Question I'm not sure I'm allowed to ask about the main forum
co_lau
Posts: 35 Member
Having read through the "we do not talk about THEM" in the pinned posts, I'm not sure this question is acceptable, but I'm a little terrified to ask on the main forums.
Why is low-carb disparaged by so many on the main forums here? Having read some of the posts out there, I was surprised by the aggressive anti-LC sentiment and I don't really understand why this happens. Logically, if members are decreasing their caloric intake, their carb intake lowers. If members are focusing on consuming more protein, their carb intake will lower to adjust their macros ratios.
Why is specifically focusing on limiting carb intake consider taboo?
Why is low-carb disparaged by so many on the main forums here? Having read some of the posts out there, I was surprised by the aggressive anti-LC sentiment and I don't really understand why this happens. Logically, if members are decreasing their caloric intake, their carb intake lowers. If members are focusing on consuming more protein, their carb intake will lower to adjust their macros ratios.
Why is specifically focusing on limiting carb intake consider taboo?
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It's currently viewed by a large segment of the population in general, as being mo different than the anti-fat campaign of the late-1900s. We all saw how that turned out.2
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Honestly the anti-low carb diet thing is everywhere. I am constantly seeing news stories and magazine articles about how carbs are good for you. You can lose weight eating carbs. Also I think the whole IIFYM thing is really big right now and lots of the weight loss bloggers and instagrammers are all about how they can eat ice cream sundaes and still lose weight. Of course if you really pay attention they are eating some REALLY weird concoctions that do not seem like real food at all. Like protein waffles stacked with sugar free cool whip, powdered peanut butter, and crushed Oreos or something. In my mind if you want stuff like this for breakfast every day then you should probably consider cutting back on carbs because you might have a sugar addiction. lol. Just give me some bacon and eggs!
Also I think there are people out that are so hooked on their carby favorites that they get irrationally angry when anyone suggests they'd be better off without them.
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Honestly the anti-low carb diet thing is everywhere. I am constantly seeing news stories and magazine articles about how carbs are good for you. You can lose weight eating carbs. Also I think the whole IIFYM thing is really big right now and lots of the weight loss bloggers and instagrammers are all about how they can eat ice cream sundaes and still lose weight. Of course if you really pay attention they are eating some REALLY weird concoctions that do not seem like real food at all. Like protein waffles stacked with sugar free cool whip, powdered peanut butter, and crushed Oreos or something. In my mind if you want stuff like this for breakfast every day then you should probably consider cutting back on carbs because you might have a sugar addiction. lol. Just give me some bacon and eggs!
Also I think there are people out that are so hooked on their carby favorites that they get irrationally angry when anyone suggests they'd be better off without them.
I think that can be a big part of it. I lived with prediabetic blood glucose numbers for a year as I tried to cut back calories. The whole CI<CO focus because I could not stand the idea of walking away from soda, candy and treats (baked foods). I'll just eat less, right? Pshaw. I tried that or a year and put on over 15 more pounds. LOL All because I didn't want to give up my carbs.
I think another reason people argue against LHF as being helpful is that for about half of them, it isn't. I remember seeing a detary comparison study once that showed that those with insulin resistance (PCOS, NAFLAD, T2D, prediabetes, Alzheimer's, CAD) lose weight better on a LCHF diet. Those who were insulin sensitive, and healthy, did not lose any faster on a LCHF diet. There was no difference.
So, the people who do not benefit are often the young. As they age and push into middle age, and are basically given the time to develop IR, they may change their tune. About 50% (or more) of people develop some sort of IR. My guess is more.
When I was younger I ate low fat. I seemed healthy. My jogs on the weekends were half marathons. I climbed mountains for 6 hours afterwork, for goodness sake. I "knew" that a low fat diet was healthy. I knew it because it was working for me. I remember scoffing at Atkins.... LOL Oh, dumb young me.
It's sort of like how I knew how to parent better than others BEFORE I ever had kids. LOL Thank goodness I kept my mouth shut. That old saying about walking a mile in someone else's shoes still holds true. People just forget that. I know that I still do too.18 -
I'm kind of surprised to hear there's so much sentiment against low-carb, considering the number of people with WLS these days. I'm post-VSG and this WOE would be fine with them except for the HF component. We were basically told only protein was fine. Maybe a little veg. In fact, we were told, not eating at all was fine. Obviously, what they wanted was for us to use our fat stores.1
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IMO, I think Low Carb eating is vastly misunderstood by most people. They think we eliminate ALL veggies and fruits. People really believe we need those 5 servings of fruit and vegs daily to be "healthy". Its been ingrained in this generation. Secondly, we are SUGAR addicted. Plain and simple. The SAD diet has made crave carbs but even that is better that what most people eat. The other day I went to Farmer's Boys, which is a hamburger place, and I was trying to find something to eat when I noticed that the one of the meals had more calories than I eat all day lol AND crazy carbs. Then a young man came up and order the meal with a MILKSHAKE. I was like wow thats crazy.4
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I've been told that my woe is a "fad" (ignorance abounds), and my favorite statement is, "But I love...insert whatever food here you can think of". These comments come from friends and family. I've learned to ignore them and do my thing (that's worked for me).
My shift in looking at food with this woe has been that this is now my way of life (definitely not a fad), and why would you love any food that doesn't love you back?! Most people have stopped asking about it. They can see the results, and don't know what to say to me anymore! I know they've been waiting for me to revert back to my old woe, and begin regaining the weight I've lost! As I have so many times in the past! But, it's not going to happen! I know this to my core!! I'm finally finished with losing weight, and it feels wonderful (weird, but wonderful!!)!!
I don't venture from this group very often. I find that's best for me since haters are going to hate!12 -
I remember when my cousin first mentioned that she thought I should try keto for my RA. I had 1000 things I swore to her that I could not give up. I just wanted to cling to those carbs for dear life and was so offended that anyone could suggest I quit eating them! hahaha. Seriously though I was a little resistant. Then I started doing some reading. I was a little ahead of the game because I already thought the war on fat was BS so I wasn't scared of increasing fats at all. In fact I ate a pretty high fat moderate carb diet to start with and it made it really hard to keep calories in check. If I cut back I stayed hungry. So I went for it and now I'm the one rolling my eyes when people say they can't give up their French fries and bread!
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My husband is home from his traveling job for a couple of weeks and has put things on the grocery list that make me bite my lips.... HARD... trying to keep silent. I will still cook the LCHF way and let him eat his canned peaches (in syrup) and Little Debbie snacks. The thought of eating those things make me gag. I am having steak instead!
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Honestly the anti-low carb diet thing is everywhere. I am constantly seeing news stories and magazine articles about how carbs are good for you. You can lose weight eating carbs. Also I think the whole IIFYM thing is really big right now and lots of the weight loss bloggers and instagrammers are all about how they can eat ice cream sundaes and still lose weight. Of course if you really pay attention they are eating some REALLY weird concoctions that do not seem like real food at all. Like protein waffles stacked with sugar free cool whip, powdered peanut butter, and crushed Oreos or something. In my mind if you want stuff like this for breakfast every day then you should probably consider cutting back on carbs because you might have a sugar addiction. lol. Just give me some bacon and eggs!
Also I think there are people out that are so hooked on their carby favorites that they get irrationally angry when anyone suggests they'd be better off without them.
If IIFYM includes indulging in high volumes of sugar for ice cream sundaes it doesn't sound much different than CICO. I lost weight eating gummy worms and 3 musketeers bars at 19, shame my metabolism doesn't work that way at 40!7 -
I tried Atkins like 10 years ago and the second or third day I experienced the "flu". I didn't know exactly what it was but I thought "any diet that makes someone feel like this is not good and probably dangerous" since then, I've seen other people fail at low carb, they lose weight then gain it all back so I had the opinion that it was ankther fad diet that doesn't work long term. Now people are all about IIFYM, and the "just eat less calories" mentality. They oversimplify something complex. They also think that the only reason low carb works is because we are just eating less calories so there's no need to restrict carbs2
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I can tell you that the only reason I tried this was because I just had a baby and I'm nursing and when I nurse I crave cheese and meats really badly so I figured I'd give it a shot because that's all I wanted to eat lately anyway and I wanted to lose weight. After i started doing research I was confident this would work for me5
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What does IIFYM mean??1
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What does IIFYM mean??
@becwana "If It Fits Your Macros." The dieting theory that as long as you keep you carb/fat/protein in a range, while limiting calories, you may have those calories from ANY source and still lose weight. The idea that a calorie is a calorie regardless of where it is sourced.2 -
In answer to the post - I think it is unfortunately human nature to be dismissive of any thinking that goes against our own beliefs - you have to be open minded to seriously look into this woe - once I started reading and learning, it astonished me that despite all this wealth of information being out there, available to anyone to find out, explaining with evidence why these particular foods are not good for us, hardly anybody knows about it / believes it. This is because it goes against their own belief systems and if they were to accept it, they would then have to either give up their beloved carbs or continue eating with the full knowledge of the harm it can do! They don't want to take either option so they choose to ignore / dismiss and even scoff and sneer at people who do believe it. I just live and let live these days - if people ask me and they are genuinely interested and want to know, I will tell them - otherwise I just don't bother!7
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IMO, I think Low Carb eating is vastly misunderstood by most people. They think we eliminate ALL veggies and fruits.
THIS! but to be truthful, I have seen some low-carbers around the Internet post their daily food logs and it is exactly that --> an unhealthy and low-nutritional mess based on a menu high in bad fats, preservatives and artificial ingredients, with little to no fresh fruits or vegetables, and a lot of processed meats. For people educated about good nutrition and the value of whole foods, that is hardly a menu one can endorse. However, as many of us here know we can do low carb/high fat that is extremely healthy and nutritious, but it really is about personal choices.
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KarlynKeto wrote: »IMO, I think Low Carb eating is vastly misunderstood by most people. They think we eliminate ALL veggies and fruits.
THIS! but to be truthful, I have seen some low-carbers around the Internet post their daily food logs and it is exactly that --> an unhealthy and low-nutritional mess based on a menu high in bad fats, preservatives and artificial ingredients, with little to no fresh fruits or vegetables, and a lot of processed meats. For people educated about good nutrition and the value of whole foods, that is hardly a menu one can endorse. However, as many of us here know we can do low carb/high fat that is extremely healthy and nutritious, but it really is about personal choices.
To be fair, that's exactly what The Bear did, and he lived to be older than I really want to, and died in a car accident. xD He had a very hardline stance of "no vegetation whatsoever".3 -
A short chapter (5) in the Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living is devoted to this very question, in part to give us ketophiles some ammunition to counter the usual cultural and other objections.
For example: Low carb diets are unbalanced!
A possible rejoinder: What makes a diet balanced? It can only be the absence of a genuinely essential nutrient. So, where's the research that says carbs are essential, in the sense that key amino and fatty acids must be supplied from dietary sources? [Silence.] It's ok, I'll wait. [Silence.] Sure, glucose is essential, but your body will produce what it needs from existing supplies of amino acids, triglycerides, lactic acid, etc. [Silence].....
I think I have observed these 6 recurring factors at play in people unwilling to reexamine their "common sense" view that LC=crazy.
1. Food messages that have been sculpted to align with the financial interests of the food and pharmaceutical industries and create cultural misperceptions that are hard to shake (such as the enduring residue of decades of low-fat propaganda).
2. Flawed conclusions flowing from cultural misperceptions, such as the faulty syllogism that since dietary carbs are essential (false) and we did not evolve so as to be able to use ketones as an alternative fuel for the long haul (false), ketosis can only serve as a temporary "emergency" state (also false).
3. The unrealistic expectation that someone beginning a ketogenic diet should be able to keto-adapt almost immediately (when in fact it takes at least 2, and more often 4-6 weeks).
4. The alienating effect of quasi-religious zeal on the part of adherents of unpopular belief systems.
5. The prevalence of gimmick and get-rich-quick diets and supplements in the popular nutritional landscape.
6. The human tendency to reduce or prevent cognitive dissonance, which just might arise from accepting ketogenic principles while wanting it to be well with God and the world to chew through bags of Doritos between midnight and 2:00am.....
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My husband is home from his traveling job for a couple of weeks and has put things on the grocery list that make me bite my lips.... HARD... trying to keep silent. I will still cook the LCHF way and let him eat his canned peaches (in syrup) and Little Debbie snacks. The thought of eating those things make me gag. I am having steak instead!
Omg are you married to my husband? Those are like his FAVE snacks although now I don't buy them lol Ill buy cookies to bake (so theres only a limited amount and once they are gone, they're gone)2 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »KarlynKeto wrote: »IMO, I think Low Carb eating is vastly misunderstood by most people. They think we eliminate ALL veggies and fruits.
THIS! but to be truthful, I have seen some low-carbers around the Internet post their daily food logs and it is exactly that --> an unhealthy and low-nutritional mess based on a menu high in bad fats, preservatives and artificial ingredients, with little to no fresh fruits or vegetables, and a lot of processed meats. For people educated about good nutrition and the value of whole foods, that is hardly a menu one can endorse. However, as many of us here know we can do low carb/high fat that is extremely healthy and nutritious, but it really is about personal choices.
To be fair, that's exactly what The Bear did, and he lived to be older than I really want to, and died in a car accident. xD He had a very hardline stance of "no vegetation whatsoever".
Not sure who 'the Bear' is, but if he lived to be old and has died, he fortunately predates most of the really bad fats, fast food and preservatives we see on the shelves today. But I think I know where you're going with this, as there are a lot of people that believe that all nutrition comes from fruits and vegetables, and forget that the nutritional value found in many plants food are also found in protein and fats. I know that was something I had to learn, and it certainly made becoming a low-carber much easier. I think it's absolutely possible for a person to live a long healthy life with little plant food, but me personally would miss it. :-)5 -
"So, where's the research that says carbs are essential"-RalfLott
This EXACTLY is my thought process. Up until we began cultivating grains, humans lived fine without bread or sugar (outside natural fruit). And when we did eat vegtables or fruit, it was only when it was in season (which was a short time) and geographically available to us. How did the human race survive without these "so-called" essential carbs?3 -
"So, where's the research that says carbs are essential"-RalfLott
This EXACTLY is my thought process. Up until we began cultivating grains, humans lived fine without bread or sugar (outside natural fruit). And when we did eat vegtables or fruit, it was only when it was in season (which was a short time) and geographically available to us. How did the human race survive without these "so-called" essential carbs?
I'd like to take credit, but these are really Stephen Phinney and Jeff Volek's lines!2 -
KarlynKeto wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »KarlynKeto wrote: »IMO, I think Low Carb eating is vastly misunderstood by most people. They think we eliminate ALL veggies and fruits.
THIS! but to be truthful, I have seen some low-carbers around the Internet post their daily food logs and it is exactly that --> an unhealthy and low-nutritional mess based on a menu high in bad fats, preservatives and artificial ingredients, with little to no fresh fruits or vegetables, and a lot of processed meats. For people educated about good nutrition and the value of whole foods, that is hardly a menu one can endorse. However, as many of us here know we can do low carb/high fat that is extremely healthy and nutritious, but it really is about personal choices.
To be fair, that's exactly what The Bear did, and he lived to be older than I really want to, and died in a car accident. xD He had a very hardline stance of "no vegetation whatsoever".
Not sure who 'the Bear' is, but if he lived to be old and has died, he fortunately predates most of the really bad fats, fast food and preservatives we see on the shelves today. But I think I know where you're going with this, as there are a lot of people that believe that all nutrition comes from fruits and vegetables, and forget that the nutritional value found in many plants food are also found in protein and fats. I know that was something I had to learn, and it certainly made becoming a low-carber much easier. I think it's absolutely possible for a person to live a long healthy life with little plant food, but me personally would miss it. :-)
He was the Grateful Dead's sound man I think. He was known for eating a 100% carnivorous diet for a number of decades, along with being a driving force behind the hippie movement... Today that seems funny to me: a carnivorous hippie. LOL
https://zerocarbzen.com/the-bear/4 -
KarlynKeto wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »KarlynKeto wrote: »IMO, I think Low Carb eating is vastly misunderstood by most people. They think we eliminate ALL veggies and fruits.
THIS! but to be truthful, I have seen some low-carbers around the Internet post their daily food logs and it is exactly that --> an unhealthy and low-nutritional mess based on a menu high in bad fats, preservatives and artificial ingredients, with little to no fresh fruits or vegetables, and a lot of processed meats. For people educated about good nutrition and the value of whole foods, that is hardly a menu one can endorse. However, as many of us here know we can do low carb/high fat that is extremely healthy and nutritious, but it really is about personal choices.
To be fair, that's exactly what The Bear did, and he lived to be older than I really want to, and died in a car accident. xD He had a very hardline stance of "no vegetation whatsoever".
Not sure who 'the Bear' is, but if he lived to be old and has died, he fortunately predates most of the really bad fats, fast food and preservatives we see on the shelves today. But I think I know where you're going with this, as there are a lot of people that believe that all nutrition comes from fruits and vegetables, and forget that the nutritional value found in many plants food are also found in protein and fats. I know that was something I had to learn, and it certainly made becoming a low-carber much easier. I think it's absolutely possible for a person to live a long healthy life with little plant food, but me personally would miss it. :-)
He was the Grateful Dead's sound man I think. He was known for eating a 100% carnivorous diet for a number of decades, along with being a driving force behind the hippie movement... Today that seems funny to me: a carnivorous hippie. LOL
https://zerocarbzen.com/the-bear/
Wow! Thanks for the link. I plan to read more of that site. What a fascinating guy, and a great perspective on the modern diet. I agree it's funny to put carnivore and hippy in the same sentence, I know my 'hippy' GD following friends are all big on fruit and veggie juicing. Next time I see them I am soooo asking them about this guy.2 -
A lot of people I know feel that the diet is doomed to fail once the dieter starts to add carbs back in and starts to eat "normally." I always counter this by pointing out that that is true of any diet; if the person goes back to their old eating habits, then of course the weight will come back. I've seen that to be true of low calorie diets just as often as I've seen it with low carb diets of every stripe.5
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A lot of people I know feel that the diet is doomed to fail once the dieter starts to add carbs back in and starts to eat "normally." I always counter this by pointing out that that is true of any diet; if the person goes back to their old eating habits, then of course the weight will come back. I've seen that to be true of low calorie diets just as often as I've seen it with low carb diets of every stripe.
Diets are never doomed to fail, but some people are. They do it to themselves. Those you know would do well to wrap their heads around this fact.9 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Diets are never doomed to fail, but some people are. They do it to themselves. Those you know would do well to wrap their heads around this fact.
I see it over and over again.
One friend, who I've been urging to try low-carb for years, has finally developed diabetes. He isn't on insulin yet. His doctor told him to go on a low-carb diet. He did and lost 50 pounds. But last time we saw him he had gained 25 pounds back in less than 6 months. Why? He simply cannot give up the fries and the burger buns and the chips. And the bags of cookies at night. The triple dessert sampler at restaurants. The bread basket. And this is with full knowledge that if he doesn't stop, he will end up on insulin. He just can't give up the carbs for more than a few months.3 -
I've been listening to 'The Thin Woman's Brain' on Audible. Fascinating and enlightening read that could serve your friend well. @LauraCoth2
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Majcolorado wrote: »I've been listening to 'The Thin Woman's Brain' on Audible. Fascinating and enlightening read that could serve your friend well. @LauraCoth
Thank you. Problem is, he's in denial. So's his very large wife.
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Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Diets are never doomed to fail, but some people are. They do it to themselves. Those you know would do well to wrap their heads around this fact.
I see it over and over again.
One friend, who I've been urging to try low-carb for years, has finally developed diabetes. He isn't on insulin yet. His doctor told him to go on a low-carb diet. He did and lost 50 pounds. But last time we saw him he had gained 25 pounds back in less than 6 months. Why? He simply cannot give up the fries and the burger buns and the chips. And the bags of cookies at night. The triple dessert sampler at restaurants. The bread basket. And this is with full knowledge that if he doesn't stop, he will end up on insulin. He just can't give up the carbs for more than a few months.
I think you mean... he will end up dead at a much younger age, after going blind, having kidney problems, and both legs amputated....
Just sayin'....4
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