Keto questions
monikker
Posts: 322 Member
1) Net carbs or full carb count needs to be under 25? I find this one boggling, like how do you know that you're not throwing yourself out of keto if you count net carbs.
2) Fiber? I assume by counting net carbs you will get enough fiber, but if not counting net carbs I'm wondering if that would cause any issue. I'm not worried about not being able to poop (coffee makes me do that), just overall being healthy. I wonder if we have evolved to need fiber...?
3) Avoiding plant-based foods apart from sugary fruits seems counter-intuitive to me.
2) Fiber? I assume by counting net carbs you will get enough fiber, but if not counting net carbs I'm wondering if that would cause any issue. I'm not worried about not being able to poop (coffee makes me do that), just overall being healthy. I wonder if we have evolved to need fiber...?
3) Avoiding plant-based foods apart from sugary fruits seems counter-intuitive to me.
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Carbs under 100 seems to work for many
add some cardio
I'm sure others will share.
I don't have to go so low on carbs, but I do get plant based fibrous carbs
You can exercise off your carbs too. At the end of the day don't eat them or burn them off!0 -
Net carbs won't kick you out because fiber doesn't cause changes in blood glucose. Fiber won't cause any difference for your level of ketosis. That said, you don't need any fiber. I haven't had more than an incidental amount (way, way under 1 gram) in over a year. I eat no plant foods at all. You don't need them for health. If you like leafy green veggies, eat them. But, you don't need them.0
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I count net carbs in veggies at least as fiber doesn't really get entirely digested. While today I am following @FIT_Goat's example and consuming pretty much meat, I usually have enough fiber in my veggies to keep my fiber up, although no where close to the level "they" say it should be. The first month I had bathroom issues, but now it's pretty smooth but that's from eating fat really. Fiber just firms things up.
I haven't gone completely carnivore yet LOL. I love a plate of yellow squash, brussel sprouts, and broccoli drenched in butter or sauteed in bacon fat. YUM.
I also use ketostix to check for ketosis. Most days net carbs for me are 30 or less, sometimes more, but I've never gotten out of ketosis. YMMV really on how many you can have.0 -
Gotcha. Goat: How do you get enough micronutrients if you don't eat grass-fed animal products or veggies? I know you don't supplement but I think I'm going to get a good solid multi. Plus other stuff I like as well like fish oil. Think I will have a bit of lettuce and spinach, a small handful of berries here and there and call it a day. Also planning to try a cheesy cauliflower recipe. Oh and avocados. But anyway.
Also wondering about sweeteners, I know I've read that they can kick you out of keto despite having no carbs. Is this true for all sweeteners including the more supposedly natural ones like stevia and xylitol? Or is this only regarding ones like sucralose and aspartame? Is there any sweetener I can use that doesn't affect being in keto? I know I've read to subtract both fiber and sugar alcohols for net carbs. Thanks.0 -
I don't need fibre to poo, fat seems to do this for me.
I never really ate vegetables before keto, I'm not a fan of them. Blood work shows that I'm healthier than I have ever been, everything is looking perfect. My GP is very happy.
You can supplement of course. I'm sure a multi-vit won't do you any harm.
I adore avocados and mushrooms and happily eat 2 avo's a day when they are in season here. Those are the only plant based foods I really enjoy and probably really eat.
I hate stevia, I don't have any issues at all with aspartame kicking me out of keto. I only have it in coke zero on the odd occasion but drink a lot when I do.0 -
Gotcha. Goat: How do you get enough micronutrients if you don't eat grass-fed animal products or veggies? I know you don't supplement but I think I'm going to get a good solid multi. Plus other stuff I like as well like fish oil. Think I will have a bit of lettuce and spinach, a small handful of berries here and there and call it a day. Also planning to try a cheesy cauliflower recipe. Oh and avocados. But anyway.
Also wondering about sweeteners, I know I've read that they can kick you out of keto despite having no carbs. Is this true for all sweeteners including the more supposedly natural ones like stevia and xylitol? Or is this only regarding ones like sucralose and aspartame? Is there any sweetener I can use that doesn't affect being in keto? I know I've read to subtract both fiber and sugar alcohols for net carbs. Thanks.
Warning: The following is completely off-the-rails insane for most people. If you want, you can consider me crazy.
All the micronutrients a human needs for optimal health are abundant or superabundant in animal meat, even if you eat none of the organs. It's also in a form that is easy absorbed and utilized. If there's something you can't get from meat (e.g. vitamin C), it's not necessary for health. A lot of the RDAs are guesses and were generated under the assumption that people would be eating a mixed diet. A mixed diet has different micronutrient needs compared to a carnivore one. It's like iron, which is easily absorbed from animal meat but not from plants. In fact, plant foods may actually result in less iron being absorbed because they bind with it to make it unusable.
If supplementing makes you feel better about things, I wouldn't tell you not to. I doubt it's harmful to most people.
I don't know if sweeteners kick you out of ketosis, but they do negatively effect my personal weight loss. I had graphs posted where I did a before, during, and after show of what sweeteners does to my weight. More importantly, the more sweet things you eat, the more you keep the desire for sweets alive.
Also: Never subtract all of maltitol. It's not really 0 carb. It is about 0.5-0.75 grams of effective carbs per gram of maltitol. So, 12 grams of it would be 6-9 grams of blood sugar effecting carbs.0 -
Here is the combined chart. May was mostly sweetener free. June was at least one "carb-free" sweetened food daily. July was no more sweetened foods at all. You'll see that I was losing just fine. Stopped and packed on weight for June. And went back to losing in July. Calories went up in June, no doubt. But, not enough to account for the numbers completely.
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Some people go by total carbs, I've always gone by net carbs and been totally happy (and always in ketosis) that way. Some like FIT_Goat have tons of success without veggies, some find that they fall in love with all kinds of green veggies with this WOE.
I had lots of TMI pooping issues in the past, and Keto didn't fix them alone, I ended up in pelvic floor physical therapy for other issues (urinary primarily, but multiple things really) and eventually learned that my digestive problems were due to muscle tightness and bad habits, not my diet. Once I learned how to fix those things, I found that I don't need any fiber on keto to have things work perfectly. Fiber doesn't seem to hurt me either, as long as I don't wildly vary the amount of it that I'm getting. If I get 30g a day consistently, I'm fine and things work well, if I get 0g consistently, same thing (maybe a few days of adjustment when making a change, but otherwise, no problems). If I have 0g one day, 35 the next, 0 the next, 40 the next, etcetc, I do find taht I'm probably going to be a little uncomfortable.
Sweeteners are also a big YMMV thing, outside of Malitol. Malitol effects a lot of folks. But the lower glycemic index sugar alcohols like Erythritol and Xylitol, and things like aspartame or whatever, in some people they seem to cause cravings and cause problems, in others they don't. You can choose to experiment with them however you see fit, but if you find yourself stalling or having sugar cravings in a way that doesn't feel right for a low carber, try cutting them out. Or, try being strict at the start and cut them out right away, and then once you are comfortable with how things are going, see if you want to try adding something back in and see how it goes. Its all viable
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My advice is to tweek this woe to fit your lifestyle. Everyone's body is different and react differently to different foods. I love veggies so I eat them. I don't care about the carbs from them. I do stay away from fruit but I was never a big fruit eater. I also don't check my ketones. Honestly if I am losing weight, what does it matter. If I worried about all that I would decide this was too hard. So I just stay away from the bad carbs, I use Splenda, I drink a lot of water, I drink alcohol on occasion, and I don't get stressed out about it. Good luck.0
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Maltitol definitely kicks ME out of keto, I had forgotten about that stuff. It spikes my blood sugars much like cane sugar does, plus gives me the runs. Yay.
Erythritol has been fine for me weightloss wise, but I love the taste and eat too much of it when it is around.0 -
Net carbs won't kick you out because fiber doesn't cause changes in blood glucose. Fiber won't cause any difference for your level of ketosis. That said, you don't need any fiber. I haven't had more than an incidental amount (way, way under 1 gram) in over a year. I eat no plant foods at all. You don't need them for health. If you like leafy green veggies, eat them. But, you don't need them.
I do a day or two of carnivore and it does seem to do something magical
My body does not like it long term
I have had a crazy amount of exercise this past 3 days
I can feel a good pound steak in my dinner plans
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1) Net carbs or full carb count needs to be under 25? I find this one boggling, like how do you know that you're not throwing yourself out of keto if you count net carbs.
I tend to go with total carbs. Mostly out of laziness.
I usually keep my carbs under 30. Some days are 60, and some are 10.2) Fiber? I assume by counting net carbs you will get enough fiber, but if not counting net carbs I'm wondering if that would cause any issue. I'm not worried about not being able to poop (coffee makes me do that), just overall being healthy. I wonder if we have evolved to need fiber...?
I find the oils (coconut oil is powerful LOL) and nuts keep me moving MUCH better than fibre ever did.
3) Avoiding plant-based foods apart from sugary fruits seems counter-intuitive to me.
You don't need to avoid them. You can even do vegetarian keto. I tend to keep mine down to the equivalent of a salad, but I find going carnivore on occasion feels surprisingly good. I tend to feel my best when I keep carbs low.
For sweeteners, I use stevia in coffee (it's in a protein powder that I use) with no issues. I also have xylitol sweetened chocolate chips (about a tablespoon) a few times a week with some nuts. I do okay with it in terms of ketosis, but it can bump up my blood glucose a bit if I have more than a small amount.0 -
Ok so all carbs except fiber affect blood sugar/glucose, it's just that some carbs like those in cane sugar spike it way up more than others? Although I have no blood sugar problems, one of the appealing things about keto is getting all the insulin spiking junk out of my diet because I know that just makes me crave more and has a negative impact on the body.0
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More questions...I remember reading about coffee affecting blood sugar. Do all of you doing keto still drink coffee? Has it affected your keto status?
How long did it take you to stop missing or craving bread, grains, sweets?0 -
I drink coffee every work day and so far it hasn't affected anything. I sometimes use heavy cream, sometimes sugar free creamer, and always a few drops of liquid splenda. I've never had it throw me out of ketosis or negatively impact my blood sugar, but as mentioned artificial sweeteners are definitely a YMMV thing.
I've never heard of black coffee affecting anyone. Some ketoers drink bulletproof coffee, but as much as I love butter, I can't get past the thought of putting it in my coffee LOL.
Edit to add: It took me 4 weeks to kick the cravings completely. Occasionally now I'll get the random ones, but they are easily ignored. 0 -
If you are hypoglycemic, caffeine can burn any "sugars" through your system, causing drops. Well, I imagine this happens to everyone, but those who are hypoglycemic or more sensitive to blood sugar drops would notice this effect more. This is the only "blood sugar effect" I've heard of from coffee, without it having added stuffs.
I still have waves of missing things periodically, but the initial cravings for most of that stuff stopped in the first 1-6 weeks, depending on the item...0 -
Still drink coffee, I use splenda and heavy whipping cream. I still want cake and sweet stuff like that etc. don't think it'll ever go away. But I don't crave them so badly that I'd binge on them; no issues turning them down, which is nice.0
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@moniker, it took me about a month of being keto to see the desire for carbs to stop. I spent that month reminding myself that I was worth it. Now, I laugh at carbs! Lol! Also, it was the coffee syrup that had splenda in it that made me gain 18 pounds without any change in my keto diet otherwise! It's taken me right at three months for the effects to correct themselves (5 pounds left to go to my lowest), but gosh, I feel so much better again!0
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Karlotta was that because of the number of calories in the Splenda syrup? Not sure what else would have made you gain.
Anyone get bad moods and/or depression after switching to a keto regimen? I was reading that people with pre-existing depression issues have a hard time with such low carb intake. But I assume after adapting, the body will quite like the MCTs and good fats I'll be constantly giving it - I anticipate both a positive affect from those healthy brain food fats but also the cravings and irritability from ditching the carbs. I've had a long-term struggle with depression so I was a little concerned when I read that.0 -
I had a terrible time with moodiness when I started keto 6 weeks ago. The first week was almost euphoric as the scale drops then with week 2 came the moodiness After week three I seemed to balance out. Not sure if it was hormonal or the mental withdrawal from my favorite carby foods and snacks. I do suffer from depression and take medication but I find a low carb lifestyle really has helped lessen my depression.0
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@monikker, I'm not sure of the science behind it. But what I understand is that for me (with fibromyalgia too) the sucralose creates a state of inflammation, making the body retain water for protective measures. It's crazy how certain things can affect some people without them even realizing what's causing it. I'm glad I got the chance to figure it out at least. Otherwise I would still be clueless and bloated.0
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Karlotta was that because of the number of calories in the Splenda syrup? Not sure what else would have made you gain.
Anyone get bad moods and/or depression after switching to a keto regimen? I was reading that people with pre-existing depression issues have a hard time with such low carb intake. But I assume after adapting, the body will quite like the MCTs and good fats I'll be constantly giving it - I anticipate both a positive affect from those healthy brain food fats but also the cravings and irritability from ditching the carbs. I've had a long-term struggle with depression so I was a little concerned when I read that.
I think you need to compare between your mood while you're keto adapting and how things are when that has happened. Because things change in your entire body: your metabolism changes, the nature of your gut bacteria, enzyme usage, everything. Fat is a mood enhancer. But make sure you mind your electrolytes.
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@monikker, I'm not sure of the science behind it. But what I understand is that for me (with fibromyalgia too) the sucralose creates a state of inflammation, making the body retain water for protective measures. It's crazy how certain things can affect some people without them even realizing what's causing it. I'm glad I got the chance to figure it out at least. Otherwise I would still be clueless and bloated.
Sucralose is tied to inflammation and water retention
Interesting
I need to check that out
I may switch to occasional Stevia use.0 -
I did read this on a website, Gainsville Fibromyalgia treatment posts recommendations for fibromyalgia patients. This was in a list of foods to avoid which include all of the foods I have been able to eliminate. The author insists these recommendations will help the fibromyalgia sufferer. I'm proving it for myself, by accident, but at least I'm getting it!0
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Well, good news I suppose since I'm not planning to consume much sucralose.
Just wanted to say that today was Day 1 of my keto experience - Bulletproof coffee & lots of water in the morning, a mostly ground beef chili for lunch, tuna salad with greens for dinner, cream cheese & egg "pancakes" w/a few strawberries & half a Powerade Zero (crap I guess I did get some sucralose) for snacks. Finishing the day with water and chicken broth. I don't have much weight to lose but I feel really good as far as my mood and brain things are going. Thanks everyone.0 -
Sucralose is made from chlorinated sugar, which IMO sounds nasty. It gives me migraines, so apparently my body agrees. However, it appears to be the new "it" sweetener - so many of the foods that used to eat have switched to sucralose. Some have sugar and sucralose (what's the point in that?)! I have to read all the labels now, and have abandoned many of my old favorites.0
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Karlotta was that because of the number of calories in the Splenda syrup? Not sure what else would have made you gain.
Anyone get bad moods and/or depression after switching to a keto regimen? I was reading that people with pre-existing depression issues have a hard time with such low carb intake. But I assume after adapting, the body will quite like the MCTs and good fats I'll be constantly giving it - I anticipate both a positive affect from those healthy brain food fats but also the cravings and irritability from ditching the carbs. I've had a long-term struggle with depression so I was a little concerned when I read that.
I was moody and tired for about a week or so. Once I figured out that I needed more sodium, things improved hugely.0 -
I think most functions of our body are not an on/off switch, but rather a dimmer! From my understanding keto starts at >100g (net) carbs. The lower you go the more drastic it is. Personally I see no reason (or ability) to go much beyond the 50-100g zone.1) Net carbs or full carb count needs to be under 25? I find this one boggling, like how do you know that you're not throwing yourself out of keto if you count net carbs.
I'd be interested to see fiber intake from evolutionary point of view, since previous Homo- species used to eat nothing but vegetation. That was back when we were hairy though.2) Fiber? I assume by counting net carbs you will get enough fiber, but if not counting net carbs I'm wondering if that would cause any issue. I'm not worried about not being able to poop (coffee makes me do that), just overall being healthy. I wonder if we have evolved to need fiber...?
Ditto! I eat a lot of vegetables by packing them into smoothies. Considering I also lift heavy 3x/week, I think it works in terms of added carbs. Not that I'd have anything against carbs sourced from good vegetables anyway. I can't imagine eating too much over 100g net carbs a day with just vegetables, but that's me.3) Avoiding plant-based foods apart from sugary fruits seems counter-intuitive to me.0 -
I'd be interested to see fiber intake from evolutionary point of view, since previous Homo- species used to eat nothing but vegetation. That was back when we were hairy though.
Another line of evidence for the diet of H. habilis comes from some of the earliest cut- and percussion-marked bones, found back to 2.6 million years ago. Scientists usually associate these traces of butchery of large animals, direct evidence of meat and marrow eating, with the earliest appearance of the genus Homo, including H. habilis.
Homo erectus (which goes back almost 1 to 2 million years into our past) was well known for cracking open bones and eating out the marrow and scavenging animal foods. Stone tools also suggest that they used stones to cut meat.
Homo neanderthalensis (130k to 350k years into our past) are well recognized for their hunting and the amount of evidence left of their meat consumption.
Homo sapiens (190k years to present) are also well known for being hunter gatherers.
There's no evidence that the genus Homo ever ate "nothing but vegetation." Even if we go back further to Australopithecus africanus (which is 1.2 to 4 million years back), we find that there is evidence that they were opportunistic hunters and animal protein made up a small but recognized part of their diet.
In short, we've never been natural vegetarians/vegans. It's a commonly held belief that is pushed by the vegetarian side. If you want more information, I recommend the movie "The Perfect Human Diet" which can be streamed for free online. I'm not saying that everyone needs to go full carnivore, but there's a place for meat in a healthy human diet.0 -
OK I know it's been a long day for me but where did they get the "perfect humans" to eat?0
