Skinny people shouldn't give fat people weight loss advice.
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nicoleggates wrote: »I've only been doing low carb for a couple of weeks, but for the first time I don't have cravings and find it easy to keep within my calorie goal.
I'm not doing LCHF though, just low carb without worrying about fat. So far this is going well, and I can try LCHF at some point if things stop working. I have a few things I can adjust if need be within the realm of low carb, but I definitely think keeping away from grains and sugars is the way for me. It just isn't as simple as CICO for me. If the CI are accompanied by foods that make me hungry, I will keep on CI-ing.
Wow I love your energy, you really sound as though you have found something that works for you. Thanks for sharing. What books have you read? In my experience reading a few books about how keto or low carb works helped me understand how the body worked so I could make adjustments when I hit a plateau.
I have seen a few people hit that wall and not have the full understanding of the biochemical path ways that stall ketosis and give up on the low carb thing. I have seen a few people try to do low carb low fat and when they hit gluconeogenesis they don't understand what to do next.
Reading books like the art of low carb living and Genocide really helped me learn how to manipulate my ketosis.
Good luck with your journey.1 -
@midwesterner85
Yea, i'd kinda go with the suggestions from @KnitOrMiss:
1. increase the healthy fats , eat one avocado everyday and put Kerry Gold butter on your vegetables and on top of the less fat cuts of meat, don't forget olive oil..add it to foods as well.
2. Be sure you are getting enough salt,try the pink Himalayan salt, very pure.
btw--i have nut allergies and coconut allergies so no MCT or almonds,cashews etc..and i still get plenty of of the HF part of our WOE.
If you want to open your diary for a couple of hours, we could maybe take a look.
You are good, I couldn't live with out cocnut and almonds lol.0 -
walker1world wrote: ».
No illusion here. Just the real deal. Fast acting carbs, etc are unimportant if you are putting too much food into your mouth in the first place.
Your assumption is that all the calories you eat has the same effect on the body. I will agree that if you put more in you have to get more out. That is thermo dynamics.
If I eat 5000 calories of fiber, just fiber it will not add weight. Why because the body dosent process fiber. So if I eat 1200 calories of donuts, I will gain weight.
I contend that certain foods trigger leptin so you stop eating before you eat to much other foods trigger Ghrelin that makes you eat more.
We are slaves to or hormomes what foods are triggering these hormomes?
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This is the straight up truth for me.
Food types and timing matter
I can eat 150 grams of carbs during an endurance exercise and stay deep in my keto state.
Seeing food apart from activity is an incomplete look at things
On this ride I took in almost 300 grams of carbs and still lost weight
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Working2BLean wrote: »walker1world wrote: ».
No illusion here. Just the real deal. Fast acting carbs, etc are unimportant if you are putting too much food into your mouth in the first place.
Your assumption is that all the calories you eat has the same effect on the body. I will agree that if you put more in you have to get more out. That is thermo dynamics.
If I eat 5000 calories of fiber, just fiber it will not add weight. Why because the body dosent process fiber. So if I eat 1200 calories of donuts, I will gain weight.
I contend that certain foods trigger leptin so you stop eating before you eat to much other foods trigger Ghrelin that makes you eat more.
We are slaves to or hormomes what foods are triggering these hormomes?
This is the straight up truth for me.
Food types and timing matter
I can eat 150 grams of carbs during an endurance exercise and stay deep in my keto state.
Seeing food apart from activity is an incomplete look at things
On this ride I took in almost 300 grams of carbs and still lost weight
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That is impressive. Have you watched cereal killers 2? There is apart about the couple that rowed from San Francisco to Hawaii eat only fat. DR. Voleck would say you will be able to accomplish a similar feet only using fat for fuel.
Either way it is very impressive so why are you on this site?0 -
It is wonderful Walker that you are contributing what is working for you, I understand that you are learning as you go and sharing with us here on this site and I thank you for your communication, support and sharing!
@Working2BLean
Please keep in mind that not everyone here is overweight, I have never been overweight or fat, there is even a section of this website for ppl who are needing to gain. We all are in the struggle.
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A note about gastric bypass surgery: Bypass surgery for TEENAGERS is an increasingly popular elective procedure. IMO, any doctor performing this procedure on a teenager should have his/her license reviewed, if not suspended. The number of teenagers who genuinely need this has to be miniscule. The rest need education and intervention (and better parents, but that's another discussion.)
How greedy can the medical profession get before someone calls a halt?3 -
mandycat223 wrote: »A note about gastric bypass surgery: Bypass surgery for TEENAGERS is an increasingly popular elective procedure. IMO, any doctor performing this procedure on a teenager should have his/her license reviewed, if not suspended. The number of teenagers who genuinely need this has to be miniscule. The rest need education and intervention (and better parents, but that's another discussion.)
How greedy can the medical profession get before someone calls a halt?
As much as I hate the thought of a teenager going under the knife, I think that is an individual dessiscion between the teenager the parents and the doctors.
I personal think they should exhaust every other means before they do this. I think the big brother top down blanket solution approach is what got us here in the first place . You know the government guide lines and all that stuff? So making a blanket call on all of any situation is probably not the way to go.
I don't think greed is the motive for people treating the symptoms of obesity. I don't even think greed is the motive of food companies. Just like it is not laziness is what made us fat. It comes down to people right to chose.3 -
Excellent @mandycat223 that you have focused on this issue, i've never before thought about teens & gastric bypass.
Actually have probably seen teens in Malls or at Amusement parks who weight 400 pounds or more.
Read (sorry no source) that it is very difficult for people to lose 100 to 200 pounds, just about impossible. Yes, i know here on MFP, we are constantly meeting/seeing ppl who do drop those huge numbers, really the size of another person--so we know it can be done. However IRL, that's rare---maintenance and compliance all but impossible.
The very overweight teen is teased to the point that many of them have to be removed from the classroom and then they enter a home school sitaution to obtain a HS diploma.
In addition often the teen can't control what foods are available within the home.
So, not really sure----the overweight/grossly obese teen is in his own category and probably faces a myriad of issues--just not sure if authorities should "deny" that teen/him or her the tool that Gastric Bypass or the Sleeve or Roux N y surgery can be.
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walker1world wrote: »I contend that certain foods trigger leptin so you stop eating before you eat to much other foods trigger Ghrelin that makes you eat more.
No, all other things being equal, ghrelin tends to make you hungry. You make you eat more.walker1world wrote: »We are slaves to or hormomes what foods are triggering these hormomes?
There is much grey in the areas of nutrition, hormones, and behavior, including hormonal interactions. Asking whether a single hormone is on or off is barely scratching the surface.3 -
mandycat223 wrote: »A note about gastric bypass surgery: Bypass surgery for TEENAGERS is an increasingly popular elective procedure. IMO, any doctor performing this procedure on a teenager should have his/her license reviewed, if not suspended. The number of teenagers who genuinely need this has to be miniscule. The rest need education and intervention (and better parents, but that's another discussion.)
How greedy can the medical profession get before someone calls a halt?
Some doctors will be greedy, others just misguided. In any case it is shocking that a surgery has become an increasingly popular tool to fix bad eating. For everyone but obviously more so the younger the patient. If I had been offered a surgery in my teens I would've gratefully accepted and I was just on the chubby side of normal.
As an adult hopefully we become more skeptical of miracle solutions (that are nothing of the sort). A male friend had gastric surgery about the same time I started LCHF. We had similar weight (±300lbs) and despite being female I have lost slightly more (±100lbs) than he has (±80lbs) and have not suffered what he has. And now we're both struggling because we both still need to lose at least another 60lbs. So, what was the benefit of the surgery? None that I can see. I'm very happy to have said no when my doctor wanted me to have it, I found LCHF then keto and didn't cut anything.
For teenagers, as for all of us, what we need is more information. I still get incensed that to mutilate the digestive system would be suggested before "cut the carbage and eat more fat, come back in two months"!
::flowerforyou::5 -
I have always had a weight problem. My mother had my thyroid tested when I was in 2nd grade because I was very active and ate exactly what my very slim brothers ate. It should be noted that my older brother and I were both adopted and so, as siblings, we didn't share genes. The thyroid test came back normal so she began watching every morsel I ate, cooked me low calorie everything, including sending sugar free candy to camp so that my canteen privileges weren't going to make me fat. I wasn't considered obese at 150 lbs at age 16, and I was pretty well muscled. Still, the lowest weight I ever achieved was 130 lbs for about a month, in my 20s, through starvation and exercise.
I think that if the bariatric surgery was an option back in the late 60s and early 70s, my mom would have jumped on it with both feet. She HATED that i was overweight and made me hate myself too.0 -
I'm here because I have lost over 150 pounds.
I like a lower carb lifestyle and this is a good group. It is a place where like minded people can encourage each other to reach their goals.
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walker1world wrote: »...my great grandparents cooked with lard and Animal fat. Both my great grand parents lived into thier late 80s early 90s. They lived most of thier lives living of food they grew and raised. Of course thier kids wanted nothing to do with that life they moved to the city. And so the story goes.
Exactly...but really, some bad scientists had an agenda, plus the government told people to stay hush about low carb ways being healthier, because they were sitting on a pot of gold(en) wheat! Cue the Fat Free brigade and the Heart-healthy Grains parade!
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Yes, but it's fascinating, you have to admit.2 -
Yes, but it's fascinating, you have to admit.
Uh.... yep. Almost as addictive as the eponymous Tang-colored uberjunkfood itself.2 -
I have always had a weight problem. My mother had my thyroid tested when I was in 2nd grade because I was very active and ate exactly what my very slim brothers ate. It should be noted that my older brother and I were both adopted and so, as siblings, we didn't share genes. The thyroid test came back normal so she began watching every morsel I ate, cooked me low calorie everything, including sending sugar free candy to camp so that my canteen privileges weren't going to make me fat. I wasn't considered obese at 150 lbs at age 16, and I was pretty well muscled. Still, the lowest weight I ever achieved was 130 lbs for about a month, in my 20s, through starvation and exercise.
I think that if the bariatric surgery was an option back in the late 60s and early 70s, my mom would have jumped on it with both feet. She HATED that i was overweight and made me hate myself too.
Reading this really struck a cord with me. As a parent I worry about what messages I send my children. I try to do the best I can as a parent. I wish I had a crystal ball to see how everything turns out in the long run.
I hope that you come to grips with your childhood. It is the foundation of your life but we can build on it and make our lives better.4 -
@kmn118
It is hard to understand but there was a mentality of no PC, people were not accepting of fat, homosexuals, different races, different religions, so your Mom was typical of her generation. Things were not like they are now n 2016.
It sounds like you are on the right track, good luck to you as you look forward.1 -
@LINIA and @walker1world Thank you for your good thoughts and wishes. I know she was doing the best she knew how, as we all try to do as parents. And, it's my life and my responsibility now, so I choose to embrace this WOE to better health! 6
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I have always had a weight problem. My mother had my thyroid tested when I was in 2nd grade because I was very active and ate exactly what my very slim brothers ate. It should be noted that my older brother and I were both adopted and so, as siblings, we didn't share genes. The thyroid test came back normal so she began watching every morsel I ate, cooked me low calorie everything, including sending sugar free candy to camp so that my canteen privileges weren't going to make me fat. I wasn't considered obese at 150 lbs at age 16, and I was pretty well muscled. Still, the lowest weight I ever achieved was 130 lbs for about a month, in my 20s, through starvation and exercise.
I think that if the bariatric surgery was an option back in the late 60s and early 70s, my mom would have jumped on it with both feet. She HATED that i was overweight and made me hate myself too.
@kmn118 I wish my mother and I had both been more motivated back then. I'll be 40 in a few days, and my mom is 63, and neither of us are in great health, though I'm fighting back more than she is able to do at this point... If there were any freaking clue at all the issues that run in our family (we have genetic PCOS, IR, hypothyroidism, and all that crap that comes with it, back as far as we can track, which is 3 or so generations), we might have been equipped with tools to fight back.
My siblings and I all shared the same mother and father. It is me (C), my sis H, my bro R, and my youngest bro D. So my mom, C, and R, we all shared very similar genetics. R was almost 6 years younger, yet we could have passed for twins once he was about 13 or so. H & D looked more like my aunt, A. It was often said that my mom, R, and I got the Polish/Greek genetics - and that A, H, & D got the more German-ish side of the genetics. Whatever it is, my siblings had a far easier time food/weight wise than R & I did... It was crazy.
I learned a massive dislike for myself growing up, as well (more from classmates and my father - and not from my mother - I actually remember my dad refusing to buy a larger size clothing for me as a teen because it was too fat so my gifts didn't fit me - he used to do this with my brothers and shoes and crap, too - I'm glad he mellowed as a grandpa so I don't have to kick his butt over giving my kiddo and nieces issues) , and didn't actually come to terms with liking myself until I was at my heaviest, and I actually have my ex to thank for it, because he basically told me I was too fat, he wasn't attracted to me anymore, and he wanted a divorce, yada yada. It was then when I finally had to decide if I was worth fighting for...and obviously I did, though it's still a battle some days.
I'm so sorry that your mom's concern for your overall health (by judging your appearance) and her misguided attempts to help you made you hate yourself... I can only hope that you're healing well from this, as you definitely seem stronger in your posts. (HUGS) I just wanted to share with you that you are not alone...and that if you need to vent, complain, or find better coping tools, we're all here... I'm always surprised at the things that someone else has done or "just figured out" that I would have never thought of in a million years. Researched and implemented myself and become utterly LIFECHANGING....4 -
Thank you, @KnitOrMiss for your support and for sharing your history with us (me). At the time, I didn't hate my mom for her efforts to "help" me, I just hated myself for failing. As I grew older, I did realize it was my life and battle to fight and so, here I am (again) lol.
Your posts and information on so many topics, especially hypothyroid issues, have been very helpful to me. I will probably need to pick your brain over these things in a few months when I go back to doctor to do "battle" over the thyroid tests I want done. Thanks again.4 -
Thank you, @KnitOrMiss for your support and for sharing your history with us (me). At the time, I didn't hate my mom for her efforts to "help" me, I just hated myself for failing. As I grew older, I did realize it was my life and battle to fight and so, here I am (again) lol.
Your posts and information on so many topics, especially hypothyroid issues, have been very helpful to me. I will probably need to pick your brain over these things in a few months when I go back to doctor to do "battle" over the thyroid tests I want done. Thanks again.
@kmn118 - I received a lot of information from @Dragonwolf, @Alliwan, @Sunny_Bunny_, and so many others. Just learning things and jumping off points for my own research. It's something I can do to continue to give back to others as those who were here before me (and still are) so generously shared with me.
I, too, felt the overwhelming sense of failure, no matter what I did - as a child, a teen, a young adult, a woman, and a woman nearly perimenopause, etc. I KNEW there had to be something else at play. I'm happy to say that while I may not have gotten to the bottom of the pile, I'm sure better off than I was a few years back...
Feel free to hit me up whenever you're ready to "go to war..." LOL Sad that we have to view it that way, but luckily, you have a wealth of information and great researchers "at the ready" here in this fabulous group!3 -
A bit of a derail -
Working2BLean, not criticizing your use of carbs on your ride, but I'm wondering if you've done any reading on fat-adapted athletes? I ride road and mountain and mountaineer (much more slowly than before given the extra 45 I'm currently carrying) and am having great success doing 6+ hour rides and climbs on less than 350 calories and 8 net carbs with no loss of energy or decline in mood or mental acuity.
There's some new information out there proving that the body and brain can use ketones in place of carbs even in high intensity exercise in fat-adapted athletes.1 -
@Majcolorado
For my fitness , I'm using only our Fat Adapted ketones for energy, am not carb loading or concerned about raising carb grams for exercise.
Just seem able to easily complete normal daily activities and fitness three times a week (occasionally a 5k)1 -
I got sleeved (VSG) a couple of years ago. I lost 75 pounds and no more. I don't know if keto will work, but I feel better on it. It's only been a month and I've had to get over the low carb, high protein, low-calorie mantra.
Here's the thing, when I was young I used to drop weight by sticking to meat and veggies. I'd broil a chicken leg and eat it with a salad for dinner. Or broil a steak. Breakfast was a bagel with cream cheese. Bagels were smaller in those days and I really loaded the cream cheese. Or it was oatmeal with some milk and raisins. Lunch was probably French onion soup, with a TON of cheese. Or a tuna fish sandwich with an apple.
not super low-carb, but also not high calorie, and filled with real food. I liked ice cream for dessert. I ate one scoop.
I called it my 'non-diet diet' and I lost weight and got lean on it. I exercised a lot, stuff I liked - roller skating, racquetball. Aerobics, because it was dancing, jazzercise, or step with fun music. Not because I 'had' to exercise, because I liked the activities.
I wasn't crippled in those days. No back issues.
Then we were being told - don't eat fat. And Snackwells were invented. And we were inhaling those things. We were told to 'carb-load', so we piled in the pasta. And I was hungry all the time. Plus, I'd had a surgery and my activity level dropped. welcome to the carbohydrate weight gain rollercoaster.
I'd have done better if I'd ignored all the hype, continued eating as I had been. My metabolism went to zero, with weird eating and restricted movement. I'm sure my gut flora was a mess no the day I got my surgery. But it was frustrating after the first 75 came off to find that 800 calories a day wasn't making me lose weight. In fact, I was eating like 1100 calories on a 'bad day' and gaining weight. That doesn't even seem possible.
So, even if I don't lose anything on keto, at least I can eat waaaayyyy more without gaining.
And I feel better. My joints don't hurt and my back is behaving pretty well.1 -
@authorwriter While I personally have a lot of pounds I'd still love to lose, I maintain that if I never lose another pound, but continue making health gains - I'll be a happy camper. Sounds like we're in the same boat. By focusing on the health side of things and making strides there, I know that my weight stuff will eventually catch up! It can't help but to do so. LOL At least that's what I tell myself when I'm reminding myself why I don't want to obsess over the scale, etc.
Sounds like some of your older ways will help you adjust to eating this way easier, while others will require some low-carb substitutions. Best of luck to you. 0 -
Thank you @KnitOrMiss . I think I'm pretty well adjusted. I took sweeteners out of the mix after finding a thread on it here. I wasn't using much, but I guess that little was enough. Liquid sucrolose arrived today and I decide to add it to something BY THE DROP. just a little if I really need it. I appreciate my sleeve, I really do. It provides a physical restriction to how much I can actually ingest. The fat seems to be keeping me sated, although my calorie count is twice what my bariatric nutritionists were recommending. So I'm not struggling with the water/bloating weight gain anymore. If I ever do get to goal weight, I want a bowl of oatmeal. But that's a hundred pounds away or more.3
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authorwriter wrote: »Thank you @KnitOrMiss . I think I'm pretty well adjusted. I took sweeteners out of the mix after finding a thread on it here. I wasn't using much, but I guess that little was enough. Liquid sucrolose arrived today and I decide to add it to something BY THE DROP. just a little if I really need it. I appreciate my sleeve, I really do. It provides a physical restriction to how much I can actually ingest. The fat seems to be keeping me sated, although my calorie count is twice what my bariatric nutritionists were recommending. So I'm not struggling with the water/bloating weight gain anymore. If I ever do get to goal weight, I want a bowl of oatmeal. But that's a hundred pounds away or more.
When I first started my Ketogenic life, I needed artificial sweetners to help with the cravings of sweets but soon I was not interested in them any more I do have some stevia I use from time to time but outside of that I have lost desire for sweets.
It was gradual I progressed from sugar to sweet n low then to stevia. Now I am done with it.
I don't know if this applies to what your talking about but your note made me realize I don't even use stevia any more.
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authorwriter wrote: »If I ever do get to goal weight, I want a bowl of oatmeal. But that's a hundred pounds away or more.
Hopefully, once you've reached your goal, a bowl of oatmeal will be about as appetizing as a glass of Drano (or maybe warm cod liver oil with glass shards in it).3 -
walker1world wrote: »authorwriter wrote: »Thank you @KnitOrMiss . I think I'm pretty well adjusted. I took sweeteners out of the mix after finding a thread on it here. I wasn't using much, but I guess that little was enough. Liquid sucrolose arrived today and I decide to add it to something BY THE DROP. just a little if I really need it. I appreciate my sleeve, I really do. It provides a physical restriction to how much I can actually ingest. The fat seems to be keeping me sated, although my calorie count is twice what my bariatric nutritionists were recommending. So I'm not struggling with the water/bloating weight gain anymore. If I ever do get to goal weight, I want a bowl of oatmeal. But that's a hundred pounds away or more.
When I first started my Ketogenic life, I needed artificial sweetners to help with the cravings of sweets but soon I was not interested in them any more I do have some stevia I use from time to time but outside of that I have lost desire for sweets.
It was gradual I progressed from sugar to sweet n low then to stevia. Now I am done with it.
I don't know if this applies to what your talking about but your note made me realize I don't even use stevia any more.
That was me too. I kept cutting back. I stopped making any low carb desserts first because I was having a problem with wanting them at least a couple times a week. I was not comfortable with that "need" feeling since I was coming from a sugar addicted state.
Then I kept cutting back on sweetening my coffee using sugar free syrups until I just felt like I couldn't possibly enjoy my coffee with any less and again I realized that sounded like my tendency for addiction talking. So at that point, I had to quit sweetening it entirely and make myself get used to it.
Now, I love my unsweetened coffee and even like it with a little sea salt.
It's crazy how much our taste preferences are just mental2
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