Official diabetes diet misinformation - any candidates for the Darwin Awards?
Replies
-
Darwin Award nominee. These parents of T1D kids that think not eating carbs is too hard and makes you have zero childhood but diabetes complications are ok since they've already conceded that they are inevitable...
7 -
OMG!
Which are kids more likely to thank a parent for when they're old enough to reflect - good health, or having had the "privilege" of becoming addicted to candy, doughnuts, and chocolate milk (and the hefty doses of insulin, weight gain, etc. that come with it)?
5 -
OMG!
Which are kids more likely to thank a parent for when they're old enough to reflect - good health, or having had the "privilege" of becoming addicted to candy, doughnuts, and chocolate milk (and the hefty doses of insulin, weight gain, etc. that come with it)?
I seldom go to WalMart and when I came in the story I went to the right (bakery) and to be deli in the back. I could have filled a cart full getting on one of each item that was nothing but white flour, sugar and dyes. There was nothing cheap about the price either. I picked up a half gallon of Half and Half for $4 and 12 boiled eggs for $4. $8 would not have bought much of the junk carb stuff I mentioned. I still am shocked how I was killing myself one bite at a time for so many years. Hey I see some that smoke and using oxygen at the same time. Addictions can lead to strange behavior for sure.2 -
Clearly the only way to eat low carb is to buy the low carb, grain containing processed foods at the store.
Apparently if your celiac you can't possibly eat any low carb breads. You're all out of luck! There couldn't possibly be a way to easily search for a way to make bread without grains. I mean it's not like there's a vast resource at our finger tips where we can find literally anything within seconds by searching any term!
2 -
Verging on child abuse.5
-
Playing devil's advocate for the carb-y moms, they're probably operating on what they've been told by doctor's and dietitians. Its definitely their responsibility to do the research but it all seems to contradict itself.2
-
It sounds like someone doesn't realize that a low carb diet will prevent lows in the long-term. It becomes difficult in the short term as basal rates are adjusted. Once the T1 is fat adapted and get their basal rates dialed in, lows become infrequent5
-
"Managing diabetes sustainably entails boosting insulin function, not depriving the body of starch and sugar from healthy sources like unprocessed starchy foods and fruits. There is evidence showing that unprocessed plant foods including starchy foods and sweet fruits actually improve insulin performance, making them ideal for preventing and managing diabetes."
http://m.huffingtonpost.co.za/asunta-simoloka/here-are-the-downsides-to-a-lchf-diet-that-you-have-to-consider_a_21642272/
Thx, @123sind.0 -
Oh good God alive....
Don't tell me. The next sentence reads,
"In unconnected news, it has now been established that the best way of continuing the family line is for mothers to marry their eldest sons. Evidence shows that Eldest sons and mothers are inexorably linked via genes, thereby proving that a familial coupling is by far the most favourable option if one wishes to produce related heirs."3 -
AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »Oh good God alive....
Don't tell me. The next sentence reads,
"In unconnected news, it has now been established that the best way of continuing the family line is for mothers to marry their eldest sons. Evidence shows that Eldest sons and mothers are inexorably linked via genes, thereby proving that a familial coupling is by far the most favourable option if one wishes to produce related heirs."
You sooooo got this!
(But is it truly unconnected?)0 -
Not if the mother irons his shirts and starches his collars, no....1
-
What does that have to do with bananas?
In unrelated news, I'm just realizing how depraived I was as a kidd. I mean, I'm depraved on account I'm deprived.0 -
...Although it might be easier if she uses resistant starch. From Green bananas.
Depraved and deprived. Who could have known one vowel's distance could make all the difference?0 -
AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »...Although it might be easier if she uses resistant starch. From Green bananas.
Depraved and deprived. Who could have known one vowel's distance could make all the difference?
Chk out Officer Krupke from West Side Story.
0 -
AlexandraCarlyle wrote: »Depraved and deprived. Who could have known one vowel movement could make all the difference?
There, I fixed it for ya.
4 -
This content has been removed.
-
Hmm. I don't know. The fact that I'm a food addict-in-denial or clueless idiot doesn't mean you should be treated like one....3
-
Yes, @RalfLott but sadly (in my experience with the British variety of 'idiot') I know what our resident Doc means.
I've said before that I have been asked by customers and colleagues how on earth I and my H managed to lose the weight and get fit and healthy and when I explain how we did it, I get all the protests and weak-willed responses which all seem to begin with "Oh I couldn't POSSIBLY give <insert sh1tty-carb here> up!"
So, idiot, stay fat and unhealthy then!
They all want the miracle cure without having to put in the effort, using the will-power and making the 'sacrifice' (which of course, as we all know, ends up not really being a sacrifice at all...). They want the solution without having to go through the work.
A recent visit to a hospital - a place where nursing and medical staff are on hand to get you back to health and keep you there - revealed that 4 different cafes and eateries sold ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that didn't have a shedload of carbs with it.
Sandwiches, cold pasta salads, taco wraps, bread rolls, Take-away sushi portions, chocolate bars, chips, high-sugar drinks, 'zero sugar' sodas... Nothing, but nothing was purely protein.
If a health establishment can get it so wrong, but also promote and encourage the consumption of carbs - what hope Doctors of actually reversing the trends??
3 -
I think that's right. Most people won't want to change their way of eating. I didn't want to. I skated around LCHF for a year before actually doing it. Thinking about the switch was way worse than the actual change of diet.
I just get mad at doctors when they either a.) tell you information that will hurt you due to their ignorance or b.) they don't offer the helpful information that they do know about because they believe no one will do it... That's almost worse.
2 -
No one can casually glance at the contours of any specimen of humanity and know what all dwells inside or whether wise counsel will be heeded today, tomorrow or never..... It's a crime to withhold it, especially in the face of all we've been, er, fed over the course of our money-spending lifetimes.6
-
If it is accidentally and ignorantly withheld, then Doctors - just like us - need educating and re-educating. Some - like us - will willingly take counsel and change their route. Others - like us - may well be more difficult to persuade....
If it is wilfully and deliberately withheld, you can bet your bottom dollar, pound, euro, yen or Rand - it's a financial incentive sufficient in amount, offered and proffered (in all likelihood), by the pharma guys....1 -
I've mentioned my sister before and how stubborn she is to even attempt a single simple change even in baby steps.
For example, she drinks only regular soda and sweet tea and never water or anything unsweet or diet.
I simply suggest to switch to diet... "but it tastes bad". So I suggest mixing 75% regular to 25% diet and gradually get to all diet... "that's weird. And I just don't want to drink diet. It's gross!"...................... FFS!!!
Today I'm with her while we visit our Dad. This talk happens again after she says she refuses to take her metformin and won't even take the D3 and magnesium her doctor told her to take. I asked what will it take before you make even this 1 simple change? What has to happen? A heart attack? A stroke? Lose a foot? (Neuropathy is just starting btw) she shrugged her shoulders....
I told her husband that when they remove her foot to keep it in a jar next to a bottle of diet soda so she can be very clear as to which one is actually gross and also next to a bottle of regular soda so she's fully aware of what she bought with it!
I don't hold back anymore8 -
I'm going to defend doctors here. Just a little bit.
I'm a doctor. I'm also a type 2 diabetic. 12 years now. I gave myself DM2 by basically "living on sugar" for my entire life. When I finally got DM2 I tried to fight it with a calorie restricted low fat diet and exercise. I believed the ADA nonsense. I "poo-pood" Atkins. I was an educated (wrongly) idiot.
Last year I discovered Atkins and LCHF. Long story short. I'm at goal weight bad my blood sugars are totally normal.
Now I'll defend doctors.
When I go into a convenience store pretty much everything is off the menu with the exception of pork rinds, sour cream, nuts, and the sausages and hot dogs. In a grocery store only some of the food sold on the periphery is OK. Almost everything in the isles is off limits.
Restaurants, meetings, and parties are always a problem.
Most diabetic patients don't want to put in the work (LCHF + exercise). They want a pill (or a shot). They are surrounded by crappy food. All the time. This is the food environment in which most Americans live.
Only very few patients are able and WILLING to shun probably 95% of the food products available to them.
OK. That's my pathetic attempt to defend my colleagues.
@tsazani - I have to agree with you here, for the most part. Nutrition, particularly updated nutrition, is not a standard part of the medical curriculum. My understanding is that most folks get 1 class to make 1 semester worth of education in this arena. And that, as you said or implied, most patients are rarely compliant with doctor instruction, and it's far easier to get them medication compliant if you don't take away their favorite indulgences!!! It is sad but true.
But rather than label the patients as purely being unable and unwilling to do this, I think it helps to link back the neuro-chemical compulsion that is driven for dopamine, particularly when a food that has created a dopamine response previously is viewed, thought of, or even smelled. My understanding is that fat, carbs (sweet or starchy), and some level of sodium create the perfect trifecta of dopamine reaction - so french friends, some breads, doughnuts, cakes, etc. It is why even the mention of a food like this can be a downfall for most.
I know it has been said that keto can help with this, that abstaining from all starches, all sugars, and most sweet foods - artificial or otherwise, is required to break this connection, but there has to be something else. I know not everyone is wired this way - some avoid the dopamine issue altogether, but those of us susceptible - keto alone, sans sweeteners, was not enough for me. One major dopamine trigger and I began the slow fall to Hades.
And whenever someone has tried to avoid those foods, they became anxious or depressed or what-have-you, or absolutely unable to avoid them, so that has created a knee-jerk fear response for most patients. When they say, "I could never give up XYZ," it makes me wonder why. "It makes me sad..." "It is the only food that makes me happy..." or "every time I give it up, I get the shakes, get anxious, or get depressed," etc. I wonder if would couldn't add something, a supplement, a different food, or timing, etc., to blunt the edge of that for them to suddenly make things seem somehow possible???
Anyway, sorry to dump another rabbit hole idea here, but I strongly believe that it is fear and such within a patient and lack of compliance that drive doctors to not focus on nutrition because it has the least compliance and success within the average patient... So another chicken and the egg situation, no?8 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »I'm going to defend doctors here. Just a little bit.
I'm a doctor. I'm also a type 2 diabetic. 12 years now. I gave myself DM2 by basically "living on sugar" for my entire life. When I finally got DM2 I tried to fight it with a calorie restricted low fat diet and exercise. I believed the ADA nonsense. I "poo-pood" Atkins. I was an educated (wrongly) idiot.
Last year I discovered Atkins and LCHF. Long story short. I'm at goal weight bad my blood sugars are totally normal.
Now I'll defend doctors.
When I go into a convenience store pretty much everything is off the menu with the exception of pork rinds, sour cream, nuts, and the sausages and hot dogs. In a grocery store only some of the food sold on the periphery is OK. Almost everything in the isles is off limits.
Restaurants, meetings, and parties are always a problem.
Most diabetic patients don't want to put in the work (LCHF + exercise). They want a pill (or a shot). They are surrounded by crappy food. All the time. This is the food environment in which most Americans live.
Only very few patients are able and WILLING to shun probably 95% of the food products available to them.
OK. That's my pathetic attempt to defend my colleagues.
@tsazani - I have to agree with you here, for the most part. Nutrition, particularly updated nutrition, is not a standard part of the medical curriculum. My understanding is that most folks get 1 class to make 1 semester worth of education in this arena. And that, as you said or implied, most patients are rarely compliant with doctor instruction, and it's far easier to get them medication compliant if you don't take away their favorite indulgences!!! It is sad but true.
But rather than label the patients as purely being unable and unwilling to do this, I think it helps to link back the neuro-chemical compulsion that is driven for dopamine, particularly when a food that has created a dopamine response previously is viewed, thought of, or even smelled. My understanding is that fat, carbs (sweet or starchy), and some level of sodium create the perfect trifecta of dopamine reaction - so french friends, some breads, doughnuts, cakes, etc. It is why even the mention of a food like this can be a downfall for most.
I know it has been said that keto can help with this, that abstaining from all starches, all sugars, and most sweet foods - artificial or otherwise, is required to break this connection, but there has to be something else. I know not everyone is wired this way - some avoid the dopamine issue altogether, but those of us susceptible - keto alone, sans sweeteners, was not enough for me. One major dopamine trigger and I began the slow fall to Hades.
And whenever someone has tried to avoid those foods, they became anxious or depressed or what-have-you, or absolutely unable to avoid them, so that has created a knee-jerk fear response for most patients. When they say, "I could never give up XYZ," it makes me wonder why. "It makes me sad..." "It is the only food that makes me happy..." or "every time I give it up, I get the shakes, get anxious, or get depressed," etc. I wonder if would couldn't add something, a supplement, a different food, or timing, etc., to blunt the edge of that for them to suddenly make things seem somehow possible???
Anyway, sorry to dump another rabbit hole idea here, but I strongly believe that it is fear and such within a patient and lack of compliance that drive doctors to not focus on nutrition because it has the least compliance and success within the average patient... So another chicken and the egg situation, no?
Yes!
But... (yes, here it comes), there are some medications that can help with cravings (such as Victoza and Symlin).0 -
Victoza (like Trulicity) seems to work by causing the pancreas to release more insulin to help lower blood sugar when it is high. The problem with that is that if you are insulin resistant, this creates a feedback loop of excess hunger with starvation and nutrient deficiencies and all that. Since most diabetics are IR first...??? I just don't see how burning out your pancreas to produce more when your body is massively inefficient at using what is in the body helps...
Reading Symlin is scary! It stops the liver from releasing glycogen, so your body can't self-regulate glucose...it slows digestion - which while it allows the body to absorb more from the food can also cause other digestive issues...and it messes with your brain to have you eat less. So you're eating less, but it's taking longer to digest, and the body can't release glycogen to help??? Major all caps underlined risks of hypoglycemia. Showing that it MUST be used with insulin, in a very specific way. and that each time you use it, you must have at least 30 grams of carbs and 400 calories or something... That's a whole lot of scary, easy to go wrong stuff...
But I guess the realities of living with diabetes is scary too. I just don't like anything messing with the few things my body might be doing right or reasonably well... Is it less scary to you than that? I mean, I know everything has risks, but sheesh. @midwesterner851 -
Symlin (amylin) does not stop the liver from releasing glycogen. It decreases the amount of glycogen released, but does not stop it altogether.
It slows stomach emptying, but the biggest reason it decreases hunger is its effect on GLP-1 receptors.
Within the family of incretin mimetics, Symlin works most quickly and is on the 'short-term' side. Let's say I know that I always over-eat if I go to X restaurant. If I take Symlin before I eat at X, then I'll eat less.
Like insulin, amylin is a hormone normally made in the pancreatic beta cells. Unlike most people, I do not have these cells and do not make this hormone on my own. Nonetheless, GLP-1 agonists can (and do) help those who are not type 1's. Symlin could be a good match for type 2's; and I'll agree it isn't ideal for non-diabetics.
Symlin isn't scary to me, but it is clear to me that the 30g of carbs suggested is to prevent hypoglycemia. Since I am so carb-sensitive these days, I think there is some benefit (for me) with a much smaller dose of carbs. It's tough for a drug manufacturer individualize something like that, though.
Among GLP-1 agonists, Saxenda is the same drug as Victoza except it is prescribed for non-diabetics and in higher doses.4 -
@midwesterner85 - Thanks for the explanation. The main website I visited for it said that it did stop the liver from releasing glycogen, which is a red flag for me, but I absolutely will take "on the ground" experience far and above what some piece of paper says. It sounds like a fantastic option for you to employ!
And yes, the 30 grams of carbs/calorie suggestion is absolutely related to preventing hypoglycemia, and I understand that for the "average user" that is probably a really good marker. I'm glad to know that you can adjust the dosage better to yourself...
Do you credit the exercise or diet more for helping you re-sensitize to carbs?0 -
KnitOrMiss wrote: »@midwesterner85 - Thanks for the explanation. The main website I visited for it said that it did stop the liver from releasing glycogen, which is a red flag for me, but I absolutely will take "on the ground" experience far and above what some piece of paper says. It sounds like a fantastic option for you to employ!
And yes, the 30 grams of carbs/calorie suggestion is absolutely related to preventing hypoglycemia, and I understand that for the "average user" that is probably a really good marker. I'm glad to know that you can adjust the dosage better to yourself...
Do you credit the exercise or diet more for helping you re-sensitize to carbs?
It's all diet. When I say I'm carb sensitive, I mean that carbs have more of an impact on BG than in the past. It isn't something I see as a benefit.1 -
This content has been removed.
-
LCHF first. Exercise second. Generic metformin third. Brand name Glucophage fourth. Additional meds fifth.
If you know what you are doing, medical cannabis can be an incredible tool to lower IR. Stress and poor sleep will increase you IR. Improving stress and sleep are forgotten contributions to lower IR.
Bupropion (generic wellbutrin) can be a great med to curb carbs cravings.
1. Any idea as to which generics are best tolerated?
2. Any carb-addicted T2Ds you would not recommend try wellbutrin?0
This discussion has been closed.