Some thoughts on 5/3/1 and how I might set it up
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^this
I would do upper, lower, upper, lower.
Playing around with volume and intensity amongst the days to figure out recovery.0 -
Sorry to threadjack -
If I want to read 5/3/1, do I buy "Beyond 5/3/1"? Or do I want the original 5/3/1? I'm confused if Beyond 5/3/1 is a sequel or a whole new program.0 -
Another thing I wanted to mention --- I think some people may experience a slight increase in performance by doing the 5/3/1 sets in reverse order.
So basically if it's 5/5/5 week you would warm up per normal in preparation to hit the THIRD (heaviest) set first. Followed by making a load reduction to the middle set, and again for the final set.
You'd need to properly adjust the warmups but for an example using 5/3/1 and 75/85/95% of 300:
Empty bar x 10
135 x 8-10
185 x 4-6
225 x 2
255 x 1
(optional 270x1 depending on the lifter)
285 x 1 (first working set, this is the single at 95%)
255 x 3 (second working set)
225 x 5 (final workset --- you could also AMRAP this set if you wanted to)
This is a bit better on acute fatigue management and some people will probably perform slightly better whereas doing them in forward order you can sometimes create too much fatigue leading up to the top set.0 -
Beyond 5/3/1 builds on the constructs of Jim's 5/3/1 program. Reading BOTH books would be good, but you can prolly run through enough online material on the basics of 5/3/1 to not have to purchase the original (or just check-out the first 5/3/1 from a local library to get the fundamentals?).Sorry to threadjack -
If I want to read 5/3/1, do I buy "Beyond 5/3/1"? Or do I want the original 5/3/1? I'm confused if Beyond 5/3/1 is a sequel or a whole new program.
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Another thing I wanted to mention --- I think some people may experience a slight increase in performance by doing the 5/3/1 sets in reverse order.
Interesting, I've heard of doing reverse pyramids but a reverse Wendler is new. However, Wendler already feels like it's a single heavy set with an extended warm-up, one of the redeeming features is the AMRAP part at weight. But by doing a reverse, you get as little as a single rep at heavy weight while doing a ton of reps at a lighter weight. Would that necessarily help with strength development, or would it lend itself more towards hypertrophy due to increased volume?0 -
Another thing I wanted to mention --- I think some people may experience a slight increase in performance by doing the 5/3/1 sets in reverse order.
So basically if it's 5/5/5 week you would warm up per normal in preparation to hit the THIRD (heaviest) set first. Followed by making a load reduction to the middle set, and again for the final set.
You'd need to properly adjust the warmups but for an example using 5/3/1 and 75/85/95% of 300:
Empty bar x 10
135 x 8-10
185 x 4-6
225 x 2
255 x 1
(optional 270x1 depending on the lifter)
285 x 1 (first working set, this is the single at 95%)
255 x 3 (second working set)
225 x 5 (final workset --- you could also AMRAP this set if you wanted to)
This is a bit better on acute fatigue management and some people will probably perform slightly better whereas doing them in forward order you can sometimes create too much fatigue leading up to the top set.
This is very much like the "*kitten*" option/version of 5/3/1. That one, IIRC, has you jump straight from the 60% warmup to your top set, but that always seemed like too huge a jump to me. This makes more sense, IMO.
eta: MFP edited out the word for illegitimate son.
eta2: And now it's back...0 -
Quick check in, cycle 2, week 2, absolutely love it.
Adapting well to the volume, really pushing myself but not killing myself, havent missed a rep - let alone a work out, and am feeling great.
I definitely feel stronger and am certain Ive made some gains as well.
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^thanks for the update. Nice work.1
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Was really enjoying this until my work schedule shifted, limiting me to a single workout per week. Still hitting my big lifts, but no supplemental work. Bench looks like it'll stall first, only hit 4 reps at the end of cycle 2 vs 5 reps for each of the other lifts.0
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Cycle 3, Week 2.
Im not sure whats going on with me, but feel like Ive hit a wall a bit.
My sleep pattern has changed a bit, and I have had a few nights on the beer, so initially Im putting it down to that.
This week Ive been doing the main 2 lifts and virtually nothing else.
The squats are wiping me out. I think Im not going to put them up for Cycle 4, and have another run where I am.
In general Im feeling strong, definitely making progress on Bench and OHP in particular, and will certainly be carrying on.
I think I just need to manage things a little with regard to what weight Im using on squats.
I am adapting to the volume well, much, much improved from the first cycle where I struggled.
Still loving it, but cycle 3 has been a real step up from the first two!0 -
samhennings wrote: »Cycle 3, Week 2.
Im not sure whats going on with me, but feel like Ive hit a wall a bit.
My sleep pattern has changed a bit, and I have had a few nights on the beer, so initially Im putting it down to that.
This week Ive been doing the main 2 lifts and virtually nothing else.
The squats are wiping me out. I think Im not going to put them up for Cycle 4, and have another run where I am.
In general Im feeling strong, definitely making progress on Bench and OHP in particular, and will certainly be carrying on.
I think I just need to manage things a little with regard to what weight Im using on squats.
I am adapting to the volume well, much, much improved from the first cycle where I struggled.
Still loving it, but cycle 3 has been a real step up from the first two!
How's your diet looking? Have you made any big changes (macros or food adjustments). Are you following the deload schedule?0 -
Deload - sort of.
Going in 4 times in a week to do very easy work just isnt really for me. The first deload week I went in twice and did full body. Not pushing it particularly heavy, but at least coming away feeling I had had a workout.
Second deload week I ended up only going in the once, life got in the way somewhat.
No dietary changes, generally hit my TDEE/just over, get in loads of protein, same as usual really.
Just last week and this I feel pretty "flat". Lacking in a bit of power/energy.
At the moment Im just putting it down to sleep or something like that, will give it a while and see if I can shake it off.0 -
samhennings wrote: »Deload - sort of.
Going in 4 times in a week to do very easy work just isnt really for me. The first deload week I went in twice and did full body. Not pushing it particularly heavy, but at least coming away feeling I had had a workout.
Second deload week I ended up only going in the once, life got in the way somewhat.
No dietary changes, generally hit my TDEE/just over, get in loads of protein, same as usual really.
Just last week and this I feel pretty "flat". Lacking in a bit of power/energy.
At the moment Im just putting it down to sleep or something like that, will give it a while and see if I can shake it off.
Personally, I always suck the first two weeks after a deload. I can still hit my programmed numbers, but my amrap sets are garbage, usually calculating out to be notably worse than before the deload. It's actually why I bailed on 5/3/1 years ago. However, I made myself stick with it this time and found that about halfway into the 3s week after a deload, my strength had bounced back full force.
This is a major reason for why I do 7th week deloads. If I had to deal with half of all of my workset days being crap, I would definitely move on to something else.1 -
Thanks! Makes me feel much better.
Ill keep an eye on how I go next week, and if its anything like you Ill probably switch the the 7th week deload as well.
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Because of my run of single-workout-per-week weeks, I opted to hold off on my deload until last week, week 10. (Doing graveyards also had something to do with the decision.) In my case, a deload week means going cold turkey that week. (My almost-40yo joints thank me.)
Gonna get some zzz's tonight, hit the gym tomorrow, see how I feel.0 -
I didnt go on Friday (week 2, workout 4), have just skipped it.
Moved onto week 3 today and had a really good workout.
If it keeps up like this I think Im in the @Gallowmere1984 side of things and Ill switch to a 7th week deload.
Thanks guys0 -
Results of today's workout were a little off of my last heavy session, repping 6 times at the 5+ weights in each of bench/OHP. Last time at these weights I got 9 reps, but with slightly lighter weights (-10# bench, -5# OHP), so not sure how much of a wash it is.0
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Mine have been up and down, take bench (All n+ set):
cycle 3, week 1 52.5 kg x 12
cycle 3, week 2 57.5 kg x 8
cycle 3, week 3 60 kg x 10
Clearly last week was low on reflection, but at the time was all I had.
Seems to me we just have to accept a bad week/session, Im only really going to get concerned if it happens consistently.
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Results of today's workout were a little off of my last heavy session, repping 6 times at the 5+ weights in each of bench/OHP. Last time at these weights I got 9 reps, but with slightly lighter weights (-10# bench, -5# OHP), so not sure how much of a wash it is.
I just use Wendler's formula for calcing the 1RM from AMRAP sets: weight*reps*0.03333+weight. It's obviously not precise for max, but it gives you a good way to compare AMRAP sets.0
