Just wanted to confirm few things.
Replies
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I think he'll just have to decide what's more important, losing a few more ounces of weight to have his best chance of winning the weightloss challenge he is in combined with some losses in performance he'll need to recover from, or accept that he won't win that challenge and get back to a diet that is more sustainable for him, his ethics, his lifestyle and his other fitness goals.1
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Dragonwolf wrote: »Generally speaking there are very few on/off switches in the body and substrate utilization is no exception to this.
I'll be very clear here so that my words aren't taken otherwise -- I have no issues with low carb dieting for certain populations. It's a great solution for some people and moreover -- if it works well for YOU, then who gives a *kitten* what anyone else says about it, that's the bottom line.
But having said that, there's many ways to skin a cat. The BEST way for you to lose fat and gain muscle/strength will be to find a diet you can ADHERE TO such that you can TRAIN EFFECTIVELY and meet your nutritional needs.
That could be low carb, it could be high carb, it could be something in between.
I actually agree with most of this.
However, I think the bigger problem for the OP regarding sustainability, and more immediately, his energy levels during workouts is his overall lack of food, period, not so much his lack of carbs or him being ketogenic.
The guys at Ketogains prove that one can work out just fine while ketogenic, and gain plenty of muscle mass. The caveat is that they eat sufficient amounts of food.
Viren, here, however, is a 26 year old male attempting to do and progress on a 5/3/1 lifting program on a whopping 1500 calories...and wondering why he's wearing out. For what he's doing, he should probably be eating double that. Hell, when I'm that active, I, a 28 year old woman with metabolic issues, can lose weight on double that when I'm eating right for my body.
While being a vegetarian may exclude him from sustaining very low carbohydrate levels (and that's fine), it's disingenuous in this case to blame his current complaints on the carbs or lack thereof, which appears to be what he's attempting to do.
No one here supports severe deficits, especially if things aren't working right. Additionally, while many of us do end up that way, we don't specifically advocate the very, very low levels of carbohydrates. That's not necessary for everyone, and certainly not feasible for some, and we encourage everyone to find what works for them.
I didn't blame anything on anyone or any diet. Just logging my experience.
I know I feel weak due to the fact that I have taken zero breaks since Jan 9 -never came out of deficit since then either.
I cannot stay below 50 grams of carbs if I take my diet back up to 2000 a day deficit. My maintenance intake is suppose to be around 2700-2900 as I stated above.
Believe me I've tried -it can be done if I started reducing foods altogether and just drink glasses of coconut virgin oil lol -it'll keep fat and calories up .
I am not saying this diet is bad, I'm just saying it will be very hard for me. I don't even out and as is I'm restricting myself if I move away from home where cooking isn't as easy as it is now then I'll be doomed lol
Why restrict myself when all is well. I just wanted to try it out because of the benefits and majorly FAT LOSS claims I heard. We all know nothing beats CICO -so only way to do both was my current caloric level.
Once it's over I'll go in maintenance for 3-4 days and then get in reasonable deficit again because not at my target yet.0 -
Generally speaking there are very few on/off switches in the body and substrate utilization is no exception to this.
I'll be very clear here so that my words aren't taken otherwise -- I have no issues with low carb dieting for certain populations. It's a great solution for some people and moreover -- if it works well for YOU, then who gives a *kitten* what anyone else says about it, that's the bottom line.
But having said that, there's many ways to skin a cat. The BEST way for you to lose fat and gain muscle/strength will be to find a diet you can ADHERE TO such that you can TRAIN EFFECTIVELY and meet your nutritional needs.
That could be low carb, it could be high carb, it could be something in between.
I, agree.0 -
viren19890 wrote: »I didn't blame anything on anyone or any diet. Just logging my experience.
While you might have said it outright, the focus of a number of your posts, even before you simply logged your experiences, were heavily on the effects of low carb and seem to all but ignore the caloric deficit:viren19890 wrote: »I'm on a 21 days ketogenic diet with a severe deficit. 18 days left now. In these 18 days I won't end up losing all my muscle right? and damn! muscle loss issue is a big thing- if it's true-once this 18 day period is over I'll be back to my regular carb intake because well I like muscles lolviren19890 wrote: »
That means Keto diet isn't long term sustainable for someone who plans to go on bulk and or does heavy lifting for the purpose of gaining muscle mass.Severe deficit? Most people will lose some muscle on a hypocaloric diet. Sufficient protein + resistance training should maintain muscle mass, even on a ketogenic diet.
But otherwise, most of that info looks legit. Except that "reduced exercise intensity" goes away after about a month.
Check out ketogains:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ketogains/
If you're on twitter, follow this guy:
https://twitter.com/SBakerMD
Ask him about muscle and intensity loss on a ketogenic diet.
viren19890 wrote: »Also, it's unlikely for me to continue this long term because for me it is just not doable. My whole life would need shuffling around to be able to utilize this kind of program. I eat carbs being a vegetarian , most of my stuff has carbs in them. I don't eat out as often (maybe once-twice a month) rest is homemade, lentils, pulses, roti, naan, vegetables.
However, let's see where I am in my last 10 days.I cannot stay below 50 grams of carbs if I take my diet back up to 2000 a day deficit. My maintenance intake is suppose to be around 2700-2900 as I stated above.
Believe me I've tried -it can be done if I started reducing foods altogether and just drink glasses of coconut virgin oil lol -it'll keep fat and calories up .
I am not saying this diet is bad, I'm just saying it will be very hard for me. I don't even out and as is I'm restricting myself if I move away from home where cooking isn't as easy as it is now then I'll be doomed lol
90% of the battle for any way of eating is the mentality. Unless you were raised vegetarian, I'm willing to bet your former self said many of the same things before you first switched. The difference is that for vegetarian, you were more motivated to make it succeed and it eventually became your new normal.
Vegetarian keto is entirely doable and sustainable, from a menu/food availability perspective. From a look at your diary, I'm willing to bet that one of your struggles is that you're limiting yourself to 50g of total carbs. For someone like you, net carbs would be a lot better, and would supply you with the wiggle room needed for vegetarian protein sources, all while maintaining a sane caloric intake.
Here's a two week meal plan for you to illustrate what I'm talking about -- http://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2015/07/05/2-week-vegetarian-keto-diet-plan
A Reddit vegetarian keto group -- https://www.reddit.com/r/vegetarianketo
A database of vegetarian and vegan keto recipes -- http://meatfreeketo.com/meat-free-keto-recipes/
Also, have a look at Carb Nite, and again, read through Keto Gains, as you might benefit, mentally, from a TKD or CKD program.Why restrict myself when all is well. I just wanted to try it out because of the benefits and majorly FAT LOSS claims I heard. We all know nothing beats CICO -so only way to do both was my current caloric level.
Once it's over I'll go in maintenance for 3-4 days and then get in reasonable deficit again because not at my target yet.
All of what I said, above, though, is moot if your heart's just not in it, and frankly, that's what it looks like, given your responses and notes here. And that's okay. If you're not in the right mindset, and you're convinced you'll fail and it's not sustainable for you, then it won't be, no matter how many resources we try to provide you.
The problem I still have with your experiment is that you've got too many confounding factors. You want to test keto's fat loss, but you're consciously restricting calories to an artificially low level, and trying to continue progressing on what sounds like a relatively new strength training program. You're changing too many things at once, making it impossible to determine what worked and what didn't, and given the way you've changed things, you're at an increased chance of "failing" in all of your measured areas (either through regression, failed progression, or mediocre progression), because of all the changes and the extremes in the changes. Additionally, you're already attributing your problems to the lack of carbohydrate intake, as pointed out, above, which makes it stand to reason that anyone reading your posts here will get the message that your failures are due to the lack of carbs, and not the fact that you're...well...going about it the wrong way.
For someone like you, the "magic" of keto comes in reducing fat mass while maintaining lean mass and being able to bulk without also gaining as much fat mass in the process. The Ketogains guys go into this in a fair bit of detail, so I won't go into it here. Simply put, you're not going to suddenly go from 20% body fat to 12% body fat just by switching to keto. That's not how it works.8 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »viren19890 wrote: »I didn't blame anything on anyone or any diet. Just logging my experience.
While you might have said it outright, the focus of a number of your posts, even before you simply logged your experiences, were heavily on the effects of low carb and seem to all but ignore the caloric deficit:viren19890 wrote: »I'm on a 21 days ketogenic diet with a severe deficit. 18 days left now. In these 18 days I won't end up losing all my muscle right? and damn! muscle loss issue is a big thing- if it's true-once this 18 day period is over I'll be back to my regular carb intake because well I like muscles lolviren19890 wrote: »
That means Keto diet isn't long term sustainable for someone who plans to go on bulk and or does heavy lifting for the purpose of gaining muscle mass.Severe deficit? Most people will lose some muscle on a hypocaloric diet. Sufficient protein + resistance training should maintain muscle mass, even on a ketogenic diet.
But otherwise, most of that info looks legit. Except that "reduced exercise intensity" goes away after about a month.
Check out ketogains:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ketogains/
If you're on twitter, follow this guy:
https://twitter.com/SBakerMD
Ask him about muscle and intensity loss on a ketogenic diet.viren19890 wrote: »Also, it's unlikely for me to continue this long term because for me it is just not doable. My whole life would need shuffling around to be able to utilize this kind of program. I eat carbs being a vegetarian , most of my stuff has carbs in them. I don't eat out as often (maybe once-twice a month) rest is homemade, lentils, pulses, roti, naan, vegetables.
However, let's see where I am in my last 10 days.I cannot stay below 50 grams of carbs if I take my diet back up to 2000 a day deficit. My maintenance intake is suppose to be around 2700-2900 as I stated above.
Believe me I've tried -it can be done if I started reducing foods altogether and just drink glasses of coconut virgin oil lol -it'll keep fat and calories up .
I am not saying this diet is bad, I'm just saying it will be very hard for me. I don't even out and as is I'm restricting myself if I move away from home where cooking isn't as easy as it is now then I'll be doomed lol
90% of the battle for any way of eating is the mentality. Unless you were raised vegetarian, I'm willing to bet your former self said many of the same things before you first switched. The difference is that for vegetarian, you were more motivated to make it succeed and it eventually became your new normal.
Vegetarian keto is entirely doable and sustainable, from a menu/food availability perspective. From a look at your diary, I'm willing to bet that one of your struggles is that you're limiting yourself to 50g of total carbs. For someone like you, net carbs would be a lot better, and would supply you with the wiggle room needed for vegetarian protein sources, all while maintaining a sane caloric intake.
Here's a two week meal plan for you to illustrate what I'm talking about -- http://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2015/07/05/2-week-vegetarian-keto-diet-plan
A Reddit vegetarian keto group -- https://www.reddit.com/r/vegetarianketo
A database of vegetarian and vegan keto recipes -- http://meatfreeketo.com/meat-free-keto-recipes/
Also, have a look at Carb Nite, and again, read through Keto Gains, as you might benefit, mentally, from a TKD or CKD program.Why restrict myself when all is well. I just wanted to try it out because of the benefits and majorly FAT LOSS claims I heard. We all know nothing beats CICO -so only way to do both was my current caloric level.
Once it's over I'll go in maintenance for 3-4 days and then get in reasonable deficit again because not at my target yet.
All of what I said, above, though, is moot if your heart's just not in it, and frankly, that's what it looks like, given your responses and notes here. And that's okay. If you're not in the right mindset, and you're convinced you'll fail and it's not sustainable for you, then it won't be, no matter how many resources we try to provide you.
The problem I still have with your experiment is that you've got too many confounding factors. You want to test keto's fat loss, but you're consciously restricting calories to an artificially low level, and trying to continue progressing on what sounds like a relatively new strength training program. You're changing too many things at once, making it impossible to determine what worked and what didn't, and given the way you've changed things, you're at an increased chance of "failing" in all of your measured areas (either through regression, failed progression, or mediocre progression), because of all the changes and the extremes in the changes. Additionally, you're already attributing your problems to the lack of carbohydrate intake, as pointed out, above, which makes it stand to reason that anyone reading your posts here will get the message that your failures are due to the lack of carbs, and not the fact that you're...well...going about it the wrong way.
For someone like you, the "magic" of keto comes in reducing fat mass while maintaining lean mass and being able to bulk without also gaining as much fat mass in the process. The Ketogains guys go into this in a fair bit of detail, so I won't go into it here. Simply put, you're not going to suddenly go from 20% body fat to 12% body fat just by switching to keto. That's not how it works.
Dude you are taking things out of context. When I said
"That means Keto diet isn't long term sustainable " it was in response to what the poster above me responded to one of my question.
I'll be back to my regular carb intake because well I like muscles lol- this was also in response to the above poster pointing out that the studies I posted in my first post were factually true.
You just took things out of context-your remarks should be re-directed towards person who responded back to my original post because my responses were based on that.
I'm not new on 5/3/1 -been doing it since May 2015 and my total went from 645lbs to 910lbs.
When I started logging- it was to just track my progress because I also track food intake via this application. I thought having an open diary would allow posters to give me other suggestions food related.
The food chart you posted has eggs in almost all the dishes. I don't eat eggs, meat or seafood.
Also isn't keto suppose to be 5% carbs? and you are saying I'm in problem because I'm limiting my carbs to 50g a day?
I was raised Vegetarian , I turned into meat eating person then I switched back.
I will not argue with you any further because I literally don't know how much research has gone into this diet or if this is another fad.
One guy "keto gains" did something or talked about something and you are defending his words like gospel. If you really are on point with all the research and everything post here in this thread which is open and will be open to a bigger debate than here because well, on here it's locked from outside world.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10398769/if-ketogenic-diet-is-the-answer-to-all-our-problems-why-is-still-based-around-caloric-values#latest
If you still have a hard time understanding what i'm saying, I'll say it again.
I am not belittling this diet, I am just trying out how it works for me. I'm not saying this is bad or this is good. I am just logging my experience with the aspects of how it worked for me in my own set parameters maintaining lower than 50g Carbs a day.
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Also, only reason I even joined this group because I wanted to hear different side from people who eat very little carbs. Just so I don't get bombarded with one sided theories/studies but it's like ,the same thing here.
That's why I am asking you since you seem knowledgeable to post in the above thread so I can get to hear both sides.
We all will get to learn something new.1 -
@viren19890 Keto can be achieved by a sedentary person up to 50g a day and a more active person can usually achieve it with more. Possibly even over 100 - 150g.
That's why they are saying it's easier than you realize. Because you don't have to be as restrictive as you're thinking to maintain ketosis with your level of activity.3 -
OP, you have conflicting goals...hence the struggle. Nevermind the added complexity of a vegan keto.
Diet competition, wanting PRs every week, severe deficit = asking for trouble.
You started the thread asking about muscle loss. I assume you're informed enough to know that ANY dieting is catabolic to some degree. I wish you the best.0 -
9 days to go
Weight has dropped to 193.8 lbs and bf% is 18.8.
Deadlift and Squats today- this deficit is having it's toll to say the least. However, I knew this going in but I wasn't mentally prepared for this because the feeling of "not being able" to lift what I used to -is new.
I know strength will come back when calories go back up and I'll be stronger than before.
Strength is low (my theory) because of possible accumulated fatigue because I took zero breaks.
Energy during the day is normal -I don't feel lazy or have a need to take naps.
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@viren19890 - Something else with a ketogenic diet is that the mitochondria have to be "rewired" to burn fats. During this time, strength, energy, and stamina during training take a major hit during this process. That is generally why people suggest deloading or backing off of training levels during adaption (considered to be the first 4-16 weeks of a ketogenic diet). That being said, following a ketogenic diet for such a short period of time basically puts you through the hellish parts of adapting without letting you get to the "good stuff," for lack of a more scientific explanation.
The muscle mitochondria can run off of carbs (will hit a wall when muscle glucose and liver stores are burned through) or fats (tends not to hit a wall once muscles are adapted to be fueled from fats, as long as your body fat percentage is sufficient that your body does not predict damage if you continue to burn your own body fat - most of us are NOWHERE near this level).
I think that most folks above are just concerned that you aren't able to get "the most" out of what a ketogenic dietary program has to offer by combining too many factors. So therefore, particularly considering the short timeframe you're evaluating, the higher deficit you're using during your CUT, your plan to not include deloading or breaks, and all of that combined, you're going to end up with a skewed perspective of what this plan could actually accomplish for your lifting and your cutting/bulking process.
I would challenge you to continue this dietary intake program another four weeks (or even twelve, if you're feeling spunky) after your planned end to it, not eating at such a drastic deficit, and addressing the full tenets of the program. By then, you should have "rewired" some or most of your muscle mitochondria, you should be on your way to becoming fat adapted, you will regain some of your strength and your ability to record new PR's, and you might get a different glimpse of what this dietary plan can offer you.
I do understand that it's harder to be compliant to the fat levels and carb levels given your personal dietary restrictions (vegetarianism), but if you include a slightly higher carb level directly prior (within 30 minutes) of your workout, you can burn through those excess carbs BEFORE returning to burn fats for your fuel - WITHOUT REMOVING YOURSELF FROM NUTRITIONAL KETOSIS. (The more "hardcore" folks who stay at the 20 grams of carbs or 5% of carbs are essentially staying in what is considered to be the "induction" phase, rather than identifying their own individual carb thresholds to make this dietary plan long term maintainable. That being said, a ketogenic diet was created to mitigate issues with seizures and such in children, and it was after the dietary plan was developed that all the other benefits were identified. That's a lot of why there is no one single hard and fast "way to do it right." And that is why so many folks say that each person must evaluate their own body's reactions to this way of eating/dietary plan, because your own OPTIMAL VERSION of nutritional ketosis is likely to be very different from mine, or anyone else's!)
Also, due to the fact that you work out regularly and extensively, you will likely be one of the lucky few who can going back and forth between carb-fueling and fat-fueling, as long as you do not rely ONLY one form or the other. If that happens, I can see your strength training regimen and cutting/bulking to improve exponentially, as you essentially gain "the best of both worlds." This tends to be the case for those not otherwise metabolically challenged.
Personally, I'm not at the point where I can lift as intensely as you do due to outlying health issues, but I look forward to doing more - especially knowing things about how much more intuitively my muscles will work FOR me down the road. I don't recall offhand if anyone mentioned it, but another good book I've been suggested to read is "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance," I believe by Phinney and Volek?4 -
viren19890 wrote: »Dragonwolf wrote: »viren19890 wrote: »I didn't blame anything on anyone or any diet. Just logging my experience.
While you might have said it outright, the focus of a number of your posts, even before you simply logged your experiences, were heavily on the effects of low carb and seem to all but ignore the caloric deficit:viren19890 wrote: »I'm on a 21 days ketogenic diet with a severe deficit. 18 days left now. In these 18 days I won't end up losing all my muscle right? and damn! muscle loss issue is a big thing- if it's true-once this 18 day period is over I'll be back to my regular carb intake because well I like muscles lolviren19890 wrote: »
That means Keto diet isn't long term sustainable for someone who plans to go on bulk and or does heavy lifting for the purpose of gaining muscle mass.Severe deficit? Most people will lose some muscle on a hypocaloric diet. Sufficient protein + resistance training should maintain muscle mass, even on a ketogenic diet.
But otherwise, most of that info looks legit. Except that "reduced exercise intensity" goes away after about a month.
Check out ketogains:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ketogains/
If you're on twitter, follow this guy:
https://twitter.com/SBakerMD
Ask him about muscle and intensity loss on a ketogenic diet.viren19890 wrote: »Also, it's unlikely for me to continue this long term because for me it is just not doable. My whole life would need shuffling around to be able to utilize this kind of program. I eat carbs being a vegetarian , most of my stuff has carbs in them. I don't eat out as often (maybe once-twice a month) rest is homemade, lentils, pulses, roti, naan, vegetables.
However, let's see where I am in my last 10 days.I cannot stay below 50 grams of carbs if I take my diet back up to 2000 a day deficit. My maintenance intake is suppose to be around 2700-2900 as I stated above.
Believe me I've tried -it can be done if I started reducing foods altogether and just drink glasses of coconut virgin oil lol -it'll keep fat and calories up .
I am not saying this diet is bad, I'm just saying it will be very hard for me. I don't even out and as is I'm restricting myself if I move away from home where cooking isn't as easy as it is now then I'll be doomed lol
90% of the battle for any way of eating is the mentality. Unless you were raised vegetarian, I'm willing to bet your former self said many of the same things before you first switched. The difference is that for vegetarian, you were more motivated to make it succeed and it eventually became your new normal.
Vegetarian keto is entirely doable and sustainable, from a menu/food availability perspective. From a look at your diary, I'm willing to bet that one of your struggles is that you're limiting yourself to 50g of total carbs. For someone like you, net carbs would be a lot better, and would supply you with the wiggle room needed for vegetarian protein sources, all while maintaining a sane caloric intake.
Here's a two week meal plan for you to illustrate what I'm talking about -- http://ketodietapp.com/Blog/post/2015/07/05/2-week-vegetarian-keto-diet-plan
A Reddit vegetarian keto group -- https://www.reddit.com/r/vegetarianketo
A database of vegetarian and vegan keto recipes -- http://meatfreeketo.com/meat-free-keto-recipes/
Also, have a look at Carb Nite, and again, read through Keto Gains, as you might benefit, mentally, from a TKD or CKD program.Why restrict myself when all is well. I just wanted to try it out because of the benefits and majorly FAT LOSS claims I heard. We all know nothing beats CICO -so only way to do both was my current caloric level.
Once it's over I'll go in maintenance for 3-4 days and then get in reasonable deficit again because not at my target yet.
All of what I said, above, though, is moot if your heart's just not in it, and frankly, that's what it looks like, given your responses and notes here. And that's okay. If you're not in the right mindset, and you're convinced you'll fail and it's not sustainable for you, then it won't be, no matter how many resources we try to provide you.
The problem I still have with your experiment is that you've got too many confounding factors. You want to test keto's fat loss, but you're consciously restricting calories to an artificially low level, and trying to continue progressing on what sounds like a relatively new strength training program. You're changing too many things at once, making it impossible to determine what worked and what didn't, and given the way you've changed things, you're at an increased chance of "failing" in all of your measured areas (either through regression, failed progression, or mediocre progression), because of all the changes and the extremes in the changes. Additionally, you're already attributing your problems to the lack of carbohydrate intake, as pointed out, above, which makes it stand to reason that anyone reading your posts here will get the message that your failures are due to the lack of carbs, and not the fact that you're...well...going about it the wrong way.
For someone like you, the "magic" of keto comes in reducing fat mass while maintaining lean mass and being able to bulk without also gaining as much fat mass in the process. The Ketogains guys go into this in a fair bit of detail, so I won't go into it here. Simply put, you're not going to suddenly go from 20% body fat to 12% body fat just by switching to keto. That's not how it works.
Dude you are taking things out of context. When I said
"That means Keto diet isn't long term sustainable " it was in response to what the poster above me responded to one of my question.
I'll be back to my regular carb intake because well I like muscles lol- this was also in response to the above poster pointing out that the studies I posted in my first post were factually true.
You just took things out of context-your remarks should be re-directed towards person who responded back to my original post because my responses were based on that.
I'm not new on 5/3/1 -been doing it since May 2015 and my total went from 645lbs to 910lbs.
When I started logging- it was to just track my progress because I also track food intake via this application. I thought having an open diary would allow posters to give me other suggestions food related.
The food chart you posted has eggs in almost all the dishes. I don't eat eggs, meat or seafood.
Also isn't keto suppose to be 5% carbs? and you are saying I'm in problem because I'm limiting my carbs to 50g a day?
I was raised Vegetarian , I turned into meat eating person then I switched back.
I will not argue with you any further because I literally don't know how much research has gone into this diet or if this is another fad.
One guy "keto gains" did something or talked about something and you are defending his words like gospel. If you really are on point with all the research and everything post here in this thread which is open and will be open to a bigger debate than here because well, on here it's locked from outside world.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10398769/if-ketogenic-diet-is-the-answer-to-all-our-problems-why-is-still-based-around-caloric-values#latest
>>If you still have a hard time understanding what i'm saying, I'll say it again.<<
I am not belittling this diet, I am just trying out how it works for me. I'm not saying this is bad or this is good. I am just logging my experience with the aspects of how it worked for me in my own set parameters maintaining lower than 50g Carbs a day.
Mod hat on-
That's a tad snippy and a little insulting. Which violates the site-wise Community Guidelines.
http://myfitnesspal.com/welcome/guidelines
But also...
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Just doin' dat job.
If you have any other questions about the guidelines, please PM me or the other mods (@Dragonwolf, @FIT_Goat, and @Sabine_Stroehm
/removing mod hat
Have a great day, and please carry on the interesting discussion. 1 -
I didn't know - sorry about that.1
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »@viren19890 - Something else with a ketogenic diet is that the mitochondria have to be "rewired" to burn fats. During this time, strength, energy, and stamina during training take a major hit during this process. That is generally why people suggest deloading or backing off of training levels during adaption (considered to be the first 4-16 weeks of a ketogenic diet). That being said, following a ketogenic diet for such a short period of time basically puts you through the hellish parts of adapting without letting you get to the "good stuff," for lack of a more scientific explanation.
The muscle mitochondria can run off of carbs (will hit a wall when muscle glucose and liver stores are burned through) or fats (tends not to hit a wall once muscles are adapted to be fueled from fats, as long as your body fat percentage is sufficient that your body does not predict damage if you continue to burn your own body fat - most of us are NOWHERE near this level).
I think that most folks above are just concerned that you aren't able to get "the most" out of what a ketogenic dietary program has to offer by combining too many factors. So therefore, particularly considering the short timeframe you're evaluating, the higher deficit you're using during your CUT, your plan to not include deloading or breaks, and all of that combined, you're going to end up with a skewed perspective of what this plan could actually accomplish for your lifting and your cutting/bulking process.
I would challenge you to continue this dietary intake program another four weeks (or even twelve, if you're feeling spunky) after your planned end to it, not eating at such a drastic deficit, and addressing the full tenets of the program. By then, you should have "rewired" some or most of your muscle mitochondria, you should be on your way to becoming fat adapted, you will regain some of your strength and your ability to record new PR's, and you might get a different glimpse of what this dietary plan can offer you.
I do understand that it's harder to be compliant to the fat levels and carb levels given your personal dietary restrictions (vegetarianism), but if you include a slightly higher carb level directly prior (within 30 minutes) of your workout, you can burn through those excess carbs BEFORE returning to burn fats for your fuel - WITHOUT REMOVING YOURSELF FROM NUTRITIONAL KETOSIS. (The more "hardcore" folks who stay at the 20 grams of carbs or 5% of carbs are essentially staying in what is considered to be the "induction" phase, rather than identifying their own individual carb thresholds to make this dietary plan long term maintainable. That being said, a ketogenic diet was created to mitigate issues with seizures and such in children, and it was after the dietary plan was developed that all the other benefits were identified. That's a lot of why there is no one single hard and fast "way to do it right." And that is why so many folks say that each person must evaluate their own body's reactions to this way of eating/dietary plan, because your own OPTIMAL VERSION of nutritional ketosis is likely to be very different from mine, or anyone else's!)
Also, due to the fact that you work out regularly and extensively, you will likely be one of the lucky few who can going back and forth between carb-fueling and fat-fueling, as long as you do not rely ONLY one form or the other. If that happens, I can see your strength training regimen and cutting/bulking to improve exponentially, as you essentially gain "the best of both worlds." This tends to be the case for those not otherwise metabolically challenged.
Personally, I'm not at the point where I can lift as intensely as you do due to outlying health issues, but I look forward to doing more - especially knowing things about how much more intuitively my muscles will work FOR me down the road. I don't recall offhand if anyone mentioned it, but another good book I've been suggested to read is "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance," I believe by Phinney and Volek?
Thanks for the advice and writing it all out in detail.
I will be eating higher Fats since I know about this but I never got a chance to learn about carb cycling and other things like those. I still don't and I'll be reading on it by McDonald Lyle's book on it as well.
I have no problem with eating higher fat diet but for me currently -if you look at my diary for last 12 days or so I've eaten the same foods because no way how I adjusted my diary I went over the 15% carbs (50g) limit. So I was like let's try it for 21 days because I was going to be on heavy cutting for last 21 days as well.
Originally this thread started from me asking about what a poster posted in one of my carb related thread and his responses got interpreted as my own opinion and things boiled up.
I should've started a different thread for logging.
Anyhow I would look in what carb-cycling is and I'm reading more on vegetarian ketosis. The idea also seems rigid because it's either you are in ketosis or not. For example I'm planning a vacation in Oct until mid of Nov- I'd be out and no way I'd be able to measure anything. There will be carbs and all of them from vegetables/rice/coffee- and 50g is nothing at all. It'll have me kicked out right away.
The way things are moving -most likely I'll be continuing this longer but on higher amount of calories until end of June. However, I'll still be deficit but it'll be a reasonable deficit.
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viren19890 wrote: »KnitOrMiss wrote: »@viren19890 - Something else with a ketogenic diet is that the mitochondria have to be "rewired" to burn fats. During this time, strength, energy, and stamina during training take a major hit during this process. That is generally why people suggest deloading or backing off of training levels during adaption (considered to be the first 4-16 weeks of a ketogenic diet). That being said, following a ketogenic diet for such a short period of time basically puts you through the hellish parts of adapting without letting you get to the "good stuff," for lack of a more scientific explanation.
The muscle mitochondria can run off of carbs (will hit a wall when muscle glucose and liver stores are burned through) or fats (tends not to hit a wall once muscles are adapted to be fueled from fats, as long as your body fat percentage is sufficient that your body does not predict damage if you continue to burn your own body fat - most of us are NOWHERE near this level).
I think that most folks above are just concerned that you aren't able to get "the most" out of what a ketogenic dietary program has to offer by combining too many factors. So therefore, particularly considering the short timeframe you're evaluating, the higher deficit you're using during your CUT, your plan to not include deloading or breaks, and all of that combined, you're going to end up with a skewed perspective of what this plan could actually accomplish for your lifting and your cutting/bulking process.
I would challenge you to continue this dietary intake program another four weeks (or even twelve, if you're feeling spunky) after your planned end to it, not eating at such a drastic deficit, and addressing the full tenets of the program. By then, you should have "rewired" some or most of your muscle mitochondria, you should be on your way to becoming fat adapted, you will regain some of your strength and your ability to record new PR's, and you might get a different glimpse of what this dietary plan can offer you.
I do understand that it's harder to be compliant to the fat levels and carb levels given your personal dietary restrictions (vegetarianism), but if you include a slightly higher carb level directly prior (within 30 minutes) of your workout, you can burn through those excess carbs BEFORE returning to burn fats for your fuel - WITHOUT REMOVING YOURSELF FROM NUTRITIONAL KETOSIS. (The more "hardcore" folks who stay at the 20 grams of carbs or 5% of carbs are essentially staying in what is considered to be the "induction" phase, rather than identifying their own individual carb thresholds to make this dietary plan long term maintainable. That being said, a ketogenic diet was created to mitigate issues with seizures and such in children, and it was after the dietary plan was developed that all the other benefits were identified. That's a lot of why there is no one single hard and fast "way to do it right." And that is why so many folks say that each person must evaluate their own body's reactions to this way of eating/dietary plan, because your own OPTIMAL VERSION of nutritional ketosis is likely to be very different from mine, or anyone else's!)
Also, due to the fact that you work out regularly and extensively, you will likely be one of the lucky few who can going back and forth between carb-fueling and fat-fueling, as long as you do not rely ONLY one form or the other. If that happens, I can see your strength training regimen and cutting/bulking to improve exponentially, as you essentially gain "the best of both worlds." This tends to be the case for those not otherwise metabolically challenged.
Personally, I'm not at the point where I can lift as intensely as you do due to outlying health issues, but I look forward to doing more - especially knowing things about how much more intuitively my muscles will work FOR me down the road. I don't recall offhand if anyone mentioned it, but another good book I've been suggested to read is "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance," I believe by Phinney and Volek?
Thanks for the advice and writing it all out in detail.
I will be eating higher Fats since I know about this but I never got a chance to learn about carb cycling and other things like those. I still don't and I'll be reading on it by McDonald Lyle's book on it as well.
I have no problem with eating higher fat diet but for me currently -if you look at my diary for last 12 days or so I've eaten the same foods because no way how I adjusted my diary I went over the 15% carbs (50g) limit. So I was like let's try it for 21 days because I was going to be on heavy cutting for last 21 days as well.
Originally this thread started from me asking about what a poster posted in one of my carb related thread and his responses got interpreted as my own opinion and things boiled up.
I should've started a different thread for logging.
Anyhow I would look in what carb-cycling is and I'm reading more on vegetarian ketosis. The idea also seems rigid because it's either you are in ketosis or not. For example I'm planning a vacation in Oct until mid of Nov- I'd be out and no way I'd be able to measure anything. There will be carbs and all of them from vegetables/rice/coffee- and 50g is nothing at all. It'll have me kicked out right away.
The way things are moving -most likely I'll be continuing this longer but on higher amount of calories until end of June. However, I'll still be deficit but it'll be a reasonable deficit.
You're welcome. I love chatting about all this good stuff, because I ALWAYS learn something new. Sometimes even thinking of different ways to word things makes a light bulb of realization go off in my own head! And I'm glad this thread brought up new knowledge for you, too, with the carb cycling and all that such that you can now dig into and research further.
And your diary - I agree that's it's somewhat repetitive, but as long as you're getting the nutrients you need, which appears to be the case, I'd say you're golden. Look like a fairly well balanced approach, since you don't eat eggs or any of the sources I personally would use for proteins, rather than a powder, but I'm sure you researched to find the best quality powder for your needs, so it's probably no worries there either.
I don't think it's necessary to have started another thread - or even worry about where this thread originated, personally, but I'm the type who just moves on and gets to the heart of what is being asked or discussed, so that's me. LOL For me, having the context was more important. Many many of the folks in this group have done extensive scientific research as to what works best for most folks and what works best for themselves personally, and many of us have had such life-changing events happen because of changing how we eat that we're very passionate about sharing that information with others, and sometimes we forget (I know I DO!) how strongly we can come across. Not saying that's an issue here, just providing you with some context.
See, and that's where I disagree, somewhat...that ketosis isn't rigid. In this thread, http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10380393/meticulous-may#latest, on page 10, there was some detailed discussion about "what ketosis is to me." For me, achieving fat adapation is far more important than whether or not I'm "in ketosis." The body makes ketones on it's own anyway - whether overnight while you sleep, when you workout sometimes, when you eat under 150 grams of carbs a day, etc. So making sure my body can use the ketones I make is far more important to me that "being in ketosis" which is very difficult for some folks to define personally due to individual discrepancies.
I don't want to bombard you too much, but this was my response on that particular topic...
flash0826 wrote: »
» show previous quotes
Thanks for the information. How do you determine that you are in ketosis? In response to who I wrote my post toward, no certain individual. I just considered this thread a challenge and instead of hearing success all I was hearing was failure. I know that life happens but it is very easy to make excuses. I right now am battling two diseases that are similar arthritis and MS. As far as the side effects. I also travel and stay at hotels a lot. We also have two preemies in the hospital fighting for their lives. We all have reasons to go off this diet plan. If you really want to accomplish something you plan ahead and there is always food available for anybody to eat that fits in with this diet plan. Unless everybody just want somebody to hold there hand and not push them to be successful then…
Sorry I am not like that, I will push you to be your best and to be successful and I hope that you would do the same for me. I am sorry that people are going through hard times. But, you are responsible for what you put into your body and I am going to encourage you to lay off the carbs! According to everything that I have read it is not that easy to get into Ketosis and it is very easy to get out of it by a carb binge. and then it takes most people one to two weeks to get back into it. You are an unusual case according to experts. Hopefully I will be like you but I don't want to wreck the progress I am making by checking it out.
@flash0826 - I mainly determine it anecdotally, not scientifically. I don't use the urine sticks, as they are inefficient and only test what is wasted. I don't blood test or breath test - I just don't have the funds. But, I do stick to what I know works. I go for simple, repeated meals. But my biggest test is whether I get sluggish or lethargic with meals (a big deal with my insulin resistance - I would get postprandial somnolence and I would literally narc out/nod off 30-90 minutes after a meal with little to no warning. My body would overload and just shut down to process things. It could be as little as jerking my head up after a dip of my neck, or as long as a 15-30 minute nap - this was at home, late at night, etc.). If I don't react to my normal, low carb food this way, I know my insulin is more balanced and level, and therefore my body is functioning normally - well, my new normal anyway.
Also, I judge this by whether I get an electrolyte imbalance after an off plan food (often called "keto flu"). If I don't get that feeling, I find it hard to believe that I slipped out of ketosis "completely" or whatever it is scientifically called.
Another factor I use is this determining factor is the different body hiccups and adjustment that come with fat adapting. Days 2-4, 7, 14, 21, 28, etc. - spikes in hunger, increased need for sodium, killer carb cravings out of nowhere, messed up female cycles, etc. These are all huge signs of the body converting to being a "fat burner" rather than a "sugar burner." So when I don't encounter these stages again, I don't consider myself to be "out."
Though, in reflection, I guess that I am really referring to being in a "fat adapted state" rather than whether or not I am technically in "nutritional ketosis," etc. My body can slip in and out of that NK state without too much consequence, as long as I don't slip out of the the FA state, I guess.
For example, despite previous outdoor activity that threw my body off so much that it took weeks to get back to normal, I spent 3 days at least partially outdoors/in the heat (at least 2-4 hours steady each time, closer to 6 once or twice) with minimal consequences, and that included a highER carb meal (for me, so around 50-100 grams of carbs in a single meal) without the feelings of getting out of ketosis and back in that happen for some.
So I guess that my terms are a little different, considering my own background/history/medical issues. As long as I'm fully functional/firing on all cylinders, I consider that since this is my plan to eat in some form of low carb for life that I have to find a way to make that sustainable and enjoyable. Yes, that means that my losses are a slower rates than that of others, and that is fine by me. My bloodwork is steadily improving (I'm currently getting tested every 6 months by my endocrinologist), and I feel great, and I can still have the occasional "life happens" moments, making realistic decisions when faced with crossroads, without too far of a set back.
But, I also have the mindset that this is my way of life, this is my NORMAL now... I learned the hard way what it meant to go off plan for weeks instead of bites, and it set me back quite a bit - enough for me to be able to say, "uh uh - not happening again, no sir!" My subconscious mantra is, "The next bite is on plan - no matter what the last bite was." Combined with, "indulgences should be choices, finite choices, with time limits and firm plans to return to plan at a specific instance." For whatever reason, when I choose to eat something not great for me, as long as I acknowledge the choice, and say, "this meal/day is all that will be off plan, my next meal will be on plan," etc., it works for me. Because I've always been the type who would mentally rebel the more I tried to force myself to comply - even when the plan was mine. When I just "mentally sell myself" that this IS the plan, it bypasses the inner rebel to some degree.
All of that long-winded answer, I hope to help you in some degree, to understand what I meant, rather than the letter of what I said. I am very sorry to hear of your personal struggles and of those of your two dear ones! I guess I am lucky in that my mindset has shift in that I take comfort in my dietary plan most of the time in stressful times. There's one decision I don't have to make. It makes it easier for me to "cope" with my situations without "losing my mind," etc. I have a bit of a different mindset than most, though. And I still stress eat and eat things I shouldn't. I don't have the blessing/curse combo of conditions like MS and RA that will respond immediately to let me know I'm non-dietary compliant.
As I mentioned before, I plan for this to be a life long way of eating for me - so I have to figure out the ins and outs of what I can and can't tolerate, what will make this plan OPTIMUM FOR ME, etc. That means testing, and slow going, and all of that.
However, I can be a total whip-cracking type of person when someone expresses dismay at slipping or lack of progress, or what have you. But I'm a more flexible type - and while my default setting is "tough love," I tend to find that no one response works for someone all the time. I try to be supportive of the person slipping, projecting confidence that they will return to their plan, all while encouraging them to do better next time - and still love and forgive themselves, too, I guess. We're all human. We will all fail. And when we get back up, we don't need always someone beating us up. Maybe we need an example or a partner or a mentor or a cheerleader. What everyone needs is different. But I'm not going to be a browbeater, because that isn't comfortable to me. If chewing your tail off with some tough love and reality doses helps, that's fine, but maybe this time, you need someone to remind you that to err is human, make a better plan and improve performance next time... I try to tailor my responses to the personalities of those I know - or to verbiage that that person is either "getting" or another angle from what they are "not getting."
To me, this post was full of success because everyone learned from mistakes, corrected errors that started, and found coping methods/techniques for stressful times. And those that might have faceplanted, well, they still dusted themselves off, stood up, and came back swinging again... And to me, that's the true life long winning....
I wish you the best of luck as you continue on your life's journey. Experimenting to find what works best for you is that best thing you can do. And setbacks aren't failures. They are data - data you can learn from and use to modify your "game plan," etc. To me, when we stop learning and adapting, that is when we fail. Not when we have a setback. We only fail when we don't learn from something. Some of my best progression has come from falling flat on my bo-hiney.
Best of luck.
flash0826 wrote: »
Knitormiss- thanks for the information. I had no idea that there was anything but either being in the state of ketosis or out of it. I didn't know that there was a gray area. I am new to this.
Also I thought that this thread was specifically to be meticulous which I took as a challenge thread where you wanted to be very successful. Otherwise I can do a good share of handholding as well.
Absolutely, there are thresholds and all along this process. We had a former member who could maintain ketosis at over 200 carbs a day due to his massive exercise load (20 mile bike rides, etc.). It's all about individual success rates and how it works for you. Some people lose better at 100 grams of carbs than 15 grams of carbs. It's all about how your body handles it. There are a few technical benefits to going ketogenic versus just traditional low carb, but most of us find that line to be blurred once we find our individual carb thresholds and such. Be sure to check out the stickied "Launchpad" post on the main page for a HUGE number of reading resources that can explain this much more scientifically than I can.
Ketosis is a low carb plan, but not all low carb plans are ketogenic. Ketogenic plans are generally <50 grams total, usually <20 grams total to start. Low carb includes any conscious action to reduce carb consumption, and medically that starts at <150 grams of carbs a day, generally <100 carbs a day. So there are so many ways to make it work under that umbrella. As many of folks around here say, what works for you will be a N=1 scenario. Your plan will never ever be identical to anyone else's naturally occurring plan. I wish you luck finding all the fun things to try and play with to make this plan ROCK for you.
And you are right, this thread is about aiming for Meticulous tracking - and I agree, they were going for success, but I feel that you can learn from a "failure" sometimes better than a success, so my opinion is that as long as there are takeaways that can be translated to REAL LIFE after this month, it's still a successful program. Good to know you'll fit right in here with the rest of us wacky folks! LOL
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Apparently a post can be too long, because MFP just told me so. Here is the rest of my response:
I went off plan for the entire week of US Thanksgiving last year. I might have still had a keto friendly breakfast, but I ate things like Pie and potatoes and stuffing/dressing and all manner of ridiculous foods for most of that week. At the end of the week, I had gained 10 pounds. The following Monday, I was fully back on my ketogenic plan. By the end of that week, I had lost 9.5 pounds of that 10 pounds of weight gain, my fat adaption allowed me to spring back into the ketogenic benefits immediately, and I had ZERO "low carb flu" or any of that mess. So a week of doing the best I could and "enjoying life" did not have a massive detrimental effect.
Sadly, because of this "success," I had a far greater lapse the following two months (part of each month), and the recovery was a bit more involved... So with your extended vacation, it's all about choice. Since you know it will be more carb laden, you might consider upping your carbs slowly in the approaching weeks so that you don't have the "hit a wall" feeling and shock your metabolism negatively.
But, from the whole overall perspective, ketosis isn't a "hard and fast" thing, per se. Ketone production happens naturally anyway - so it's all about managing things...goals, and all of that. For me, experimenting for what works best for you - and kicking the rigid ideas to the curb in favor of individual threshold testing and such, that's what makes this plan sustainable and lifelong/successful, etc. for me. I do things individually myself that others don't, and others do things I don't do. That doesn't make one plan right or wrong.... just different!0 -
The food chart you posted has eggs in almost all the dishes. I don't eat eggs, meat or seafood.
So, you're vegan, then? Then look at the vegan section of the other set of recipes -- http://meatfreeketo.com/category/recipes/vegan/
Also, just because the one sample menu has eggs doesn't mean you have to discard the whole thing. Look at the other stuff they're including and adapt your own food plan accordingly.I'm not new on 5/3/1 -been doing it since May 2015 and my total went from 645lbs to 910lbs.
In terms of powerlifting, you're still relatively new until you stop getting linear progression from most of the common routines, like 5/3/1. Lifting with such a program for a year is still well within that realm. If deloading to work on things like form have not crossed your mind, then odds are good your progression has still been pretty linear and you've seen no need to deload.Also isn't keto suppose to be 5% carbs? and you are saying I'm in problem because I'm limiting my carbs to 50g a day?
Not necessarily, and even so, it's generally net carbs, especially with Atkin's style plans. This means carbs minus fiber. So yes, if you're limiting yourself to 50g total per day on a vegan diet, then you're causing yourself problems. If nothing else, switch to net carbs and you'll likely be better off for that, alone. The reason there's a difference is because fiber doesn't generally have an impact on blood sugar, which is one of the big reasons for limiting carbs to begin with.
Those who are quite a bit more active can tolerate more effective carbs without losing ketosis. A great example of this is Dr. Peter Attia's experience -- http://eatingacademy.com/sports-and-nutrition/ketones-carbohydrates-can-co-exist .
His personal example is extreme, but illustrates this concept quite well. Due to his exertion, he was able to consume 321g of carbohydrates while maintaining a blood ketone level of 2.2mM, which is right about the sweet spot of ketosis according to the major proponents.
In other words, the 50g thing is a guideline, and is geared more toward the people who are sedentary, as they're the bulk of the target audience for programs like Atkins.I will not argue with you any further because I literally don't know how much research has gone into this diet or if this is another fad.
The Launch Pad has but a fraction of the research that has gone into this diet, and will point you to more. Phinney and Volek are the top researchers currently on low carb in general and for performance. The ketogenic diet has been around in one form or another since at least the 1800s, and has been studied pretty extensively for its various medical benefits since the 1920s. The Atkins based forms that we now see it in and most people are familiar with and use for general purpose has been around since the 1950s. So, while some things/specifics haven't yet been studied, the diet in general has been developed and studied for over a century at this point.
That said, any way of eating can be a "fad" if the adherent treats it as such. A fad diet is, by definition, one that eschews long term health in favor of short term scale results. Low carb isn't inherently that kind of diet, but if the adherent treats it as such, that's what it will be. Hence the emphasis on things like increasing your carb allotment to allow for enough plant sources of protein.One guy "keto gains" did something or talked about something and you are defending his words like gospel.
Not at all, actually. I've reiterated reading the keto gains stuff, because it is by far one of the best resources for practical application of a keto diet as a power lifter, and your responses suggest that you haven't read what's been linked. DarthLuiggi, the guy that runs it, has been lifting while keto for well over a decade and has coached a great many other keto powerlifters. He has both the research and the experience to back up everything he says.
Basically, referring you to him is roughly equivalent to referring you to Mark Rippetoe's work for information on lifting mechanics and form.3 -
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Thanks all for the responses.
I see the word insulin thrown around a lot. If we do get into the "good/bad carbs" situation and Glycemic index- aren't vegetables the safest kind? hurting the insulin in the least possible way?
That is what I consume. So shouldn't my insulin stay stable anyways?
Truth be told when one diet any diet it may be- talks about prohibiting an entire food category -I get defensive for MY OWN SELF because why should I restrict myself. As is my diet is restrictive being a vegetarian and all.
However since I've learned about fats-it's highly likely that I will utilize this information in my life now.1 -
8 days to go
192.8 lbs today- so dropped another 1lb today.
I was grocery shopping and I've realized even jams, creamers, yogurts are more Carb oriented than fat. Everything is labelled and sold as "low fat" or "not fat".
I'm getting strange looks from family members since I'm deficit and then they see my finding high fat yogurt and making smoothies and putting cheese on my veggies.
I've tried briefly once explaining them that fat or carbs is basically energy -for weight loss deficit matters. Fat is considered better because it allows us to utilize stored fats as well during a deficit.
I think if the word "Fats" were replaced with "Unicorn dust" people would have an easier time to understand.
Fat makes you obese and fat helps you get slim too but since they are same people think eating high "fatty" foods will not make us lose weight.6 -
This is going to be my answer from now on when people ask me how I lost weight.viren19890 wrote: »....I think if the word "Fats" were replaced with "Unicorn dust" people would have an easier time to understand. ...5 -
Fats do not make you obese. That is a marketing myth to be able to let agriculture sell more grains. Carbs that don't get burned up in activity or stored in the muscles/organs, that's what converts to what we know as body fat. It is the combination of high fats and high carbs TOGETHER that is bad for us - the body doesn't know which to use first, so it starts with carbs as they take more processing power. I've never been one to buy into industry marketing, so I figure I'm just ahead of the curve, that the rest of the world may or may not ever catch up...
As for the insulin issue, my body can't tell the different between a potato, a banana, or a Snickers bar. Most of our bodies can't. Once a food item is processed to usable sugars, there's not much distinction. If you are sticking with low starch/high fiber veggies, you're mostly safe, but any carb veggies will cause a release of insulin in order to process the incoming glucose. ANY. So no, our insulin doesn't stay level. It is released when the body's blood sugar levels get low, inducing hunger. It is released when we have too much glucose incoming, as insulin is what helps transport it into the cells where it can be used.
Our blood glucose/sugars tend to stay more level if we're eating a diet not using insulin, but the sheer act of insulin alone affects the blood sugar levels. A person who is active and eating nutritiously will generally have fairly natural glucose control, but any number of things compromise this reaction.
The recent thread on insulin resistance and how insulin works might help you to understand this a little better.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10406641/a-new-paradigm-of-insulin-resistance#latest
Others can also provide more links about how the body uses insulin to get glucose where it needs to go. In fact, cholesterol is REQUIRED to move glucose to the brain, as well. I be that would bend your family members' brains even further! LOL0 -
This is going to be my answer from now on when people ask me how I lost weight.viren19890 wrote: »....I think if the word "Fats" were replaced with "Unicorn dust" people would have an easier time to understand. ...
I'm so doing that.
When I lost the weight, people came up to me at family birthday parties and asked me WHAT PILL I took to lose the weight!!! I kid you not.
It's called eating right and doin' tha work.
No. JK, it was unicorn dust in a gel cap.
smfh3 -
baconslave wrote: »
This is going to be my answer from now on when people ask me how I lost weight.viren19890 wrote: »....I think if the word "Fats" were replaced with "Unicorn dust" people would have an easier time to understand. ...
I'm so doing that.
When I lost the weight, people came up to me at family birthday parties and asked me WHAT PILL I took to lose the weight!!! I kid you not.
It's called eating right and doin' tha work.
No. JK, it was unicorn dust in a gel cap.
smfh
I'd probably tell them, "the hardest pill to swallow: REALITY."1 -
viren19890 wrote: »8 days to go
192.8 lbs today- so dropped another 1lb today.
I was grocery shopping and I've realized even jams, creamers, yogurts are more Carb oriented than fat. Everything is labelled and sold as "low fat" or "not fat".
I'm getting strange looks from family members since I'm deficit and then they see my finding high fat yogurt and making smoothies and putting cheese on my veggies.
I've tried briefly once explaining them that fat or carbs is basically energy -for weight loss deficit matters. Fat is considered better because it allows us to utilize stored fats as well during a deficit.
I think if the word "Fats" were replaced with "Unicorn dust" people would have an easier time to understand.
Fat makes you obese and fat helps you get slim too but since they are same people think eating high "fatty" foods will not make us lose weight.
Excess energy intake leads to fat accumulation regardless of which particular macronutrient is over-consumed. If you eat more fat and less carbohydrate then yes you do oxidize more fat but you also eat more fat and so there's more to be oxidized.
If you eat more carbohydrate and less fat then fat oxidation is blunted due to higher carbohydrate intake.
Note that this isn't me saying that macronutrient distribution is irrelevant. It is very relevant but not for reasons you're stating.
Oxidation and storage rates of the various macronutrients are dependent on one another to a degree.
Fat, by itself, does not make you obese just like protein and carbohydrate do not make you obese PROVIDED THAT there isn't a surplus of energy coming in the door.0 -
Over-eating more than TDEE is what makes us fat no food is bad unless you are medically advised against it.
This line of thought took so much effort for me to adopt because we are taught about magical foods that help you lose weight and then there are "Doctors on tv performing miracles with specific foods. " aids in this mentality.0 -
Btw made a smoothie in breakfast.
1 tbsp Coco powder
1 tbsp 35% whip cream
3.5 oz 10% Yogurt
12 oz Almond milk
1 scoop whey protein
21 fat 11 carbs 31 protein
348 calories1 -
Have you ever tried cottage cheese in your smoothie? My understanding is that it's a great protein source, and it whips up well...with the added benefit of a sodium already in it.0
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KnitOrMiss wrote: »Have you ever tried cottage cheese in your smoothie? My understanding is that it's a great protein source, and it whips up well...with the added benefit of a sodium already in it.
It is and it is de-frickin-licious.
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Penguin thief
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