Is Homosexuality a Choice?
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I guess I really don't care whether it's nature or nurture. I have gay friends who've used that "Who would choose to go through this?" view and others who've said "If I had to choose I would absolutely choose this ten time out of ten because I know how much joy I have known as a direct result of it." In the end, over the long haul, I think people will look back and chuckle at the fact that we even worried about it. At least I hope they will.
Agreed. I will never, ever understand why someone's sexuality is an issue for some in the first place0 -
In the end, over the long haul, I think people will look back and chuckle at the fact that we even worried about it. At least I hope they will.
I agree, a merging of sexual preferences is where we're headed, at least in the free world and eventually as a species.
Human sexuality is very diverse and can be complex, so the notion of categorising ourselves into Hetro, Homo or Bi is going to become so difficult to apply, (if it isn't already), that we simply won't bother in the future or bat an eyelid. I think that can only be good for things like homophobia and sexism.0 -
That may have been a day that you became aware that you did like girls and did not like boys. It's not the day you made a 'choice'.
<<lots'a snippage>>SO - straight folks who believe it's a choice. Can you describe how you "Chose" to be hetero? The day you weighed your options and made a rational decision?
Glad you asked. I knew from the age of 8 after a boy named Javier grabbed my winky and kissed me. I didn't punch him or push him away, but I knew I didn't like it. I never played with him after that. Also when I got a boner from seeing Ms. Capolla stretch for gym class. I think it's why I have a thing for brunettes with light eyes.0 -
That may have been a day that you became aware that you did like girls and did not like boys. It's not the day you made a 'choice'.
<<lots'a snippage>>SO - straight folks who believe it's a choice. Can you describe how you "Chose" to be hetero? The day you weighed your options and made a rational decision?
Glad you asked. I knew from the age of 8 after a boy named Javier grabbed my winky and kissed me. I didn't punch him or push him away, but I knew I didn't like it. I never played with him after that. Also when I got a boner from seeing Ms. Capolla stretch for gym class. I think it's why I have a thing for brunettes with light eyes.
Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable if ANYONE were to just come up and grab me, whether as a child or as an adult. :laugh:0 -
That may have been a day that you became aware that you did like girls and did not like boys. It's not the day you made a 'choice'.
<<lots'a snippage>>SO - straight folks who believe it's a choice. Can you describe how you "Chose" to be hetero? The day you weighed your options and made a rational decision?
Glad you asked. I knew from the age of 8 after a boy named Javier grabbed my winky and kissed me. I didn't punch him or push him away, but I knew I didn't like it. I never played with him after that. Also when I got a boner from seeing Ms. Capolla stretch for gym class. I think it's why I have a thing for brunettes with light eyes.
Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable if ANYONE were to just come up and grab me, whether as a child or as an adult. :laugh:
This reminded me of some advice. I don't care to go into details about how I know this, but if you're going to wear a kilt to a bear bar, be prepared for guys to randomly come up and see if you're wearing it "properly."0 -
Good point about debating. I'll hear your side of the discussion as to why you think it isn't a choice, for I already made mine on my point of view. If my generalization of the entire gay population offended you, that's on you to feel how you do.
I don't think it's a choice because I personally don't feel that anyone can pick and choose who they are attracted to. I could TRY to be attracted to a woman the same as I am a man, but it wouldn't be the same. My lesbian friend can TRY to be attracted to men, and indeed, tried in the past to please her family, but she is who she is. Bisexual people can and are attracted to both sexes. Everyone is different. I can't explain why I like to eat black forest cake--I just like it. I can pretend to NOT like it, but I'd be lying. I'd be lying if I said I liked to eat lamb--I don't like the taste, and I have no idea why. Sexuality, in my opinion, is the same--it is different for everyone.
Bisexuality, to me, proves that for some, sexuality isn't limited to being attracted simply to one gender.
Sorry to combine food and sex together. Obviously I am hungry.:laugh:
LOL!!! It's OK. I'm always hungry. But do you see what you did? You're basing your thoughts on people ONLY YOU know. That's doesn't prove anything. Just because YOUR FRIEND feels like she has no choice, doesn't mean everyone does. Or else, how would you explain people who were once gay and have families and so forth. Or vice versa? Do I have an issue with people being gay. Hell no! I have a lesbian niece whom I become very close with because her mom (my sister) shunned her because of it. Not a very Christian thing to do. Anyway, everyone chooses to live how they want. Who am I to stop anyone from being happy?0 -
I do not think your sexuality is a choice that you make. Either you find members of the same sex or opposite sex attractive or you don't.
Is one born like that? I don't think it is that simple. My best guess is there are a multitude of factors that go into a person's sexual preference including the environment they grow up in, the culture they grow up in, the people they are exposed to, the experiences they enjoy... and on and on...
If one can argue that a person is born with a specific sexual preference then they could also argue that a person is born with ANY preference or desire or like or dislike that they have.
When someone discovers a human sexuality gene then I will agree a person is born that way. Until then I just don't see it.0 -
LOL!!! It's OK. I'm always hungry. But do you see what you did? You're basing your thoughts on people ONLY YOU know. That's doesn't prove anything. Just because YOUR FRIEND feels like she has no choice, doesn't mean everyone does. Or else, how would you explain people who were once gay and have families and so forth. Or vice versa? Do I have an issue with people being gay. Hell no! I have a lesbian niece whom I become very close with because her mom (my sister) shunned her because of it. Not a very Christian thing to do. Anyway, everyone chooses to live how they want. Who am I to stop anyone from being happy?
So here's where we come into complexities and problems. Sexuality is probably this weird intersection of psychology, sociology, biology, and biochemistry. See those first two disciplines? Yeah, they're annoying. The types of rational conversations we like to have about nutrition can't apply here because sexuality depends on self reporting. Everyone kind of has to take my word for that I'm into guys. Just like they have to take my word for when I say it wasn't a choice. I think in my case, there's some additional evidence helps support my assertion, some of which is obvious and some of which is none of anyone else's business
So, when someone who will remain nameless, makes a statement that doesn't suggest and instead flat out states that homosexuality is a choice without any additional specifications, there's an implication that they're arguing with anyone who says that it wasn't a choice for them.
I do agree we choose how we live. But even if I chose not to act on that part of my identity, it would still be a part of my identity. Some parts of our identity I think we can choose, but I don't think this one of them. It isn't for me nor most of lgbt peeps I've encountered.0 -
Good point about debating. I'll hear your side of the discussion as to why you think it isn't a choice, for I already made mine on my point of view. If my generalization of the entire gay population offended you, that's on you to feel how you do.
I don't think it's a choice because I personally don't feel that anyone can pick and choose who they are attracted to. I could TRY to be attracted to a woman the same as I am a man, but it wouldn't be the same. My lesbian friend can TRY to be attracted to men, and indeed, tried in the past to please her family, but she is who she is. Bisexual people can and are attracted to both sexes. Everyone is different. I can't explain why I like to eat black forest cake--I just like it. I can pretend to NOT like it, but I'd be lying. I'd be lying if I said I liked to eat lamb--I don't like the taste, and I have no idea why. Sexuality, in my opinion, is the same--it is different for everyone.
Bisexuality, to me, proves that for some, sexuality isn't limited to being attracted simply to one gender.
Sorry to combine food and sex together. Obviously I am hungry.:laugh:
LOL!!! It's OK. I'm always hungry. But do you see what you did? You're basing your thoughts on people ONLY YOU know. That's doesn't prove anything. Just because YOUR FRIEND feels like she has no choice, doesn't mean everyone does. Or else, how would you explain people who were once gay and have families and so forth. Or vice versa? Do I have an issue with people being gay. Hell no! I have a lesbian niece whom I become very close with because her mom (my sister) shunned her because of it. Not a very Christian thing to do. Anyway, everyone chooses to live how they want. Who am I to stop anyone from being happy?
Hmm...I didn't think it came off that way, but I definitely didn't use my friend as an example to represent every lesbian, or to insinuate that I based my opinion on this subject off of just people I know. To clarify: My feelings on this topic weren't formed just from people I know.
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I think the real question is why is the question of whether or not homosexuality a choice or genetic important to so many people on both sides of the issue. I have my theories, but what are yours?0
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I think the real question is why is the question of whether or not homosexuality a choice or genetic important to so many people on both sides of the issue. I have my theories, but what are yours?
I personally don't feel it's important.
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I think the real question is why is the question of whether or not homosexuality a choice or genetic important to so many people on both sides of the issue. I have my theories, but what are yours?
I think it's a just a rhetorical defense. When the idea of a gay gene was proposed in any sort of mainstream way, homosexuality didn't poll nearly as well as it does these days. The real point is, if we all agree for the sake argument that it's a choice, then what's wrong with the choice? At the time, lots and lots of people would have just said, "It's just wrong." without having any sort of rational basis for it. So the "gay gene" was an attempt to add a bit of rationality to the discussion to get people used to the idea that we're talking about something innate and not strictly behavioral.
I wouldn't be surprised if there were genetic predispositions toward being gay, but good luck finding a gene for it as such.
Generally, people who are opposed homosexuality reduce it down to being strictly an issue of behavior. And if that's the case, then behavior can be modified. Genetics can be modified too, but that leads you to a eugenics conversation that won't end well.0 -
Additionally, I tend to think choice isn't involved much because if you're making a choice to change your orientation, it seems like there's a lot more going on there than just changing your orientation. I mean, if you suddenly find yourself attracted to someone from a gender that you don't usually respond to in that way (emotionally and physically), then you haven't made a choice; it just happened.
If you go through a process where you're weighing the options and you decide "Nope, I'm going to be [heterosexual/homosexual] instead now." The question is why? What else is happening in your life? I have known people who have tried to change and genuinely wanted to make a choice, but it was because something else was wrong. They hated themselves, or felt as if someone they loved hated them, or they suffered from various forms of depression. Being gay wasn't the problem. All these other issues were the problem, "being gay" just got stuck with the check and seemed like the easiest fix for them. I haven't met one person for whom it worked out long term. It's not to say that it doesn't happen, but I think the circumstances for that kind of lasting change of identity made by choice are pretty darn rare.0 -
Additionally, I tend to think choice isn't involved much because if you're making a choice to change your orientation, it seems like there's a lot more going on there than just changing your orientation. I mean, if you suddenly find yourself attracted to someone from a gender that you don't usually respond to in that way (emotionally and physically), then you haven't made a choice; it just happened.
If you go through a process where you're weighing the options and you decide "Nope, I'm going to be [heterosexual/homosexual] instead now." The question is why? What else is happening in your life? I have known people who have tried to change and genuinely wanted to make a choice, but it was because something else was wrong. They hated themselves, or felt as if someone they loved hated them, or they suffered from various forms of depression. Being gay wasn't the problem. All these other issues were the problem, "being gay" just got stuck with the check and seemed like the easiest fix for them. I haven't met one person for whom it worked out long term. It's not to say that it doesn't happen, but I think the circumstances for that kind of lasting change of identity made by choice are pretty darn rare.
My own theory ties into what I previously said earlier about the black and white arguments. I feel that groups such as the religious considered it a choice and a sin, therefore harmful and bad. I think that the reaction by the gay community and the progressives was to argue from the other side of the spectrum that none of it was a choice and it wall all chemical or genetic or what have yout. And while I truly do believe, as stated earlier, that there are a section of the population that is completely, genetically gay, there is a larger segment of the population that could in theory exhibit gay behavior for the sheer pleasure of it, but remain totally hetero to meet societal, religous, and moral standards. So in the end, for some people, it might be a choice because their urges are vastly reduced compared to the 100% homosexual for nothing other than what seems to be peer pressure on a grand scale.0 -
My problem with genetics is this. We are born with certain physical traits. Black/ blonde hair. Blue/Green or Brown eyes. Black, brown, peach or white skin. We grow to a certain length. We inherited these characteristics from our parents, and parents parents and so on. Homosexuals who decide to have kids, using their own genetic make up, do not give birth to other homosexual kids. If that were so, then our orientation would not be an orientation because we have inhereted our parents traits; it would be a race or ethnic group. Granted, there is no importance if one is or isn't. We live on the same planet, breathe the same air and fart just like everyone else. The question at hand is if it's choice. I guess in the end, no one can prove anything otherwise.0
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I believe the great majority of homosexuals are born that way. I believe it happens during the development stages of the fetus. While I realize there are some who choose this lifestyle for personal reasons, I do not believe that to be the norm.0
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My problem with genetics is this. We are born with certain physical traits. Black/ blonde hair. Blue/Green or Brown eyes. Black, brown, peach or white skin. We grow to a certain length. We inherited these characteristics from our parents, and parents parents and so on. Homosexuals who decide to have kids, using their own genetic make up, do not give birth to other homosexual kids. If that were so, then our orientation would not be an orientation because we have inhereted our parents traits; it would be a race or ethnic group. Granted, there is no importance if one is or isn't. We live on the same planet, breathe the same air and fart just like everyone else. The question at hand is if it's choice. I guess in the end, no one can prove anything otherwise.
your argument is interesting, but there are a vast array of traits and conditions that may or may not be present in parents, but may be manifested in children.
My dad has black hair and brown eyes. Tans like a coffeebean. Yet I am a freckled ginger.
I've heard some recent talk about having found a structural difference in the brains of gays? Anybody know what I'm talking about?0 -
The question at hand is if it's choice. I guess in the end, no one can prove anything otherwise.
The vast majority of gay people I have met say it isn't a choice they made, it's just a part of who they are, who they have always been.
Why don't we just take their word for it? Why do we need "proof"?
You believe me when I tell you Jameson is my favorite whiskey, right? Even if the thought of drinking room temperature whiskey is repellent to you? You don't need to know if it is my Irish heritage causing me to be predisposed to whiskey loving, or just my own personal taste preference, right?
So born or chosen, doesn't really matter much, imho. I do think it's born, because I work with lots of little kids, and I have seen enough to believe that for myself. But even if it was 100% chosen, (just like religion is), that would still not be a good enough reason to treat people badly or curtail their rights.0 -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3S24ofEQj4&feature=share
And people wonder why there is a negative stigma around homosexuals in the older community?0 -
One of Davis' most notorious films, Boys Beware (1961), produced with the cooperation of the Inglewood, California Police Department and the Inglewood Unified School District, warns boys of the perceived dangers of male homosexuals. The film includes the line "What Jimmy didn't know was that Ralph was sick -- a sickness that was not visible like smallpox, but no less dangerous and contagious--a sickness of the mind. You see, Ralph was a homosexual: a person who demands an intimate relationship with members of their own sex."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sid_Davis0
