Official diabetes diet misinformation - any candidates for the Darwin Awards?
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@jellybelly4327 When I met with a nutritionist 10 years ago when first diagnosed, she advised 180 grams per day, which resulted in the typical progression of the disease and increased need for medication.
I've been in insulin for the last 5 years as my original oral medication was no longer available to me and the traditional alternative, metformin, makes me very ill. I went from 310 units a day to 10-20 units a day by keeping my carbs under 20 grams.0 -
(false start)0
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jellybelly4327 wrote: »I am a vegetarian. No eggs, meat.
I am in love with cheese.
Since you like dairy.....
The pros might say there's a big glycemic difference between cultured dairy products (yogurt, crème fraiche, sour cream and most cheeses?) and the others (the uncouth ones), like, uh, milk, chocolate milk, etc.
This despite the fact that the carb content on the labels may not be that different....
They would probably also advise you to ignore the recommendations of the ADA et al. and go for the full-fat versions of whatever dairy products you're going to eat - and regard the fat-free and low-fat stuff like poison.0 -
jellybelly4327 wrote: »Hi, I was told last week I am pre-diabetic. I see the nutritionist at the end of April. I am curious as to how many carbs you guys nutritionist's suggested for you daily. I am a vegetarian. No eggs, meat. I am in love with cheese. My glucose is high every time I take it. Yes, I was trying to limit my carbs to 45 per meal. I see that does not work. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
You need to lower your carb intake to 50 (or less) grams carbs a day, total of all meals.
Blog #13 DittoDan's Milestone's, First's And Good Changes Since Starting the Ketogenic Diet Updated
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How I Got Off of Diabetic Prescriptions Drugs Since I Started Keto
I hope this helps,
Dan the Man from Michigan
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jellybelly4327 wrote: »Hi, I was told last week I am pre-diabetic. I see the nutritionist at the end of April. I am curious as to how many carbs you guys nutritionist's suggested for you daily. I am a vegetarian. No eggs, meat. I am in love with cheese. My glucose is high every time I take it. Yes, I was trying to limit my carbs to 45 per meal. I see that does not work. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
You need to lower your carb intake to 50 (or less) grams carbs a day, total of all meals.
(...)
This.
My nutritionist wanted me to have 100g of carbs per meal, lol. If you want to control diabetes with diet I suggest you read Dr Bernstein's Diabetes Solution. At least until you have your BG numbers controlled you'll need to restrict carbs to a max of 15-20 per meal.
::flowerforyou::
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KetoGirl83 wrote: »
I take no medication except for Glucophage (metformin) if I intend to go off plan.
@KetoGirl83 : I'd never heard of Metformin being used for spot-relief - but its effect does seem to be pretty quick.
Any tips on dosing for those off-plan moments when you've got visions of sugar plums dancing in your head?
Thx!
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KetoGirl83 wrote: »
I take no medication except for Glucophage (metformin) if I intend to go off plan.
@KetoGirl83 : I'd never heard of Metformin being used for spot-relief - but its effect does seem to be pretty quick.
Any tips on dosing for those off-plan moments when you've got visions of sugar plums dancing in your head?
Thx!
@RalfLott LOL, my off-plans are usually not that sugar covered.
If I know I'll have a special occasion family meal and I want to have some dessert or extra carbs without feeling guilty I'll take 500g Glucophage before bed for 2-3 days before and after that occasion and I monitor my BG more carefully. Off-plans always show in fasting BG, not so much after meals (for me, that is).
Anyway, my off-plans may include a bit of sugar and/or more veggies and fruit than usual but that's it, no junk and nothing really crazy. The rare few times I tried cereals/flour of any kind got me again in the highs and lows for weeks so it's not worth it.
You'll have to test and see how far you can go. I do believe Met can be used this way only if your BG control is very good when you're not taking it.
The kind of spot-relief where you take Met and sugar plums at the same time is not a good idea, even if it works. Makes it way too easy to cave in and if you do it often it will stop working. Unless you have a superhuman strong will, off-plans should be a conscious choice and planned in advance.
::flowerforyou::1 -
KetoGirl83 wrote: »
@RalfLott LOL, my off-plans are usually not that sugar covered.
If I know I'll have a special occasion family meal and I want to have some dessert or extra carbs without feeling guilty I'll take 500g Glucophage before bed for 2-3 days before and after that occasion and I monitor my BG more carefully. Off-plans always show in fasting BG, not so much after meals (for me, that is).
Anyway, my off-plans may include a bit of sugar and/or more veggies and fruit than usual but that's it, no junk and nothing really crazy. The rare few times I tried cereals/flour of any kind got me again in the highs and lows for weeks so it's not worth it.
You'll have to test and see how far you can go. I do believe Met can be used this way only if your BG control is very good when you're not taking it.
The kind of spot-relief where you take Met and sugar plums at the same time is not a good idea, even if it works. Makes it way too easy to cave in and if you do it often it will stop working. Unless you have a superhuman strong will, off-plans should be a conscious choice and planned in advance.
::flowerforyou::
Thanks for sharing your insights.
And bravo! to you for not only figuring out this strategy, but also having the discipline to make off-plan planning work.
Alas, I'm still on Metformin. But perhaps resurrection day for my ability to eat chocolate eggs will come during my lifetime.0 -
New nominee for you: Dr. Phil. He just came out of the diabetes closet and is now promoting his own cure. Drugs + wholesome grains.
https://www.onitmovement.com/home.html1 -
New nominee for you: Dr. Phil.
He just came out of the diabetes closet and is now promoting his own cure. Drugs + wholesome grains.
https://www.onitmovement.com/home.html
Bingo - extra jellybeans for you!
Honestly, that outfit is basically a drug website:
https://www.onitmovement.com/sitemap.html
(Dr. Phil offers to help find a suitable diabetes educator to get you started on Bydureon, the extended release version of Byetta....)0 -
New nominee for you: Dr. Phil. He just came out of the diabetes closet and is now promoting his own cure. Drugs + wholesome grains.
https://www.onitmovement.com/home.html
Dr. Phil is a Doctor in Money Making 101 with a specialization in Legal Drugs Are Good For You. Seriously, he has a Ph.D. in Psychology but he is not even licensed as a psychologist. He has a right to that "Dr." but he knows most people take it to mean he is a medical doctor and he makes no effort to clear it. If he hadn't credibility he wouldn't have landed this deal with Bydureon (I wonder how much he gets?).
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New nominee for you: Dr. Phil.
He just came out of the diabetes closet and is now promoting his own cure. Drugs + wholesome grains.
https://www.onitmovement.com/home.html
Bingo - extra jellybeans for you!
Honestly, that outfit is basically a drug website:
https://www.onitmovement.com/sitemap.html
(Dr. Phil offers to help find a suitable diabetes educator to get you started on Bydureon, the extended release version of Byetta....)
"Dr." Phil would be prosecuted where I live for his *kitten* use of the doctor title. He and Dr. Oz have a tremendous number of harmful statements to apologize for.0 -
(...)
Alas, I'm still on Metformin. But perhaps resurrection day for my ability to eat chocolate eggs will come during my lifetime.
@RalfLott have you tried really dark high quality chocolate (85%+, no soy or other carbage)? That is my crutch when I crave sweet stuff and it doesn't alter my BG. And it's very difficult to overeat because it is so dense in nutrients, I usually have just 1-2 squares and honestly don't want more.
Before LCHF I could eat unlimited amounts of chocolate but what I was addicted to wasn't the chocolate, it was the sugar. When I switched to very dark chocolate (I now have 99%) and took away the "forbidden food" label from it I found that since I can have it whenever I want it, I rarely want it. But I don't fool myself, dark chocolate can stay months in the pantry but I'm not brave enough to have the junk chocolate I loved anywhere I can reach (OMG, Mars, Milky Way... I bet my BG has gone up just thinking about it).
::flowerforyou::1 -
KetoGirl83 wrote: »
@RalfLott have you tried really dark high quality chocolate (85%+, no soy or other carbage)? That is my crutch when I crave sweet stuff and it doesn't alter my BG. And it's very difficult to overeat because it is so dense in nutrients, I usually have just 1-2 squares and honestly don't want more.
Before LCHF I could eat unlimited amounts of chocolate but what I was addicted to wasn't the chocolate, it was the sugar. When I switched to very dark chocolate (I now have 99%) and took away the "forbidden food" label from it I found that since I can have it whenever I want it, I rarely want it. But I don't fool myself, dark chocolate can stay months in the pantry but I'm not brave enough to have the junk chocolate I loved anywhere I can reach (OMG, Mars, Milky Way... I bet my BG has gone up just thinking about it).
::flowerforyou::
Well, I do have a little high% chocolate now and then, and that more than satisfies my residual chocolate urges.
(But it might not put much of a dent in the covetous desire that's sure to arise while watching my family dig into plates of apple pie with cinnamon ice cream this afternoon. I may kill a whole bottle of peppermint mouthwash before sunfall.)0 -
"Dr." Phil would be prosecuted where I live for his *kitten* use of the doctor title. He and Dr. Oz have a tremendous number of harmful statements to apologize for.
While I'm not crazy about either of them, Dr. Oz is a real doctor and a practising surgeon. He is a bit too much into alternative medicine for my liking, sometimes a lot more "alternative" than "medicine" but he is a competent doctor. Even though he undoubtedly makes money from dubious new age "discoveries" I've never seen him condoning real drugs, if anything he goes too far the other way.
::flowerforyou::0 -
(But it might not put much of a dent in the covetous desire that's sure to arise while watching my family dig into plates of apple pie with cinnamon ice cream this afternoon. I may kill a whole bottle of peppermint mouthwash before sunfall.)
That's the most difficult for me as well. Because it's family and it's comfort food and that stuff has emotional power (this is just the kind of occasion when I use metformin to cheat a little). I may try the mouthwash solution instead!
::flowerforyou::0 -
KetoGirl83 wrote: »
That's the most difficult for me as well. Because it's family and it's comfort food and that stuff has emotional power (this is just the kind of occasion when I use metformin to cheat a little). I may try the mouthwash solution instead!
::flowerforyou::
Extra bonus - mouthwash floats are awful.
(Ok, they're not awful, they're just not as good as the genuine article...)
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I hadn't even thought about ADA-branded cookbooks.
A campfire might be a better home for your book than anywhere someone else might read it!
A quick look around Scribd and Amazon for similar ADA carb-rich recipe collections revealed exactly what you would have guessed. For example, the ADA's "Diabetes Comfort Food Cookbook" has entire chapters on pasta dishes and desserts and includes such glucose-spikers as:-
Ambrosia (19g carbs, 15 sugar per 4 oz) and
Spaghetti Carbonara (36g carbs per serving, using low- or fat-free ricotta and half-and-half)
The top comment at Amazon says:The carb counts in this book are WRONG. Some are seriously wrong. My 12 year old daughter is newly diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. I got this book for her and she was grateful to have something with carbs listed, so she could plan her insulin shots and meals. She picked a recipe with black beans and rice, which had carbs listed at 6 g per 1 cup serving. She was so excited she could have two cups for 12 g. I stopped and looked at the meal, which was comprised entirely of rice with some black beans and spices and thought the count seemed wrong. Cooked rice AND black beans have carb counts of 43 g per cup. She started crying when I told her the book was wrong. She had one cup, gave herself appropriate insulin for 43 g and her later blood sugar checks made us glad we didn't believe THIS COMPLETELY INACCURATE CARB COUNT.
These gems are definitely getting into the tournament.
This was initially written as an ADA book, then after she turned it in, they suddenly said it was too low carb, even though they had known what was going to be in it the entire time. Too bad.
http://www.amazon.com/Nourished-Cookbook-Health-Metabolic-Balance/dp/09792018100 -
cedarsidefarm wrote: »This is exactly why I'm so glad I found this board and this WOE. When the doctor ever sent me to a nutritionist who gave myself and my husband a pamphlet (the same one they've been handing out for at least 10 years now) that said most of what's in that article, that was it for me. When I told her that this is how I've been eating for 10 years now, with no improvement, she said I must be cheating. I haven't looked back.
I watch my Mom go from doctor to doctor. Each one putting her on low calorie, low fat diet. After each diet she would gain back the weight and even more. She kept getting heavier and heavier. She got type 2 diabetes and all sorts of stomach problems. She bragged to me today that she weighed less than 200 pounds and she is only 5'4". She's 83 and almost bed ridden. God love her she keeps on trying.
I've been telling her about my LCHF diet. If I'm successful maybe she will try it.
@cedarsidefarm I was 63 when I started this WOE Oct 2014 hoping to manage my joint and muscle pain by diet vs starting Enbrel injections. It fixed me in more ways than have time to say but I was about to become house bound and needed help to get out of the car.
Keep helping yourself and maybe your Mom will realize the value. I did not know about Nutritional Ketosis at the time but when off of sugars and all forms of all grains cold turkey on a hunch it would fix me. It has change life of my family too.1 -
I'm a diabetic and am in several diabetes groups on social media. In one of the groups, someone asked for ideas for low carb snacks. This is a very reasonable question. Then someone else in the group posted 3 responses in meme and picture form. Every one of them had several (if not exclusively) carb-heavy foods such as whole-grain bread, pineapple, and one of them was just a photo of large waffle cones stuffed with grapes and other fruits. Under each of these responses, I mentioned foods from that response with a lot of carbs. The person complained to one of the mods, who then took her side and deleted 2 of my 3 responses. The mod and I chatted and I explained that these do not answer the question about low carb. Her response was that they are "healthy" and therefore they do answer the question... WTF?! Then she complained it was rude of me to respond to every one of this other person's responses. Really?! If one of the responses includes pineapple, it is totally reasonable to mention that pineapple is not low carb. If another response includes whole wheat bread, it is reasonable to respond to that one to call that out. Some people are just unreasonable.
I understand most medical practitioners are experts on nothing and just know a little bit about everything... that is the idea of general practice. One would expect specialists (endocrinologists and CDE's) to educate diabetic patients about carbs, though.3
