Official diabetes diet misinformation - any candidates for the Darwin Awards?
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Geez. It is is funny when you know better, but it is pretty sad considering that most never will.
I am prediabetic and was told to eat more lean meat, fruits and veggies...1 -
This is why I got so fat!!!2
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The Mayo Clinic's entry for the Darwin Award in the "Deadly Diabetes Diet" category.
Both 70+ carb-gram breakfast menus look like products of unnatural selection to me.....
This gem emanates from a dietitian and specialty editor for the nutrition and healthy eating guide at Mayo. (Note that protein doesn't even get a footnote....)
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Ugh! Orange juice for a diabetic??? That should be illegal. And Tim Noakes is on trial? Whoever wrote that should be sued.3 -
PaleoInScotland wrote: »The excuse I hear the most as to why medical professionals don't recommend LCHF is because it's not sustainable. That's the craziest thing I've ever heard. This is the most sustainable woe I have ever tried! Eating rice, cake, bread and French fries is going to sustain me right into a grave. LCLF - now that's unsustainable, I think too many diabetics who know carbs are bad end up down that path for too long, I know I did. The fat is what makes this so sustainable.
AMEN!!!0 -
"PaleoInScotland wrote: »
Ugh! Orange juice for a diabetic??? That should be illegal. And Tim Noakes is on trial? Whoever wrote that should be sued.
The ADA, AMA, Sugar Association, Kellogg's, Pfizer, etc., would likely all file briefs as "amici" in sheep's clothing...
Maybe deported or sent by NASA to help the Martians?1 -
When I was a teen my mother was hospitalized and diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. We all went on a diabetic diet. We were told to have cereal, fruit, toast, margarine, and skim milk and fruit juice for breakfast! This was in the eighties for reference! We all lost weight, but we were so hungry!! It wasn't sustainable at all! All weight was regained and the struggle continued!2
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While I'm not diabetic, I do have some very definite opinions on the topic of medical professionals and nutrition. (To summarize: They are clueless.) In the 15 years I've been dealing with Crohns Disease, not ONE SINGLE person has ever even mentioned the connection between what we put in our mouths and what happens in our digestive tracks, apparently unrelated topics. For all any of them know, I may have been sustaining life all these years on Little Debbie Dingdongs and Skittles, washed down with margaritas.1
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The Mayo Clinic's entry for the Darwin Award in the "Deadly Diabetes Diet" category.
Both 70+ carb-gram breakfast menus look like products of unnatural selection to me.....
This gem emanates from a dietitian and specialty editor for the nutrition and healthy eating guide at Mayo. (Note that protein doesn't even get a footnote....)
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Ugh! Talk about a rigged comparison!
Higher in nutrients?! The white and wheat toast don't offer much to either of them, so drop them off both. The nutrients in bread are nearly all fortified, so they're not particularly bioavailable, and the phytates and whatnot in the wheat inhibit absorption of what's left.
The cornflakes suffer the same issue as the bread, and by replacing eggs with them, you're losing choline, folate, B vitamins, selenium, biotin, iodine, and many other essential nutrients.
Potatoes and bananas are somewhat on par with one another in that their biggest claim to fame is potassium. I'd argue that the potatoes have the edge, because it's primarily starches, where a ripe banana is mostly glucose.
Butter vs peanut butter are somewhat on par. However, you lose the vitamins A, D, and K2 for a little extra E. Peanut butter has additional magnesium and phosphorous, but has the same amount of phytosterol (plant cholesterol) as butter has cholesterol, so the idea that there's less cholesterol isn't entirely true. Plus, butter has things like CLA and butyrate, which peanut butter doesn't have. And peanuts are a legume, so again, you have to deal with the phytates inhibiting absorption of those nutrients, decreasing their bioavailability.
And if you drop the bread and hash browns from the first menu, you drop more than half the carbs, and half the calories, bringing the calorie count in line with the option 2, and doing it how you're supposed to -- trading the carbs for fats.2 -
[quote="Dragonwolf;35674246" Ugh! Talk about a rigged comparison!
Higher in nutrients?! The white and wheat toast don't offer much to either of them, so drop them off both. The nutrients in bread are nearly all fortified, so they're not particularly bioavailable, and the phytates and whatnot in the wheat inhibit absorption of what's left.
The cornflakes suffer the same issue as the bread, and by replacing eggs with them, you're losing choline, folate, B vitamins, selenium, biotin, iodine, and many other essential nutrients.
Potatoes and bananas are somewhat on par with one another in that their biggest claim to fame is potassium. I'd argue that the potatoes have the edge, because it's primarily starches, where a ripe banana is mostly glucose.
Butter vs peanut butter are somewhat on par. However, you lose the vitamins A, D, and K2 for a little extra E. Peanut butter has additional magnesium and phosphorous, but has the same amount of phytosterol (plant cholesterol) as butter has cholesterol, so the idea that there's less cholesterol isn't entirely true. Plus, butter has things like CLA and butyrate, which peanut butter doesn't have. And peanuts are a legume, so again, you have to deal with the phytates inhibiting absorption of those nutrients, decreasing their bioavailability.
And if you drop the bread and hash browns from the first menu, you drop more than half the carbs, and half the calories, bringing the calorie count in line with the option 2, and doing it how you're supposed to -- trading the carbs for fats.[/quote]
Well said!0 -
mandycat223 wrote: »While I'm not diabetic, I do have some very definite opinions on the topic of medical professionals and nutrition. (To summarize: They are clueless.) In the 15 years I've been dealing with Crohns Disease, not ONE SINGLE person has ever even mentioned the connection between what we put in our mouths and what happens in our digestive tracks, apparently unrelated topics.
For all any of them know, I may have been sustaining life all these years on Little Debbie's, Dingdongs, and Skittles, washed down with margaritas.
If getting good nutrition advice is a battle for the diet-conscious folks here (and it is), imagine the challenges for immigrants, seniors, and people who are too unwell to pursue the topic!
Not cool.
PS Don't forget Ho-ho's, Twinkies, and Sunny "Delight"...
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Check out this video on Tedx Purdue! The title says it all:
Reversing Type 2 diabetes starts with ignoring the guidelines Sarah Hallberg TEDxPurdueU
It a perfect outline for a Ketogenic diet (even though she never says the word Ketogenic) for curing a diabetic, and she shows how the ADA guidelines are just plain wrong and crazy.
Enjoy,
Dan the Man from Michigan
Keto / The Recipe Water Fasting / E.A.S.Y. Exercise Program
How I got Off of Diabetic Prescriptions Drugs Since I Started Keto
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I vote for margaritas as a healthy food group!! "Prevents scurvy!!" "Energizes!" "Aids in stress reduction!!"
lol, tongue-in-cheek5 -
Impressive. Maybe you could get a staff writer gig with the ADA!0
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mandycat223 wrote: »While I'm not diabetic, I do have some very definite opinions on the topic of medical professionals and nutrition. (To summarize: They are clueless.) In the 15 years I've been dealing with Crohns Disease, not ONE SINGLE person has ever even mentioned the connection between what we put in our mouths and what happens in our digestive tracks, apparently unrelated topics. For all any of them know, I may have been sustaining life all these years on Little Debbie Dingdongs and Skittles, washed down with margaritas.
Almost all of the doctors I have had contact with want to give a drug/medication for everything. They want to treat symptoms. Example, my daughter was experiencing awful upper and lower GI issues. The doctor gave her all sorts of medications for the symptoms and never sought to find out the cause. I did my investigation and found that my 14 year old was sneaking and binge eating sugary foods. I took the sugar out of her diet and lectured her on the perils of sugar to her system and amazingly all her symptoms went away. I don't know why, but she cannot handle sugar.1 -
This is exactly why I'm so glad I found this board and this WOE. When the doctor ever sent me to a nutritionist who gave myself and my husband a pamphlet (the same one they've been handing out for at least 10 years now) that said most of what's in that article, that was it for me. When I told her that this is how I've been eating for 10 years now, with no improvement, she said I must be cheating. I haven't looked back.
I watch my Mom go from doctor to doctor. Each one putting her on low calorie, low fat diet. After each diet she would gain back the weight and even more. She kept getting heavier and heavier. She got type 2 diabetes and all sorts of stomach problems. She bragged to me today that she weighed less than 200 pounds and she is only 5'4". She's 83 and almost bed ridden. God love her she keeps on trying.
I've been telling her about my LCHF diet. If I'm successful maybe she will try it.2 -
mandycat223 wrote: »While I'm not diabetic, I do have some very definite opinions on the topic of medical professionals and nutrition. (To summarize: They are clueless.) In the 15 years I've been dealing with Crohns Disease, not ONE SINGLE person has ever even mentioned the connection between what we put in our mouths and what happens in our digestive tracks, apparently unrelated topics. For all any of them know, I may have been sustaining life all these years on Little Debbie Dingdongs and Skittles, washed down with margaritas.
Almost all of the doctors I have had contact with want to give a drug/medication for everything. They want to treat symptoms. Example, my daughter was experiencing awful upper and lower GI issues. The doctor gave her all sorts of medications for the symptoms and never sought to find out the cause. I did my investigation and found that my 14 year old was sneaking and binge eating sugary foods. I took the sugar out of her diet and lectured her on the perils of sugar to her system and amazingly all her symptoms went away. I don't know why, but she cannot handle sugar.
Kudos! What a favor you are doing for your daughter to enlighten her at such a young but impressionable age.
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KetoGirl83 wrote: »Yes, that's standard advice. They don't seem to notice that it does NOT work.
My grandmother died of diabetic complications, that's what she ate all her life. Bland, tasteless, boring, depressing food, until she was nothing but skin and bones and had to make an effort to eat. She never cheated, not even at Christmas or birthdays. No matter what everyone else was eating, she had her own food. Still died after having first a foot, then a leg, amputated. When I got the same advice I said no, thank you.
I am SO MAD at the lies being spread around by doctors and diabetes "educators" that should know better, and so sad for all the people trying their best and still getting worse every day.
It is just infuriating.
I am only one person, but at this point in my life, I am pretty sure I'm not very unique in any respect. If LCHF produced a significant, near-immediate improvement in my BG and lipid profile, there must be millions in the same boat.
Yet sources most of us would have in our first circle of trusted references tell us to load up with carbs. This includes not only the NIH, but Mayo Clinic and Consumer Reports.* Eegads!
*The ADA was never in that tier to start with, but it's got the same stripes.
WebMD, sorry to report, is also on the list of false friends. (Prof. Volek cited WebMD as one of the usual suspects in a recent LCHF lecture available on Youtube.)
Here's what WebMD has to say about "The Basics of a Healthy Diabetes Diet"What Is the TLC Diet for Diabetes?
If you have high cholesterol along with diabetes, your doctor will probably recommend the TLC (Therapeutic Lifestyle Changes) plan.
The goal is to lower your cholesterol level, drop extra weight, and get more active. That helps prevent heart disease, which is more common when you have diabetes.
On the TLC diet, you will:
[*] Get no more than 7% of your daily calories from saturated fat, 10% or less from polyunsaturated fats, and up to 20% from monounsaturated fats (like plant oils or nuts).
[*] Keep carbs to 50%-60% of your daily calories.
[*] Aim for 20-30 grams of fiber each day.
[*] Allow 15% to 20% of your daily calories for protein.
[*] Cap cholesterol at less than 200 milligrams per day.
As if these "tips" weren't already a sugary, keto-busting disfavor all by themselves, WebMD goes on to add:Can You Have Sugar?
You might have heard that people with diabetes shouldn't have any table sugar. While some doctors say that, others take a more forgiving view.
Most experts now say that small amounts of the sweet stuff are fine, as long as they're part of an overall healthy meal plan. Table sugar does not raise your blood sugar any more than starches, which are found in many foods.
Remember that sugar is a carb. So when you eat a sweet food like cookies, cake, or candy, swap it for another carb or starch (for example, potatoes) that you would have eaten that day. In other words substitute, don't add. Ultimately, the total grams of carbohydrates matter more than the source of the sugar.
Account for any food swaps in your carbohydrate budget for the day. Adjust your medications if you add sugars to your meals.
If you take insulin, tweak your dose for the added carbs so you can keep up your blood sugar control as much as possible. Check your glucose after eating sugary foods.
Conflict of Interest?
When I turned off my ad-blockers, the above "Healthy Diabetes Diet" page at WebMD was literally surrounded by fancy video ads for Invokana.
Invokana blocks renal absorption of glucose - and may be of diminished commercial value if we carb-shunning T2Ds no longer have excess glucose prowling around our kidneys.
(Hmm. I didn't happen to notice any ads for books from Drs. Volek, Phinney, Bernstein, etc...... )
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Just FYI, these ADA numbers are just guidelines. Something so variable as diet and activity level for a person are not going to fit in quite so well.
FYI, canagliflozin (INVOKANA) blocks renal Reabsorption of glucose in the kidneys, blocking the normal compensatory mechanisms of glomerular filtration. Quite a revolutionary and breakthrough mechanism that has numerous advantages over past/current mechanisms in T2DM. Being investigated for use in type 1 DMs right now.
Whether Sodium Glucose Ligand Transporter -1 inhibitors are useless in carbohydrate less diets is unknown. There are compensatory mechanisms to create glucose and these meds work at the final point of elimination in contrast to alpha glucosidase inhibitors which work at the initial point of glucose absorption (saliva/carbohydrate breaking enzymes)...AGIs would be pretty useless in keto.
...what were we discussing now? Extreme tangent2 -
my husband went low carb when he was first diagnosed and kept a food log. We were waiting for the diabetic counsellor appointment. We went to the first appointment where he received exactly the advice given above. 65 carbs at each of 3 meals and 30 carb at each of two snacks. He asked about low carbs and it was dismissed. They refused to look at the 3 weeks of food log. I refused to go back for any following appointments. My husband went 3 more times. Unfortunately, he followed their advice for 2 years before our doctor's office saw the light and recommended low carb. We haven't looked back since. It was simply illogical to eat that much carb when we knew that starches drive sugars. I refused to go along with the counsellor's suggestion of half a cup of orange juice (we had cut out juice some time before and I saw no reason to add it back) since orange juice was what I was taught offer in the case of ketoacidosis. Just didn't make sense at all for T1D to drink it daily. And we have confused our friends and family who only want to help. First, he eats a little of the starches but must watch fats, then he eats starches and must eat on time, then he doesn't eat starches and sugars and doesn't care about eating fats, and eating on time, not so important because he isn't as hungry and we are more used to fasting. ARRRRGGHHH. When he had it right to begin with! Three years until the right track and Blood Sugars are falling. At least it was only 2 years.5
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dasher602014 wrote: »my husband went low carb when he was first diagnosed and kept a food log. We were waiting for the diabetic counsellor appointment. We went to the first appointment where he received exactly the advice given above. 65 carbs at each of 3 meals and 30 carb at each of two snacks. He asked about low carbs and it was dismissed. They refused to look at the 3 weeks of food log. I refused to go back for any following appointments. My husband went 3 more times. Unfortunately, he followed their advice for 2 years before our doctor's office saw the light and recommended low carb. We haven't looked back since. It was simply illogical to eat that much carb when we knew that starches drive sugars. I refused to go along with the counsellor's suggestion of half a cup of orange juice (we had cut out juice some time before and I saw no reason to add it back) since orange juice was what I was taught offer in the case of ketoacidosis. Just didn't make sense at all for T1D to drink it daily. And we have confused our friends and family who only want to help. First, he eats a little of the starches but must watch fats, then he eats starches and must eat on time, then he doesn't eat starches and sugars and doesn't care about eating fats, and eating on time, not so important because he isn't as hungry and we are more used to fasting. ARRRRGGHHH. When he had it right to begin with! Three years until the right track and Blood Sugars are falling. At least it was only 2 years.
Most folks here probably take it as self-evident that not all diabetics are the same, but providers often make no effort to figure out if there are significant individual variations at play. For example, there's no reason your food log should have been ignored on account of whatever "the guidelines" or other holy grail dictated at the time.
And after so many of us have completely flipped our approaches to lipid, blood pressure, glucose and insulin management over the years, one might expect a little less conviction from providers when they utter mantras instead of providing individualized advice.
And who knows how long it will take for the effects of the low-fat dogma to fade?
In many institutional settings (conferences, social events, hospital cafeterias, etc.), there's often not much to choose from beyond coffee, tea, and ice water.
For example, here's a typical (and cheap) mid-morning snack from the slim pickings at the last conference I attended. (Cans of sugar-spiked iced tea and soft drinks were available all day.)
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