Eat Bacon, Don't Jog
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I can only relate my personal experience. I know the benefits of weightlifting. I know the benefit of burpees. I find those things boring, and I do not enjoy lactic acid build up. I find it only slightly better than being waterboarded.
Running gets me outside. I vary my running routine. Slow, fast, hills, etc. I enjoy an occasional 5K with my family and friends. It's social, it gives me a goal, and it gives me a personal benchmark to improve upon. It works for me.
I also do bodyweight exercises, mostly for upper-body, but I find that running has improved my muscle tone more than the resistance has. Probably because I find running more enjoyable and sustainable, so I do it more consistently.
I started running just to keep up with my kid, who joined the cross-country team. We trained to run a 5K together. I keep running because I like how it makes me look and feel. Maybe I'll write a book about that. 0 -
Wow, this topic brought out the different mindsets. I don't know where I heard this quote originally, but "Diet is for weight loss. Exercise is for fitness." And something to go with it, "If you have to exercise to not gain weight, your diet is wrong."
And as to who might benefit? Someone like me. I've always been told that even the fattest person on the planet with bad joints benefits from walking. I even worked up to a fat girl jog before I injured a knee because, due to an number of different factors, I SHOULDN'T HAVE BEEN JOGGING...
Even more than that though is that I have Pelvic Organ Prolapse. That means than anything allowing gravity to pull on me in the middle can make my condition so much worse, and anything with jumping can blow out what remaining muscles I have. My physical therapist about panicked on me when I told her what I had been doing before this year so far. Her recommendation for my condition and various issues - stationary or regular biking (if being seated is comfortable) or swimming/water aerobics. I had ZERO idea that my POP could complicate it if I wanted to lift weights and stuff. Unless I dramatically improve my condition, SQUATS ARE FOREVER BANNED FOR ME.
Seriously. Squats worsen my condition. A condition I didn't even realize I had. It started with leaking a little urine when coughing or laughing, and well, I won't go into the gory details, but I'm a huge advocate for getting yourself checked for anything not seeming right down there, in front or back, man or woman. Pelvic Floor Dysfunction is nothing to shake a stick at...
I do agree though, not to let a book tell you not to do an activity you enjoy unless you have outlying conditions or find that it negatively affects your progress in health gains...0 -
A lot of food for thought here. (I think Food for Thought is the working title of my never to be written book on eating to improve your mind.) Particularly from FIT_Goat, wabmester and KnitOrMiss. I think I've decided to add another line to my "I don't diet, I eat" mantra. The addition will be "I don't exercise, I live."
Last year when I was lugging around an extra 65 pounds (mostly belly I think) I was obsessed with trying to find the right shoes and interval pattern so I could use my stair climber without my knees and feet killing me. In February, I spent time doing on-line searches trying to figure out how to properly log snow shoveling.
This past weekend I had to get the house & yard ready for a Memorial Day cook out. I was surprised at the end of one day that Fitbit reported I had climbed 25 flights of stairs. No twinges during or pain after. I was also surprised at the size of the pile of brush, downed tree limbs, whatever I had hauled to the roadside for pick up. Not surprised but pleased that there were no comments when I put a chicken leg & a burger on my plate and walked past the buns, potato salad & fruit salad. Everyone just accepts that that's the way Dad/Grandpa eats.
Rereading this before posting I realize it could be interpreted as a put down of those who jog or run or go to the gym. Please understand that is not my intent nor do I maintain that my way is the "right" way. If someone enjoys running I can understand that, I just don't share the joy. If someone wants to lift whether for muscle tone or vanity, that's fine. To me it's not fun, it's work.
Instead my intent is to say thank you. Last year at 67 I was looking at giving up my house and moving to a place on one floor with people to do the snow shoveling and yard work. Plus a life filled with joint pain and diabetes meds. This year at 68 I'm saying, "Hey, I can do this for a few more years" and my doctor is saying, "No meds for now." For that I'm extremely grateful and I attribute a lot of any success I've had to the support and advice I've found in this group. Thank you.0 -
That's terrific, Keith! So glad for your weight loss and vastly improved health! I'm 68 and working to do the same.0
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Exercise improves insulin resistance, which for the carb sensitive means an easier time losing weight and the more carbs you can tolerate (yeah clementines). Worth finding 30 mins in your day to at least get a walk in. When I jogged I stayed in keto at 75 grams of carbs. Not too shabby.0
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That's a great story, Keith. FWIW, my exercise "philosophy" before I started running was to do exactly what you're doing. Things like yardwork are excellent and much more productive than running, burpees, etc. We have about 200ft of fence along our property, and I clear the grass under the fence with a machete. That's about 100 squats combined with a killer arm workout. Unfortunately, I'd only do it a few times a year....0
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@knitormiss I too have Pelvic prolapse probs and while wandering around the net found this Lady Michelle Conway who is a physio in Australia. She does a monthly new letter which I get and she has a series of vids showing safe exercises for us sufferers. Thought you and any other ladies on here with similar restrictions to other kinds of exercise may be interested. The link is https://www.pelvicexercises.com.au/pelvic-exercise-guided-videos/0
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I didn't run this morning, but I did some of that nasty steady-state cardio. Took the dog for a walk.
It was a sunny morning, but the fog was still rolling in. A lone heron stood in the water.
We walked a little farther, and an eagle landed in a nearby tree.
There's no point to my story, really. But both the dog and I enjoyed the steady-state cardio walk in our own ways.
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jumanajane wrote: »@knitormiss I too have Pelvic prolapse probs and while wandering around the net found this Lady Michelle Conway who is a physio in Australia. She does a monthly new letter which I get and she has a series of vids showing safe exercises for us sufferers. Thought you and any other ladies on here with similar restrictions to other kinds of exercise may be interested. The link is https://www.pelvicexercises.com.au/pelvic-exercise-guided-videos/
That's a great resource, @jumanajane. Luckily, I've got a POP Physical Therapist here who is great. I've only been twice, and my initial evaluation determined that my muscle tone itself was abysmal, but my endurance was good, which meant I had a good chance of improvement. It's been maybe 5-6 weeks, and since we discovered that I needed an abdominal binder (belt/sheet wrapped strongly around the belly to support during exercises due to exceptionally weak abs, from underlying conditions and extended obesity plus pregnancy weakening and some other things), I've actually make some measurable progress. Not anywhere that I wanted, but I can tell improvements, period, which I didn't even know was possible! I hope you are making progress as well!! My individual exercises I didn't find on this list yet, but I haven't looked through all the videos obviously!0 -
I didn't run this morning, but I did some of that nasty steady-state cardio. Took the dog for a walk.
It was a sunny morning, but the fog was still rolling in. A lone heron stood in the water.
We walked a little farther, and an eagle landed in a nearby tree.
There's no point to my story, really. But both the dog and I enjoyed the steady-state cardio walk in our own ways.
Way prettier than a walk on a treadmill for sure!
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Exercise improves insulin resistance, which for the carb sensitive means an easier time losing weight and the more carbs you can tolerate (yeah clementines). Worth finding 30 mins in your day to at least get a walk in. When I jogged I stayed in keto at 75 grams of carbs. Not too shabby.
Most definitely. I look at it that way. It improves my mood, but it also lets me eat a bit higher in sugar.0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »jumanajane wrote: »@knitormiss I too have Pelvic prolapse probs and while wandering around the net found this Lady Michelle Conway who is a physio in Australia. She does a monthly new letter which I get and she has a series of vids showing safe exercises for us sufferers. Thought you and any other ladies on here with similar restrictions to other kinds of exercise may be interested. The link is https://www.pelvicexercises.com.au/pelvic-exercise-guided-videos/
That's a great resource, @jumanajane. Luckily, I've got a POP Physical Therapist here who is great. I've only been twice, and my initial evaluation determined that my muscle tone itself was abysmal, but my endurance was good, which meant I had a good chance of improvement. It's been maybe 5-6 weeks, and since we discovered that I needed an abdominal binder (belt/sheet wrapped strongly around the belly to support during exercises due to exceptionally weak abs, from underlying conditions and extended obesity plus pregnancy weakening and some other things), I've actually make some measurable progress. Not anywhere that I wanted, but I can tell improvements, period, which I didn't even know was possible! I hope you are making progress as well!! My individual exercises I didn't find on this list yet, but I haven't looked through all the videos obviously!
Me too, I'm very sorry to say. If you haven't had prolapse surgery, I hope you can avoid it. Thanks for the link, Jane. I will definitely use it.
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Glad you have a good therapist @knit or miss. I'm afraid I'm past help now and am waiting for surgery but hopefully these exercises, all the info available in these newsletters and the fact I can contact her directly will help in a positive outcome when I have surgery. Unfortunately here they don't have anything resembling specialist therapists let alone surgeons specialised in urogynaecology! Most people here have to leave by the time they are 60 so all the expertise tends to be obstetric. At 58 I can't get health insurance so we have to pay for everything and, boy oh boy, is it a growth industry here!!0
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wheatlessgirl66 wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »jumanajane wrote: »@knitormiss I too have Pelvic prolapse probs and while wandering around the net found this Lady Michelle Conway who is a physio in Australia. She does a monthly new letter which I get and she has a series of vids showing safe exercises for us sufferers. Thought you and any other ladies on here with similar restrictions to other kinds of exercise may be interested. The link is https://www.pelvicexercises.com.au/pelvic-exercise-guided-videos/
That's a great resource, @jumanajane. Luckily, I've got a POP Physical Therapist here who is great. I've only been twice, and my initial evaluation determined that my muscle tone itself was abysmal, but my endurance was good, which meant I had a good chance of improvement. It's been maybe 5-6 weeks, and since we discovered that I needed an abdominal binder (belt/sheet wrapped strongly around the belly to support during exercises due to exceptionally weak abs, from underlying conditions and extended obesity plus pregnancy weakening and some other things), I've actually make some measurable progress. Not anywhere that I wanted, but I can tell improvements, period, which I didn't even know was possible! I hope you are making progress as well!! My individual exercises I didn't find on this list yet, but I haven't looked through all the videos obviously!
Me too, I'm very sorry to say. If you haven't had prolapse surgery, I hope you can avoid it. Thanks for the link, Jane. I will definitely use it.
Avoiding surgery like the plague!! I'm 38, almost 39, and basically I was told that I'd have to have surgery again every 10 years or so and I was like, he!! no! So, me, the low maintenance whiny person went two years with a pessary, and just found out about 2 months ago that there is therapy for pelvic floor dysfunction - like tons of things. It was like the heavens opened up and dumped sunshine on me... It has been literally hellish pain with some of the exercises (my function was atrocious - I had to start BELOW level 1 exercises), or after effects (talk about not fun, try getting muscle cramps in your pelvic floor - where you can't massage....agony!)...but just knowing I'm already improving at least something is helping my sanity oh so much!0 -
jumanajane wrote: »Glad you have a good therapist @knit or miss. I'm afraid I'm past help now and am waiting for surgery but hopefully these exercises, all the info available in these newsletters and the fact I can contact her directly will help in a positive outcome when I have surgery. Unfortunately here they don't have anything resembling specialist therapists let alone surgeons specialised in urogynaecology! Most people here have to leave by the time they are 60 so all the expertise tends to be obstetric. At 58 I can't get health insurance so we have to pay for everything and, boy oh boy, is it a growth industry here!!
That makes me want to cry so bad, but I will tell you, I think you might want a second opinion if you can afford it, because my doctor, PA, and therapist all told me that you can (TMI WARNING FOLKS) literally have all your parts hanging completely outside your body and still not HAVE TO HAVE SURGERY. It is a case of personal preference and based on pain levels and complications whether you choose to have surgery. My first doctor told me radical surgery was necessary, and I got a second opinion. I'm so glad I did.
I guess I'm lucky that I live about an hour away from a major medical center that has a lot of specialties I didn't know existed!!0 -
Good for you and I bet other things are improving too!0
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annieboomboom wrote: »hog poopy. Exercises uses energy. Energy is what is used to fuel the body during exertion.
I do MUCH better losing while exercising than not. I know I am burning fat now, instead of carbs for the energy needed to work out.
Also, more muscle which burns calories and tones the body. Nothing worse than loose skin on the journey to losing weight.
Don't stop moving. Muscle weighs more than fat. Muscle on! Throw out the scale.
http://nymag.com/news/sports/38001/
That's Taubes' argument against the idea. He also covered it well in both his books. It's covered well by many other authors too.
Edit: It's five pages, and reading the whole thing is a really good idea. I'm not anti-exercise. I do plenty of it, when I want. But, it's not for weight loss.
In my opinion that's the weakest argument of Tabues' books.
Many researches show that exercise helps on regulating appetite.
Furthermore, how many overweight long distance runners do you know?
Yes, exercise is not necessary to lose/maintain weight (especially while low-carbing), but it definitely helps.
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What research?
How many thin long distance runners started off fat?
While your statements make a lot of intuitive sense, the research and real world doesn't provide the certitude you present them with.0 -
Gianfranco_R wrote: »annieboomboom wrote: »hog poopy. Exercises uses energy. Energy is what is used to fuel the body during exertion.
I do MUCH better losing while exercising than not. I know I am burning fat now, instead of carbs for the energy needed to work out.
Also, more muscle which burns calories and tones the body. Nothing worse than loose skin on the journey to losing weight.
Don't stop moving. Muscle weighs more than fat. Muscle on! Throw out the scale.
http://nymag.com/news/sports/38001/
That's Taubes' argument against the idea. He also covered it well in both his books. It's covered well by many other authors too.
Edit: It's five pages, and reading the whole thing is a really good idea. I'm not anti-exercise. I do plenty of it, when I want. But, it's not for weight loss.
In my opinion that's the weakest argument of Tabues' books.
Many researches show that exercise helps on regulating appetite.
Furthermore, how many overweight long distance runners do you know?
Yes, exercise is not necessary to lose/maintain weight (especially while low-carbing), but it definitely helps.
Again, interval and strength training have been shown to be superior in all those things. If you're going to work out for those benefits, you're better off doing intervals and strength training of some kind.
That doesn't mean you shouldn't go for a walk or jog or whatever out of enjoyment. If you enjoy it and it benefits you in other ways, then go for it, just realize that what and how much you're doing could be hindering your weight loss efforts.
I'm a fan of the way Mark Sisson puts it:
Move frequently at a slow pace (have a solid cardiovascular base, walk leisurely a lot, etc.; no, this does not include jogging or even speed walking, which he goes into detail about why he frowns upon these "chronic cardio" behaviors)
Lift heavy things (strength training)
Sprint (all out effort for a minute or two, once or so a week, when it feels good)
Play (literally: tag, ultimate frisbee, frisbee golf, basketball, do what your kids do, etc.)0 -
This is maybe the last published:What research?
How many thin long distance runners started off fat?
While your statements make a lot of intuitive sense, the research and real world doesn't provide the certitude you present them with.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25963104?log$=activity
here is a meta-analysis:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24174308?log$=activity
This is interesting for the method:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24305681?log$=activity
To say nothing about improvement of insulin sensitivity that also influences appetite...
As for the "real world", there are a lot of people who sadly gain weight when they stop exercising. Think about former athletes who often become fat...0 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »annieboomboom wrote: »hog poopy. Exercises uses energy. Energy is what is used to fuel the body during exertion.
I do MUCH better losing while exercising than not. I know I am burning fat now, instead of carbs for the energy needed to work out.
Also, more muscle which burns calories and tones the body. Nothing worse than loose skin on the journey to losing weight.
Don't stop moving. Muscle weighs more than fat. Muscle on! Throw out the scale.
http://nymag.com/news/sports/38001/
That's Taubes' argument against the idea. He also covered it well in both his books. It's covered well by many other authors too.
Edit: It's five pages, and reading the whole thing is a really good idea. I'm not anti-exercise. I do plenty of it, when I want. But, it's not for weight loss.
In my opinion that's the weakest argument of Tabues' books.
Many researches show that exercise helps on regulating appetite.
Furthermore, how many overweight long distance runners do you know?
Yes, exercise is not necessary to lose/maintain weight (especially while low-carbing), but it definitely helps.
Again, interval and strength training have been shown to be superior in all those things. If you're going to work out for those benefits, you're better off doing intervals and strength training of some kind.
That doesn't mean you shouldn't go for a walk or jog or whatever out of enjoyment. If you enjoy it and it benefits you in other ways, then go for it, just realize that what and how much you're doing could be hindering your weight loss efforts.
I'm a fan of the way Mark Sisson puts it:
Move frequently at a slow pace (have a solid cardiovascular base, walk leisurely a lot, etc.; no, this does not include jogging or even speed walking, which he goes into detail about why he frowns upon these "chronic cardio" behaviors)
Lift heavy things (strength training)
Sprint (all out effort for a minute or two, once or so a week, when it feels good)
Play (literally: tag, ultimate frisbee, frisbee golf, basketball, do what your kids do, etc.)
I'm not overweight
As for the chronic cardio, I'm not going into a debate whether it is better or not compared to other workouts.
Anyway, speaking about running, if you limit it to 40/50 minutes maximum you won't have the high level cortisol issue.0 -
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I'm someone that benefits from hearing that I don't need to be a jogger. I know this may be hard to believe but I've lived my entire life being told that I make excuses for not running and everyone is a runner I just have to try harder. I've had times in my life where my failure to be a runner has me convinced that I have zero drive and self-control. Jogging for me feels what I imagine cutting off a limb to feel like. When I quit trying to run about 10 years ago and started walking I was told "only fat people walk. You need to run." I effing hate running. Alright. So now you know my feelings on running before I go into this next thing.
I recently started doing research for orthopedic surgeons in Minnesota. Eesh. Take care of your body folks. In both ways. Don't be too hard on your joints. Jogging might build bone (I've never heard this) but it absolutely is hard on your body. I would strongly discourage people who don't enjoy running to find a low impact activity. Yes, 5Ks are all of the rage right now but don't let anyone convince you that you can't find other activities for heart health.
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Gianfranco_R wrote: »Dragonwolf wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »annieboomboom wrote: »hog poopy. Exercises uses energy. Energy is what is used to fuel the body during exertion.
I do MUCH better losing while exercising than not. I know I am burning fat now, instead of carbs for the energy needed to work out.
Also, more muscle which burns calories and tones the body. Nothing worse than loose skin on the journey to losing weight.
Don't stop moving. Muscle weighs more than fat. Muscle on! Throw out the scale.
http://nymag.com/news/sports/38001/
That's Taubes' argument against the idea. He also covered it well in both his books. It's covered well by many other authors too.
Edit: It's five pages, and reading the whole thing is a really good idea. I'm not anti-exercise. I do plenty of it, when I want. But, it's not for weight loss.
In my opinion that's the weakest argument of Tabues' books.
Many researches show that exercise helps on regulating appetite.
Furthermore, how many overweight long distance runners do you know?
Yes, exercise is not necessary to lose/maintain weight (especially while low-carbing), but it definitely helps.
Again, interval and strength training have been shown to be superior in all those things. If you're going to work out for those benefits, you're better off doing intervals and strength training of some kind.
That doesn't mean you shouldn't go for a walk or jog or whatever out of enjoyment. If you enjoy it and it benefits you in other ways, then go for it, just realize that what and how much you're doing could be hindering your weight loss efforts.
I'm a fan of the way Mark Sisson puts it:
Move frequently at a slow pace (have a solid cardiovascular base, walk leisurely a lot, etc.; no, this does not include jogging or even speed walking, which he goes into detail about why he frowns upon these "chronic cardio" behaviors)
Lift heavy things (strength training)
Sprint (all out effort for a minute or two, once or so a week, when it feels good)
Play (literally: tag, ultimate frisbee, frisbee golf, basketball, do what your kids do, etc.)
I'm not overweight
As for the chronic cardio, I'm not going into a debate whether it is better or not compared to other workouts.
General "you," not specific.
For those that are interested, and for a definition of "chronic" cardio, here's what I was referring to:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/case-against-cardio/
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-evidence-continues-to-mount-against-chronic-cardio/
Again, make note that we're not talking an interval program like C25K or similar things from people who know how to progress without overstressing the body, we're talking about the average Joe who thinks that the way to fitness is to spend 2 hours on a treadmill at 5mph (of which there are a great many, as evidenced by the number of treadmills, ellipticals, and bikes in a gym compared to other equipment, and even gyms where that's the only equipment).Anyway, speaking about running, if you limit it to 40/50 minutes maximum you won't have the high level cortisol issue.
I never said otherwise. In fact, you're saying pretty much exactly what I said earlier.0 -
I'm someone that benefits from hearing that I don't need to be a jogger.
The pundits who warn against jogging are simply telling you to do HIIT and weightlifting instead. I know a few people who did that instead of jogging, and they all stopped due to injuries. I don't personally know anybody who stuck with it, but I'm sure there are a few.
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You've already said this multiple times, pretty much everyone has said it. I think the important thing is to find something you enjoy. Keep the body moving. Take care of ourselves through movement and diet. There might come a time when being "cut" is my thing, I'm not there right now. I thoroughly enjoy Body Pump and Spin classes. I love every bit of it. It's hard work but I don't feel like I'm dying. The waterboarding comment made me laugh out loud because that's how I feel about running. I love biking - casually. Can barely get more chronic cardio than that! To each their own. I do think there's a place in this world for books like this and many others. It just further emphasizes that we are all individuals (wait did the market researcher just say that out loud?)0
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n=15 and all "healthy" males -- we have no data about what "healthy" meant from the abstract, we can safely assume it means not overweight or obese. It's also a 48 hour time period. Not exactly a long term study. While interesting, the sample size is ridiculously small and this doesn't really help support the idea that exercise helps weight loss or even appetite regulation. It only shows that for already healthy males, short term appetite doesn't change with exercise.Gianfranco_R wrote: »This is maybe the last published:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25963104?log$=activityhere is a meta-analysis:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24174308?log$=activity
Meta-analysis so already compounding error issues. But, it also shows only short term response to acute exercise. Short-term isn't well defined here. No information about actual calorie consumption or the weight changes of the populations studied.
n=15 lean [thin] healthy men. It's also about short term response to food. I can tell you right now that after exercise, I don't want to eat for a while. Yet, the weeks where I am most active, my overall calories are also higher. I might not be eating right away, but I am eating more across the whole week.This is interesting for the method:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24305681?log$=activityTo say nothing about improvement of insulin sensitivity that also influences appetite...
As for the "real world", there are a lot of people who sadly gain weight when they stop exercising. Think about former athletes who often become fat...
This doesn't prove that exercise was keeping them thin. What's amazing about all of these studies is that none of them actually show exercise helping people lose weight. That's what my original response was about. Exercise doesn't actually do much, if anything, for helping fat people become lean people. Already lean people staying lean? Well, maybe they exercise because they're lean and they're not getting fat.
The studies that exist, which mostly suck due to sample size and length, show anything from a minimal positive effect on weight loss to a minimal negative effect on weight loss. I don't think studies of 15 thin and healthy men and how their bodies react immediately after acute bouts of exercise is a good indicator of how an obese woman's body is going to react to chronic cardio over a month long period.0 -
n = 15 Why do these studies even get published?0
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I must be weird because I love to walk (pretty brisk pace but not dying, maybe 16-18-20 min miles if I slack). I can do it for an hour if I have my iPod on, and I don't get bored. It's usually just me and the old people powerwalking (I'm only 33). I do like to lift heavy weights, but once I'm down close to my goal weight. Lifting at this weight, I have a lot of excess skin that rubs and I pinch it on the weights
(used to be 294, lost 130+ lb as of today's weight).
I hate jogging/running. HATE IT. All I ever hear is, "Running is SO good for you!" but OMG I hate it. I can walk for an hour and feel great but jog for 15 mins and want to stab myself in the eye with a fork. My knees hurt.
I don't do it for weight loss, though. I do it for strength, because I actually LIKE it (most of the time), and it helps keep my blood sugar stable so I can even be around 50 g net carbs and lose just fine.0 -
The data from the National Weight Control Registry is interesting. These are all people who lost weight and maintained the weight loss for at least a year.
Only 1% report losing the weight from exercise alone.
But 90% of them exercise to maintain the weight loss! For an average of one hour per day!
The most common activity is walking, reported by 76% of the participants. Approximately 20% report weight lifting, 20% report cycling, and 18% report aerobics.
Obviously, some of the people do multiple exercises, but I'm still impressed that 20% of them lift weights. I guess I would be included in that category since I occasionally lift myself. It would be interesting to see how many did HIIT or lifting as their main exercise.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/82/1/222S.long
My advice for exercise is always the same as my advice for dieting: do what works for you.0
This discussion has been closed.