Official diabetes diet misinformation - any candidates for the Darwin Awards?
Replies
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Check out this video on Tedx Purdue! The title says it all:
Reversing Type 2 diabetes starts with ignoring the guidelines Sarah Hallberg TEDxPurdueU
It a perfect outline for a Ketogenic diet (even though she never says the word Ketogenic) for curing a diabetic, and she shows how the ADA guidelines are just plain wrong and crazy.
Enjoy,
Dan the Man from Michigan
Keto / The Recipe Water Fasting / E.A.S.Y. Exercise Program
How I got Off of Diabetic Prescriptions Drugs Since I Started Keto
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I vote for margaritas as a healthy food group!! "Prevents scurvy!!" "Energizes!" "Aids in stress reduction!!"
lol, tongue-in-cheek5 -
Impressive. Maybe you could get a staff writer gig with the ADA!0
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mandycat223 wrote: »While I'm not diabetic, I do have some very definite opinions on the topic of medical professionals and nutrition. (To summarize: They are clueless.) In the 15 years I've been dealing with Crohns Disease, not ONE SINGLE person has ever even mentioned the connection between what we put in our mouths and what happens in our digestive tracks, apparently unrelated topics. For all any of them know, I may have been sustaining life all these years on Little Debbie Dingdongs and Skittles, washed down with margaritas.
Almost all of the doctors I have had contact with want to give a drug/medication for everything. They want to treat symptoms. Example, my daughter was experiencing awful upper and lower GI issues. The doctor gave her all sorts of medications for the symptoms and never sought to find out the cause. I did my investigation and found that my 14 year old was sneaking and binge eating sugary foods. I took the sugar out of her diet and lectured her on the perils of sugar to her system and amazingly all her symptoms went away. I don't know why, but she cannot handle sugar.1 -
This is exactly why I'm so glad I found this board and this WOE. When the doctor ever sent me to a nutritionist who gave myself and my husband a pamphlet (the same one they've been handing out for at least 10 years now) that said most of what's in that article, that was it for me. When I told her that this is how I've been eating for 10 years now, with no improvement, she said I must be cheating. I haven't looked back.
I watch my Mom go from doctor to doctor. Each one putting her on low calorie, low fat diet. After each diet she would gain back the weight and even more. She kept getting heavier and heavier. She got type 2 diabetes and all sorts of stomach problems. She bragged to me today that she weighed less than 200 pounds and she is only 5'4". She's 83 and almost bed ridden. God love her she keeps on trying.
I've been telling her about my LCHF diet. If I'm successful maybe she will try it.2 -
mandycat223 wrote: »While I'm not diabetic, I do have some very definite opinions on the topic of medical professionals and nutrition. (To summarize: They are clueless.) In the 15 years I've been dealing with Crohns Disease, not ONE SINGLE person has ever even mentioned the connection between what we put in our mouths and what happens in our digestive tracks, apparently unrelated topics. For all any of them know, I may have been sustaining life all these years on Little Debbie Dingdongs and Skittles, washed down with margaritas.
Almost all of the doctors I have had contact with want to give a drug/medication for everything. They want to treat symptoms. Example, my daughter was experiencing awful upper and lower GI issues. The doctor gave her all sorts of medications for the symptoms and never sought to find out the cause. I did my investigation and found that my 14 year old was sneaking and binge eating sugary foods. I took the sugar out of her diet and lectured her on the perils of sugar to her system and amazingly all her symptoms went away. I don't know why, but she cannot handle sugar.
Kudos! What a favor you are doing for your daughter to enlighten her at such a young but impressionable age.
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KetoGirl83 wrote: »Yes, that's standard advice. They don't seem to notice that it does NOT work.
My grandmother died of diabetic complications, that's what she ate all her life. Bland, tasteless, boring, depressing food, until she was nothing but skin and bones and had to make an effort to eat. She never cheated, not even at Christmas or birthdays. No matter what everyone else was eating, she had her own food. Still died after having first a foot, then a leg, amputated. When I got the same advice I said no, thank you.
I am SO MAD at the lies being spread around by doctors and diabetes "educators" that should know better, and so sad for all the people trying their best and still getting worse every day.
It is just infuriating.
I am only one person, but at this point in my life, I am pretty sure I'm not very unique in any respect. If LCHF produced a significant, near-immediate improvement in my BG and lipid profile, there must be millions in the same boat.
Yet sources most of us would have in our first circle of trusted references tell us to load up with carbs. This includes not only the NIH, but Mayo Clinic and Consumer Reports.* Eegads!
*The ADA was never in that tier to start with, but it's got the same stripes.
WebMD, sorry to report, is also on the list of false friends. (Prof. Volek cited WebMD as one of the usual suspects in a recent LCHF lecture available on Youtube.)
Here's what WebMD has to say about "The Basics of a Healthy Diabetes Diet"What Is the TLC Diet for Diabetes?
If you have high cholesterol along with diabetes, your doctor will probably recommend the TLC (Therapeutic Lifestyle Changes) plan.
The goal is to lower your cholesterol level, drop extra weight, and get more active. That helps prevent heart disease, which is more common when you have diabetes.
On the TLC diet, you will:
[*] Get no more than 7% of your daily calories from saturated fat, 10% or less from polyunsaturated fats, and up to 20% from monounsaturated fats (like plant oils or nuts).
[*] Keep carbs to 50%-60% of your daily calories.
[*] Aim for 20-30 grams of fiber each day.
[*] Allow 15% to 20% of your daily calories for protein.
[*] Cap cholesterol at less than 200 milligrams per day.
As if these "tips" weren't already a sugary, keto-busting disfavor all by themselves, WebMD goes on to add:Can You Have Sugar?
You might have heard that people with diabetes shouldn't have any table sugar. While some doctors say that, others take a more forgiving view.
Most experts now say that small amounts of the sweet stuff are fine, as long as they're part of an overall healthy meal plan. Table sugar does not raise your blood sugar any more than starches, which are found in many foods.
Remember that sugar is a carb. So when you eat a sweet food like cookies, cake, or candy, swap it for another carb or starch (for example, potatoes) that you would have eaten that day. In other words substitute, don't add. Ultimately, the total grams of carbohydrates matter more than the source of the sugar.
Account for any food swaps in your carbohydrate budget for the day. Adjust your medications if you add sugars to your meals.
If you take insulin, tweak your dose for the added carbs so you can keep up your blood sugar control as much as possible. Check your glucose after eating sugary foods.
Conflict of Interest?
When I turned off my ad-blockers, the above "Healthy Diabetes Diet" page at WebMD was literally surrounded by fancy video ads for Invokana.
Invokana blocks renal absorption of glucose - and may be of diminished commercial value if we carb-shunning T2Ds no longer have excess glucose prowling around our kidneys.
(Hmm. I didn't happen to notice any ads for books from Drs. Volek, Phinney, Bernstein, etc...... )
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Just FYI, these ADA numbers are just guidelines. Something so variable as diet and activity level for a person are not going to fit in quite so well.
FYI, canagliflozin (INVOKANA) blocks renal Reabsorption of glucose in the kidneys, blocking the normal compensatory mechanisms of glomerular filtration. Quite a revolutionary and breakthrough mechanism that has numerous advantages over past/current mechanisms in T2DM. Being investigated for use in type 1 DMs right now.
Whether Sodium Glucose Ligand Transporter -1 inhibitors are useless in carbohydrate less diets is unknown. There are compensatory mechanisms to create glucose and these meds work at the final point of elimination in contrast to alpha glucosidase inhibitors which work at the initial point of glucose absorption (saliva/carbohydrate breaking enzymes)...AGIs would be pretty useless in keto.
...what were we discussing now? Extreme tangent2 -
my husband went low carb when he was first diagnosed and kept a food log. We were waiting for the diabetic counsellor appointment. We went to the first appointment where he received exactly the advice given above. 65 carbs at each of 3 meals and 30 carb at each of two snacks. He asked about low carbs and it was dismissed. They refused to look at the 3 weeks of food log. I refused to go back for any following appointments. My husband went 3 more times. Unfortunately, he followed their advice for 2 years before our doctor's office saw the light and recommended low carb. We haven't looked back since. It was simply illogical to eat that much carb when we knew that starches drive sugars. I refused to go along with the counsellor's suggestion of half a cup of orange juice (we had cut out juice some time before and I saw no reason to add it back) since orange juice was what I was taught offer in the case of ketoacidosis. Just didn't make sense at all for T1D to drink it daily. And we have confused our friends and family who only want to help. First, he eats a little of the starches but must watch fats, then he eats starches and must eat on time, then he doesn't eat starches and sugars and doesn't care about eating fats, and eating on time, not so important because he isn't as hungry and we are more used to fasting. ARRRRGGHHH. When he had it right to begin with! Three years until the right track and Blood Sugars are falling. At least it was only 2 years.5
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dasher602014 wrote: »my husband went low carb when he was first diagnosed and kept a food log. We were waiting for the diabetic counsellor appointment. We went to the first appointment where he received exactly the advice given above. 65 carbs at each of 3 meals and 30 carb at each of two snacks. He asked about low carbs and it was dismissed. They refused to look at the 3 weeks of food log. I refused to go back for any following appointments. My husband went 3 more times. Unfortunately, he followed their advice for 2 years before our doctor's office saw the light and recommended low carb. We haven't looked back since. It was simply illogical to eat that much carb when we knew that starches drive sugars. I refused to go along with the counsellor's suggestion of half a cup of orange juice (we had cut out juice some time before and I saw no reason to add it back) since orange juice was what I was taught offer in the case of ketoacidosis. Just didn't make sense at all for T1D to drink it daily. And we have confused our friends and family who only want to help. First, he eats a little of the starches but must watch fats, then he eats starches and must eat on time, then he doesn't eat starches and sugars and doesn't care about eating fats, and eating on time, not so important because he isn't as hungry and we are more used to fasting. ARRRRGGHHH. When he had it right to begin with! Three years until the right track and Blood Sugars are falling. At least it was only 2 years.
Most folks here probably take it as self-evident that not all diabetics are the same, but providers often make no effort to figure out if there are significant individual variations at play. For example, there's no reason your food log should have been ignored on account of whatever "the guidelines" or other holy grail dictated at the time.
And after so many of us have completely flipped our approaches to lipid, blood pressure, glucose and insulin management over the years, one might expect a little less conviction from providers when they utter mantras instead of providing individualized advice.
And who knows how long it will take for the effects of the low-fat dogma to fade?
In many institutional settings (conferences, social events, hospital cafeterias, etc.), there's often not much to choose from beyond coffee, tea, and ice water.
For example, here's a typical (and cheap) mid-morning snack from the slim pickings at the last conference I attended. (Cans of sugar-spiked iced tea and soft drinks were available all day.)
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@DittoDan , the more I read about obesity research over the last 150 years, the more I want to punch some of these 'scientists' and 'doctors' in the face. It's like it's easier to blame the obese for their condition, and write it off as a character defect, rather then treat the problem. We had the keto/Adkins type diets since the 1800s, and they WORKED, in clinical studies, every time, but always got laughed out of town.
I so agree with you and in line behind you to punch them and dieticians and nutritionists. The last nutritionist I went to recommended fruit veggies, lean meats and no fat...protein bars, fiber bars, etc...things loaded with carbs. I was hungry all the time... and what little weight I lost was gained right back.1 -
The "Fix It and Forget It Diabetic Cookbook"...... They have recipes for bread pudding, rice pudding, and tapioca pudding that have 25+ grams of sugar per portion. This book says "with the American Diabetic Association" on the cover.
Even though it was a present to me from my daughter when she was 11, I will be giving this book to my local library.0 -
The "Fix It and Forget It Diabetic Cookbook"...... They have recipes for bread pudding, rice pudding, and tapioca pudding that have 25+ grams of sugar per portion. This book says "with the American Diabetic Association" on the cover.
Even though it was a present to me from my daughter when she was 11, I will be giving this book to my local library.
I hadn't even thought about ADA-branded cookbooks.
A campfire might be a better home for your book than anywhere someone else might read it!
A quick look around Scribd and Amazon for similar ADA carb-rich recipe collections revealed exactly what you would have guessed. For example, the ADA's "Diabetes Comfort Food Cookbook" has entire chapters on pasta dishes and desserts and includes such glucose-spikers as:-
Ambrosia (19g carbs, 15 sugar per 4 oz) and
Spaghetti Carbonara (36g carbs per serving, using low- or fat-free ricotta and half-and-half)
The top comment at Amazon says:The carb counts in this book are WRONG. Some are seriously wrong. My 12 year old daughter is newly diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. I got this book for her and she was grateful to have something with carbs listed, so she could plan her insulin shots and meals. She picked a recipe with black beans and rice, which had carbs listed at 6 g per 1 cup serving. She was so excited she could have two cups for 12 g. I stopped and looked at the meal, which was comprised entirely of rice with some black beans and spices and thought the count seemed wrong. Cooked rice AND black beans have carb counts of 43 g per cup. She started crying when I told her the book was wrong. She had one cup, gave herself appropriate insulin for 43 g and her later blood sugar checks made us glad we didn't believe THIS COMPLETELY INACCURATE CARB COUNT.
These gems are definitely getting into the tournament.
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The real puzzler is.... how many of us having given ourselves diabetes, pre-diabetes, or blood sugar issues BECAUSE we ate the way we were told?5
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Panda_Poptarts wrote: »The real puzzler is.... how many of us having given ourselves diabetes, pre-diabetes, or blood sugar issues BECAUSE we ate the way we were told?
Yes, it would be interesting to know the answer!
It's got to be a LOT of people. In event, hundreds of thousands (if not millions) more than the ADA will ever acknowledge
(Like silly me, who ate low-fat for 15+ years, thinking I was doing my heart a favor. All of sudden, my BG was into diabetic range and my A1c confirmed it. Damn! Joke was on me. Fortunately, low-carbing has kept me off insulin.)
I hope we have learned a thing or two, but I wonder. The leading proponents of every diet from Paleo to Popcorn (and the faithful in their flocks) still speak as if they alone have the keys to nutritional heaven....3 -
The "Fix It and Forget It Diabetic Cookbook"...... They have recipes for bread pudding, rice pudding, and tapioca pudding that have 25+ grams of sugar per portion. This book says "with the American Diabetic Association" on the cover.
Even though it was a present to me from my daughter when she was 11, I will be giving this book to my local library.
@motown13 please don't do that. In the library it will be available to spread misinformation to others. I love books but in cases like this I'll open an exception: just bin it, shred it for compost or use it to start a campfire. The less it goes around the better.
::flowerforyou::4 -
KetoGirl83 wrote: »The "Fix It and Forget It Diabetic Cookbook"...... They have recipes for bread pudding, rice pudding, and tapioca pudding that have 25+ grams of sugar per portion. This book says "with the American Diabetic Association" on the cover.
Even though it was a present to me from my daughter when she was 11, I will be giving this book to my local library.
@motown13 please don't do that. In the library it will be available to spread misinformation to others. I love books but in cases like this I'll open an exception: just bin it, shred it for compost or use it to start a campfire. The less it goes around the better.
::flowerforyou::
OK, just for you.... but only because I forgot it when I went to the library with 10 other books to donate.
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KetoGirl83 wrote: »The "Fix It and Forget It Diabetic Cookbook"...... They have recipes for bread pudding, rice pudding, and tapioca pudding that have 25+ grams of sugar per portion. This book says "with the American Diabetic Association" on the cover.
Even though it was a present to me from my daughter when she was 11, I will be giving this book to my local library.
@motown13 please don't do that. In the library it will be available to spread misinformation to others. I love books but in cases like this I'll open an exception: just bin it, shred it for compost or use it to start a campfire. The less it goes around the better.
::flowerforyou::
OK, just for you.... but only because I forgot it when I went to the library with 10 other books to donate.
LOL, thank you!
::flowerforyou::1 -
Panda_Poptarts wrote: »The real puzzler is.... how many of us having given ourselves diabetes, pre-diabetes, or blood sugar issues BECAUSE we ate the way we were told?
Yes, it would be interesting to know the answer!
It's got to be a LOT of people. In event, hundreds of thousands (if not millions) more than the ADA will ever acknowledge
(Like silly me, who ate low-fat for 15+ years, thinking I was doing my heart a favor. All of sudden, my BG was into diabetic range and my A1c confirmed it. Damn! Joke was on me. Fortunately, low-carbing has kept me off insulin.)
I hope we have learned a thing or two, but I wonder. The leading proponents of every diet from Paleo to Popcorn (and the faithful in their flocks) still speak as if they alone have the keys to nutritional heaven....
But obviously, you becoming diabetic and overweight was your own fault. You're secretly snarfing down a dozen donuts and a tub of butter and just lying about it on your food logs, and clearly aren't exercising enough or the right way.
As for the alternative diet people, I think it's in part because the standard recommendations so clearly cause nothing but problems, and anything is better than the recommendations (at least temporarily). Seriously, you know something's fatally wrong when a diet of 1400 or so calories in little more than white rice, fruits, and fruit juice can prompt weight loss and T2D reversal (at least temporarily).1 -
LATEST report on our state is over 52% are either diabetic or pre diabetic..my county is at 64%
http://publichealthadvocacy.org/_PDFs/prediabetes/Prediabetes_Policy Brief.pdf
What are the statistics in YOUR state? I am guessing the deep south may have the highest numbers where dietdoctor charts show most obesity.
Policy makers here are freaking out and begging for more education money..to put ALL responsibility on parents/adults. It's a losing battle for prevention when two, poor, busy working parents must choose between a $4. head of cauliflower or four 99cent burgers laden with fake mayo, fructose in ketchup & buns,and cheapest beef fried in overheated veggie oil. ..or cheap lunch meat and Mac n'(fake)cheese sauce made from (inflammatory) wheat pasta, at home..they chose by cost and convenience. Real, fresh food will lose.
Plus, ALL dietitians can ONLY work within the rigid USDA Guideline that we all know is a 40 year disaster! MANY of you know this, YOU are the problem if you don't listen.
In the entire CA Prediabetes report the MAIN thing they want to do is PROMOTE nutrition education, and to drink water..they admit sugary drinks are old to the most poor neighborhoods.
I have complained to the elcheapo grocery where most on welfare shop about the $1.49 a GALLON Neon colored flavored fructose water aimed at children..because it looks like Neon colored Crayons!
MORE SUGAR AIMED AT KIDS: Easter is coming look for the special Yoplait & Dannon 38 gr sugar "low fat" yogurts for KIDS..with CANDY on top..visible M&Ms, Herehys or Trix cereals with Cartoon Bunnies and colorful, put LOW on the self to attract kids to the candy on top.
These evil companies say they add the sugar/HFCS to make (slightly sour) yogurt "FUN" for kids. They will claim "Moderation"..this is their fallback always!
If you buy organic veggies/meats, good for you, but kids are exposed to commercials all day, peers eating junk, cheap snacks, etc.
Any Governement policymakers telling 300 million US Americans NOT not buy processed foods? NEVER HAPPEN. Telling us to eat high grains, avoid fats & sugar drinks will still compound health problems.
BigFoodMakers are never held responsible..their JOB is to keep food CHEAP, attractive, tasting good, with long shelf life to sell for highest profit. There is NO government advice to them, is there? Nations fall, riots occur when food is not kept cheap.
I am the last person to want further gov. intrusion but I have seen "food deserts" where a few withered apples or celery are available, everything else is canned or packaged.
Our national nutrition policies are a "Lose-Lose", and we are individually compelled to IGNORE them and REFUTE them.0 -
KetoGirl83 wrote: »Yes, that's standard advice. They don't seem to notice that it does NOT work.
My grandmother died of diabetic complications, that's what she ate all her life. Bland, tasteless, boring, depressing food, until she was nothing but skin and bones and had to make an effort to eat. She never cheated, not even at Christmas or birthdays. No matter what everyone else was eating, she had her own food. Still died after having first a foot, then a leg, amputated. When I got the same advice I said no, thank you.
I am SO MAD at the lies being spread around by doctors and diabetes "educators" that should know better, and so sad for all the people trying their best and still getting worse every day.
It is just infuriating.
I am only one person, but at this point in my life, I am pretty sure I'm not very unique in any respect. If LCHF produced a significant, near-immediate improvement in my BG and lipid profile, there must be millions in the same boat.
Yet sources most of us would have in our first circle of trusted references tell us to load up with carbs. This includes not only the NIH, but Mayo Clinic and Consumer Reports.* Eegads!
*The ADA was never in that tier to start with, but it's got the same stripes.
WebMD, sorry to report, is also on the list of false friends. (Prof. Volek cited WebMD as one of the usual suspects in a recent LCHF lecture available on Youtube.)
Here's what WebMD has to say about "The Basics of a Healthy Diabetes Diet"What Is the TLC Diet for Diabetes?
If you have high cholesterol along with diabetes, your doctor will probably recommend the TLC (Therapeutic Lifestyle Changes) plan.
The goal is to lower your cholesterol level, drop extra weight, and get more active. That helps prevent heart disease, which is more common when you have diabetes.
On the TLC diet, you will:
[*] Get no more than 7% of your daily calories from saturated fat, 10% or less from polyunsaturated fats, and up to 20% from monounsaturated fats (like plant oils or nuts).
[*] Keep carbs to 50%-60% of your daily calories.
[*] Aim for 20-30 grams of fiber each day.
[*] Allow 15% to 20% of your daily calories for protein.
[*] Cap cholesterol at less than 200 milligrams per day.
As if these "tips" weren't already a sugary, keto-busting disfavor all by themselves, WebMD goes on to add:Can You Have Sugar?
You might have heard that people with diabetes shouldn't have any table sugar. While some doctors say that, others take a more forgiving view.
Most experts now say that small amounts of the sweet stuff are fine, as long as they're part of an overall healthy meal plan. Table sugar does not raise your blood sugar any more than starches, which are found in many foods.
Remember that sugar is a carb. So when you eat a sweet food like cookies, cake, or candy, swap it for another carb or starch (for example, potatoes) that you would have eaten that day. In other words substitute, don't add. Ultimately, the total grams of carbohydrates matter more than the source of the sugar.
Account for any food swaps in your carbohydrate budget for the day. Adjust your medications if you add sugars to your meals.
If you take insulin, tweak your dose for the added carbs so you can keep up your blood sugar control as much as possible. Check your glucose after eating sugary foods.
Conflict of Interest?
When I turned off my ad-blockers, the above "Healthy Diabetes Diet" page at WebMD was literally surrounded by fancy video ads for Invokana.
Invokana blocks renal absorption of glucose - and may be of diminished commercial value if we carb-shunning T2Ds no longer have excess glucose prowling around our kidneys.
(Hmm. I didn't happen to notice any ads for books from Drs. Volek, Phinney, Bernstein, etc...... )
I was curious about the WebMD recommendations. There was no place to comment however the header stated: "This content is selected and controlled by WebMD's editorial staff and is brought to you by Janssen Biotech, Inc."
Guess what Janssen Biotech, Inc is? Surprise, they make pharmaceuticals...3 -
KetoGirl83 wrote: »Yes, that's standard advice. They don't seem to notice that it does NOT work.
My grandmother died of diabetic complications, that's what she ate all her life. Bland, tasteless, boring, depressing food, until she was nothing but skin and bones and had to make an effort to eat. She never cheated, not even at Christmas or birthdays. No matter what everyone else was eating, she had her own food. Still died after having first a foot, then a leg, amputated. When I got the same advice I said no, thank you.
I am SO MAD at the lies being spread around by doctors and diabetes "educators" that should know better, and so sad for all the people trying their best and still getting worse every day.
It is just infuriating.
I am only one person, but at this point in my life, I am pretty sure I'm not very unique in any respect. If LCHF produced a significant, near-immediate improvement in my BG and lipid profile, there must be millions in the same boat.
Yet sources most of us would have in our first circle of trusted references tell us to load up with carbs. This includes not only the NIH, but Mayo Clinic and Consumer Reports.* Eegads!
*The ADA was never in that tier to start with, but it's got the same stripes.
WebMD, sorry to report, is also on the list of false friends.
...
Conflict of Interest?
When I turned off my ad-blockers, the above "Healthy Diabetes Diet" page at WebMD was literally surrounded by fancy video ads for Invokana.
Invokana blocks renal absorption of glucose - and may be of diminished commercial value if we carb-shunning T2Ds no longer have excess glucose prowling around our kidneys.
I was curious about the WebMD recommendations. There was no place to comment however the header stated: "This content is selected and controlled by WebMD's editorial staff and is brought to you by Janssen Biotech, Inc."
Guess what Janssen Biotech, Inc is? Surprise, they make pharmaceuticals...
Janssen Biotech wouldn't make Invokana, I don't suppose?
Why, yes it would!
Surprise!3 -
Something to consider... healthcare professionals are in a tough spot, because they are responsible for the information they distribute to patients that could cause "potential harm". All inpatient and outpatient teaching is influenced by the ADA, because it is still considered the standard and most credible resource for diabetics. To some extent, I believe physicians are hesitant to go rogue, so to speak, because they are thumbing their nose at everything that has been taught to them in their professional career. And if they recommend a LCHF lifestyle for their patient and said patient subsequently has a heart attack, they have placed their livelihood on the line.
I do think we are seeing a shift, albeit slowly, regarding the importance of carb reduction. I have friends that are not living the LCHF lifestyle who are still limiting their carb intake because they feel better, look better, and know that it decreases symptoms such as: cravings, water retention, inflammation, etc. In fact, the diabetic nurse in my PCP's practice started the LCHF lifestyle last week and voiced to me (as a colleague, not a patient) that she is really struggling with educating patients using the ADA standards when she herself knows that it is a fast path to increased medication, progression of the disease process, etc.
It's a sad state.1 -
KETOGENICGURL wrote: »LATEST report on our state is over 52% are either diabetic or pre diabetic..my county is at 64%
http://publichealthadvocacy.org/_PDFs/prediabetes/Prediabetes_Policy Brief.pdf
What are the statistics in YOUR state? I am guessing the deep south may have the highest numbers where dietdoctor charts show most obesity.
Policy makers here are freaking out and begging for more education money..to put ALL responsibility on parents/adults. It's a losing battle for prevention when two, poor, busy working parents must choose between a $4. head of cauliflower or four 99cent burgers laden with fake mayo, fructose in ketchup & buns,and cheapest beef fried in overheated veggie oil. ..or cheap lunch meat and Mac n'(fake)cheese sauce made from (inflammatory) wheat pasta, at home..they chose by cost and convenience. Real, fresh food will lose.
Plus, ALL dietitians can ONLY work within the rigid USDA Guideline that we all know is a 40 year disaster! MANY of you know this, YOU are the problem if you don't listen.
In the entire CA Prediabetes report the MAIN thing they want to do is PROMOTE nutrition education, and to drink water..they admit sugary drinks are old to the most poor neighborhoods.
I have complained to the elcheapo grocery where most on welfare shop about the $1.49 a GALLON Neon colored flavored fructose water aimed at children..because it looks like Neon colored Crayons!
MORE SUGAR AIMED AT KIDS: Easter is coming look for the special Yoplait & Dannon 38 gr sugar "low fat" yogurts for KIDS..with CANDY on top..visible M&Ms, Herehys or Trix cereals with Cartoon Bunnies and colorful, put LOW on the self to attract kids to the candy on top.
These evil companies say they add the sugar/HFCS to make (slightly sour) yogurt "FUN" for kids. They will claim "Moderation"..this is their fallback always!
If you buy organic veggies/meats, good for you, but kids are exposed to commercials all day, peers eating junk, cheap snacks, etc.
Any Governement policymakers telling 300 million US Americans NOT not buy processed foods? NEVER HAPPEN. Telling us to eat high grains, avoid fats & sugar drinks will still compound health problems.
BigFoodMakers are never held responsible..their JOB is to keep food CHEAP, attractive, tasting good, with long shelf life to sell for highest profit. There is NO government advice to them, is there? Nations fall, riots occur when food is not kept cheap.
I am the last person to want further gov. intrusion but I have seen "food deserts" where a few withered apples or celery are available, everything else is canned or packaged.
Our national nutrition policies are a "Lose-Lose", and we are individually compelled to IGNORE them and REFUTE them.
Thanks for the analysis, insights and link to the new California report - it is sobering, to say the least (though maybe not to the people who most need sugar-sobering)...0 -
Diabetes is also connected to kidney failure...meaning 44% of diabetics will fail with sick kidneys, and require dialysis to survive.
These diabetes/kidney patients are ALSO advised on the same USDA "plate" of high carbs, and WORSE learn "fear of Bad fats"
The American Kidney Fund (non profit) site says under the banner of "New to kidney disease? Nine things you should do."
3. Stick to the diet
Healthier fat or “good” fat is called unsaturated fat. Examples of unsaturated fat include:
Olive oil, Peanut oil, Corn oil
Unsaturated fat can help reduce cholesterol. If you need to gain weight, try to eat more unsaturated fat. If you need to lose weight, limit the unsaturated fat in your meal plan. As always, moderation is the key. Too much “good” fat can also cause problems.
Saturated fat, also known as “bad” fat, can raise your cholesterol level and raise your risk for heart disease. Examples of saturated fats include:
Butter Lard Shortening Meats
http://www.kidneyfund.org/kidney-disease/chronic-kidney-disease-ckd/kidney-friendly-diet-for-ckd.html
+++++++++++++++++
A major free advice site for both diabetes & kidney failure is www.Davita.com MOST recipes also follow the 'plate' with high carbs, avoid SF.
So you can see this SAME high carb info and "fat" warnings are given endlessly. And patients are told to TRUST the doctor and dietitian.
(Another article I read even said "don't cut carbs on your own..ask for help from a professional.")
To refute this sad advice:
Doubling saturated fat in diet does not increase saturated fat in blood
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/11/141121151104.htm
http://www.westonaprice.org/know-your-fats/saturated-fats-and-the-kidneys
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KETOGENICGURL wrote: »A major free advice site for both diabetes & kidney failure is www.Davita.com MOST recipes also follow the 'plate' with high carbs, avoid SF.
So you can see this SAME high carb info and "fat" warnings are given endlessly. And patients are told to TRUST the doctor and dietitian.
(Another article I read even said "don't cut carbs on your own..ask for help from a professional.")
To refute this sad advice:
Doubling saturated fat in diet does not increase saturated fat in blood
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/11/141121151104.htm
http://www.westonaprice.org/know-your-fats/saturated-fats-and-the-kidneys
Isn't Davita in the dialysis business? hmmm....
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KETOGENICGURL wrote: »LATEST report on our state is over 52% are either diabetic or pre diabetic..my county is at 64%
http://publichealthadvocacy.org/_PDFs/prediabetes/Prediabetes_Policy Brief.pdf
What are the statistics in YOUR state? I am guessing the deep south may have the highest numbers where dietdoctor charts show most obesity.
Policy makers here are freaking out and begging for more education money..to put ALL responsibility on parents/adults. It's a losing battle for prevention when two, poor, busy working parents must choose between a $4. head of cauliflower or four 99cent burgers laden with fake mayo, fructose in ketchup & buns,and cheapest beef fried in overheated veggie oil. ..or cheap lunch meat and Mac n'(fake)cheese sauce made from (inflammatory) wheat pasta, at home..they chose by cost and convenience. Real, fresh food will lose.
Plus, ALL dietitians can ONLY work within the rigid USDA Guideline that we all know is a 40 year disaster! MANY of you know this, YOU are the problem if you don't listen.
In the entire CA Prediabetes report the MAIN thing they want to do is PROMOTE nutrition education, and to drink water..they admit sugary drinks are old to the most poor neighborhoods.
I have complained to the elcheapo grocery where most on welfare shop about the $1.49 a GALLON Neon colored flavored fructose water aimed at children..because it looks like Neon colored Crayons!
MORE SUGAR AIMED AT KIDS: Easter is coming look for the special Yoplait & Dannon 38 gr sugar "low fat" yogurts for KIDS..with CANDY on top..visible M&Ms, Herehys or Trix cereals with Cartoon Bunnies and colorful, put LOW on the self to attract kids to the candy on top.
These evil companies say they add the sugar/HFCS to make (slightly sour) yogurt "FUN" for kids. They will claim "Moderation"..this is their fallback always!
If you buy organic veggies/meats, good for you, but kids are exposed to commercials all day, peers eating junk, cheap snacks, etc.
Any Governement policymakers telling 300 million US Americans NOT not buy processed foods? NEVER HAPPEN. Telling us to eat high grains, avoid fats & sugar drinks will still compound health problems.
BigFoodMakers are never held responsible..their JOB is to keep food CHEAP, attractive, tasting good, with long shelf life to sell for highest profit. There is NO government advice to them, is there? Nations fall, riots occur when food is not kept cheap.
I am the last person to want further gov. intrusion but I have seen "food deserts" where a few withered apples or celery are available, everything else is canned or packaged.
Our national nutrition policies are a "Lose-Lose", and we are individually compelled to IGNORE them and REFUTE them.
You are so right! And it's incredibly sad and heartbreaking that such crappy, cheap foods really are targeting low income communities.
Here are US national statistics that show the relationship between education level and incidence of diabetes.
http://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/statistics/prev/national/figbyeducation.htm0 -
Here's some more great misinformation to add to the mass confusion so it's even more difficult for people to even understand their own condition.
The constant lumping together of an autoimmune disease and a condition of metabolic disfunction (T1D and T2D). You don't know how often I hear the statement "Oh, my grandpas turned into T1D when he didn't take care of it" or similar...
And if people don't recognize their symptoms because this list of symptoms lumps together the symptoms of both types, of which all of these things do not apply to both types of diabetes and does not even include the symptom of easily gaining weight, episodes of hypoglycemia (from crashing due to high insulin levels), hyperinsulinemia and feeling constantly hungry (which does apply to both because both are technically starving, just in different ways)
Taken from page 4...
"Signs and Symptoms of Diabetes
You may recall having some of these signs before you found out you had diabetes:
Being very thirsty.
Urinating a lot—often at night.
Having blurry vision from time to time.
Feeling very tired much of the time.
Losing weight without trying.
Having very dry skin.
Having sores that are slow to heal.
Getting more infections than usual.
Losing feeling or getting a tingling feeling in the feet.
Vomiting."
How many of you T2D's were "losing weight without trying"?? Even being very thirsty and urinating a lot is referencing the state of Ketoacidosis associated with complete failure of the beta cells in a T1D... If it does apply to T2D, it's not nearly in the same way.
Source:
http://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/pdfs/library/takechargeofyourdiabetes.pdf
I didn't read any further, but I'm sure it's full of gems! Especially since it starts out so well.0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Here's some more great misinformation to add to the mass confusion so it's even more difficult for people to even understand their own condition.
The constant lumping together of an autoimmune disease and a condition of metabolic disfunction (T1D and T2D). You don't know how often I hear the statement "Oh, my grandpas turned into T1D when he didn't take care of it" or similar...
And if people don't recognize their symptoms because this list of symptoms lumps together the symptoms of both types, of which all of these things do not apply to both types of diabetes and does not even include the symptom of easily gaining weight, episodes of hypoglycemia (from crashing due to high insulin levels), hyperinsulinemia and feeling constantly hungry (which does apply to both because both are technically starving, just in different ways)
Taken from page 4...
"Signs and Symptoms of Diabetes
You may recall having some of these signs before you found out you had diabetes:
Being very thirsty.
Urinating a lot—often at night.
Having blurry vision from time to time.
Feeling very tired much of the time.
Losing weight without trying.
Having very dry skin.
Having sores that are slow to heal.
Getting more infections than usual.
Losing feeling or getting a tingling feeling in the feet.
Vomiting."
How many of you T2D's were "losing weight without trying"?? Even being very thirsty and urinating a lot is referencing the state of Ketoacidosis associated with complete failure of the beta cells in a T1D... If it does apply to T2D, it's not nearly in the same way.
Source:
http://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/pdfs/library/takechargeofyourdiabetes.pdf
I didn't read any further, but I'm sure it's full of gems! Especially since it starts out so well.
If you get to those symptoms as a Type 2, it's because you've been Diabetic for years and no one caught it, and now your pancreas and liver are pretty thoroughly shot.
Oh, and the "T2D turned into T1D" bugs me, too. No, your T2D didn't become an autoimmune issue. Your pancreas just shut down, because either you willfully maintained habits that destroyed it, or you were the unfortunate victim of horrible advice for managing it.1 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Here's some more great misinformation to add to the mass confusion so it's even more difficult for people to even understand their own condition.
The constant lumping together of an autoimmune disease and a condition of metabolic disfunction (T1D and T2D). You don't know how often I hear the statement "Oh, my grandpas turned into T1D when he didn't take care of it" or similar...
And if people don't recognize their symptoms because this list of symptoms lumps together the symptoms of both types, of which all of these things do not apply to both types of diabetes and does not even include the symptom of easily gaining weight, episodes of hypoglycemia (from crashing due to high insulin levels), hyperinsulinemia and feeling constantly hungry (which does apply to both because both are technically starving, just in different ways)
Taken from page 4...
"Signs and Symptoms of Diabetes
You may recall having some of these signs before you found out you had diabetes:
Being very thirsty.
Urinating a lot—often at night.
Having blurry vision from time to time.
Feeling very tired much of the time.
Losing weight without trying.
Having very dry skin.
Having sores that are slow to heal.
Getting more infections than usual.
Losing feeling or getting a tingling feeling in the feet.
Vomiting."
How many of you T2D's were "losing weight without trying"?? Even being very thirsty and urinating a lot is referencing the state of Ketoacidosis associated with complete failure of the beta cells in a T1D... If it does apply to T2D, it's not nearly in the same way.
Source:
http://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/pdfs/library/takechargeofyourdiabetes.pdf
I didn't read any further, but I'm sure it's full of gems! Especially since it starts out so well.
Thanks for the CDC links @Sunny_Bunny_ ! A lot of interesting stuff there....
- Those upward-trending graphs on the statistics page are sad. As you pointed out, education level has always correlated with incidence, but it's creepy that the numbers for the highest education level today are quite a bit higher than those of the lowest education bracket just a couple decades ago.
- The advice brochure you quoted from..... It's better than some, but as you suspect, there's plenty of crappy advice, such asWhen you eat dairy products (cheese, milk, yogurt, and others), choose those that have little or no fat or cream.
[Arrrrgggghhhh!]
And it advises, when you're sick:Try to eat the same amount of fruits and breads as usual. If you can, eat your regular diet. If you’re
having trouble doing this, use carbohydrate choices or servings: eat enough soft foods or drink enough
liquids to take the place of the fruits and breads you usually eat.
But buried in the middle somewhere, it does recommend:Test your blood glucose Keep track of your blood glucose and go over your records often. You’ll learn how certain foods or activities affect your glucose.
And a recommendation from the California Prediabetes Health Policy Brief cited by @KETOGENICGURLSupport diabetes prevention efforts. Most people with prediabetes do not know they have the condition. Providing coverage for and ensuring the regular medical practice of appropriate screening can identify people with prediabetes while it is still possible to prevent the onset of type 2 diabetes. In addition, insurance coverage
for and referral to recognized diabetes prevention programs can remove critical barriers to education and care for people with prediabetes and can facilitate lifestyle changes that can prevent diabetes.
Timely screening would be great. (Certainly better than just keeping an eye out for the "Signs and Symptoms" you quoted from CDC.) But still, even if the "barriers to education" are lowered, then what?
While the recommendations would probably caution prediabetics to limit added sugars and simple carbs, it will probably be at least another decade before any official diabetes diets are genuinely low-carb - the only type of diet that has worked for many of us.
But.... if everyone with prediabetes or T2D were to test themselves 2-4x daily and get A1c tests every 3 months, as weakly suggested somewhere in the CDC brochure, then correlate the lab results with what they've eaten (as all of us T2D's here have done), what a dramatic and effective educational device that could be.
Timely, effective, individualized attention could be such a boon.3
This discussion has been closed.