Want to be a fat burner? Exercise!
wabmester
Posts: 2,748 Member
Mini-rant: the idea of people using a ketogenic diet to become "fat burning machines" makes me a little nutty. We're all capable of burning fat. And, of course, if there are no carbs available, you'll burn mostly fat.
But if you really want to be a fat-burning machine, you need to exercise. I finally found Volek's FASTER study. It's been out for months, and nobody told me!
Metabolic characteristics of keto-adapted ultra-endurance runners
Elite athletes. 10 low-carb vs 10 high-carb.
At rest (sedentary), the low-carbers burn a teeny bit more fat than the high-carbers. But during exercise, the difference is HUGE! Low-carbers burn 2-3X as much fat as high-carbers during exercise.
The study's worth a read if you're a science geek. Some interesting stuff about glycogen restoration effects of LCHF.
But if you really want to be a fat-burning machine, you need to exercise. I finally found Volek's FASTER study. It's been out for months, and nobody told me!
Metabolic characteristics of keto-adapted ultra-endurance runners
Elite athletes. 10 low-carb vs 10 high-carb.
At rest (sedentary), the low-carbers burn a teeny bit more fat than the high-carbers. But during exercise, the difference is HUGE! Low-carbers burn 2-3X as much fat as high-carbers during exercise.
The study's worth a read if you're a science geek. Some interesting stuff about glycogen restoration effects of LCHF.
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Replies
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Can't open it
And I really wanted to read it too. Been waiting on it for a while. 0 -
Link fixed. Try again.
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Could this be why I sometimes get brain fog after my lunch walks even when I'm getting 5-6 g sodium a day. Could it be I need more fat?0
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you have no idea how much I'm geeking out right now. I already have a giant list of questions. Weren't they going to do a similar study on strength athletes as well?0
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@auntstephie321, your body is designed to provide you with all the fat you need. Every gram of fat you eat is a gram less of body fat that you'll burn.
Exercise does increase ketone levels, and that + sweat will cause sodium losses. I need a sodium fix before and after runs, even at 100g carbs.0 -
@auntstephie321, your body is designed to provide you with all the fat you need. Every gram of fat you eat is a gram less of body fat that you'll burn.
Exercise does increase ketone levels, and that + sweat will cause sodium losses. I need a sodium fix before and after runs, even at 100g carbs.
It just doesn't seem to be working. So I thought maybe it's getting harder for my body to send the fat to my brain as I get smaller?1 -
Omg! Why does everything in the universe constantly keep telling me that I need to exercise at this point if I want to keep making progress?!?!
Quit telling me what I am trying so hard to ignore darn you!
I just cannot find any joy in any exercise. I don't wanna do not fun stuff! Ugh!7 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Omg! Why does everything in the universe constantly keep telling me that I need to exercise at this point if I want to keep making progress?!?!
Quit telling me what I am trying so hard to ignore darn you!
I just cannot find any joy in any exercise. I don't wanna do not fun stuff! Ugh!
Lol I'm the same way. It's really hard for me to get past a certain point without any exercise so I have to if I want to reach my goals
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auntstephie321 wrote: »@auntstephie321, your body is designed to provide you with all the fat you need. Every gram of fat you eat is a gram less of body fat that you'll burn.
Exercise does increase ketone levels, and that + sweat will cause sodium losses. I need a sodium fix before and after runs, even at 100g carbs.
It just doesn't seem to be working. So I thought maybe it's getting harder for my body to send the fat to my brain as I get smaller?
We're complex machines. Experiment to see what works for you, but it's probably not due to lack of fat, ketones, or glucose. You have low BP, right? That has health benefits, but it also has brain fog side effects. 0 -
I should also mention that we're really talking about the RATE of fat burning. The rate is much higher for low-carbers during exercise, but in terms of weight loss, I hate to say it, but CICO still matters. I might burn 500 kcal during a run. But I burn 600 kcal during sleep. 2
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So would this still be consistent then with the idea of fasted exercise maybe being more productive for burning body fat then as opposed to eating before? Makes sense to me, but who knows.2
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This says nothing about the need to work out, just that those who do endurance workouts and are fat-adapted get their energy from body fat easier than those who are sugar-burners. Am I saying this correctly, @wabmester?1
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Yes to both. Fasted exercise will burn a bit more fat, but this study noted that glycogen utilization and refilling was about the same in both groups.
The major point is that "fat-adapted" is almost meaningless for the sedentary, but it's hugely meaningful during exercise. If you're going to be LCHF, you might as well exploit it. 3 -
auntstephie321 wrote: »@auntstephie321, your body is designed to provide you with all the fat you need. Every gram of fat you eat is a gram less of body fat that you'll burn.
Exercise does increase ketone levels, and that + sweat will cause sodium losses. I need a sodium fix before and after runs, even at 100g carbs.
It just doesn't seem to be working. So I thought maybe it's getting harder for my body to send the fat to my brain as I get smaller?
We're complex machines. Experiment to see what works for you, but it's probably not due to lack of fat, ketones, or glucose. You have low BP, right? That has health benefits, but it also has brain fog side effects.
Dang it! The butter didn't help. 1 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I just cannot find any joy in any exercise. I don't wanna do not fun stuff! Ugh!
I'm with you as far as "I don't wanna do anything I don't wanna do" but is there nothing that appeals to you as "play", that is also exercise?
I barely get in any exercise that isn't "by accident".... but I definitely like to go out and play!0 -
The major point is that "fat-adapted" is almost meaningless for the sedentary, but it's hugely meaningful during exercise. If you're going to be LCHF, you might as well exploit it.
It's my understanding that LCHF is a huge advantage for endurance-type exercise, less so for intense (i.e. heavy weight) exercise.0 -
sault_girl wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I just cannot find any joy in any exercise. I don't wanna do not fun stuff! Ugh!
I'm with you as far as "I don't wanna do anything I don't wanna do" but is there nothing that appeals to you as "play", that is also exercise?
I barely get in any exercise that isn't "by accident".... but I definitely like to go out and play! "play" 1 -
sault_girl wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I just cannot find any joy in any exercise. I don't wanna do not fun stuff! Ugh!
I'm with you as far as "I don't wanna do anything I don't wanna do" but is there nothing that appeals to you as "play", that is also exercise?
I barely get in any exercise that isn't "by accident".... but I definitely like to go out and play!
Unfortunately, not really. Lol
Especially not when it's cold. Anything less than 60 is cold by my definition!
In the summer we go to a theme park pretty regularly and so that's a lot of walking. And standing. But it's the most consistent exercise I get for any stretch of time over the year.
I'm trying to develop new habits. Eating different was a breeze! Exercise is my weakness!2 -
sault_girl wrote: »The major point is that "fat-adapted" is almost meaningless for the sedentary, but it's hugely meaningful during exercise. If you're going to be LCHF, you might as well exploit it.
It's my understanding that LCHF is a huge advantage for endurance-type exercise, less so for intense (i.e. heavy weight) exercise.
Sort of. Endurance athletes like it because it delays "bonking" -- glycogen depletion.
But you've heard of the "fat burning zone," right? Everybody's muscles primarily burn fat during low levels of exertion, like walking.
LCHF extends that zone, so that higher levels of exertion also burn fat, where it would burn glycogen in sugar burners.
So even weight lifters will burn more fat. The more you exercise, and the higher intensity, the more fat you'll burn. That's the main difference between fat burners and sugar burners. Well, that, and the brain's metabolism.0 -
auntstephie321 wrote: »sault_girl wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I just cannot find any joy in any exercise. I don't wanna do not fun stuff! Ugh!
I'm with you as far as "I don't wanna do anything I don't wanna do" but is there nothing that appeals to you as "play", that is also exercise?
I barely get in any exercise that isn't "by accident".... but I definitely like to go out and play! "play"
What?? I have fun! With the snow I go out and get to see where the bunnies have been playing, I see where the wolf has gone, where the squirrels are... We see the winter birds (grouse are great for popping up outta nowhere and scaring the crap out of me) and marvel at how life goes on out there, even when it's been -30C and colder. I just love to be out in nature, no people or pavement or noise.
Every time of year there is a different story; babies being born, a different type of flower blooming... from the first crocus to the first ripe berry to the leaves changing colour...
gosh I hate sitting behind a desk for 8 hours a day!1 -
sault_girl wrote: »The major point is that "fat-adapted" is almost meaningless for the sedentary, but it's hugely meaningful during exercise. If you're going to be LCHF, you might as well exploit it.
It's my understanding that LCHF is a huge advantage for endurance-type exercise, less so for intense (i.e. heavy weight) exercise.
Sort of. Endurance athletes like it because it delays "bonking" -- glycogen depletion.
But you've heard of the "fat burning zone," right? Everybody's muscles primarily burn fat during low levels of exertion, like walking.
LCHF extends that zone, so that higher levels of exertion also burn fat, where it would burn glycogen in sugar burners.
So even weight lifters will burn more fat. The more you exercise, and the higher intensity, the more fat you'll burn. That's the main difference between fat burners and sugar burners. Well, that, and the brain's metabolism.
That, I hadn't heard before. Cool.1 -
sault_girl wrote: »auntstephie321 wrote: »sault_girl wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I just cannot find any joy in any exercise. I don't wanna do not fun stuff! Ugh!
I'm with you as far as "I don't wanna do anything I don't wanna do" but is there nothing that appeals to you as "play", that is also exercise?
I barely get in any exercise that isn't "by accident".... but I definitely like to go out and play! "play"
What?? I have fun! With the snow I go out and get to see where the bunnies have been playing, I see where the wolf has gone, where the squirrels are... We see the winter birds (grouse are great for popping up outta nowhere and scaring the crap out of me) and marvel at how life goes on out there, even when it's been -30C and colder. I just love to be out in nature, no people or pavement or noise.
Every time of year there is a different story; babies being born, a different type of flower blooming... from the first crocus to the first ripe berry to the leaves changing colour...
gosh I hate sitting behind a desk for 8 hours a day!
lol I know, I was thinking of a different kind of "play"
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auntstephie321 wrote: »sault_girl wrote: »auntstephie321 wrote: »sault_girl wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I just cannot find any joy in any exercise. I don't wanna do not fun stuff! Ugh!
I'm with you as far as "I don't wanna do anything I don't wanna do" but is there nothing that appeals to you as "play", that is also exercise?
I barely get in any exercise that isn't "by accident".... but I definitely like to go out and play! "play"
What?? I have fun! With the snow I go out and get to see where the bunnies have been playing, I see where the wolf has gone, where the squirrels are... We see the winter birds (grouse are great for popping up outta nowhere and scaring the crap out of me) and marvel at how life goes on out there, even when it's been -30C and colder. I just love to be out in nature, no people or pavement or noise.
Every time of year there is a different story; babies being born, a different type of flower blooming... from the first crocus to the first ripe berry to the leaves changing colour...
gosh I hate sitting behind a desk for 8 hours a day!
lol I know, I was thinking of a different kind of "play"
Well that's not a very outdoorsy type of exercise!0 -
sault_girl wrote: »auntstephie321 wrote: »sault_girl wrote: »auntstephie321 wrote: »sault_girl wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I just cannot find any joy in any exercise. I don't wanna do not fun stuff! Ugh!
I'm with you as far as "I don't wanna do anything I don't wanna do" but is there nothing that appeals to you as "play", that is also exercise?
I barely get in any exercise that isn't "by accident".... but I definitely like to go out and play! "play"
What?? I have fun! With the snow I go out and get to see where the bunnies have been playing, I see where the wolf has gone, where the squirrels are... We see the winter birds (grouse are great for popping up outta nowhere and scaring the crap out of me) and marvel at how life goes on out there, even when it's been -30C and colder. I just love to be out in nature, no people or pavement or noise.
Every time of year there is a different story; babies being born, a different type of flower blooming... from the first crocus to the first ripe berry to the leaves changing colour...
gosh I hate sitting behind a desk for 8 hours a day!
lol I know, I was thinking of a different kind of "play"
Well that's not a very outdoorsy type of exercise!
yeah I guess it would depend on how adventurous one is0 -
auntstephie321 wrote: »sault_girl wrote: »auntstephie321 wrote: »sault_girl wrote: »auntstephie321 wrote: »sault_girl wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I just cannot find any joy in any exercise. I don't wanna do not fun stuff! Ugh!
I'm with you as far as "I don't wanna do anything I don't wanna do" but is there nothing that appeals to you as "play", that is also exercise?
I barely get in any exercise that isn't "by accident".... but I definitely like to go out and play! "play"
What?? I have fun! With the snow I go out and get to see where the bunnies have been playing, I see where the wolf has gone, where the squirrels are... We see the winter birds (grouse are great for popping up outta nowhere and scaring the crap out of me) and marvel at how life goes on out there, even when it's been -30C and colder. I just love to be out in nature, no people or pavement or noise.
Every time of year there is a different story; babies being born, a different type of flower blooming... from the first crocus to the first ripe berry to the leaves changing colour...
gosh I hate sitting behind a desk for 8 hours a day!
lol I know, I was thinking of a different kind of "play"
Well that's not a very outdoorsy type of exercise!
yeah I guess it would depend on how adventurous one is
All I gotta say is, watch out for poison ivy and mosquitoes.
True story. 2 -
baconslave wrote: »auntstephie321 wrote: »sault_girl wrote: »auntstephie321 wrote: »sault_girl wrote: »auntstephie321 wrote: »sault_girl wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I just cannot find any joy in any exercise. I don't wanna do not fun stuff! Ugh!
I'm with you as far as "I don't wanna do anything I don't wanna do" but is there nothing that appeals to you as "play", that is also exercise?
I barely get in any exercise that isn't "by accident".... but I definitely like to go out and play! "play"
What?? I have fun! With the snow I go out and get to see where the bunnies have been playing, I see where the wolf has gone, where the squirrels are... We see the winter birds (grouse are great for popping up outta nowhere and scaring the crap out of me) and marvel at how life goes on out there, even when it's been -30C and colder. I just love to be out in nature, no people or pavement or noise.
Every time of year there is a different story; babies being born, a different type of flower blooming... from the first crocus to the first ripe berry to the leaves changing colour...
gosh I hate sitting behind a desk for 8 hours a day!
lol I know, I was thinking of a different kind of "play"
Well that's not a very outdoorsy type of exercise!
yeah I guess it would depend on how adventurous one is
All I gotta say is, watch out for poison ivy and mosquitoes. True story.
OH NO lol that's awful0 -
@auntstephie321, your body is designed to provide you with all the fat you need. Every gram of fat you eat is a gram less of body fat that you'll burn
@wabmester Am I reading this right?? It comes across as eat less fat to burn more fat.
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Christine_72 wrote: »@auntstephie321, your body is designed to provide you with all the fat you need. Every gram of fat you eat is a gram less of body fat that you'll burn
@wabmester Am I reading this right?? It comes across as eat less fat to burn more fat.
Yeah, not exactly in sync with the HF aspect of LCHF, eh?
Yes, it's true in the short term. In the longer term, satiety matters, and if fat intake makes you less hungry, that's important.
Volek has done other studies, and he believes (as I do) that the primary weight loss mechanism of low-carb is via reduced appetite. He and Phinney recommend increasing fat intake if you want to stay ketogenic during maintenance, not so much for weight loss.0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »@auntstephie321, your body is designed to provide you with all the fat you need. Every gram of fat you eat is a gram less of body fat that you'll burn
@wabmester Am I reading this right?? It comes across as eat less fat to burn more fat.
Well your body has to pull it from somewhere if you are in a deficit. If you are eating at a deficit, your body will pull it from its resources. That ties in with the comment that it still ultimately comes down to CICO0 -
Thanks guys. My brain is spinning right now lol
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