A bit of an odd hypothesis regarding keto flu

sweetteadrinker2

I was thinking about how so many people get keto flu, and how awful it can be for them. Then I started thinking about my own experience: no flu, nada, zip, zilch. I was very very ill 4 years ago, I threw up for over a year 30+ times per day. Because of this, I was in ketosis (due to starvation, essentially). Could it be that the equipment to manufacture and use ketones was still present in my body? Has anyone been keto and is back for a second round after extended time off? Did you get the flu the second time?

DittoDan

The Keto flu is mostly a product of not eating enough of the three electrolytes:

• Sodium
• Potassium
• Magnesium

During Ketosis, the liver flushes out these electrolytes out in a greater/faster way than glycolysis (high carb eating).

Therefore, if you go out of Ketosis and want to get back in without getting the flu, then inoculate yourself with the three electrolytes.

Yes, as you get Keto adapted, there will be some enzymes and hormones that change in your body, there may cause some "flu like" symptoms. But, I don't think they are as severe when your electrolytes are correct. And I think that once your not "Keto Adapted", the hormones have to be rebuilt.

I never experienced the Keto Flu because I eased in the carb restriction, and I always eat a lot of salt (I love salt so much that I lick it by itself ~ without food!)

I hope this helps,

Dan the Man from Michigan
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kirkor

Nah, the unadapt phase takes about as long as the adapt phase. That's our whole "metabolic flexibility" thing.
You were just better hydrated and electrolyte replete the 2nd time.

baconslave

I had a couple headaches. I had done my research and drank salty broth and electrolyte drinks the whole time. After 3 days of the minor headaches, I felt like a million bucks! I'm pretty sure it hadn't been a full week and I started exercising.

Sweetteadrinker, people who were already lower carb tend to have less flu because it isn't such a huge jump in carb intake decrease. Less glycogen to clear out. I've heard easing in mitigates it. Since you were already ketotic, I'm betting that's why you had little trouble. Once you are in ketosis long enough to become fat-adapted, the machinery is there. You can be thrown out here and there, but it is easy to hop back in just exactly because of this adaptation. You don't have to retro-fit your biomechanisms for fat-burning. It's there. You haven't been screwed up enough to convert back to a full sugar-burner.

Or at least that's how I understand what I've read.

nicsflyingcircus

I think this is what it was for me. Pre-keto, I averaged low-carb leading up to it anyway, I think about 75g per day in the period preceding my switch to straight keto. Plus I love salt and took magnesium and potassium. No flu.

gsp90x

I've always had headaches and low energy (before during after keto) so.... I live keto flu it seems. The "energy" everyone seems to talk about is no where to be seen on my horizon. I'm eperimenting right now with increasing even more the 3E's. But the "equipment" is in your body no matter what. It's the process it uses and the glycogen depleating process that has to happen to switch it over. I'm with kirkor on this one. Interesting observation though.

wabmester

I'm in and out of ketosis pretty frequently. It comes from living on the edge with moderate carbs -- whenever I drop below 50g or so, I turn the ketostix purple. During the switch to ketones, it seems I get a mild headache, need a nap, and then I'm good. No trouble going in the other direction.

Hard workouts kick my butt when I'm making ketones, but not when I'm burning sugar.

kirkor

>whenever I drop below 50g or so, I turn the ketostix purple

ketostix don't work that way

wabmester

Can you expand on that, kirkor? We all produce some ketones. Most of them are excreted.

FWIW, I've only seen one study that included a comparison of blood ketones and urine ketones (in rats). They correlated pretty well.

Ah, here you go. Interesting data on protein levels, too.

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/300/1/E65.short

kirkor

The strips only measure waste ketones in urine, and depending on both your hydration levels and metabolic particularities, they can register both false negatives and false positives.
They can't be used to titrate your dietary carbs.
They are great for diabetics to monitor for ketoacidosis, but are just not useful for people looking to maintain nutritional ketosis.

wabmester

I only use them to confirm that I'm making ketones on a lowish carb diet. I realize they only measure excreted acetone, but I'm not sure why you'd think I'm getting a false positive.

I am not ketoadapted. My anecdote about intense exercise seems to confirm that. But if you consume a level of carbs below your body's needs for long enough, you should become glycogen depleted (or at least reduced). Once depleted, if you consume too few carbs to feed your brain, you'll need to make ketones to feed your brain.

I think the level of carbs in a hypocaloric diet needed to generated ketones can be higher than a hypercaloric diet, which I assume most bodybuilders are consuming.