.
Sincerely,
Pot

Oh my gawd, I almost spit my jello out!

Why am I not surprised that you would find that funny? Sorry, but jokes about suicide are not funny.

Newsflash - you are not the joke police nor are you the authority on what is funny and what isn't. The fact that you don't find something funny does not mean that everyone has to agree with you. As for the "Who do you think you are?" bit I'm a grown adult who is quite capable of determining what I can and cannot do with my body be it abortion or, should I become terminally ill, assisted suicide. I am quite capable of determining what I find mildly amusing or LOL funny. I am a highly educated, professional, happily married, mother of 2 who pays taxes, contributes to society, gives to charity, and helps others. I have wonderful parents and do not need to be scolded by someone on the internet who wants to run people's lives from conception to death while micromanaging them to the point of telling them what they can and cannot find amusing.

Patti, I am not sure why you would taken offense to her second comment in the first place. If you are not one of the people that she was refering to.

Secondly, while I love debating with people, this is an internet debate board, this is not serious debate. So if you are going to get all huffy about every joke I crack, or get pissed if I laugh at someone elses joke, you might as well save the lecture or scolding because I am not interested either. I have all the things that Bahet does, including the luxery car.

I would support it in the case of the terminally ill. I watched my grandmother suffer for months with terminal cancer as it sucked the life out of her and made her miserable for the last 6 months of her life. As much as I cherish that time with her, it would have been better for her to have the choice if she wished to end it before the pain started. I would have supported her choice either way.

If someone chooses to end their life early after they have made the rational choice to do so (in the case of the terminally ill), they should have access to medication that would make it as painless as possible also.

For others suffering from depression or other mental health issues, absolutely not, but we need a much better support network for people who are suffering and are suicidal than we do now.

Agreed. I think not all life is worth living. If I were terminally ill and in constant, untreatable pain, someone else's irrational need to keep me alive at all costs would not only be offensive, but almost criminal in itself. Obviously the term "suicide" encompasses many contexts and as a society we shouldn't treat it with absolutes.

Patti, I am not sure why you would taken offense to her second comment in the first place. If you are not one of the people that she was refering to.

But it did refer to me. She said,

Anyone who thinks it shouldn't be allowed should just pretend they are a poor person with no insurance. Then they might not care so much that they die.

This refers to me because I don't think it should be allowed.

Secondly, while I love debating with people, this is an internet debate board, this is not serious debate

This is not the chit-chat-fun and games forum. These are debates on serious issues.

I have all the things that Bahet does, including the luxery car.

I couldn't care less what "things" y'all have or what cars you drive. That doesn't add to credibility or character. That was my point.

And here I thought you cared...

I still don't see how her comment was directed towards you. It had the word *Might* which implies multiple people may or may not have that view. If you do not take that position, then you have zero reason to take it personal.


BTW #7 on the debate forum guidlines states "7. Have fun and post a lot! Debate forums are always the most fun when there are a variety of topics being posted and the forum is active." Fun being the opportune word.

Should suicide/assisting in suicide be illegal? Oregon has passed a “Dignity of Death Act” in which a doctor is permitted to prescribe a lethal dose of medication to terminally ill patients who request it. And I’m sure we all remember Kevorkian who assisted many elderly in committing suicide. He did jail time for this, should he have?

What about for people who just “want to die?” Should we spend tax dollars trying to prevent them from jumping off buildings or just let them jump? Should a doctor or drug dealer be charged with murder for assisting in a suicide when the only rational was that the person didn’t want to live anymore?

Do we have a right to death?

I don't think it should be illegal completely, but I do feel that there needs to be some regulation in it. I haven't looked up the whole Oregon thing in quite some time, but last time I read it, I pretty much agreed with all of it, if I remember right.

To be honest, I know who Kevorkian is, but I don't know enough about him to determine if he was as psycho as people make him out to be. So, I can't answer to that one.

As for my stance on the bigger picture, I agree with Brett's initial post.

My body belongs to me and no one else. If I want to kill myself, then that's my business. If I wake up tomorrow and decide that I no longer want to live, then that's my decision. And if when I'm very old and become terminally ill and decide that life is no longer living and I want to die, then that's my business, as well, no one else's. If a doctor (or anyone, for that matter) decides that they'd like to help me in that endeavor, then I'd welcome their help. However, I do understand that doctors and nurses overall, however, have a duty to preserve life. If I botch up my suicide and don't succeed, then I understand completely that they'd want to save my life. There's a lot in the bigger picture. It's a personal decision, though. Our bodies are the only physically, tangible things we have control over. Nothing else. If we're not even allowed full control over that, there's something seriously wrong.

I absolutely believe that people have the right to terminate their own lives at any point they please. I don't really see life as anything special or sacred, so if a person is feeling so much pain, physically or emotionally, that death is the preferable alternative, then it is absolutely not my place to stop them.

For 3/4 years at college, I was an RA, and I counseled and found help for a lot of suicidal people. For many of the students in my care, counseling/therapy/etc. did "help" them, but I can't pretend to know what is best for anyone but myself.

What people don't seem to be taking into consideration is that often, dehabilitating depression that leads to people thinking of suicide is brought on by a chemical imbalance in the brain. Mental illness issues are still taboo in this nation and people are often too ashamed to get help. I see no difference in the brain than I do with any other organ. So if a person is sick in the head, we have to ask if they are competent enough to choose death with no one in our society trying to stop them. Often, with proper medication and therapy, these people cannot believe they were ever suicidal. So, in my mind, if we are going to let some one who is suffering from a chemical imbalance of the mind kill themselves, it's equivalent of not trying to revive a person who just had a heart attack. They are both organs, should we let them die?

But obviously, I am not talking about the terminally ill who should be able to decide when they have had enough. Besides, who cares if suicide is illegal or legal. If I kill myself tonight, it's not as if I can get busted for it. And even if the suicide attempt fails, are we going to imprison the terminally ill and mentally impaired? We have gotten law crazy in this country.

I think that there needs to be very specific criteria for a doctor to assist in a patient's death. I think that people who are terminally ill and who have a very low quality of life should be allowed to make the decision to end their own life. In the event that they are no longer able to make that decision it should be left to their substitute decision maker.

We've all hear the term "pull the plug." In an ICU situation, where a patient is mechanically ventilated and their body is incapable of supporting life without multiple medical interventions, families often make the decision to turn of the ventilator and allow nature to take its course. When you extubate a patient who has been medically supported for several days to weeks, death often happens quite quickly.

To me, it is a very fie line between the situation I presented above and assisted suicide for terminally ill patients. Again, to assist someone with suicide, I think there need to be many criteria taken into consideration: is the patient of sound mind to make this decision? Do they fully understand the implications of the decision? Have they been evaluated by two medical professionals? (I think it's important to have to doctors make the call independently of one another as with a brain death declaration). What is their current quality of life? What is their projected quality of life? What is the typical course of the disease they have? Is their family supportive?

As with any other controversial medical intervention, there needs to be a system design that allows patient autonomy with an informed consent. If they sign the consent, proceed as with any other medical intervention.

As an aside, we as a society are so obsessed with keeping people alive at any cost. We seem to have lost sight of the fact that death is a natural part of life. We aren't stopping to consider the well being of the patient.

OK, on a serious note, I think assisted suicide for a terminally ill person is an absolute right. It's none of the government's damn business.

what about those that aren't terminally ill, they just want to be done with it. Is that OK? If a doctor perscribes lethal doses of a drug they know will kill the patient should they be persocuted?

It's a tricky one, but almost any medication can be lethal if taken in sufficient quantities. If you start prosecuting doctors who prescribe medication that is taken with suicidal intent, you'd end up prosecuting a lot of doctors whose prescriptions were not made with that in mind. It's rather different if a doctor deliberately administers a lethal dose - without the patient's informed consent, that's murder - but with informed consent, that's when it gets sticky. To my mind, if informed, of-sound-mind consent is obtained and verified, perhaps by another clinician and also by a psychiatric specialist or two, and the patient requests it, then no, the doctor should not be prosecuted. There have to be checks, of course, and the 'of-sound-mind' bit is crucial, but I do essentially support the right to self-determination. The Swiss model seems to work.