47 yo female: expectations and frustrations

tigerblue

I think I am the "old lady of MFP! I started here 5 years ago and have missed very few days since. Currently, my logging streak is 1689 days! So I am certainly not a newbie!

I have been fairly successful overall. Initially I lost over 40 lbs, but I have re-gained around 15. I am still in a healthy BMI range but would like to lose 8-10 to get back to my "happy weight". Or just lose bodyfat and inches, which brings me to my question. But first a bit of background.

I followed MFP suggestions to a "t" for my initial weight loss. I used the net goal generated for a lb a week (it was 1360 or so at first) and exercised and ate back my calories. I was very disciplined. I did not eat "clean" but I soon learned that eating better made calorie budgeting easier! At first I simply walked for my exercise, but I soon progressed to running (at which point the weight just seemed to come off effortlessly), and I added some strength training through circuit DVDs with cardio components about 6 months in. I finished losing in about 11 months and weighed in at 112 lbs. I maintained at 114 or so for about a year before starting a slow gain. I was still tracking, but it was like the rules changed. I dropped back to net 1200, and nothing happened (in retrospect I was likely overestimating exercise cals at that point, which didn't help.). I tried eating more, eating less etc. and basically ended up where I am now, which is at 129 (down from 132).

I am small (5'2.5" with small frame--my wrist is 4.5" to give you an idea), and I have come to the realization that to lose, I have to eat very carefully--about 1350 cals or less TOTAL NOT NET. I maintain my current weight at about 1550-1600 (again total). I have tracked both food and weight long enough to confirm these numbers. And my exercise routine consists of running or walking 3 times a week and circuit training (with a cardio component so I can get a bit of burn) 3 times a week.

I am frustrated with having to eat so little to get to my goal, which at this point is to get back to 120 or reduce bodyfat.

Sooo, at my age, what can I expect is possible if I eat at maintenance and continue to include regular cardio and lifting in my routine? Can I reduce bodyfat enough to make a difference?

SideSteel

I'll get to this soon but first I want to bring this to Sara's attention, only because you're 47 and referred to yourself as the "old lady of MFP" and she is also 47. And that's hilariously funny to me, so I will now troll her with this thread.


Then one of us will reply.


Priorities.

tigerblue

Ha! Actually I was referring to how long I've been on MFP! Because 47 IS NOT OLD! I look forward to hearing from y'all.

Sarauk2sf

tigerblue...ignore SideSteel...he has issues..it's all the soy he ate when I visited last!!

georgina1970

I would suggest that you reduce your cardio component and start some heavy lifting to build muscle mass. This will increase your BMR enabling you to gain a greater deficit.

tigerblue

Georgina, I do need to add some muscle mass. But if I cut my cardio, I have to cut my TDEE back by about 150 (and that is conservative, probably more like 200). That leaves me with eating under 1400 for maintenance. So I likely will need some cardio somewhere, or learn to be satisfied with less.

It is the small woman's curse. (And I don't just mean short, I mean small as in lower body weight).

Which is why I would like to know what is realistic as far as adding muscle mass at my age, etc.

When I run the current numbers on various calculators, dropping bodyfat by 5% only gives an increased daily burn of about 80 calories based on my current activity level. I'll take what I can get, but that still leaves me low without at least some cardio.

And my understanding is that a 5% change in bodyfat is pretty significant. So that is really what my question is--can I expect to lose significant bodyfat and retain muscle by eating at maintenance and doing some cardio, some strength? Or do I have to bulk and cut etc.?

JeffseekingV

I understand about the macros. at 47 & 170lbs, mine is about 1800 net. But if you're lifting, you should steer away from using your weight and BMI as the sole measure and start to look at bodyfat %.

tigerblue

I got skinfold calipers this summer for the first time. Before that I have had an electrical impedence scale. During my "gaining period" my weight went up approximately 15 lbs and my bodyfat went up about 4%, according to the electrical impedence scale. So it would seem from the math that I gained pretty close to equal amounts of fat and muscle. (I was lifting during this time, at least off and on). But I'm not sure if that is exactly the way body composition changes work.

I get such a huge difference with the skinfold that I am scared to trust it. My scale gives me about 30% bodyfat. With the calipers, I get anywhere from 19-26 percent, depending on the number of sites measured. Just measuring one site (abdominal above the hip bone) which is the graph that came with the calipers, I get 26%. With added sites, the percentage estimate goes down. This is really not surprising, since I carry most of my fat in my mid section, and I have almost no fat on my arms and legs. I have pretty decent muscle definition there too, for the amount of muscle I have. So when you take those measurements into account it significantly changes the estimate.

Anyway, all that makes my trust in the calipers go down a bit!

This fall, I decided to at least "track" the changes in the ab measurement that I mentioned above. I've lost 3 lbs, and I'm not sure about the skinfold. It is maybe 1 mm less.

Does your skinfold measurement vary with water retention, as your weight does? It would make sense that it does.

So many questions! The scale just seems simpler. But I am beginning to believe that it may be time for at least an added way of measuring. And I'm not great with the tape measure either! I can squeeze it tight enough to trick myself into thinking I've not gained. (Just like squeezing myself into the same pair of pants for 20 lbs! I did that once too. Let's just say that just because you CAN fit into a pair of pants doesn't mean you SHOULD!!)

Sarauk2sf

Posting to bring this one back to the top. Will respond soon.

Sarauk2sf

Re BF measurements - you will get inaccuracies in whatever you use. Tracking skinfold measurements (not applying to BF% though) is often preferable.

You can retain muscle eating at maintenance, and even build a little. You may be in a good position to gain a little more than some as your routine may not have been ideal re muscle loss prevention/gain.

What does your resistance training currently look like.

Regarding eating more - you do not get that much more to eat by gaining muscle - it does burn more than say fat, but as women, its really hard and takes time to gain enough to make much of a difference. You do however burn a decent amount if you consider the caloric burn of lifting itself and the related EPOC (Excess post-exercise oxygen consumption).

Can you let us know what your average daily macros are in grams.

tigerblue

Thx for the reply.

I do think the best assessment for me will be to track a few areas with the calipers. Might give me a better picture. And I need to stop looking at a % goal. It is just a number. And in my case, since I know my fat patterns, even if I have some % number that sounds awesome (getting below 20%, or whatever) what does that matter if my abs still look like 30%--all that means is that my legs are now skinnier! So I will concentrate on lowering the skinfold mm on my abs (both the diagonal and the vertical fold, I'm not remembering what they are called. Right now the vertical measurement is 13 mm and the diagonal above the hip is 10 mm) I think it is pointless for me to measure the thigh or bicep, since I can barely even get a skinfold on those. Would that be reasonable for tracking?

My current regimen has been all over the place. Let me explain.

First of all, I really like running. It is not that I am a great runner, or training for anything (although a triathalon is on my bucket list), I just find it to be very relaxing and mentally therapeutic. If I had more time, my runs would regularly be longer. But not faster. When I started trying to improve my speed it nearly killed my love for running! I don't feel as positive about any kind of strength training! It is all about what I am SUPPOSED to do. I think partly it is because I have to focus more and count. I can't just let my mind roam free like when I run. (I swear I could solve all the world's problems in my head if I could just run long enough!)

When I first added some resistance training (about6 months into my initial loss), I was using 30 day shred DVD (Jillian michaels) and others similar. I was doing that maybe two or three times a week and running 3-5 miles on the other days.

I also tried the "body for life" plan for lifting. But the DVDs were the only thing I consistently(??) stuck with. (Partly I think because of the counting, etc I mentioned above--you don't have to count with the DVDs on--and partly because I could get some cardio burn in, to help raise my TDEE, which is disgustingly low without some cardio. Especially when I weighed 115). Also, I always made it a point to use the heaviest weights I possibly could on each exercise. So if the DVD was doing say 16 reps with 5 lb bells, I would do 8 reps more slowly with 10-12lb bells.

About a year ago I did "Body Revolution" and stuck with the program for the full 3 months. It was okay but I really like more flexibility in the routine. The results of that program were pretty good. I didn't lose any weight, mostly because I couldn't seem to eat at a deficit because the workouts made me sooo hungry! But my lower abs flattened and I got some definition to my upper abs. The biggest difference was the overall shape of my torso. It became slim from the side instead of being shaped like a cucumber (does that make sense? I never really had a belly since when I initially lost weight, but I have an even blanket of fat that covers me from just below the chest to the top of the hips. It makes my waist thick, and of course causes nasty muffin tops! I still have a waistline, just too much flabbiness)

During the summer I started a planned program with dumbells that includes lots of squats, lunges, push-ups, curls, dips, step-up-and-press, planks, stability ball work, sometimes combination moves like shoulder raises with squats, etc. I did 3 sets of 8 of each exercise (or 2 sets of 10 if time pressed). I used the heaviest weight that I could do correctly for each exercise. I did this 3 days a week for the summer--8 weeks. I also often did a walk or run at the end of the program, or at another time during the day (I am a teacher so I have more time in the summer). And I ran on most off days. The results were that I felt confident enough to wear a bikini for my 25th anniversary trip to the Caribbean. (One of my non-scale goals!). I didn't quite look like I had hoped, but I felt pretty good about it. You can see a couple of pictures on my profile page.

Since school started back, I dropped back to mostly running or walking (again 3-5 miles) about 4-5 days a week, and throwing in a DVD a couple of times. During the school year, I simply don't have the time to lift and do cardio on one day, and I felt like I needed the cardio to burn some calories, especially since the above mentioned awesome trip included all inclusive food and drinks, and I came home a few pounds heavier! I'm glad to say those pounds are gone. But I'm stuck again.

This week, I started back on the dumbell weight program again, since I have decided to eat at maintenance, and I think I can make it without the extra cardio on a few days a week. I still plan to run 3-4 days a week, when weather permits.

I have dumbbells from 3 lbs up to 20 lbs, and I plan to add a set of 25 lbs ( on my Christmas list!). I also have kettlebells in 8-10-12 lbs.

I do need to workout from home, which means dumbells, rather than barbells. I just don't have the space. And I don't have the time to waste travelling to the gym, since I stay busy working, providing for my family, and doing taxi service for my teen boys (one just got his liscence, so that is helping a lot!).

Macros--I usually get at least 70 grams of protein a day, but I rarely exceed 90. On a good carb day I stay under 150g (probably 60% of the time). The rest of the time I stay under 200--except on holidays or something where there is more dessert. I try to keep fat below 30%, but usually end up about 35%. Or whatever is left over. I am still under the mindset of keep fat low because of cholesterol (mine tends to be high, mostly because my good cholesterol is high), but that seems to be wrong, according to the new research. But it is very hard to get past earlier conditioning!

Basically, I am just tired of eating at a deficit and getting few results. And it seems like when I try to eat at maintenance I gain. Here is the tricky part: if I am stalled again while eating at a deficit of about 250 cals, then doesn't that mean I am at a new maintenance? That seems to be the story of the last three years--eat at slight deficit, lose 2 or 3, then stall. Take a maintenance break, gain 2-3 back, plus another 1-2. And suddenly I am up 15. So at this point, I would be happy to maintain for several months at what my maintenance should be, based on the past three months. Which should be about 1500-1650. (Again based on results--and I figure there are some inaccuracies. After all if you log 10 items and are off 10 cals each, suddenly you lose 100 cals of your deficit!)

And this is another reason I have been inconsistent with strength training. When I switch to maintenance, I always want to make sure that I am not gaining. And of course when I lift, I do see some gain because of soreness,etc. and that always scares me. So in the name of confirming my numbers,I stop lifting. And the cycle repeats. . . .

My husband tells me I look great, and to just be happy. I get that, but I have been a little freaked out about continuing to gain, because if it continues, I'll eventually be right back where I started!

Also, I know it is unreliable, but at 129 lbs, what do you think my burn might be from lifting? Is it even possible to estimate?

And when you are really sore from lifting (like today, since I re started my program!) do you lift anyway, or wait another day?

Sorry so long, but. Hope this helps you get the full picture.

tigerblue

Hoping to hear more soon!

tigerblue

Soooo frustrated! I went to maintenance about a week ago (I usually eat at maintenance at the holidays), and now I've re-gained the 4 lbs of vacation weight that it took 4 months to lose. Really? 4 months to lose it, and 7 days to gain it??

husseycd

Can you lift heavier? Do you have access to a barbell/squat rack?

Twenty pound weights don't seem heavy enough to build any type of muscle. I really didn't start seeing changes in my body until I picked up the heavy weights. Even though I'd been doing aerial work for four years, it wasn't until I started Strong Lifts last year and joined a gym with all the necessary equipment that my body composition truly changed.

I'm a little younger (at 38 and 10 months, lol), and a little taller at 5'5". I'm right at the same weight though and I burn about 240 calories in a 45 hour-ish weight lifting session according to my BodyMedia. This matches up closely with online calculations.

My maintenance tends to be around 2100-2300 depending on whether I work out once or twice a day. I often do weights in the morning, though sometimes a shorter routine, and an aerial class in the evening. I do very little cardio, but I also rarely sit down. The difference between a sedentary day, like when I'm sick, and a normal active day without exercise is a good 200 calories. Perhaps you should look at your activity outside of the working out to bring up your TDEE.

The 4 lbs are probably just water weight too. Or at least most of it.

tigerblue

I hope you're right about the water weight!

No, I really don't have access to a barbell or squat rack. At this point in my life, I need to exercise from home. If I spend 20 minutes driving to and from the gym, basically that takes most of the time I have to work out. It is a tough balancing act to make sure I don't shortchange my family. By the time I take care of work commitments and family commitments, there is just a little time left to exercise. I'm really not trying to be stubborn here, I am just in a time in life that everyone agrees is a difficult balancing act. In just a few more years that will change. . .

Yes, probably I could lift a bit more, but in all honesty, with the routine I am doing, I can barely finish a set of 6 with the 15 or 20 lb bells, at least on my upper body. I could probably do a bit more on lower body, but I do have to watch the knees. Unfortunately, as a young person I did not participate in sports or much of any other kind of exercise other than some of the early 80's aerobic dance/jazzercise stuff. So I built probably ZERO muscle mass. And genetically my frame is tiny! I was, and still am an artist/intellectual/bookworm, so really there was no interest in any of that stuff until I realized as an adult that I would need to do some sort of exercise to keep my body healthy. Now I realize that it is doubly important because of the tiny frame that is my family's inheritance! That small frame meant that as a young person, I was able to maintain a fashionably petite figure for a long time. I didn't break 120 lbs until I was past 30. In my early 20's I easily maintained at 102. But the slowing of my metabolism has caught up with me now.

240 calories burned from lifting 45 minutes seems similar to what I was thinking. I estimate that I burn about 150-170 for a 30 minute session. So that helps confirm I am on the right track. So many people on here post huge burns, but they weigh a good bit more than me, so it helps to hear from someone similar in size. And there is no way during the school year I could do two-a-days! I do that some in the summer. But not during the school year!

Non exercise activity is a huge factor! Some of my days are moderately active, and some are completely sedentary. It all depends on my tasks for the day at work and at home. Not sure how much control I have over the work! A little more at home. Hmm, I guess I could clean house a bit more!! That would be a plus, lol! Other than that, my hobbies tend toward sedentary! Other than working out and running.

heybales

And that's why when I look around at the start of a race, there are so many short women, only way to get to eat semi-normal levels, increase that TDEE.

For the resistance training that can help keep TDEE high, using your prior method of making it heavy for you. 2 pages.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/weight-training-for-fat-loss-part-1.html

tigerblue

Thanks @heybales. I read your link and bookmarked to re read for better comprehension.

Unfortunately, the weight doesn't seem to be water. A week later I am up another pound. Now at my highest since my initial loss. I'm nearly halfway back to my weight before MFP.

And I can no longer claim that it must be muscle gains. I put on a jacket today that I hadn't worn in a year. It is a form-fitting style. It wouldn't button without all the front bulging open. So depressing. All the weight just flies back onto my mid section. I guess that is just my age.

I did just get a new Misfit Flash activity tracker. I'm hoping it will be more accurate than the Bodymedia I have been using. Yesterday Bodymedia said I burned 2600 calories. I didn't even work out. Not even a slow walk. Misfit gave me around 1800. Even though I've known Bodymedia was high, I tried to use it to track relative activity. But even that was no good. I knew it had to go when one day it reported 2500--and that was a no workout office work day.

So I am hoping the change over to misfit will help. I'm just trying to strike a balance between not feeling deprived and hungry all the time, not having to devote ALL my free time to working out, and maintaining a reasonable weight/size without continuing to gain. Because of the past 2+ years struggle, I am getting very discouraged.

heybales

I'll mention all the activity trackers start out with calculated BMR using gender, age, weight, height.
Most I've seen use that, or more correctly slightly higher RMR, for all non-moving time.

Bodymedia was the only one to attempt to adjust the base BMR level based on night-time temps. But it could only adjust so much if you were truly far off expected.
Or the sensors didn't work for you, or you slept hot, ect. It could be off.
And if a real non-moving day saw worse error - says to me the BMR being used was wrong, because even more non-moving time when it would apply.

Misfit won't be able to adjust like that, so like the others, based on just calc'd BMR.
Should be a graph or something to see what the night time burn rate is per minute. X 1440 = BMR.

And that means if you have a better Katch BMR, the height could be adjusted to get the BMR they use to better estimate, for at least the non-moving time.

tigerblue

So far the Misfit seems to be somewhat close to what has historically happened for me based on my logging and weight. It is also close to many of the calculators. Including your spreadsheet that I have used to find the "ballpark". I think it will give me a usable number, when combined with my customizing my MFP goal.

Bodymedia was so far away that even changing the height couldn't bring it in line. When my height adjustment got below 3 feet, I gave up and tried figuring the percent of accuracy for me based on results to give me some sort of average. (It was between 65-70 % accurate based on the math).

I probably was a little obsessive about trying to get it to work, but that is because my activity is SOOO variable from day to day. At home I am quite sedentary, and at work some days I am very active, and some days I am mostly at my desk, and there are days somewhere in between. I think that the last straw with the Bodymedia when it gave me a burn of over 2500 on a day when I sat and typed for the majority of the day. Didn't even work out that day. No way that is accurate when you weigh 130 lbs! I think it was picking up typing and interpreting it as exercise, based on the graphs!

Anyway, I would just use an average TDEE, but I like to get "credit" for my run days, or other more active days and eat a bit more. Not to mention the fact that my total burn on those days is so much higher than on sedentary days that I don't want to "starve" myself on those days. Mostly though, I like to be able to use some extra activity to balance things out so that I can live life normally, food wise, and not have to constantly and always eat leaves, twigs, and the occaisional can of tuna. Yes, I like to have my cake and eat it too, but really not a very big slice, and not all that often!

On the article linked above, could cardio be substituted for some of the metabolic training? Or done on some of the rest days? (I am looking at the first column of the schedule on the 2nd page. The one that has: lift heavy day, meta day, rest day, lift heavy day, meta day, rest day, rest day.)

heybales

I would think you could get cardio in there easy.

That routine is coming from perspective of already lifter has some 1RM they don't want to lose by doing circuit training with much less weight. So that is schedule to keep some heavy days in there, and let circuit being their cardio.

If you don't have big lifter maxes, then circuit training can just keep your maxes already, in which case get that cardio in the on the heavy days if desired.

tigerblue

Wondering if there will be any more advice. . . .

After planned maintenance for December, I have been eating very carefully to try to lose a bit again, but once again I am soooo frustrated! After over a week of staying true to the eating and exercise, I have put on another pound, and I am once again at my highest post-loss weight (132.8 lbs). Yes, part of it is hormones and water, but that is what I have been telling myself for 20 lbs now. Let's be real--I've not gained 20 lbs of hormonal water weight and held onto it for three years! ( and unfortunately I've not likely gained 20 lbs of muscle, either!).

Here is the frustrating part. I'm going to talk calories now, and I am talking total daily calories. Not calories after the exercise is removed, etc. In mid November I set my goal for maintenance (about 1550-1650 most days). I kept up my lifting three days a week and cardio three days a week routine. Over the Christmas week I stayed in control with my eating--most days ate about 1500-1600. cals. My goal was maintenance. But I was not very active. I did not work out, and I really sat around a lot! But starting December 29, when we returned from travelling, I have been working out again. And since New Years, when I re dedicated myself to eating at a deficit, I have eaten 1305, 1281, 1191, 1369, 1267, 1422, 1286, and Friday I ate at maintenance 1656. I have worked out hard about 30+ minutes every day but Sunday. I would estimate at least 160 cals burned each day (circuits with some cardio) and some days double that. If you want to look at net cals, do the math, but the numbers will certainly be low. My diary is open. Below 1200 net most days. And I seriously gained a pound?? But this is what has been going on for three years now,although after about two months of this, I will usually go back to maintenance out of frustration, which isn't really maintenance, since I gain even more.

I know there is some inaccuracy in logging, since it is sure not an exact science, but I've been pretty careful.

From August through years end I was very faithful to alternating lifting (not circuit training) days and cardio (usually running) days.

Since New Years I have gone back to a more metabolic style workout four days a week with pure cardio two days. I decided to do this because with the winter weather I've not been able to get out to run regularly, and thus I will need to get more cardio in somehow. I am such a wimp in cold weather! I will stick with this program until it is warmer. (March ?). Then I will go back to the regular lifting alternating with running. Unfortunately, I am exactly where I was weight-wise when I returned from vacation in July. But if I am truthful, I really have been eating closer to maintenance for most of October-November-December, so I really shouldn't be surprised. In my dreams I like to think 1550 is a deficit,though!

My bodyfat seems to be about the same as this summer. Hard to gauge that, though. Clothes fitting about the same, maybe just a tiny bit better.

But I really thought I would see a drop in weight since New Years, even a half pound or so, not a gain!

Sorry to be a broken record here, but I wish I would stop gaining. And a bit of a loss would be nice. I guess eating less might do it, ha ha!

Anyway maybe this will help you guys see what I have been dealing with, since basically this has been my pattern for months and months and months now.