Ripping off the bandaid

kmac1196

So, in all the threads I'm reading, and the what to expects, they all are about slow increases over time to reset.

Is there any on what to expect when you just jump right to expected TDEE and how long to stay at first guess and rebound weight gain before true weight gain comes into play? I'd like to read them if there are.

I started off hoping to increase slowly...but from 1200 went to 1800 in a few days. If it helps, I only was at 1200 for 3 weeks. I'd been at 1700 ish for the vast majority of nearly 3 years with breaks here and there. In Feb, I tried a reset and was at 2100 for a few weeks.

Just curious. Thanks.

heybales

Well, normally if someone had a suppressed TDEE, down at whatever level they were eating, then for some number of days they would actually be eating in surplus.
So if eating 1300 was actually maintenance for months on end because of no weight change, and started eating 1800 out of the gate, there would be a 500 cal surplus.
So if it took the body a week to decide it would indeed speed up, you'd gain 1 lb of fat weight.
During that time you'd also be increasing glucose stores, so water weight from that too.

So it's not awful bad, usually a way to figure out how to eat the more, as some get stomach bloating and such.

So you didn't really make a huge change then - likely no problem.

Water weight increases is going to be first couple weeks, then those are done.
If your workouts start getting more serious now and causing damage, could have new water retain there for healing too.

So at least 4 weeks with valid weigh-in days to minimize known expected water weight fluctuations.
Then go for the 2 week 250 test as soon as you know the timing is good for not including expected water weight gains, may have to plan that one well.

kmac1196

Great. Thank you. I'll have to plan that one carefully, yes. I'm going to read and reread.

retirehappy

Check out MandaLeigh123's journey. She just jumped into it and has been reporting on it for a while. This update has links to most of her story.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10168177/week-11-update#latest

kmac1196

Thanks! I did find her a while ago. Love the updates there. Sounds like me. I just jumped right in. I don't expect a ton of rebound weight since I was up to 2200 ish in Feb so it hasn't been that long. Wish me luck.

kmac1196

So results for ripping the bandaid...up 7 lbs for the week. Should stabilize now that glycogen is full. Will report back. 2k cals this week.

heybales

Commented on someone's else too, and reminded myself of another common thing I usually fail to mention.

Usually eating more means eating more sodium, so more retain water there. Even if the % is the exact same healthy amount - it's more.

kmac1196

Could be...but I take a water pill (HTZ) so maybe not. Either way...I'm ok. I'm not going to die. LOL

Question about fit bit? I used to wear Body Media armband which I liked but it's so big and bulky and it's summer so.....do you guys think that the fit bit hr is as accurate as BodyMedia?

heybales

My opinion based on using both, and doing informal poll on MFP regarding the BMF - about 50% can have better accuracy with BMF if the workouts are easy.

The sensors that adjust your BMR that they use don't seem to work well for about 50% of people by my informal poll of at least 100 responders.
And then even for people they do work well for, the sensor's don't do well for decently vigorous exercise. If walking/running where it uses movement to mainly get the calorie burn than fine, otherwise, loses accuracy if just based on sensors.
And really bad if the sensors don't work well on you.

Fitbit assumes a BMR based on gender, height, weight, age - and at very overweight levels, will likely be inflated.
The step-based calorie burn for daily activity is pretty decent, as long as stride length is confirmed.
The HR-based calorie burn for exercise just depends on first accuracy of reading the HR, which varies from person to person and the level of intensity of exercise, and how well the HRM formula for calorie burn works for you.

But what are we talking about - the 23 hrs of the day outside of exercise, or the 1 hr of exercise?

kmac1196

Right...the 23 is more important overall than the 1.
I thought the newer fitbit HR used sensors, too...not just generic numbers.

I'm looking for close to exact numbers and I know I'm not going to get them. I'll just have to test out the numbers myself until winter when I can wear the body media again. LOL

heybales

Some models of Fitbit use HRM for during the exercise time, hence my comments above regarding HR-based calorie burn in general.

Even if the Bodymedia does work well for you with sensors, you can improve it's ability to adjust.
Because it does start with same stat-based BMR as MFP and Fitbit.
It then has expected sensor readings, and adjusts the used BMR to fit those.
But if the adjustment is too far off, it can't adjust enough.

Now I don't know about their personal stats now - do they allow you to manually set a stride length now for walking and/or jogging?

Because you can sure change the height to make them start with a BMR that is closer to a better calculated value - and then it has less movement to adjust to.

kmac1196

Hmmmm I don't think so. Not really sure, I'll have to look into it. What's funny is when I first started wearing it it was one average and then over time, the average lowered...now, I don't know if it's because I was trying to cut at the time and I really was lowering my TDEE because of deficit or it was getting more accurate over time. Not sure.

I've never found my maint. so I'm not sure if it was accurate for me at all. I'm working on finding that now. I just miss having the readings to go by daily, I guess. The fitbit is easy to read but if it's just giving me the same numbers as scooby calc with activity then why bother spending the money, you know?

retirehappy

kmac1196 wrote: »

Hmmmm I don't think so. Not really sure, I'll have to look into it. What's funny is when I first started wearing it it was one average and then over time, the average lowered...now, I don't know if it's because I was trying to cut at the time and I really was lowering my TDEE because of deficit or it was getting more accurate over time. Not sure.

I've never found my maint. so I'm not sure if it was accurate for me at all. I'm working on finding that now. I just miss having the readings to go by daily, I guess. The fitbit is easy to read but if it's just giving me the same numbers as scooby calc with activity then why bother spending the money, you know?

Because your TDEE will change daily and scooby calc or any other online calc can't do that, plus Fitbit sends you a weekly report of how you did each day, not only in burn, but your intake. I can see how much I do or not do every day, and if I want from the dashboard, hourly. I needed something to motivate me to just move more, not just when exercising but all those other hours in the day. Most days I am over 2300 but some days I can go as low as 1900. Big difference and I need to adjust my eating to that. That is the value for me anyway, ymmv.

heybales

Also - seasonal changes - if you have seasons where you are anyway.

Confirm you are correcting the Fitbit for exercise it should be corrected for.
Also, Fitbit is free once initial purchase - BodyMedia is monthly fee for usage.

But the BodyMedia would probably get you by for now.

kmac1196

Ya...we have seasons....all in one day. LOL I'm in New England. Near Boston....towards the Cape.

Free fit bit is always appealing. And ease of wearing it. But the accuracy thing gets me. I'll look into it. I have some $$ I earned on Amazon so the cost would be much less (almost free).

Retire happy...I have big swings like that on my rest days....very low since I'm sedentary those days and relaxing. But the rest of the week I'm high (2300-2700) according to past body media. Might be higher now. Don't know.

kmac1196

So update...avg daily cals 2900 aprox

Weight stayed exactly the same. LOL that never happens.

retirehappy

That sounds good to me.

kmac1196

I know!

I broke down and work the body media yesterday. Put it on after 6am. Burned 3145 It was an exceptionally busy day.

Sensors seem to be working good (.8 sleeping and 1.3 avg sitting watching tv). I'll gather a few weeks worth of data and see where I am.

mymodernbabylon

That's awesome detective work (and nice to know that you are burning a lot).

kmac1196

Thanks. Yesterday was no work day and just cardio and normal errands and stuff and burn was 2657. I've heard it takes a couple weeks for it to get to "know" you ?? We'll see

kmac1196

So interesting info....I updated body media info to say I'm maintaining and how active I thought I was...it spit out 2720 as target burn. Ok...I see that's based on formula.

Yesterday was a lifting day...about an hour and a half. And I house cleaned a bit. But no work or running around to speak of. Steps 10497. I burned a total of 2634. Which is close to estimated. Should I assume my metabolism is not surpressed? Or...did it not calculate my lifting accurately and I'm still surpressed?

heybales

Ya, lifting isn't going to be accurate. That one 1/8" square sensor for body heat isn't that good at determining how much energy you just spent doing weight lifting. Unless it was all tricep work where the sensor is.

kmac1196

Ah...ok....so I'll continue to collect data...I'm only just beginning now Week 1 was a gain, obviously. Week 2 was stayed the same. Week 3 is coming on Tuesday. I'll report back.

kmac1196

So regarding cals burned lifting.....yesterday was a normal day for me and I lifted. Burn from armband was 2713 (estimate from body media said it should be 2720 so I'm impressed with how close that was). So can I assume that the burn was actually more? The day before was a cardio day and burned 2824. My eating goal was 2900 which I've not been able to get to often....mainly around 2600 with a couple of high days.

heybales

Probably slightly more.

When you look at the chart of METS, the 0-3, and 3-6 vigorous ranges, though they may have labeled the chart something else now, and you could have adjusted the METS.

Does your workout time show up in there accurately for start and duration? Lifting would be vigorous.

kmac1196

It shows up but the whole thing isn't vigorous. Only 4 mins of it is. So I'll just continue to use it as a base. How often have you found it to be over estimating daily burn? I've heard lots of people outside of this forum say it does but in here most people say it underestimates. I know you've done some research/study on it....just curious.

heybales

For those where the sensors didn't work, it was overestimated. And that seemed to be about half that responded to my thread. So no wonder many would say over.

Especially if doing typical cardio stuff most would be doing.

The adjustment to BMR they used didn't go far enough down, and was still higher than sometimes tested RMR in a few cases.

So in your example, you got 4 min of MET time in range 3-6 x resting calorie burn - for however long the workout was.
That's not much credit.

kmac1196

Ah. Ok. So maybe the underestimating on things like lifting and afterburn from lifting and the over estimating from cardio et al will balance out here. I'll let you know my findings after a good month or 2 of data.

kmac1196

Ok...cals 2900 ish (guessed 2 days from party foods)....TOM right now and I'm up 1 lb.

I can't believe it. Really. LOL

Plan next week....same exact thing as this week. 2900 daily. 3 days lift (5x5 program with some accesories) and walk (LISS) 3 days for an hour. 1 day of rest. Work is 3 days (housecleaner...work alone...3 hours a day)...plus normal house stuff here and 3 kids and 2 dogs and husband.

I'll keep you posted.

retirehappy

Wow, 2900 calories, that is terrific.

I'm enjoy observing your journey. This stuff is life changing

kmac1196

So bodymedia seems to be lowering burn again (after wearing it for some weeks).

Last Weds 2634 This weds 2415 very similar days....lifted worked same evening activities. Last Thurs 2824..this Thurs 2676 Both cardio days (1 hour walk) and work day and similar evening.

Am I burning less or is the armband getting more/less accurate? Is the only way to tell when I weigh in on Tues for a full month of data?