Is it really just Calories In, Calories Out? What do you think?
LeenaGee
Posts: 749 Member
We see it all the time, discussions on the main forum that usually end badly with people being ridiculed and made to feel stupid and that is not what I want here. Let's have a proper discussion and be free to say what we think.
Is it as simple as CICO and exercise? Is eating at a deficit all that is required?
Me personally - I believe that CICO and exercise are only a part of a very large puzzle and there are so many other factors as well and those are the things I would like to discuss.
And if you want to say "sugar is evil" got for it!!
Is it as simple as CICO and exercise? Is eating at a deficit all that is required?
Me personally - I believe that CICO and exercise are only a part of a very large puzzle and there are so many other factors as well and those are the things I would like to discuss.
And if you want to say "sugar is evil" got for it!!
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Part of me wants to believe it's all CICO but then I see folks like my brother-in-law... He's about the same age as me, a couple of inches shorter and he is svelte despite the fact that each day, he eats twice as much as me. Seriously. He never gains an ounce. sigh...0
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Sugar is evil! At least, eating too much added sugar is. It bloats me, makes me feel awful and makes me ravenous for more, more, more sugar, usually in the form of cake and candy. I read food labels religiously, and while I don't JUST look at grams of sugar, if there are two versions of a product with similar calorie counts, I always go for the one highest in fiber and lowest in sugar.
I agree that CICO is part of a more complicated puzzle.0 -
Part of me wants to believe it's all CICO but then I see folks like my brother-in-law... He's about the same age as me, a couple of inches shorter and he is svelte despite the fact that each day, he eats twice as much as me. Seriously. He never gains an ounce. sigh...
I was one of those people. Ate my way through life and then two factors changed all that, or at least I believe that to be the care. One was a serious virus which slowed me down for a year or so and then 10 years later, menopause.0 -
Sugar is evil! At least, eating too much added sugar is. It bloats me, makes me feel awful and makes me ravenous for more, more, more sugar, usually in the form of cake and candy. I read food labels religiously, and while I don't JUST look at grams of sugar, if there are two versions of a product with similar calorie counts, I always go for the one highest in fiber and lowest in sugar.
I agree that CICO is part of a more complicated puzzle.
I definitely agree with you when it comes to sugar. Once I start I cannot stop eating the stuff and I am not a person who lacks self control. It is like a demon takes over.lol0 -
I agree that CICO is part of a more complicated puzzle.
I totally agree with this. Add hormones, or lack there of, and the picture changes. Throw in sugars and carbs and it's different again.
I have no self control when it comes to certain foods so I must stay away. Like LeenaGee, once I start I cannot stop. Yes it is like a demon.0 -
Simplistically, it is CICO. However, the calories out is the problem for me. It seems like the more you read the more conflicting information you get. That's the frustrating part for me. Metabolic differences hormonal changes age is also a factor..0
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I'm a believer in Ockham's Razor
Ockham's Razor paraphrased:
"the simplest or most obvious explanation of several competing ones is the one that should be preferred until it is proven wrong".
In other words, if you're putting on weight you're probably consuming more calories that you are burning. Too many calories is the simplest explanation.
Sugar is delicious.0 -
Here's my 2 cents worth.
I have done several different diet plans over the years and when I am not losing I take time to look at all the components.
Although CICO makes a good starting point...many other things seem to come into play for me personally.
I lose quicker if I drink 10 cups of water versus 8.
I lose more on a lower carb diet even if the calories are the same as another type of diet (and it seems to decrease those awful sugar cravings).
I also see a difference depending on the type of exercise I do even if they are comparable on the charts (which we all know are really just an estimate).
So my perspective is that we are all a bit different and maybe our personal needs are slightly different. Finding the personal mix that is best for your individual body may take a bit of trial and error, but with diligence we can each do it.0 -
downongreenacres wrote: »Here's my 2 cents worth.
I have done several different diet plans over the years and when I am not losing I take time to look at all the components.
Although CICO makes a good starting point...many other things seem to come into play for me personally.
I lose quicker if I drink 10 cups of water versus 8.
I lose more on a lower carb diet even if the calories are the same as another type of diet (and it seems to decrease those awful sugar cravings).
I also see a difference depending on the type of exercise I do even if they are comparable on the charts (which we all know are really just an estimate).
So my perspective is that we are all a bit different and maybe our personal needs are slightly different. Finding the personal mix that is best for your individual body may take a bit of trial and error, but with diligence we can each do it.
Totally agree with your 2 cents worth. ...and from time to time reassess what was working and change it up a bit to keep it working. (What I was doing just this morning.)0 -
I'm a believer in Ockham's Razor
Ockham's Razor paraphrased:
"the simplest or most obvious explanation of several competing ones is the one that should be preferred until it is proven wrong".
In other words, if you're putting on weight you're probably consuming more calories that you are burning. Too many calories is the simplest explanation.
Sugar is delicious.
I'm with @BigGuy47. CICO has worked for me. Simple, practical, easy to follow. And I like sugar, whether it is in fruit or candy or anything in between. Everything in moderation.0 -
I think CICO makes sense. But I think many things also add to the equation. I was doing great but couldn't lose belly fat and then I plateaued. Why you ask? Because I have started menopause! The b@#$h is slowing my roll. I am going to power through but I know that I am going to have to cut crabs down. No joy there. I have always done better on lower crab diets but hate them because I like pasta and bread as much as life itself. But as long as my hormones are misbehaving I am going to have to make some compensatory shifts. I am going to have to boost my exercise as well. the basic theory of CICO is correct, I think, BUT you have to make adjustments. but that is just what I think.0
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Darn those pesky hormones-they are messing with my life as well 0
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For a while I was seeing a dietician regularly. His philosophy was somewhat like CICO. He says calorie intake was more critical than calorie output. Unless you are exercising a tremendous amount, it is almost impossible to overwhelm a pernicious diet. Most of us cannot spend our entire day exercising. As a result, our food intake is the most direct method to tackle weight loss. He says exercise improved quality of life with a meridian of benefits but weight loss was often coincidental rather than direct impact.
His weight loss programs were designed for the individual rather than generalization. In my case, he suggested changing from three squares per day to six smaller meals so that I was never hungry. It is far harder to overeat when you're regimented like this. When I was following his program closely, I lost weight and I was never hungry... but I am terrible at meal planning so I struggled to maintain the regime.0 -
'"Most of us cannot spend our entire day exercising." How true is that!!
I love it when I do start a mini exercise regime and love the way it makes me feel (once the initial pain has passed) but I never sustain it. My work life is busy and at the end of each day the last thing I think about is going to the gym or working out.
It is more "pass me the wine" and kick off the shoes.
The best I can manage is to occasionally put on a yoga video in the morning and do some stretches. I just wish I was one of the people who love exercising.0 -
I don't like exercising either, LeenaGee. I do okay with walking because I go with my sister. I have some DVD's and as long as it is 25 minutes or less I am ok. Longer and I want to slit my throat. I exercise because I have to. But for me it's torture.
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I just don't eat sugar pasta and processed sausage type meat.
I eat low carb by veggies, meat, dairy.
It is a total health choice for me. Sugar has a place. On a 30 mile bike ride a squeeze pack of energy gel has sugar in it. Only 20g. Just enough to supplement my fat burning to keep speed and energy up
I like to keep my blood sugar low. Getting my 50 carbs from veggies is my way. Add some treadmill for fat burn and cardio for glycogen burn off.
It all works out.
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For me CICO has worked quite well. I stay away from most processed foods and added sugar but it's really a nutritional choice for me rather than a weight loss one. If it's helped my weight loss that would be an added benefit in my mind. I occasionally have a little dark chocolate or frozen yogurt and that seems to satisfy whatever sweet cravings I get. I chose 40% Carbs, 30% each of Fat and Protein. I experimented for several months trying to discover what satisfied me the most and seemed to have the best results for me.
I also exercise which has definitely helped me lose weight, partly because I can eat a little more since I'm burning a few extra calories, but mostly because I love the health benefits. Weight lifting has completely changed my body even at the age of 65. And I like being strong too.............LOL. I generally get to the gym 4 days a week and then take a couple of 3 to 4 mile walks with the dog. I also do a lot of swimming, especially in the summer.
I think the best thing is for everyone to find what works for them personally and if it stops working, try something new!0 -
For me CICO has worked quite well. I stay away from most processed foods and added sugar but it's really a nutritional choice for me rather than a weight loss one. If it's helped my weight loss that would be an added benefit in my mind. I occasionally have a little dark chocolate or frozen yogurt and that seems to satisfy whatever sweet cravings I get. I chose 40% Carbs, 30% each of Fat and Protein. I experimented for several months trying to discover what satisfied me the most and seemed to have the best results for me.
I also exercise which has definitely helped me lose weight, partly because I can eat a little more since I'm burning a few extra calories, but mostly because I love the health benefits. Weight lifting has completely changed my body even at the age of 65. And I like being strong too.............LOL. I generally get to the gym 4 days a week and then take a couple of 3 to 4 mile walks with the dog. I also do a lot of swimming, especially in the summer.
I think the best thing is for everyone to find what works for them personally and if it stops working, try something new!
I am so impressed that you get to the gym 4 days a week and weight lift. I know I should be doing something like that but you know ummm "can never find the time." It is so important to keep active and keep strength in your muscles and at 65 I think you are doing an amazing job. Are you retired or still working lulu?0 -
For me CICO has worked quite well. I stay away from most processed foods and added sugar but it's really a nutritional choice for me rather than a weight loss one. If it's helped my weight loss that would be an added benefit in my mind. I occasionally have a little dark chocolate or frozen yogurt and that seems to satisfy whatever sweet cravings I get. I chose 40% Carbs, 30% each of Fat and Protein. I experimented for several months trying to discover what satisfied me the most and seemed to have the best results for me.
I also exercise which has definitely helped me lose weight, partly because I can eat a little more since I'm burning a few extra calories, but mostly because I love the health benefits. Weight lifting has completely changed my body even at the age of 65. And I like being strong too.............LOL. I generally get to the gym 4 days a week and then take a couple of 3 to 4 mile walks with the dog. I also do a lot of swimming, especially in the summer.
I think the best thing is for everyone to find what works for them personally and if it stops working, try something new!
I am so impressed that you get to the gym 4 days a week and weight lift. I know I should be doing something like that but you know ummm "can never find the time." It is so important to keep active and keep strength in your muscles and at 65 I think you are doing an amazing job. Are you retired or still working lulu?
Thanks Leena. My husband and I own our own business and moved it home in 2006 so we've been working from here since then. We call ourselves semi-retired because we've been downsizing since then but we still work 5 days a week for the most part. We try to take Fridays off once or twice a month.
I get up early to go to the gym. I'm generally there by 5 or 5:30 in the morning. If I had to go after work I doubt I would be as consistent.
It will be two years in September since I started going to the gym this time around and I really love it! I never thought I would, but I do. 0 -
Yes and no. It is, for the most part. But it's also your individual metabolism, how your muscles burn calories, etc.0
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MostlyWater wrote: »Yes and no. It is, for the most part. But it's also your individual metabolism, how your muscles burn calories, etc.
^This^ I am currently on a diet break in an effort to get my metabolism on the right track. Working out 5 days a week (trainer, aqua classes, body pump) coupled with not eating enough (as in 1200-1400 cals) resulted in very little weight lost. I was eating below my BMR! Since I have been eating at my maintenance level, I sleep better, have the stamina for training and workouts, and am happier in general. I plan to begin a small deficit in August.0 -
Hormones messing with me too so I'm not expecting too much during this all. It's huge about allowing enough calories so that a person doesn't lose muscle, but yet burning a slow amount of fat so that it doesn't start to steal from the muscle. Trying to find that balance is tricky. It's so important to track the food...thanks, MFP, for making that easy. It's also important to keep track weekly and if something isn't working, change it. Exercise or calories out will help burn the fat faster but calories in is King.0
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CICO works. The problem is figuring out the metabolism, age, hormones, medical issues, genetics all play a role. Once I got it thru my fat head, "no, you can't eat massive quantities of crap", I made progress. You can't exercise a bad diet. For me though, some exercise is a requirement. Yes, I would rather sit on my butt and eat chocolate, but that is not going to get or keep me healthy. Drastic measure don't work long term, the body doesn't like it. As others have said, you have to do what works for you or you will fail. Sugar is a trigger for me, but I love it. I just have to be a big girl and keep it within reason. I am not a gym rat and will never work out for hours 5-6 times a week. I have to do what is right for me. I have found that middle ground that lets me enjoy the foods I love, do exercise that I don't hate, (that's as good as it gets for me.) and maintain my weight. I could describe what I do, but it might or might not work for someone else.
BTW, I love that we can have an intelligent, mature discussion here w/o the snarky comments of the main forums. Some things do get better with age.0 -
I found that cico helped but wasn't the be all end all. Exercise for me (lifting) really made a huge difference. I'm sure my metabolism is higher now than it was in my 20's.
Being type 2 diabetic also had an effect. I have not only become aware of watching my carbs, but I found more importantly is when I have my carbs. Higher carbs and protein before a workout gave me the most energy and gains, but also helped me in losing weight at a better pace.
Sugar for me has never really been an issue. I rarely eat desserts, only 1diet soda per month (if even that). I do have the odd treat but always get the smallest available or I share with my wife.
For me the biggest thing was cutting back on red meats, cheese and peanut butter.
Once I cut those back, my weight really started to drop off. I still eat them, just not anywhere near what I used to.
Overall I think lifestyle is the answer for me. It is so routine now that I hardly have to look at labels.0 -
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I too believe CICO is a big part, but of course metabolism, hormones etc., can also play a significant part. Finding activities that you love to do, can really help. I did not realize how much until my back screwed up and I cannot do some of my favourite activities. But I found I quickly starting using the back problem as an excuse to do nothing....when in fact I can still do some activities that get my heart rate up. So here I go again, have to hit the gym and use the reclining bike - gets the heart going and is easy on the old body
But tracking CICO is really important as we get older it's easy to forget how much is going in......! 0 -
Technically it can be reduced to CICO for weight loss. Health, fitness, and sustainable weight loss are other matters altogether. Maybe that's what makes this group different from MFP general.
Most of us have been there done that.0 -
I lost 90 calories in 10 months with CICO. I was doiing general logging, logging everything, but not being strict enough with my weighng apparently. Then I hit a 6 week plateau and I started tightening up my logging and I have lost another 6 pounds. I have been walking for the last 6 months or so, gradually buildng up my distance and speed. I think that has helped. I just started stretching and doing resistance bands, so hopefully that will help me tone a bit more, too.
I am sure that when another plateau hits, as I am sure it will, I will have to change it up as I agree that individual circumstances can really mess with you. I have been through chemo in the last 4 years (doing well now) and I have sever arthritis in my knee lmiting what kind of movement I can do.
Right now my focus is on weight loss, but I want to start firming and toning, not interested in becoming a weight lifter at this point. But, I believe it all plays a part.0 -
A calorie is just one property of a food substance. It does not address nutrient content, fiber, satiety, mineral content, glycemic index... So many other attributes to a piece of food.
To me CICO is an incomplete way of looking at food.
I treat my body like a chemistry set. It has been pretty amazing to see and experience the body transformation happen when taking more time to understand my nutritional options.
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