It's choice. As I have said many time, live and let live.

Are you stating this as an opinion or as if it were a fact? It's hard to tell without additional information.

What does it matter? I was asked what I thought. Without getting into a tirade of arguments, I have made my mind known and I can move on. Live and let live :flowerforyou:

It matters because you stated a fact without any evidence, or even an opinion, to back up what you said. Like Evan stated, there's no "rules" saying you can't do that, but I feel it's "Debatable Debating Etiquette" to, you know, elaborate on such a vage opinion you state as fact.

Ah, the Bible said it. Better not eat shellfish or wear pants then.

And of course, whatever a Christian (or any one else) may believe about the morality of homosexuality, has zero to do with the debate at hand regarding it being a choice or genetic hardwiring.

I agree with your statement. But jq did mention this:
Even in the New Testament, there are stories of men with homosexual tendencies who remained celibate because the Christian precept is that the act of one man having sex with another is sinful. There are even instances in the New Testament of homosexuals turning from their previous lifestyles and having loving, successful heterosexual marriages.

It shows a choice. Let's say they wanted to follow The Dhali Lama, they chose to refrain because of their new beliefs. It's a choice. They could've said "I can't do anything about it. It's not my choice."

Alright, I'll bite. It's a choice to me. I find it hard to believe that if people are meant to be gay, evolution would've created a race of a-sexual beings yet. No "gay gene" has yet to be found. When I was in highschool in the 90s, I have asked ALL of my gay friends if they were ever molested as kids. ALL of them said yes. To my surpirse, 3 of them now have heterosexual relationships with families and the whole nine yards. Why the sudden change? None of them have ever gotten back to me as of now. But I find it extremely difficult to accept it as it not being a choice if you can go from straight to gay and back to straight. You can shout and yell till you're blue, but you won't convince me other wise.

Noted

In an effort to offer a varying perspective, I will give some counter evidence of my own however. Please keep in mind, I have no intention of trying to convince you of anything. Be comfortable in the knowledge that while I have quoted you, I am not speaking to you, or at least not just you, and I certainly wouldn't think of yelling...or turning blue. Blue skin and a red beard? That's all kinds of wrong.

I know very few of my gay friends who claim to be molested. The number is roughly equivalent to the number of straight friends I have that claim to have been molested. I can therefore draw no correlation between orientation and that particular trauma. Clearly we have different sets of data. And again, I have yet to see someone clearly state the relationship between the potential for orientation being changeable and the necessity that it must therefore be driven by choice on some level. The two aren't linked by logic that I've seen yet.

The more this topic comes up, generally not necessarily here, the more I think the topic is just a red herring. People want it to be a choice because then they believe it is wholly within the realm of behavior. For whatever reason, some people either cannot or really don't want to think of orientation as an identity.

Thankfully, SCOTUS (in lawrence v texas) has ruled that behavior and identity can't be made distinct in that way when it comes to sexual orientation.

I don't understand how someone can know their sexuality when they are children....

You don't necessarily view it as a child in terms of "sex" but there are still thoughts that demonstrate orientation. I loved fantasizing about my dream wedding I would someday have........and in my child's imagination, I had no idea about any of the things that would take place on a honeymoon....but I did know that I wanted to find a groom for my someday wedding, not a bride.

That's what I believe is meant when someone says they've "always" known.

imho, gay:

1. is, in a majority of cases, of biological origin. There are exceptions where it's chosen/experimented with/etc. But I definitely DO believe it is something genetically inherent.

2. is never a good enough reason to discriminate against someone or curtail their rights.


When society makes it such a hard path to be gay, why would someone choose that? I get that there are always folks who choose exactly what society deems to be unacceptable, (for example, a person who has facial tattoos has chosen something society dislikes, and they give no ****s).

The very high incidence of suicide among gay youth is an indicator in my mind of how many young people struggle with this, and suffer because of it. If it were just a choice, then I doubt it would be such a difficult struggle.

Alright, I'll bite. It's a choice to me. I find it hard to believe that if people are meant to be gay, evolution would've created a race of a-sexual beings yet. No "gay gene" has yet to be found. When I was in highschool in the 90s, I have asked ALL of my gay friends if they were ever molested as kids. ALL of them said yes. To my surpirse, 3 of them now have heterosexual relationships with families and the whole nine yards. Why the sudden change? None of them have ever gotten back to me as of now. But I find it extremely difficult to accept it as it not being a choice if you can go from straight to gay and back to straight. You can shout and yell till you're blue, but you won't convince me other wise.

I had no idea you were friends with every single gay person in the whole world, to which you based your research off of.

SO - straight folks who believe it's a choice. Can you describe how you "Chose" to be hetero? The day you weighed your options and made a rational decision?

And while I like this saying (a lot), the reason it fails for the target audience is that frequently their assumption is that they didn't choose to be hetero because that's the default that everyone just *is.* They don't view heterosexuality and homosexuality as equal options at all. Homosexuality just ends up be a secondary deviation of heterosexuality.

Agreed. I think people go along the lines of thinking that people are straight simply because that's for procreation--2 females or 2 males cannot biologically produce a child. Only a male and a female together can do that. In my opinion, that is hard-wired into some people's brains. It's not in mine, however, as I'm a straight woman who does not want children. So therefore, is something wrong with my own sexuality? Is there something wrong with my boyfriend's sexuality, since he agrees--no kids? I'm sure some would say so. I don't.

Also, like Mandy said, many animals display homosexual tendencies. Some show bisexual tendencies. Some are asexual, bisexual, and gay. Komodo dragons, for example: a female komodo dragon can lay eggs on her own, with no previous mate. She can also obviously lay eggs through mating with a male.

Alright, I'll bite. It's a choice to me. I find it hard to believe that if people are meant to be gay, evolution would've created a race of a-sexual beings yet. No "gay gene" has yet to be found. When I was in highschool in the 90s, I have asked ALL of my gay friends if they were ever molested as kids. ALL of them said yes. To my surpirse, 3 of them now have heterosexual relationships with families and the whole nine yards. Why the sudden change? None of them have ever gotten back to me as of now. But I find it extremely difficult to accept it as it not being a choice if you can go from straight to gay and back to straight. You can shout and yell till you're blue, but you won't convince me other wise.

I had no idea you were friends with every single gay person in the whole world, to which you based your research off of.

Will you be that ONE person that makes everything bigger than what it really is? Peace man :flowerforyou: If you read correctly, you would have seen me write ALL of my gay friends. Not every single one in the entire known universe.

SO - straight folks who believe it's a choice. Can you describe how you "Chose" to be hetero? The day you weighed your options and made a rational decision?

And while I like this saying (a lot), the reason it fails for the target audience is that frequently their assumption is that they didn't choose to be hetero because that's the default that everyone just *is.* They don't view heterosexuality and homosexuality as equal options at all. Homosexuality just ends up be a secondary deviation of heterosexuality.

Glad you asked. I knew from the age of 8 after a boy named Javier grabbed my winky and kissed me. I didn't punch him or push him away, but I knew I didn't like it. I never played with him after that. Also when I got a boner from seeing Ms. Capolla stretch for gym class. I think it's why I have a thing for brunettes with light eyes.

When you make a generalization based off of YOUR friends only, then yes, I will bring it into question. If you can't defend your "logic," then yes, I am going to question it so I can hopefully get an answer. You posted your opinion here, in a DEBATE forum, so guess what? I'm DEBATING it.

I read what you posted. You still are not making any sense. If you do not know the history of every gay person in the world, then how do you equate "all the gay people I know were molested" to even be relevant? That's like a person saying they're racist, and that it's because "every [insert race here] person I've known acted this way." They're equating an entire race to be one way, when clearly, they are not.

I didn't know what sex was, either, but for some reason I knew what attraction was.

Exactly. I remember being 5 or so, not knowing what sex was, but planning a wedding with a white dress, flowers, and all to a boy. And I know a little boy now who is six, who is adamant that he will marry a boy when he grows up. Maybe he won't, but I don't think he's making it up.

My 5 year old still thinks he is marrying me, and his teacher, and the girls in his class, all of them. I don't think there is one answer here that covers everyone. Some people choose, some don't.

Good point about debating. I'll hear your side of the discussion as to why you think it isn't a choice, for I already made mine on my point of view. If my generalization of the entire gay population offended you, that's on you to feel how you do.

I don't think it's a choice because I personally don't feel that anyone can pick and choose who they are attracted to. I could TRY to be attracted to a woman the same as I am a man, but it wouldn't be the same. My lesbian friend can TRY to be attracted to men, and indeed, tried in the past to please her family, but she is who she is. Bisexual people can and are attracted to both sexes. Everyone is different. I can't explain why I like to eat black forest cake--I just like it. I can pretend to NOT like it, but I'd be lying. I'd be lying if I said I liked to eat lamb--I don't like the taste, and I have no idea why. Sexuality, in my opinion, is the same--it is different for everyone.

Bisexuality, to me, proves that for some, sexuality isn't limited to being attracted simply to one gender.

Sorry to combine food and sex together. Obviously I am hungry.:laugh: