Vegan is disordered eating?
aldousmom
Posts: 382 Member
An acquaintance is a substance abuse therapist (psychologist) and she told me that I had an eating disorder because eliminating and entire food group is disordered eating. Is this a common belief among mental health professionals? If so, a lot of us are CRAaaaa-zzzzzy.
My own opinion is that eating things you know cause disease is pretty disordered, but my education was not focused on mental health issues. I've only just read a few books on my own.
Has anyone else encountered this opinion? I've heard variations such as "vegan is too extreme...those extreme diets are unhealthy" etc and other similar things from the "I'm going to keep eating what i've been eating for 30 years and continue to complain about why i'm overweight and my health is poor" crowd, but I generally ignore them. The whole "eating disorder" accusation is new to me!
FTR, I don't have an eating disorder, I weigh 150 lbs, eat 1500 cal a day, run 20-25 miles per week...there's nothing wrong with me. I don't vomit or starve or do anything strange (other than not eat animal products...lol)
My own opinion is that eating things you know cause disease is pretty disordered, but my education was not focused on mental health issues. I've only just read a few books on my own.
Has anyone else encountered this opinion? I've heard variations such as "vegan is too extreme...those extreme diets are unhealthy" etc and other similar things from the "I'm going to keep eating what i've been eating for 30 years and continue to complain about why i'm overweight and my health is poor" crowd, but I generally ignore them. The whole "eating disorder" accusation is new to me!
FTR, I don't have an eating disorder, I weigh 150 lbs, eat 1500 cal a day, run 20-25 miles per week...there's nothing wrong with me. I don't vomit or starve or do anything strange (other than not eat animal products...lol)
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Sounds like a new tactic to resist considering the benefits of veganism to me . . .0
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Its ignorance. Plain and simple. Dont be afraid to challenge people like that. Ask them if they eliminate cat or dog, which in some cultures are food. If so Shes disordered. Some cultures even eat their own poop. Does that mean Im disordered? Of course they will say its a disorder to do those things too. They spend too much time trying to classify based on ONLY their cultural point of reference. They come from a meat eating culture therefore "everyone not like me is wrong".
Theres a whole series of studies on cultural frame of reference bias, that you should recomend she go and study. Being ignorant of different cultures does not make the cultre a qualifier for disorder classification.
Just cause shes a degreed Psych doesnt make her more intelligent or right. Challenge her assertions and supply her with evidence contrary to her misguided bias..0 -
Sounds like a new tactic to resist considering the benefits of veganism to me . . .
^^Succinct and so true. It's so easy to hide behind the cloak of being a 'mental health professional.' That person needs to dig deeper to understand this subject better.0 -
I work in Mental Health and I'm not aware of any substantial thoughts in that direction. But like in every field, every one has their own opinion and they difer from professional to professional.0
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I'd hv to ask then, is the entire Seventh Day Adventist Church eating disordrred? Seems unlikely. Some are vegetarian, some are vegan--and I know there are yogis who maintain a similar practice. I also love to ask if the questioner is chubby. Some folks get super defensive, not cuz they like their bacon on their burgers, but cuz they think vegan means "easy thin", and they feel like we've cheated and done it "the easy way". Missing the point entirely about choosing non-violence for our dinner.0
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I'd hv to ask then, is the entire Seventh Day Adventist Church eating disordrred? Seems unlikely. Some are vegetarian, some are vegan--and I know there are yogis who maintain a similar practice. I also love to ask if the questioner is chubby. Some folks get super defensive, not cuz they like their bacon on their burgers, but cuz they think vegan means "easy thin", and they feel like we've cheated and done it "the easy way". Missing the point entirely about choosing non-violence for our dinner.
She's totally overweight. She has several auto-immune disorders (chronic fatigue and couple others), she's got type 1 diabetes, and is just out of the hospital for a stay for heart failure. I'm pretty sure she's just jealous, but I was also curious to whether veganism as an eating disorder was something bantered about those in the mental health field. I mean, it's not in the DSM, but I wondered if this was one of those things professionals were currently discussing as a legitimate problem. I do know that sometimes people with eating disorders will claim "vegan" as their reason for not eating what other's are eating but that doesn't apply to me in the least. I'm certainly not one who will miss a meal! LOL!
The thing is she knows all the ups and downs of my health and fitness pretty well, and it seems looney that she would think it was easy for me. Oh, well. It takes all kinds.0 -
That is not comparable. Cats and dogs are taboo, whereas eating animal products is the norm. I am a bit skeptical about your second example too.Its ignorance. Plain and simple. Dont be afraid to challenge people like that. Ask them if they eliminate cat or dog, which in some cultures are food. If so Shes disordered. Some cultures even eat their own poop. Does that mean Im disordered?
In all fairness, I've heard the argument that eliminating a food group is disordered eating. However, it's of course possible to have a healthy relationship with food while eating vegan.0 -
That would be like saying children are partaking in disordered eating because they don't like broccoli.0
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I have Bipolar I--that is a mental health condition. Veganism--not so much. I think a lot of people's perceptions of vegans are that all we eat are salads and that we cut out more than just animal products, which isn't necessarily true (though there are some vegans who do eat very unhealthfully and don't focus on plant-based foods). In this case, it just sounds like a matter of ignorance. Completely cutting out carbs is disordered eating because it can harm and kill you eventually; cutting out animal products is a way different ball game.0
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Hi there! First of all, I'd like to point out that you are not eliminating an entire food group if you are still eating beans and nuts (they are grouped with meat in the same food group). They are a valid and healthy source of protein, so it is not like you have chosen to give up protein foods.
Secondly, when I first became vegan 23 years ago, my high school health teacher told me I was going to wither and die eating a vegan diet (I am not kidding those were her exact words). I was shocked that a health teacher could be so ignorant about vegetarian/vegan lifestyles, but in her defense, I was the only vegan she had ever encountered. She was obviously concerned for me, but instead of acknowledging her ignorance about veganism chose to try to scare me into eating a "normal American diet".
When I first became vegetarian (25 years ago) and then vegan I heard from my friends and relatives: "this is just a phase, you'll start eating normally again soon". Well, phases must last a long time for me. Thank goodness my mom listened to my needs and helped me find the new foods I needed for proper nutrition.
I have been very healthy over the last 25 years and plan to continue with what I know works. I signed up on MFP to become more aware of my eating choices (they have introduced a lot of new vegan desserts and baked goods over the last 25 years and I have started to enjoy them too much). MFP is helping me to get back to the whole foods that sustained me for the first couple of decades of veganism!
Good luck convincing friends that your choice is right for you. I gave up trying to convince anyone and let my life speak for itself. Please don't worry about veganism being disordered eating, it is what you make of it and if you approach it with healthy intentions, you have no cause for concern. 0 -
I'm a mental health professional and a vegan. Eating a vegan diet is not a sign of disorder, but people with disordered eating can use a vegan diet to further their disorders.
People with eating disorders like anorexia and bulimia often use it as an excuse not to eat when out in public, people who have orthorexic tendencies become overly obsessed with health and this could include vegan dieting. There is sometimes an appealing element of vegan diets to those who have control or perfectionist issues because of the attention to detail. Honestly, though, these same people can find an outlet for that trait in non-vegan diets so I don't believe it's fair to pick on the vegan diet.
Many residential facilities do not allow their clients to eat a vegan diet because they believe it furthers the disorder. I am opposed to this belief, but I suspect a part of this in some facilities is not wanting to assume the responsibility/liability/effort of catering to a vegan diet while trying to refeed and teach healthy eating habits.0 -
Many residential facilities do not allow their clients to eat a vegan diet because they believe it furthers the disorder. I am opposed to this belief, but I suspect a part of this in some facilities is not wanting to assume the responsibility/liability/effort of catering to a vegan diet while trying to refeed and teach healthy eating habits.
That seems very discriminatory. How do they justify this? Living a vegan lifestyle is one of the most important things in my life, as I started it not for the health benefits but because I believe it is morally wrong to harm animals. Also, what about someone who is vegan as part of their religion? I'm very curious about this.0 -
They can justify it by saying that it is medically contraindicated to cater to a restrictive diet while trying to teach healthy eating habits. My guess is that they would cater to someone's religious beliefs. But another reason they can justify it is that no one *has* to go to their particular facility. Each residential facility has its own codes and own rules that are explained before you begin.
There are some residential facilities that will cater to a vegan diet. Unfortunately, residential is extremely expensive and not always covered by insurance (or sufficiently covered even when it is) so people in this position are very unlucky.
I agree with you, though. My veganism has nothing to do with health and everything to do with my love for animals. To me, there is nothing healthy about eating suffering, and nothing restrictive about refusing to take part in that exploitation and suffering.0 -
I've not heard anything quite like that!! Kinda makes me laugh because some people are completely ignorant (regardless of their title)!!
All of my family thought i was on my way to an eating disorder because i turned Vegan (some of who are VEGETARIAN!!)
Restricting my diet too much etc...
However no one has mentioned how much better i look or how much more energy i have!!
Before i became a Vegan my nails were awful and weak. NOW i have beautiful strong nails. I can only put this down to my IMPROVED DIET!
This might sound weird but my hair has grown so quickly... I could never get it passed my shoulders and now its half way down my back and healthier.
No animals harmed, Healthier and Happier me...
If this is an eating disorder
GREAT!!!!!!
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Since she's an aquaintance, and not a close friend, I would try to see her as seldom as possible. You don't need such negativity in your life.0
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Since I first posted asking, she's ended our friendship, in a quite ugly fashion, too, I might add. I feel that jealously of my well-health and physical fitness is the cause of her animosity.0
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this seems incredibly ethnocentric to me. many cultures eliminate entire food groups, it's quite common, halal and kosher diets, seventh day adventists, macrobiotic buddhists, and the list goes on. it would not only be wrong, but also offensive to say that any of these diets were "disordered eating."
the reality is, medicine and science happen within the context of the societies and institutions in which they are performed. in america, meat is normative, so the predominant paradigm of medical professionals is going to be aligned with these norms.
obviously there are people with disordered eating of all dietary persuasions, it just sounds ignorant, and prejudiced to declare all people within a social distinction are the same.0 -
There are actually two new eating disorders (definitions from wikipedia)
This is the one you guys are talking about
Orthorexia nervosa (also known as orthorexia) is a non-medically recognized term[a] first used by Steven Bratman to characterize people who develop an obsession with avoiding foods perceived to be unhealthy.[1][2] Orthorexia nervosa is believed to be a mental disorder
and
This one is basically adult picky eaters
Selective eating disorder (SED) (also known as perseverative feeding disorder) is an eating disorder that prevents the consumption of certain foods. It is often viewed as a phase of childhood that is generally overcome with age. Children may not grow out of the disorder, however, and may continue to be afflicted with SED throughout their adult lives.0 -
Thanks for the information emmydoodles83. I don't think these disorders apply to most vegans. I guess it depends on the reason you are vegan. Personally, I don't feel right about taking other animal lives to sustain my life when there is a non-harming alternative. Most vegans I know are vegans for that reason. There are people who choose a vegan lifestyle for health reasons and some of them because their doctor recommends it. As for vegans avoiding unhealthy foods, many people do so and probably avoid other unhealthy things like cigarettes, etc. But, I don't think that can be considered obsessive, we're just taking care of ourselves to the best of our abilities. The selective eating disorder (SED) sounds so vague that I can't believe it is actually a recognized disorder. By their definition, whole cultures would have SED.
I think it all comes down to your intentions. If you are eating a vegan diet out of fear of gaining weight and think this is the answer because it CAN be restrictive, then you may want to consider talking to someone who counsels people with eating disorders. A healthy vegan diet does not have to be "restrictive". It is what you make of it.
Again, thanks for providing this information for discussion.0 -
Where are those disorders from? The DSM-5 website doesn't have them listed, and they aren't in the DSM-IVTR. The closest I found was this:
Avoidant/Restrictive Food Intake Disorder
A. Eating or feeding disturbance (including but not limited to apparent lack of interest in eating or food; avoidance based on the sensory characteristics of food; or concern about aversive consequences of eating) as manifested by persistent failure to meet appropriate nutritional and/or energy needs associated with one or more of the following:
1. Significant weight loss (or failure to gain weight or faltering growth in children);
2. Significant nutritional deficiency;
3. Dependence on enteral feeding;
4. Marked interference with psychosocial functioning.
B. There is no evidence that lack of available food or an associated culturally sanctioned practice is sufficient to account alone for the disorder.
C. The eating disturbance does not occur exclusively during the course of Anorexia Nervosa or Bulimia Nervosa, and there is no evidence of a disturbance in the way of which one's body weight or shape is experienced.
D. If the eating disturbance occurs in the context of a medical condition or another mental disorder, it is sufficiently severe to warrant independent clinical attention.
Note: Text will include description of three main subtypes: individuals who do not eat enough/show little interest in feeding; individuals who only accept a limited diet in relation to sensory features; and, individuals whose food refusal is related to aversive experience.0 -
I don't feel a vegan diet falls under a disorder at all, in my mind a vegan diet is an excellent diet if done correctly. I heard on the radio about the newer disorders so I looked them up. Google it baby. Just because it isn't on DSM-5 YET doesn't mean it doesn't exist.0
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I've taken several psychology classes (no degree), and your friend sounds like she is employing a "defense mechanism". Possibly, she feels convicted by you eating the right way, and if she can make an "educated" justification to support eating poorly, then she doesn't have to feel guilty for not changing his/her way of eating. Its re-focusing the blame to you!
That being said, ANYTHING can be taken to extremes and made into a psychological disorder. There probably are over-the-top vegans out there, but I don't think that is the norm. I think I recall there being a "new" addition to psychology, where eliminating food groups is now considered a psychological issue. However, psychiatry/psychology does NOT hold water and has lost their integrity in my opinion, because about 6 or 7 years ago, they said that pedophelia wasn't a psychological problem, unless the pedophile felt "guilty"! (Anyone else recall this?) Gimme a break! How insulting to anyone who was ever abused...0 -
Thanks, baby! But I know what orthorexia is, but I'm not aware of it being accepted yet as an actual medical disorder. I know what Tanorexia and Fatorexia are but don't know that I would consider them actual afflictions just yet. I'm also not saying they aren't, which is why I asked you-I was interested because I've been wondering if Orthorexia would be included in the DSM. I just know that when I followed your google advice, the first thing that came up re orthorexia said "Non-medically recognized." (Which I know was also in the definition you posted.) There are also other eating disorders that are proposed that can't yet be considered established eating disorders due to not being in the DSM yet, such as Purging Disorder. Currently something such as orthorexia (which I believe was "discovered" in the 1990's so not really new) would be classified as EDNOS.0
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There are actually two new eating disorders (definitions from wikipedia)
This is the one you guys are talking about
Orthorexia nervosa (also known as orthorexia) is a non-medically recognized term[a] first used by Steven Bratman to characterize people who develop an obsession with avoiding foods perceived to be unhealthy.[1][2] Orthorexia nervosa is believed to be a mental disorder
and
This one is basically adult picky eaters
Selective eating disorder (SED) (also known as perseverative feeding disorder) is an eating disorder that prevents the consumption of certain foods. It is often viewed as a phase of childhood that is generally overcome with age. Children may not grow out of the disorder, however, and may continue to be afflicted with SED throughout their adult lives.
WHEW! the food I avoid isn't perceived to be unhealthy, it actually is! Saved by the China Study! LOL!0 -
You definitely do not have an eating disorder. The decision you've made to become Vegan should never be explained, defended or questioned. You have made a personal choice that no profession, friend or whomever should ever question. All that came out of your friends mouth was fear...When I turned vegan I sure had my naysayers...and at the beginning I was always defending, finding facts to back up my decision....and that pissed me off. So now if anyone wants to challenge me I simply say with the sweetest voice....You have your concerns however....I choose not to shed any blood to feed myself and my family....done! Yes I know initially it sounds harsh...but the audacity for people to question what I put in my mouth floors me...I'm a grown *kitten* woman. So never you mind about an eating disorder....you are fine and bless your heart!0
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You definitely do not have an eating disorder. The decision you've made to become Vegan should never be explained, defended or questioned. You have made a personal choice that no profession, friend or whomever should ever question. All that came out of your friends mouth was fear...When I turned vegan I sure had my naysayers...and at the beginning I was always defending, finding facts to back up my decision....and that pissed me off. So now if anyone wants to challenge me I simply say with the sweetest voice....You have your concerns however....I choose not to shed any blood to feed myself and my family....done! Yes I know initially it sounds harsh...but the audacity for people to question what I put in my mouth floors me...I'm a grown *kitten* woman. So never you mind about an eating disorder....you are fine and bless your heart!
I love you, well put.0 -
Thanks, baby! But I know what orthorexia is, but I'm not aware of it being accepted yet as an actual medical disorder. I know what Tanorexia and Fatorexia are but don't know that I would consider them actual afflictions just yet. I'm also not saying they aren't, which is why I asked you-I was interested because I've been wondering if Orthorexia would be included in the DSM. I just know that when I followed your google advice, the first thing that came up re orthorexia said "Non-medically recognized." (Which I know was also in the definition you posted.) There are also other eating disorders that are proposed that can't yet be considered established eating disorders due to not being in the DSM yet, such as Purging Disorder. Currently something such as orthorexia (which I believe was "discovered" in the 1990's so not really new) would be classified as EDNOS.
I was giving her the definition of the one she was talking about. I could really care less if they are medically accepted or not, that crap changes on a day to day anyway. You want to know about it like that do your own research0 -
I've done my own research, thought you might have info I didn't have when you brought up that there were two new eating disorders, and was again interested in what you knew. But I'd hate to see this topic even more derailed for the people who want to read it, so I'm sitting out the rest of this thread. Peace!0
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I've heard variations such as "vegan is too extreme...those extreme diets are unhealthy" etc and other similar things from the "I'm going to keep eating what i've been eating for 30 years and continue to complain about why i'm overweight and my health is poor" crowd, but I generally ignore them. The whole "eating disorder" accusation is new to me!
One of my favorite little quotes (I think it was in the movie forks over knives) was that many people consider eliminating animals products from the diet "too extreme" but some would consider getting your chest cut open, your rib cage separated, having a vein from your leg removed and sewn onto your heart pretty extreme. :laugh:0 -
It's just the latest popular slam against vegans. I've run into it in a number of forums. I'm assuming it's a meme being propagated by the paleo/primal/Atkins diet industry. Ignore it, or fight back, but never accept it.0
This discussion has been closed.