Skinny people shouldn't give fat people weight loss advice.
Replies
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I don't know if this adds anything to the conversation but I have always been in more or less a normal weight range. I come from a family where most are overweight if not obese or morbidly obese.
Even though I never suffered the weight challenge my health suffered greatly: dibilitating mystery migraines, allergies, eczemA , gastro intestinal itratabiliy. Life was miserable.
My search for health lead me to radically changing my diet and ALL symptoms disappeared. Every. Last. One. How ever no one in my family will listen to a single word from me. I just want health for them not skinniness!
Weight is not an idication of health or a good quality of life. Just my experience on the matter.
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tinywonder25 wrote: »I don't know if this adds anything to the conversation but I have always been in more or less a normal weight range. I come from a family where most are overweight if not obese or morbidly obese.
Even though I never suffered the weight challenge my health suffered greatly: dibilitating mystery migraines, allergies, eczemA , gastro intestinal itratabiliy. Life was miserable.
My search for health lead me to radically changing my diet and ALL symptoms disappeared. Every. Last. One. How ever no one in my family will listen to a single word from me. I just want health for them not skinniness!
Weight is not an idication of health or a good quality of life. Just my experience on the matter.
Bravo! What specifically do you think cleared up your GI issues?1 -
@RalfLott
Cutting out wheat and legumes specifically help my GI problems but wheat specifically also cause the skin issues x6 -
@Cryren8972 Perhaps that FB page was discussing a weight loss plan that was also lower in fat, then in maintenance they add more fat? Just a possibility as it is a related WOE to LCHF.
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tinywonder25 wrote: »I don't know if this adds anything to the conversation but I have always been in more or less a normal weight range. I come from a family where most are overweight if not obese or morbidly obese.
Even though I never suffered the weight challenge my health suffered greatly: dibilitating mystery migraines, allergies, eczemA , gastro intestinal itratabiliy. Life was miserable.
My search for health lead me to radically changing my diet and ALL symptoms disappeared. Every. Last. One. How ever no one in my family will listen to a single word from me. I just want health for them not skinniness!
Weight is not an idication of health or a good quality of life. Just my experience on the matter.
I agree. I will NEVER be a "normal weight" it just won't happen - fact is I'm big. I'm tall, have a large frame, and will always have extra skin weighing me down. But I know how much healthier I am when I'm at a weight that feels good to me. I also know how much better I feel with this WOE.2 -
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jessiethe3rd wrote: »
Personally, I think meal timing/frequency is the most important thing to control overall for lifelong weight management. That's why all this fast acting high carb food is such a problem. It makes it impossible for people to just eat 2 or 3 meals and no snacks because of the associated blood sugar spike and crash.
I'd like to see this remade with frequency as the big section and macros as the next.
Then calories could sit up top because they wouldn't even be a concern with controlled hunger and eating.7 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »jessiethe3rd wrote: »
Personally, I think meal timing/frequency is the most important thing to control overall for lifelong weight management. That's why all this fast acting high carb food is such a problem. It makes it impossible for people to just eat 2 or 3 meals and no snacks because of the associated blood sugar spike and crash.
I'd like to see this remade with frequency as the big section and macros as the next.
Then calories could sit up top because they wouldn't even be a concern with controlled hunger and eating.
You build a house (your body) by getting the foundation right.
If you try and put on a poor foundation it's called a poop (or other expression) shack. Also known as an out house.
Everyone wants to get to the top but do not get how to climb.
No illusion here. Just the real deal. Fast acting carbs, etc are unimportant if you are putting too much food into your mouth in the first place.3 -
jessiethe3rd wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »jessiethe3rd wrote: »
Personally, I think meal timing/frequency is the most important thing to control overall for lifelong weight management. That's why all this fast acting high carb food is such a problem. It makes it impossible for people to just eat 2 or 3 meals and no snacks because of the associated blood sugar spike and crash.
I'd like to see this remade with frequency as the big section and macros as the next.
Then calories could sit up top because they wouldn't even be a concern with controlled hunger and eating.
You build a house (your body) by getting the foundation right.
If you try and put on a poor foundation it's called a poop (or other expression) shack. Also known as an out house.
That's funny!0 -
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No illusion here. Just the real deal. Fast acting carbs, etc are unimportant if you are putting too much food into your mouth in the first place.[/quote]
Your assumption is that all the calories you eat has the same effect on the body. I will agree that if you put more in you have to get more out. That is thermo dynamics.
If I eat 5000 calories of fiber, just fiber it will not add weight. Why because the body dosent process fiber. So if I eat 1200 calories of donuts, I will gain weight.
I contend that certain foods trigger leptin so you stop eating before you eat to much other foods trigger Ghrelin that makes you eat more.
We are slaves to or hormomes what foods are triggering these hormomes?
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Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »jessiethe3rd wrote: »
Personally, I think meal timing/frequency is the most important thing to control overall for lifelong weight management. That's why all this fast acting high carb food is such a problem. It makes it impossible for people to just eat 2 or 3 meals and no snacks because of the associated blood sugar spike and crash.
I'd like to see this remade with frequency as the big section and macros as the next.
Then calories could sit up top because they wouldn't even be a concern with controlled hunger and eating.
I'm of the opinion that macros are the basis. Meal timing is generally affected by hunger, which, in the dysfunctional state (ie - not because it's actually been several hours since eating and your body is in an objective state of fasting), is triggered by an improper macronutrient balance. Caloric intake is also affected by this balance. If you're eating a bunch of fast acting high carb foods that leave you starving within an hour or two, then you're going to be far more likely to eat more food, more frequently, thus increasing caloric intake. Get the right macronutrient balance, however, and you find yourself able to go 4+ hours between meals and satisfied with fewer calories overall.7 -
I think I'm falling into the @Dragonwolf theory. When I have a big cup of BPC in the morning I'm set for hours on end. I think that "fat bomb" holds me because it's what my body needs. At dinner (which is often at 9 p.m.) I often eat just 4-6 ounces of meat, usually with a little butter but not always and I find by bedtime (10 p.m.) I'm hungry. I don't think all that protein with that small amount of fat was enough for my body. I've often thought of having a cuppa decaf for dinner many times, but haven't gotten myself to the point I can eat "that" differently from my family yet
Maybe BPC and a little meat... 2 -
I'll shed some light on the meal timing based on my experience with T1D... carbs become glucose pretty quickly. In fact, some carbs become glucose in your blood through capillaries in your gums and cheeks before you even swallow. The rest is digested pretty quickly (5 min. to 90 min.). Once that glucose is in your blood, you need to either use it or lose it. So if you are not burning it right away, it will get stored as glycogen and/or as fat. Carbs cause spikes in BG and you will either use it or store it right away.
Protein, on the other hand, first breaks down into individual amino acids. Most of those amino acids are used to repair/build muscle. Protein can also be broken down into BG, but it does not happen quickly. Typically, you are seeing BG rise (not a sharp rise) in 90 min. to 5 hrs. after consuming proteins. Still, there is no spike. As you use that BG, more is being added for hours.
Fat is even slower to break down into glucose, and there is no spike (not even as sharp of a BG rise as protein). It can convert to glucose very slowly and last for hours (10-15 hrs. in my experience).
So timing is most important with carbs because if you don't use it right away, it becomes fat. Sure, you can then convert that fat back to BG later when it is needed, but this is not a very efficient or effective way to do it. I would guess that most are not actually doing this anyway because it means working out during fasting.4 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »jessiethe3rd wrote: »
Personally, I think meal timing/frequency is the most important thing to control overall for lifelong weight management. That's why all this fast acting high carb food is such a problem. It makes it impossible for people to just eat 2 or 3 meals and no snacks because of the associated blood sugar spike and crash.
I'd like to see this remade with frequency as the big section and macros as the next.
Then calories could sit up top because they wouldn't even be a concern with controlled hunger and eating.
I'm of the opinion that macros are the basis. Meal timing is generally affected by hunger, which, in the dysfunctional state (ie - not because it's actually been several hours since eating and your body is in an objective state of fasting), is triggered by an improper macronutrient balance. Caloric intake is also affected by this balance. If you're eating a bunch of fast acting high carb foods that leave you starving within an hour or two, then you're going to be far more likely to eat more food, more frequently, thus increasing caloric intake. Get the right macronutrient balance, however, and you find yourself able to go 4+ hours between meals and satisfied with fewer calories overall.
That's basically what I mean. Finding a way to eat so that we don't require food so often. I think going several hours between meals is very beneficial.2 -
I don't know about any of the science-y stuff of this but boy does it upset me to hear people spout calories in calories out. 1200 calories of twinkies won't keep you full or satisfied for an entire day. Then people come back with "oh well of course carbs turn into glucose and are stored as fat, everyone knows that". NO! Not everyone knows that. That's why our countries are so fat, the general population doesn't know that! ARGH I could lose my mind.
As a whole, our current population is ONLY counting calories as that's what is being pushed by the govt and the food industry. If you walked up to a stranger and asked them how to lose weight, 99% of them are going to only talk about joining jenny craig or weight watchers and counting calories.5 -
I don't know about any of the science-y stuff of this but boy does it upset me to hear people spout calories in calories out. 1200 calories of twinkies won't keep you full or satisfied for an entire day. Then people come back with "oh well of course carbs turn into glucose and are stored as fat, everyone knows that". NO! Not everyone knows that. That's why our countries are so fat, the general population doesn't know that! ARGH I could lose my mind.
As a whole, our current population is ONLY counting calories as that's what is being pushed by the govt and the food industry. If you walked up to a stranger and asked them how to lose weight, 99% of them are going to only talk about joining jenny craig or weight watchers and counting calories.
I did an analysis of the newest weight watchers plan if you compare it to the average persons current diet it would be consider low carb .2 -
So WW, without announcing it to the public, is basically recommending a LC lifestyle- what was the advice in terms of adding fats?2
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Not to hop on the skinny-bashing train, but this... I agree with, @walker1world .
Again, people need to be kinder and more understanding and remember that dietary needs are not a flat-rate, one-size-fits-all, black and white thing. We are all different and require different ways to live and thrive.
I'm glad I found what I think (and hope) is the real way for me to live and eat. I enjoy mostly whole foods, cooked almost all at home, get most of my carbs from veg and dairy, and cheating for me means I have some pepperoni or some sugar-free Jell-O or goofy cheese (I call any pasteurized process cheese product like spreadables or Velveeta or Laughing ow wedges "goofy" cheese---and I KNOW...they are full of crapola like bad fats and dextroses and modified food starches--so far that and fatty salty meats are my only bad habits)...another thread altogether, I suppose.
TL;DR - Point being, I can't tell YOU what to eat, how to live. We all can only know what works for ourselves.3 -
I'm not sure how old you are, but I remember the years and years when it was rare to see a person who was "fat", we had one in an entire school.
People felt full and stopped eating and didn't want to be called greedy- it was a mindset.
Somehow things changed
I am only 43, but I remember this - all through K-12. There was maybe a small handful out of hundreds of students who were a bit on the chunky side, but not probably obese.
I know that as far as how things changed? Well, I'm sure we can all agree that the math would be:
The whole bad scientists in the late '50s with stupid agendas
+ U.S. grain board getting into bed with the feds
+ factory grain farm subsidies
+ "fat is bad for you" and entire U.S. being brainwashed into the low-fat/fat-free hype
+ Increase in portion sizes at restaurants & stores because high carb food = constant hunger
+ Doritos effect aka the over-abundance of "flavor"
= The problem we have now
(this is all covered in both Fat Head and The Dorito Effect, as probably most know).1 -
Not to hop on the skinny-bashing train, but this... I agree with, @walker1world .
Again, people need to be kinder and more understanding and remember that dietary needs are not a flat-rate, one-size-fits-all, black and white thing. We are all different and require different ways to live and thrive.
I'm glad I found what I think (and hope) is the real way for me to live and eat. I enjoy mostly whole foods, cooked almost all at home, get most of my carbs from veg and dairy, and cheating for me means I have some pepperoni or some sugar-free Jell-O or goofy cheese (I call any pasteurized process cheese product like spreadables or Velveeta or Laughing ow wedges "goofy" cheese---and I KNOW...they are full of crapola like bad fats and dextroses and modified food starches--so far that and fatty salty meats are my only bad habits)...another thread altogether, I suppose.
TL;DR - Point being, I can't tell YOU what to eat, how to live. We all can only know what works for ourselves.
Welcome to the train. LOL. I don't mean it in a mean way, just as a caution to people that are obese who try to do what skinny people do and wonder why it dosent work.1 -
walker1world wrote: »Not to hop on the skinny-bashing train, but this... I agree with, @walker1world .
Again, people need to be kinder and more understanding and remember that dietary needs are not a flat-rate, one-size-fits-all, black and white thing. We are all different and require different ways to live and thrive.
I'm glad I found what I think (and hope) is the real way for me to live and eat. I enjoy mostly whole foods, cooked almost all at home, get most of my carbs from veg and dairy, and cheating for me means I have some pepperoni or some sugar-free Jell-O or goofy cheese (I call any pasteurized process cheese product like spreadables or Velveeta or Laughing ow wedges "goofy" cheese---and I KNOW...they are full of crapola like bad fats and dextroses and modified food starches--so far that and fatty salty meats are my only bad habits)...another thread altogether, I suppose.
TL;DR - Point being, I can't tell YOU what to eat, how to live. We all can only know what works for ourselves.
Welcome to the train. LOL. I don't mean it in a mean way, just as a caution to people that are obese who try to do what skinny people do and wonder why it dosent work.
But fortunately, if my own experience is any indicator, once said obese person leans out, they will start to understand where the skinnier person was coming from. Seriously, everything from cutting weight, to gaining weight, to recutting has gotten faster and easier since I got below 170, from my original 265.3 -
I recently heard that a small percentage, about 10 or 20, of people who attempt CICO diets lose weight and keep it off for over a year. Now I don't know the percentage for LCHF but that right there tells you the theory only works on a small percent. The rest of us have to find something that really works.0
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cedarsidefarm wrote: »I recently heard that a small percentage, about 10 or 20, of people who attempt CICO diets lose weight and keep it off for over a year. Now I don't know the percentage for LCHF but that right there tells you the theory only works on a small percent. The rest of us have to find something that really works.
Really? Only a year? Maybe it's because my loss was a bit "drastic" by most standards, but I'm pretty sure that I would have to go back to eating 3500+ on a daily basis to get back up to my origibal starting point within a year. 2000 was painful today.1 -
cedarsidefarm wrote: »I recently heard that a small percentage, about 10 or 20, of people who attempt CICO diets lose weight and keep it off for over a year. Now I don't know the percentage for LCHF but that right there tells you the theory only works on a small percent. The rest of us have to find something that really works.
CI/CO - to the extent you can even come close to accurately estimating either - doesn't seem to account for set points, stalls, plateaus, etc. It can't all be hydration-related, can it?1 -
tinywonder25 wrote: »@RalfLott
Cutting out wheat and legumes specifically help my GI problems but wheat specifically also cause the skin issues x
It is great when you find a way to eat that solves issues with out medication.1 -
cedarsidefarm wrote: »I recently heard that a small percentage, about 10 or 20, of people who attempt CICO diets lose weight and keep it off for over a year. Now I don't know the percentage for LCHF but that right there tells you the theory only works on a small percent. The rest of us have to find something that really works.
I have searched for a credible posting for these numbers and I can't find it, do you have a source?0 -
I'm not sure how old you are, but I remember the years and years when it was rare to see a person who was "fat", we had one in an entire school.
People felt full and stopped eating and didn't want to be called greedy- it was a mindset.
Somehow things changed
I am only 43, but I remember this - all through K-12. There was maybe a small handful out of hundreds of students who were a bit on the chunky side, but not probably obese.
I know that as far as how things changed? Well, I'm sure we can all agree that the math would be:
The whole bad scientists in the late '50s with stupid agendas
+ U.S. grain board getting into bed with the feds
+ factory grain farm subsidies
+ "fat is bad for you" and entire U.S. being brainwashed into the low-fat/fat-free hype
+ Increase in portion sizes at restaurants & stores because high carb food = constant hunger
+ Doritos effect aka the over-abundance of "flavor"
= The problem we have now
(this is all covered in both Fat Head and The Dorito Effect, as probably most know).
I blame it on the baby boomers, if you remember they were the counter culture generation. They abandoned everything traditional including the way there Grandparents ate.
I have nobody in my family thay knows how my great grandparents cooked with lard and Animal fat. Both my great grand parents lived into thier late 80s early 90s. They lived most of thier lives living of food they grew and raised. Of course thier kids wanted nothing to do with that life they moved to the city. And so the story goes.5 -
Well those earlier years, i'm pretty sure there wasn't so much genetic engineering of food, hormones and fattening agents given to crops/animals.........also now packaged and processed foods are designed to always create a "mouth party"....those are huge changes in what ppl eat.
This is just a few, there are many others. Also if an overweight person should happen to ask someone who has never been overweight about how they accomplished this, i think the thinner person should be honored and should try to respond with sincerity.1
This discussion has been closed.