Carbohydrate addiction - for real?
RalfLott
Posts: 5,036 Member
Here's a riveting 5-part presentation by low-carb advocate Jackie Eberstein, RN.
https://youtu.be/8X8boLYmVo8
https://www.youtube.com/embed/videoseries?list=PL449805AB8C1964B8
@baconslave @Dragonwolf
https://youtu.be/8X8boLYmVo8https://www.youtube.com/embed/videoseries?list=PL449805AB8C1964B8
@baconslave @Dragonwolf
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Great series! I am a carb addict, which is why all carby foods have been taken out of the house so there is no temptation. Went spice shopping and found my brain "lights" up going down the baking aisle at the grocery store, smelling the overpowering scent of sugar.10
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@RalfLott thanks for the link. I can relate to the speakers introductory remarks about getting discouraged when talking about eating healthy. Today I have been teaching my English language students about healthy eating and today they literally walked out of the room. I am finding it hard to get anyone interested even though they are so sick with diabetes and lack of exercise. I was trying to teach about packaged food versus real food. Oh well
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If you really grab one person per year, you'll have done heroic public service.
Plus, you never know what might eventually sprout from the seed you planted - in today's world of stimulus overload, people have to hear things again and again and again..... to penetrate their conscious awareness.11 -
Yes, I agree about repetition. After all, this is something that the fast food and sugary advertisers have known for a long time - repeating their message works! I find that I need to hear the same message about healthy eating many times for it to really sink in. I'm not stupid but repetition just seems to be necessary.6
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Can't watch it yet but can confirm carb addiction is very real. I can easily sit down and pound back a whole bag of family sized chips if I let myself. Especially Doritos or pringles. I haven't bought chips in a year or two. The only thing left that gets me is popcorn, especially at the movies. I don't like any substitutes so I go very rarely, a few times a year and allow myself the bucket of popcorn. Yeah I eat most of the bucket myself.. lmao.. it's just mindless eating with my brain saying "More, more, more! This is awesome! Butter is amazing!". Because of that. no popcorn or chips at home, lol.
Anyway, yes, carb addiction is a real thing!4 -
I think I read her (and husband's) book several years ago. Initially they encouraged eating carbs in one big meal for an hour a day and low to no carbs the remainder of the day. It worked for me in 1999 but was not a sustainable WOE for me. Each time I tried it again over the years I failed.
This forum and links have taught me how to do low carb properly to make a lasting difference for me.2 -
I haven't been able to watch the video yet, but I've started supplementing amino acids per a couple protocols, kind of making my own up, and I had a BFO about it yesterday - when you eat sugar you get that serotonin et al rush. When you take aminos, you fill up those receptors. So if you're full up. there's little rush to get, and therefore little cravings that follow.
I've said in another thread, with my insulin resistance and binge eating issues, one craving could lead to one bite which could lead to entire packets for things gone in practically in instant! Since going low carb, most of those cravings diminished, but after a period of time, usually 7-14 days, I would kind of "hit a wall" with the cravings, spiraling out, and feeling the feel-good only-food-that-will-satisfy compulsion that I couldn't outrun.
Since adding in the aminos and such, my sleep has improved, I'm doing better managing stress (trying to move having had an impossible time finding a place - and now having finally found a place - not having the money to actually move!!! - among other things), the cravings are diminished (instead of having a nearly insatiable thought to eat sweets with/after every meal, I've now had maybe 2 compulsive eating episodes in about a month, versus 4-10, and the volume has been realistic compared to a normal person, etc. If it is a placebo effect, I'm thrilled.).
Mentally, I was getting back to a good place already, so these are like the backup support system. These are the three articles that really flipped a switch for me. And honestly, without them, the compulsion for sweets was still there, likely tied to the insulin resistance and such, and these people who could just quit sweeteners, well, they seemed like willpower aliens from another universe to me, the concept was just so foreign. I'm still not making the progress I'd like overall, but I'm having to adjust a lot of things right now in support of overall health, and that comes first for me - knowing weight lost can't help but follow once the other soldiers are marching in rank and file!
carbsyndrome.com/is-your-brain-two-quarts-low/
foodrenegade.com/how-beat-sugar-cravings-glutamine/
https://afpafitness.com/research-articles/alcoholism-need-vitamins-become-well-2
And really, this makes so much sense that addiction tendencies and all that seem to stem from deficiencies, poor receptors, and all that sort of thing... I look forward to seeing if my deficiency is treated in time and able to change things up...8 -
KnitMiss-- I take amino essential acids developed for kidney patients (and dialysis patients are helped with energy too) and have discovered now that I am fasting there is far less drive to consume sugar/sweets. Mine are very costly, but for dieters the OTC brands may work as well though they are not balanced as in the body (any AAs marked 500mg per amino)
But when I DO have anything carb in the house it is a total mistake..so I can't even buy anything with plans to have 'selectively', popcorn planned for Friday movie night at home gets eaten daily, LC crackers, etc also hard. But LITTLE sugar pressure, which was my worst.
Abn4m-Repetition: Ben Franklin said it best .."It takes 12 times to enforce a message" he wrote a great example of it too long to put here. (Basically in modern language: we ignore totally, then scoff, then are annoyed to see it, then finally think..I need to check this out."5 -
tishsmith101 wrote: »I think I read her (and husband's) book several years ago. Initially they encouraged eating carbs in one big meal for an hour a day and low to no carbs the remainder of the day. It worked for me in 1999 but was not a sustainable WOE for me. Each time I tried it again over the years I failed.
This forum and links have taught me how to do low carb properly to make a lasting difference for me.
She is not only a recovering carb addict but also worked for Dr. Atkins for 30 years (and contributed a chapter on her experiences with Atkins to Phinney and Volek's Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living).
I'd guess the likelihood of her advocating carb binges is about -10%.2 -
Wow..I'm sitting here in awe. This video is awesome. I am a carb addict. I quit cigarettes 7 years ago after smoking for 38 years. I gained 30 plus pounds that I am still carrying around. This explains why I have such a huge addiction even to foods with artificial sweetners. The feeling I have for carbs is so similar to nicotine...it's scary. Anyway, this information is just what I needed. More research for me on the subject. I've got a plan now and hope to see some results. Thanks for sharing this video!!2
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Awesome low carb lesson. Thanks for sharing.1
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It was a real eye-opener for me, too!
She seems to have a very solid grasp of things. But to hear someone in her position talk of her continuing struggles speaks volumes about the grip of the addiction.3 -
Bump for all us present and former (but not future) carb addicts!5
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Bumping for NYE carb hangovers.2
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Bump! Wonderful information!0
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What I find fascinating is that in the MFP main forums this has been discussed many times, and the general consensus from non-low-carbers (the CICO, IIFYM, etc. crowd) is that it DOESN'T exist. Even in threads less than a year old.
I find that kind of belief a little like the pre-socratic philosophers and general population believing the earth was flat. Despite evidence to the contrary, and experts explaining WHY it's a real addiction ... they just refuse to believe.
Since 2013 the DSM-V changes have acknowledged 'food addiction' of one type or another. They included 'binge eating disorder' (which didn't previously have a reference), as well as other non-specified eating disorders as well as new behavioural addictions - ie: Gambling.
While not every expert agrees with all the inclusions in the DSM-V, people should respect that it was developed over years with considerable discussion AND a CONSENSUS of EXPERTS. I still agree that neither 'food addiction' nor (more-specifically) 'carbohydrate addiction' should be classified as a "Substance Use Disorder", as I believe them to be better-classified as a "Behavioural Disorder" (according to all current and past diagnostic criteria), but I also believe for many individuals the addictions can certainly qualify as abuse as well.
Let's be honest ... We now acknowledge gambling addiction as a behavioural addiction in the DSM-V, and nobody disputes that it happens to real people and destroys lives. For those addicts, gambling stimulates reward/pleasure receptors in the brain without any substance/physiological component. What we know-as and think-of as carbohydrate addiction does the same thing, but WITH an added physiological/substance component. For nearly 10 years now multiple studies and reviews have confirmed this (there were many previous to this also, but it's become a much more prevalent topic of debate and study recently, so I only included some studies from the past decade):
2007: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2235907/
2009: http://jn.nutrition.org/content/139/3/620.full
2009; https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19500625
2009: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19223127
2010: http://journals.lww.com/co-clinicalnutrition/Abstract/2010/07000/Neurobiology_of_food_addiction.3.aspx
2010: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3124340/
2011: http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fpsyt.2011.00061/full
2012: http://link.springer.com/protocol/10.1007/978-1-61779-458-2_23
2012: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/eat.20957/full
2013: http://journals.lww.com/co-clinicalnutrition/Abstract/2013/07000/Sugar_addiction___pushing_the_drug_sugar_analogy.11.aspx
2014: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0149763414002140
2014: http://journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fpsyt.2014.00038/full
2014: http://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/6/9/3653/htm
2015: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11920-015-0563-3
2016: http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/65/7/1797
That's just a few. Sure, there is some dissenting opinion - mainly in those who still contend that after 2 decades of research there's still not enough evidence. This seems similar to the "no evidence that nicotine is addictive" mantra of 70's, imho.
The above studies and review touch on the subject of the pleasure/reward stimulation... but in addition carbohydrate addicts almost universally experience symptoms of withdrawal (cravings) - which, while maybe not as physiologically severe as that of something like heroin - those cravings are still incredibly difficult to overcome for a very large population.
With all this in mind, the only people I can see denying carbohydrate addiction are those either funded by the food industry (whose lobby does NOT want 'food addiction' or 'carbohydrate addiction' acknowledged, and will happily pay research scientists boatloads of money to write opinions and reviews counter to the idea), or those that - for whatever reason - choose believe them.9 -
@albertabeefy you know I once had someone say to me "I love to hold puppies a lot. Does that mean it's addictive too?" I said "Have you eve heard of animal hoarding?" Lol
Somehow he still thought he made a great point.
I even had people saying yeah but you aren't going to end up dying or homeless because of sugar. As if something's ability to make you homeless is required as in indicator of addiction. I don't think cigarettes or coffee make too many homeless either but no one doubts their addictive qualities. And of course nobody saw any relation to sugar and possible death....because of course it's not the sugar that did it, it was getting fat and sick. Nobody ever thinks it's fair to say "it's not the alcohol that killed him, it was the driving into a tree or the cirrhosis..." sure, but what caused it right?5 -
You two need your own podcast!2
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Seriously.1
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Bunny & Beefy? Or Beefy & Bunny?
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I would listen religiously
to either.
"Welcome to the Keto B&B...."1 -
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You would be a well-matched pair, I suspect! I'll bet Beefy has maps to a lot of Hare Country.0
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You could call it "Hare-BnB"....1
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@albertabeefy - the problem seems to be you are using logic and reason with those who want to use feelings and emotions. Didn't you know once something has been decided to be true, no amount of facts and further evidence matters? After all, nearly everyone in this group is going to die of a coronary by the age of 50 because we like bacon and actually eat it on a regular basis.
Currently, I am trying to learn Spanish, but for now I am only bilingual in English and Sarcasm.8 -
A page from my FIL's playbook.
He also likes to use the old "n=1 Trumps RCTs" device.
("I've fiddled with pesticides, poisons, and other so-called 'hazardous' materials for 80 years, and I'm still here.")0 -
Sharing this with my non-believer followers on G+. Thank you.1
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