Keto - major TMI help
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Here is the incomplete list of things that I know of that can cause or exacerbate bowel issues:
1. Sugar alcohols and other artificial sweeteners.
2. Coffee
3. Too much magnesium supplementation
4. Too much fiber (particularly insoluble fiber)
5. Interaction of ketosis and some medications (namely, Metformin/Glucophage)
6. Too much protein paired with not enough fat (this largely only applies to people trying to do low carb, low fat, high protein; doing at least moderate fat is usually sufficient to avoid such issues, but you may need to toy around with ratios a little to find your particular balance)
7. Gut microbe die-off (drastic changes in diet cause changes in our microbiome, which can include the mass die-off of certain species of microbes, which can, in turn, cause a number of symptoms)
8. Too much fat, too soon (this is especially the case for people without a gallbladder or who have undergone weight loss surgery). This can be fat in general, and/or coconut oil, specifically, and especially when paired with coffee (ie - if you suddenly started drinking Bulletproof Coffee at full fat strength, that's probably your culprit).4 -
drjuliewilson.com/if-im-healthier-why-are-my-symptoms-worse/
Keep in mind that 'retracement' of symptoms can be a reality. I think this is one reason so many stop LCHF before any real healing is completed and wind up calling LCHF dangerous and no good. I had times when I was much worse on LCHF and crazy things happening but I just kept working the plan. After about 90 days the weird stuff stopped and it was all good after that.
Dragonwolf's #7 and #8 nearly made me want to give up LCHF in week two.
Keep in mind I was 63 at the time and was at my low point of 40 years health issues standing on banana peelings with both feet. Someone 35 with no major health issues may have little issue going LCFH.0 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »Here is the incomplete list of things that I know of that can cause or exacerbate bowel issues:
1. Sugar alcohols and other artificial sweeteners.
2. Coffee
3. Too much magnesium supplementation
4. Too much fiber (particularly insoluble fiber)
5. Interaction of ketosis and some medications (namely, Metformin/Glucophage)
6. Too much protein paired with not enough fat (this largely only applies to people trying to do low carb, low fat, high protein; doing at least moderate fat is usually sufficient to avoid such issues, but you may need to toy around with ratios a little to find your particular balance)
7. Gut microbe die-off (drastic changes in diet cause changes in our microbiome, which can include the mass die-off of certain species of microbes, which can, in turn, cause a number of symptoms)
8. Too much fat, too soon (this is especially the case for people without a gallbladder or who have undergone weight loss surgery). This can be fat in general, and/or coconut oil, specifically, and especially when paired with coffee (ie - if you suddenly started drinking Bulletproof Coffee at full fat strength, that's probably your culprit).
I would add:
9. Low stomach acid. Having low stomach acid doesn't keep the food in the digestive system long, as it gets erroneous symptoms that the "wash cycle" so to speak, is done, because the acids are all gone, etc., regardless of how much or how little nutrition has been digested. Since adding ACV and/or digestive enzymes, the majority of my loose stool issues are almost completely resolved.
10. Add probiotics AND diatomaceous earth. This is the other set of things I've added that have very much settled my stomach/digestive/bowel dramas. I think it is far more the second than the first, but hugely noticeable difference.4 -
11. Eating too much, too quickly (Achtung, fasters!)
12. Other LCHF stalwarts - Apple cider vinegar, esp. raw, organic ACV; Raw nuts & seeds; Avocados; Omega-3 supplements.3 -
I echo @supergal3 advice - watch those sugar alcohols, specifically malitol. It makes me have to GO and gives me some bad cramping sometimes. Some people digest it fine, and I am ok up to a point, but I can definitly feel it when I have too much. One time I ate 7 sugar free toffee candies thinking, yay sugar free! No.. just no. Never again!
If none of those are an issue we'd have to check out your diary to find the culprit. Have you tried adding more dairy?0 -
I might add sorbitol to the malitol warning. Oh, and xylitol, too. All that stuff should come with incendiary warnings!
Erythritol, on the other hand, doesn't appear to generate conspicuous internal combustion.3 -
Oy. Now I'm overwhelmed with wtf it could be. I'm going to try seeing if cutting back on my caffeine to just the two cups in the morning will help, to start. Then up my potassium intake (it's really low). I already eat a lot of veg, so it's not that...it could be the diving head-first into a lot of fat intake, perhaps even the fact I'm on Metformin (which I will not quit just yet, I've already cut out insulin). I don't think I can tolerate loosey goosey bathroom time for much longer.0
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@bjwoodzy - I would suggest that you be careful with potassium. You are likely getting more than you know. USDA does not require potassium to be included on the nutritional labels, so the majority of companies simply leave it off, despite there being normal amounts in the food. USDA nutritional site and fatsecret.com often have better data there. Just as too little potassium can be dangerous, so can too much.
Magnesium is a far more common deficiency (90%+ of the first world population is deficient due to soil depletion and such).
Also, with the metformin, it always triggered that reaction in me, and explosively most of the time. I had to avoid dairy 4 hours either side of my medication dosage - have no sugars around the dosages at all - and no coconut oil around it (particularly with vinegar/pickles/high sodium foods - as far as I've been able to tell, this last one is exclusive to just ME). But, I've also found a good bit of relief in that area by using probiotics and diatomaceous earth (thanks, @dietbepsi for the recommendation!).
With no gallbladder, I far more tend to this reaction than most folks. Also, once I added in apple cider vinegar and/or digestive enzymes with every meal, the dumping reaction almost immediately ceased.1 -
Oy. Now I'm overwhelmed with wtf it could be. I'm going to try seeing if cutting back on my caffeine to just the two cups in the morning will help, to start. Then up my potassium intake (it's really low). I already eat a lot of veg, so it's not that...it could be the diving head-first into a lot of fat intake, perhaps even the fact I'm on Metformin (which I will not quit just yet, I've already cut out insulin). I don't think I can tolerate loosey goosey bathroom time for much longer.
I was right there with you. Saturday I was feeling defeated and declared that I can eat what I want. Saturday night and all day Sunday. Ugh.
Good news is, I was back on the wagon Monday, which was easier this time. I have cut back on the caffeine/diet dew but not eliminated, and I have eaten more dairy this week thus far. Things are slowly improving a bit. I'll continue to monitor and see how it goes. Sorry this doesn't help much for you @bjwoodzy I think you already said you eat quite a bit of cheese1 -
FYI, coffee actually has a ton of potassium, so between that and the fact that it's rarely actually on labels, like Knit said, it's very unlikely that you're actually deficient.
Since you are on Metformin, odds are very good that's your primary culprit. You'll want to play around with the timing of taking it and your meals, as well as the composition of the meals closest to taking the Metformin.1 -
Oy. Now I'm overwhelmed with wtf it could be. I'm going to try seeing if cutting back on my caffeine to just the two cups in the morning will help, to start. Then up my potassium intake (it's really low). I already eat a lot of veg, so it's not that...it could be the diving head-first into a lot of fat intake, perhaps even the fact I'm on Metformin (which I will not quit just yet, I've already cut out insulin). I don't think I can tolerate loosey goosey bathroom time for much longer.
Tuches ofin tish...... +Caffeine +Metformin +Coconut Oil -Imodium = fakakta drek!Dragonwolf wrote: »Since you are on Metformin, odds are very good that's your primary culprit. You'll want to play around with the timing of taking it and your meals, as well as the composition of the meals closest to taking the Metformin.
Yep.
2 things that worked for me for metformin syndrome:
1. Take an imodium before, and the Metformin toward the very end, of a meal;
2. Switch from generic Metformin to name-brand Glucophage XR.
A double benefit here - Glucophage is not only easier on your guts than some of the generics, but it is also more potent and therefore can be taken in lower quantities.
This pearl is from Dr. Bernstein, who frequently emphasizes the superiority of Glucophage over some of the generics in his monthly teleseminars, and he says in his book:Sold generically and under the brand name Glucophage,
this ISA is one of the most effective that we have. Rather than increasing
insulin production and "burning out" pancreatic beta cells, it increases
the body's sensitivity to its own or injected insulin.
In my experience, not all generic metformins match the efficacy of the original or
extended-release Glucophage.
[Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes Solution, Glossary, p 488]
Here's his most recent teleseminar (June 2016). His discussion of Metformin starts around 2:00:
https://youtu.be/-FxhAvSyRPg
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Thanks for all the replies that I missed until now - my brain is too tired right now to do quoting and proper responding (only because it's after 11 and I've done a lot today) so I'll just say I've read through all the suggestions and will consider everything. Thanks again1
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@jasperdog52554 - I hope you're still doing better!
I know I said I eat a lot of cheese, but I guess I think of "a lot of cheese" as maybe 2-3 oz per day, max. And honestly, my family history tends to fall on the side of more icky-tummy reaction to dairy, so I was nervous to try adding more dairy (my mom got more sensitive to it as she got older, but it was milk products, not cheese).
Turns out, amping up my cheese consumption the past few days or so has helped a lot in decreasing the Souper Happy Fun Bathroom Time - I've only been loosey goosey about half the time, since - My history with sensitivity to dairy has typically revolved around issues with ice cream/ice milk, and milk...not cheese. So I'm glad to report this. However, I've still got some fiber capsules on order with Amazon coming soon, just to be on the safe side (they're the kind that add bulk as well).0 -
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walker1world wrote: »I was thinking it was the other way around, you should take us to dinner for reading so much about your poo.
( ._.)
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My bathroom issues are still um, faster than they ever used to be. Before I went LCHF I mean. I don't know if my experiences are relevant though because I am a celiac and have always had issues of things being too slow.
My input for the list:
13. (Are we at 13?) Sodium issues. When my sodium is low or too high, it seems to mess with me.
14. Fibre. Fibre slows things waaaay down for me. If I can skip fibre, BMs are much looser. Fibre is like a super hero that helps some but I see him as a problem. It's my batman.
15. Lack of dairy. Cheese is my BM parking brake. If I skip dairy for a few days, I get bathroom speeding tickets.3 -
walker1world wrote: »
Was that really necessary? The title is TMI. If you don't want to read about TMI topics, save yourself a click and skip it next time.
No need to say things that might make the OP feel bad. We're here to support and help.
I should be taken to dinner for having to put on my mod hat today.
So remember dem Community guidelines... blah... blah.... no insulting posts.
We all got it? Yes. Ok then. I'm going to finish my coffee in peace.3 -
Ha ha - I took it in stride, Mod, even with the sad (being silly) reaction face I made, it's all good
I get where you're coming from, but I'm hard to offend. Can't speak for others, but I'm VERY jokey. So I'll take the hit for this one, it's easy to encourage me once I get going. 2 -
@jasperdog52554 - I hope you're still doing better!
I know I said I eat a lot of cheese, but I guess I think of "a lot of cheese" as maybe 2-3 oz per day, max. And honestly, my family history tends to fall on the side of more icky-tummy reaction to dairy, so I was nervous to try adding more dairy (my mom got more sensitive to it as she got older, but it was milk products, not cheese).
Turns out, amping up my cheese consumption the past few days or so has helped a lot in decreasing the Souper Happy Fun Bathroom Time - I've only been loosey goosey about half the time, since - My history with sensitivity to dairy has typically revolved around issues with ice cream/ice milk, and milk...not cheese. So I'm glad to report this. However, I've still got some fiber capsules on order with Amazon coming soon, just to be on the safe side (they're the kind that add bulk as well).
@ bjwoodzy I am still doing better. Thanks for asking
I have the same issues with milk and ice cream as you. Though it causes mostly gas for me. I was eating near zero carb to begin with, so upping carbs from cheese and adding veggies has definitely seemed to help. Though, I do miss the zero gas on very low carb. Veggies of any sort seem to affect me that way. 1 -
@WBB55 I am a keto newbie and also ran to the bathroom after a 40g fat meal but didnt realize why. Thanks for the info (makes sense to me). I would be interested to hear any info you might have related to 'no gall bladder'. I am in the same boat and very recently learned about ox bile.1
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jasperdog52554 wrote: »@ bjwoodzy I am still doing better. Thanks for asking I have the same issues with milk and ice cream as you. Though it causes mostly gas for me. I was eating near zero carb to begin with, so upping carbs from cheese and adding veggies has definitely seemed to help. Though, I do miss the zero gas on very low carb. Veggies of any sort seem to affect me that way.
Oh, I'm so glad to hear you're doing better!0 -
@WBB55 my sister is going to have hers removed soon, and I know the doc said it means she may have a greasier stool because of it. I don't have much more info on it, though, but keeping this topic on board - someone may pop in with advice on keto diet without a gallbladder.
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@WBB55 I am a keto newbie and also ran to the bathroom after a 40g fat meal but didnt realize why. Thanks for the info (makes sense to me). I would be interested to hear any info you might have related to 'no gall bladder'. I am in the same boat and very recently learned about ox bile.
There is a section in this link that has multiple gall bladder discussions
I think it's under the title Navigating LCHF without a gall bladder
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10103966/start-here-the-lcd-launch-pad#latest0 -
@jasperdog52554 - I hope you're still doing better!
I know I said I eat a lot of cheese, but I guess I think of "a lot of cheese" as maybe 2-3 oz per day, max. And honestly, my family history tends to fall on the side of more icky-tummy reaction to dairy, so I was nervous to try adding more dairy (my mom got more sensitive to it as she got older, but it was milk products, not cheese).
Turns out, amping up my cheese consumption the past few days or so has helped a lot in decreasing the Souper Happy Fun Bathroom Time - I've only been loosey goosey about half the time, since - My history with sensitivity to dairy has typically revolved around issues with ice cream/ice milk, and milk...not cheese. So I'm glad to report this. However, I've still got some fiber capsules on order with Amazon coming soon, just to be on the safe side (they're the kind that add bulk as well).
Glad to hear upping cheese helped! This kind of discussion is important cause you never know who else might be feeling the same way and is too afraid to ask. Also, anyone who gets "offended" by these types of posts clearly doesn't have kids. Nothing phases me anymore.. and I think that goes for all moms. We've been through and seen it all. lmao!2 -
I'm not sure if mentioning this is allowed... but I have added "Fiberwise" daily and it has completely regulated my system. Very gentle and doesn't taste bad. I use the sugar free so I don't stress about additional carbs. I highly recommend simply because it works for me! www.melaleuca.com/ekemprowski0
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I'm not sure if mentioning this is allowed... but I have added "Fiberwise" daily and it has completely regulated my system. Very gentle and doesn't taste bad. I use the sugar free so I don't stress about additional carbs. I highly recommend simply because it works for me! *********************
MFP Community Guidelines state:Additional Guidelines for the Main Forums
14. No Advertising, Self-Promotion, or Fund-Raising
a) You may not post any links or mentions of other services, websites, or businesses from which you or an associate might benefit financially or otherwise. This includes, but is not limited to; posts that contain links to offsite blog posts and social media. You also may not solicit off-Forum contact from which you might benefit, e.g. "message me for more info", “I can get you free samples”, etc.
b) Requests or solicitations for donations are also not allowed. This includes requesting contributions to “pooled fund” competitions, requests for votes in any venue (online contests, etc.), and even requests for charitable contributions. As you can imagine, we have a lot of people who would like to raise money for worthy causes through the site. As much as we'd like to support these causes, if we were to allow requests for donations, the forums would quickly become full of such requests which would take away from the main purpose of the forums - to support one another.
c) Posts or messages to members promoting websites that compete with MyFitnessPal are also prohibited.
You can mention a product, but not include a link to your personal selling site.
Please remove the link, thanks.0 -
Oh, I'm sorry! I will gladly delete - I just don't know how!???
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baconslave wrote: »walker1world wrote: »
Was that really necessary? The title is TMI. If you don't want to read about TMI topics, save yourself a click and skip it next time.
No need to say things that might make the OP feel bad. We're here to support and help.
I should be taken to dinner for having to put on my mod hat today.
So remember dem Community guidelines... blah... blah.... no insulting posts.
We all got it? Yes. Ok then. I'm going to finish my coffee in peace.
I think you're jumping the gun on this one. I'm pretty certain it was meant to be a good-natured joke in response to the original "take us to dinner" line.Oh, I'm sorry! I will gladly delete - I just don't know how!???
If you still can, there should be a gray gear in the upper right hand corner of that post when you mouse over it. You can click on the gear and it will pop up a little menu with "Edit" as one of the options.1 -
There isn't
I will contact the moderator to ask to have it removed. Thanks again! 1
This discussion has been closed.