Love the idea of my new diet being "eat more"

kcmsmith0405

Hi everyone,

I have been reading through the threads here and seeing how this eating more thing is working/not working for people. I have been dieting on and off my whole life and on the yo-yo weight scale. I also had Lyme disease for 10 years which caused a host of other issues.

The main thing I have learned about myself recently is that I do not eat because I am hungry (I am almost never actually hungry), I eat because I think it is time - or I like food and it gives me pleasure etc.

I lost 30 lbs eating low carb last year but since last December I have just been hanging at the same weight eating whatever I want. What brings me here is working out. I have been doing Karate 3-5 days a week for the past year and everyday when I come home I can't stop eating, and class is usually 5-7:30 pm or so , so I am eating from 8-9:30 and going to bed feeling full and bloated. I am not "hungry" per se but I want food and all kinds of it. I have also been very tired and low energy. I was eating the majority (aka 1200-1500 cals) at night and that doesn't seem to be working for me, not to mention my macros were all over the place.

Since I haven't been dieting (and when I actually figure it out I have actually been eating right around my TDEE) but just eating whatever I want I figured it was time to stop the "over eating guilt" cycle and see what I can do if I actually eat what EM2WL says I should.

My Stats:
Age: 49
Height: 5'8"
Weight: 197
Measurements (need to redo them haven't taken them in a month or so)

Workouts: Tang So Do minimum 3 nights a week for 45-90 mins ( I usually do 4 nights a week) - including body weight exercises, push-ups, sit-ups, squats, stretches, a few minutes of running several times a week just to get the blood going. And then of course actual karate forms, sparring, basic actions, take downs etc. Some wlaking here and there, mostly sitting at work 40 hours.

I need to be able to do about 50 push-ups (I can only do about 15 now), 50 sit-ups and 50 squats for testing to pass the physical fitness portion of my black belt test which is scheduled for about 12-18 months from now depending on my progress. So basically I want to get stronger and increase my stamina for sparring (since everyone I spar against is 20-30 years younger than me LOL). I would also like to lose another 30 pounds and get into the 160 range.

What I noticed on low carb - I was dying of thirst about 20 mins into my class, my head was clear but the thirst during working out was scary. This doesn't happen when I eat 30-35% carbs which is about where I am now.

Where I am at now:
My TDEE is about 2200-2300 according to fitbit - which seems about right - that is what I have been eating for the past couple of months without really gaining or losing anything. Although I have not been doing this in a healthy way - too much sugar/carbs/bad fat (donuts, fast food and candy!) - not enough protein. Sugar affects me negatively - (probably all the type 2 diabetes in my family). so I need to keep that under control as well. Of course logically too much sugar affects everyone since it has not much nutritional value and replaces nutrient rich foods...

I am focusing on getting enough protein right off the bat. I have been doing this for a few days now and the evening binge fest is already way down. I also noticed I was actually hungry this morning for breakfast - which almost never happens.

So here's to feeding my body and my muscles and hitting my goals I will try and post at least weekly with an update!

FaithSevio

Definitely keep us all posted on your journey. I love reading everyone's take on how they are actually feeling etc. We can all do this together and it helps to have some others on the same path.
I am currently eating 2100 and my Fitbit is averaging 2300 now weekly. I am slowly adding 100 calories weekly. Deathly afraid of weighing myself because it's been bringing me down.
Adding in more protein the past week too. Definitely can see that I am fuller longer and the sugary sweets people bring in to work haven't been calling my name from the place they sit all day. In fact if I turn around in my chair on the cabinet behind me is a jar full of Dove Chocolates and a Heart Shaped Box of Hershey's Pot of Gold and some conversation hearts...haven't touched them all week!!!

heybales

You might need to examine your pre-workout feeding schedule.
If you go into the workout with close to low blood sugar - you can push through a good workout - your muscles have plenty of glucose to use, but your blood sugar will go lower still.

Low blood sugar usually makes people hungry.

And if after you start eating your insulin spikes more than needed, that'll drop your blood sugar even more.

Now more hungry.

You say you don't feel hungry, but the being tired fits in with that.

And this whole arrangement can happen even if you were eating at maintenance - but the timing of the meals and workouts was badly planned.

Just a thought for that part.

Part of the reason for the thirst, or non-thirst with eating more carbs - when you use them from the muscle - water is released they were tied to.
Blood volume isn't as badly hit by sweating - thirst isn't as bad.
But on low carb, body always understores muscle carbs for what it could or wants to do.
So that makes sense.

Which Fitbit are you using for estimating TDEE?
Are you manually logging any of those workouts in Fitbit or MFP?

Because that TDEE sounds low for amount of activity. Why do you think it sounds about right?

Just because body weight doesn't change, doesn't mean that is your potential max TDEE. Many people operate just fine on a suppressed TDEE because of undereating - the body has adapted.
Well, actually strong workouts usually suffer as a result, but otherwise they think operating fine.

http://skepchick.org/2014/02/the-female-athlete-triad-not-as-fun-as-it-sounds/

Sounds like you have some good realistic goals now - keep at it, learn what reasonable deficit means, and watch those physical goals get met!

kcmsmith0405

It's highly likely that I wasn't eating enough before my workout. I can't eat right before I work out or I get terrible heartburn. So I am focusing on eating more earlier in the day. I have been having a protein snack 1-2 hours before I work out. I think the issue was eating so few calories for breakfast and lunch (combined I was only at about 600-800 including snacks) If I am working out late - I just go ahead and have dinner at least 1.5 hours before class. Those days were actually much better as far as the after work out chow down was concerned - I didn't do it nearly as badly.

Blood sugar has always been an issue for me - I was hypoglycemic when I was younger and have since progressed up to pre-diabetic, but I occasionally get weird afternoon drops and hypoglycemia still so I am usually pretty aware of needing to eat. Funny that I didn't consider this for the chowing down, but it makes perfect sense!

I use the fitbit one and keep it clipped to my bra where it is out of the way. Plus all my TDEE calculations elsewhere pretty much equal what my fitbit says. My karate workouts are not super strenuous, its more a mix of high and low intensity most days - though there are some really intense days. And yes I manually log all my workouts in MFP. I estimate the amount of time I was actually moving around as opposed to listening/learning/helping/waiting etc., when I do enter them in MFP (because it seems they want to actually track the time you spend actually doing marital arts and resting is not included). I do not log the days I teach, because those days I usually only do a partial workout as demonstrations. I just let the fitbit count steps and movements for me.

For work I sit all day in a small office with occasional walk breaks - never more than 200 steps. So my daily activity is couch potato with only the karate and housework on the weekends for working out.

One thing I noticed over the past few days - at a higher calories I feel full and it stays for a lot longer. I honestly feel like I am eating too much (based on feeling full all the time not on what I am eating) and keep wondering why I am not gaining, though I know the answer is that my body really does use that many calories per day. I am used to feeling full like this a few times a week - but its odd to feel like this all day long. Part of it may be me needing to swap to some healthier whole food calorie options. Grocery shopping tonight will help!

I redid my measurements - turns out the ones I did a couple of month ago are still spot on:
Waist: 40
Belly Button: 43
Hips: 48
Bust: 44
Under Arms: 40
Upper Thigh: 25
Upper Arm: 15


I do have one question. There are a lot of benefits to fasting for me personally, and I have always enjoyed taking a (very) short break from food in the past. Can I work in an 18 to 24 hour fast once a week without messing things up? Maybe have a high calorie meal after the fast?

Thanks!

empressichel

Love your plans and how you have motivation too.
I would chime in with a couple of things
1. I agree with Heybales that I think your TDEE still sounds a bit low considering your martial arts. When I do strength training, I don't calculate the time I rest during sets etc, it's just the time of the workout from start to finish. The times when you are listening etc will balance out against the very high strenuous moments. I wonder if you are just underestimating your activity level.
2. Not feeling hungry is a sure sign of a lethargic or damaged metabolism. The fact you are now starting to feel hungry is a great sign!
3. Try to get the vast amount of your calories in before your workout. You will see an increase in performance, strength and stamina without having to lose any weight at all A high energy light snack after you workout will balance out things.
4. Fasting. When you are trying to eat at TDEE it is not recommended. Will you be able to eat one meal of 2300 calories? I doubt it, so you would then be eating at a deficit which is not what you are aiming for. Why do you want to fast?
5. I would keep pushing up your calories. You guess TDEE to be 2300 but you say you are eating 2100, so you are not eating at estimated TDEE, you are eating at a deficit. Of course this all depends on what your goals are, but from what I understand, you want better athletic performance, and to repair your metabolism so this suggests TDEE for a period of time.

It may turn out that it is not weight loss that you need to focus on, but stamina and strength gains with body recomposition which can be done at TDEE.

Ichel
Team EM2WL

kcmsmith0405

I'm not looking to reset, I've been eating close to or at my TDEE since early December. I am looking to even out my calories and stop eating them all at night and I am fine if I wind up with a small cut. My metabolism is actually pretty good. My goal is to have plenty of energy, feel good and lose another 30 bs by bring smarter about when and what kind of calories I eat.
If I can eat 2000 calories a day and lose weight slowly, I will be very happy.

kcmsmith0405

oh I forgot to mention today was a pretty intense day at karate and I felt fantastic. So evening out the daily calories and eating more protein instead of carbs and sugar is helping.

When I say there is rest in between - I mean standing in place for 5-10 mins doing nothing in between, not the minute or so rest you would do between weights or machines or HIIT. I don't count small breaks, if I am moving or using my muscles (aka holding stances and positions) I count that. Today was pretty much non-stop so I counted the whole workout time.

heybales

Those are more lengthy breaks - and very difficult to deal with manually logging them in MFP or Fitbit.

Here's the scenario that can go 2 directions, inflated or underestimated calorie burn.

Your Fitbit says for a 2 hr block you burned 600 calories, it saw the standing time, it saw the active time.

You figure out that you were standing say 5 x 10 min during that time, so you refigure your calories as 70 min of workout actually.

So if you have Fitbit synced, and you log start time of say 6pm, duration of 70 min, calorie burn of 400, then that workout replaced the _first_ 70 of the workout with 400 calories, and left the remaining 50 min with whatever calorie burn was assigned there by Fitbit.
Inflated calorie burn likely.

Or you figure you'll fix that, and log 6pm, duration 120 min, 400 calorie burn, to replace the whole block of Fitbit time and stats. Except now you just lost 50 min of calorie burn not accounted for elsewhere.
Underestimated calorie burn likely.

If you don't have Fitbit synced, why are you logging on MFP then?

Also, to @empressichel 's point of comparing lifting.

That database entry for Weights on Fitbit, Strength Training on MFP - has included in it the expected 2-4 min rest for heavy for you style lifting.

I'm betting Martial Arts has included in it the same idea, rests, not that this is some constant knock-down drag-em out street fight going for 60 min straight.

https://sites.google.com/site/compendiumofphysicalactivities/compendia

2 levels of Martial arts.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxjb21wZW5kaXVtb2ZwaHlzaWNhbGFjdGl2aXRpZXN8Z3g6NDI5OGUxYmM0ZGUwZjg1Mg

With their calorie burn based on 6 different studies that were done, the 2 types averaged together.

Because the Fitbit One you use is only going to be good estimates for step-based activity - which karate isn't.
So it's estimating your standing non-moving time as BMR level sleeping calorie burn.
Pretty sure you aren't sleeping in class.

I just tested Fitbit's database entry, and they are using a tad less than the lower calorie burn one intended for practice level.
That would be more correct then - for the whole length of time, don't worry about your standing time.
I'd let the Fitbit estimate on the training days where you are walking around then mainly checking and assisting with form.

kcmsmith0405

Wow that is way too much math for me! LOL

I use the martial arts from MFP (not fitbit) and it is under cardio not strength. I do sync my fitbit.

Just tell me what to enter on the MFP tracker to estimate better? It only really has one martial arts that I found and that was under cardio, which is why I am assuming it is too high - its much more of a HIIT than actual cardio workout.

Because the fitbit one only records steps and that shows I basically burn nothing which is not the case, thats why I record the martial arts part and estimate how many minutes I was actually active.

What I get still matches very closely to when I fill out the worksheet thing from the EM2WL website. So I figure I am doing OK.

I did notice that workouts are MUCH easier with the higher calorie/protein days. I am not wiped out by the end. Friday I had a hard workout, changed and went grocery shopping for another 45 mins and still had some energy. That's a huge change for me.

kcmsmith0405

So after reading a bunch more threads from people doing this EM2WL thing I think I am going to actually do the push and see if I can find my TDEE. As long as I do not gain inches (aka I don't want to buy new clothes - karate uniforms JUST fit and they are expensive LOL) the scale doesn't really matter to me.

So starting at the 1950 ish I have been at for the past week (which was actually a cut from the previous few months), I am going to up by 100 a week and see what happens - including upping my protein. SO this week upping to a minimum 2050, aka no days under 2050.

I am pretty sure I will have to do more than recomp - I am close to 200 lbs and only 5'8" and I do not plan on body building just martial arts and body strength training with increases in the body weight exercises I can do. But I do not feel the need to be dieting and losing fat right now so I am good with sitting here eating tons of food and seeing just how many more tons I can eat hehe.

I do love food. And I REALLY love having energy, strength and stamina.

heybales

So if that was too much math to read through as an example - you were likely doing the first scenario I described.

You should use the database in Fitbit for better estimate - I won't get into the math of why - it is.
Look up Martial Arts - use it for the actual length of time.

If eating same amount daily, you may not even want Fitbit syncing over - so the requirement to manually correct on Fitbit is even more needed.

And right now the Fitbit TDEE happens to match a guess from 5 rough levels - but the Fitbit info is wrong, so.....

You misunderstand the MFP database - the WHOLE thing is called cardio, even though strength training is found in there too.
If you mean some sub-categories - those have nothing to do with how the workout is performed but where people might happen to find it. Even my example of Weights is found under the cardio database.

And HIIT is confusing fad term - it is a form of cardio actually.
But it's been incorrectly applied to all sorts of workouts that are not HIIT.
No, Karate would not be HIIT cardio, or steady-state cardio either.
There really isn't an interval level of cardio to describe what you are doing - action for minutes, standing for many more minutes.

Great news on the energy level - that's first response of you eating more, body willing to do more.
Workouts generally improve too - now you can do some damage that actually requires repairs - that increases the metabolism then.
If more muscle is part of repair, there's a tad increase to metabolism too, especially when used.

You'll likely find a recomp happening anyway. True, a lot slower than if lifting - but still.

Be aware too you will likely find body is going to store more carbs, with attached water, in your muscles for those types of intense glucose-burning workouts.
While that is weight increase, it is also increase of LBM (which includes everything NOT fat, muscle and water even), which is increase of metabolism to manage it.
But indeed, since spread around muscles, shouldn't be increase in inches.

empressichel

So glad to hear that you have an increase in energy already!
One of the great benefits of increasing calories.
Let us know how you get on while increasing the calories. Can't wait to hear!
Ichel
Team EM2WL

kcmsmith0405

I may have gone a bit overboard the past few days- feeling VERY bloated and uncomfortable today And the scale is up 5 lbs - lol. I think my main problem s the junk food I manage to sneak in... need to swap back to healthier options.

kcmsmith0405

@heybales So what is the best way for me to figure out where I should set my daily calories? I am fine with adjusting daily due to workouts and not eating one set amount. I am now using the fitbit database to enter my workouts and let them sync over to MFP, which is where I do all my food/water tracking.

I tend to think I was overestimating the calories burned, as per your example, but I could be wrong about that too. I did start logging my actual time doing the karate (moved it to fitbit app and took it out of MFP).

PS Yesterdays workout in Fitbit was 400 less calories burned than the MFP. So I was grossly overestimating. My TDEE may be lower than I thought. Very good to know!

empressichel

Naturalnut wrote: »

@heybales So what is the best way for me to figure out where I should set my daily calories? I am fine with adjusting daily due to workouts and not eating one set amount. I am now using the fitbit database to enter my workouts and let them sync over to MFP, which is where I do all my food/water tracking.

I tend to think I was overestimating the calories burned, as per your example, but I could be wrong about that too. I did start logging my actual time doing the karate (moved it to fitbit app and took it out of MFP).

PS Yesterdays workout in Fitbit was 400 less calories burned than the MFP. So I was grossly overestimating. My TDEE may be lower than I thought. Very good to know!

Have you used our calculator to work out your estimated TDEE?
http://eatmore2weighless.com/weight-loss-calculator/
Ichel
Team EM2WL

kcmsmith0405

Yes, that was one of the first things I did hehe. It said 2486, which so far the fitbit daily is saying is about 1-200 cals too high.

kcmsmith0405

On a side note - yesterday my husband and I were talking about eating and I told him about what I have been doing and how much more energy and strength I already have. He said - well that's interesting because I have been noticing my fitbit says I have been burning 4-5000 calories a day and I rarely eat over 2500, but I am not losing any weight even with all the working out I've been doing... !! He is going to eat like this with me, to reshape and get more energy. He noticed the difference in my energy. So I sent him off this morning with orders to eat breakfast right away with LOTS of protein. I am pretty sure he is protein deficient - he is a carb/fat kind of eater. I am excited to have a partner for my journey!!

heybales

If you can plan well enough for the variable nature of Fitbit syncing, then follow that other post as to setting up MFP - but don't take the 10-15% deficit off suggested calories.
Just leave at maintain.

Make whatever corrections in Fitbit need to be done for certain workouts.

Your MFP eating goal will be adjusted up as needed for increased daily activity and workouts. And down too as needed if you enable option in Food settings for negative adjustments. And it's good to.

Meet your goal.

You should get a general idea of where you'll be so planning is very possible, it may be that extra dinner amount or snack to finish the day is needed - so plan on what that could be.

And confirm your Fitbit is syncing especially before dinner so you know a good adjustment about and new eating goal.

Not sure if you are familiar with MFP adjustments - but you can click on more details to see the time of the last Fitbit sync and the amount at that time - always confirm it's within last 90 min or 100 calories from what Fitbit says.

Be aware too that MFP will estimate the end of the day inactive time as higher calorie burn than reality, like couch and then bed time starts at say 8pm.
MFP will estimate final 4 hrs calorie burn at higher rate than what Fitbit will share with MFP later, perhaps in morning on first sync.

So if you hit your eating goal at say 8 pm as it shows, come morning you'll find you are 200-300 over possibly.
The amount won't change if you hit the couch and go to bed the same time.
So just leave that much in the green, then by next day you'll have met your goal.

kcmsmith0405

That works for me, this way on my workout days I can come home and eat as my body seems to want to do and on my other days I can just aim for 2000 ish give or take whatever my fitbit adjustment is. Eventually, once I have figured out my actual TDEE, I will probably just even it out for everyday, but I like this method for now - and it worked great for yesterday - though yes I see what you mean about the change in the MFP burned calories, last night the calories allowed were higher than they ended up being today. Since I went by the fitbit number I was actually a little under once it all synced up.

Thank you so much for all the help!! With your patient explanations I am actually starting to understand how all of this works.

kcmsmith0405

I am sitting here, had lunch about 2 hours ago and I am calculating how much more I still get to eat today since it's a workout day (with some extra activity this morning from a meeting) - and I realized my relationship with food is already changing. I did a bit of the ripping the band-aid off approach, but I had not been doing much actual low calorie dieting since Nov 2016. So last week I jumped up to eating about 2000 cal (my estimated TDEE is 2300ish)

In the past few months I actually ate about the same calories I am eating now - but my macros were horrible and the weekly calorie average was from "good" eating days (those under 1600 cals) followed by binge days of 3000 ish cals, when I just ate everything in sight and then some. I would feel guilty about how much I ate and how much I wanted to eat and chastise myself for not having enough self control. Then give myself a pep talk about starting over again at the next meal. I didn't gain any weight through this process, but I didn't make any progress toward losing the 30 I still need to lose. The worst part was I didn't feel good. I was tired, and my workouts were hard and felt like I was not making any progress.

Then I stumbled across this forum (and subsequently went to the website) and the light bulb went on.

Now back to what I am doing this afternoon, I am adding up how many calories I have left and figuring out what I want to eat that will meet my macros and loving the fact that I can eat so much food... EVERY DAY and not gain weight (not ready to cut yet, still need to find my actual TDEE). And I am looking forward to next week when I add another 100 calories. I have to admit - this is the life! I will deal with that extra 30 lbs once I figure out how much food I really need. I may just add some cardio so I don't have to cut food LOL!

What a total turn around this is for me. After just a week doing this I feel so much better already and food is again my friend instead of my guilt-laden enemy.

kcmsmith0405

Week one check in:
Goal: finding my True TDEE
avg TDEE according to fit bit: 2402
Avg Calories eated: 2316
Weight: 198 ( Up 1 lb since starting, but still going down from the big spike this week when I jumped my calories up by like 3-400 per day.)

I actually ate more calories than I realized - I was shooting for 2150. I'm thinking it may be ok to bump up another 100 (though fitbit and myfitnesspal give me "over budget" warnings even at 2300 hehe). Going to stay at 2300 for at least a few more days. If my weight continues to drop I will go up on Monday - the goal is to find my actual TDEE not cut. Trendweight says I am still eating too much, but each day the amount too much it says I am eating goes down a little, so pretty sure it was just the jump from ripping off the bandaid. I think that will be more useful as a tool once I have a few months of this under my belt.

How I feel: Sleepy tired today but I had 2 nights (tues and wed) with not enough sleep this week so that is expected, got 8 hours last night but my body wanted more. Physically, workouts are much easier, I have a lot more stamina and I still have energy after my workout, and I do not have the desire to eat my entire fridge after my workouts. Sugar/Simple Carbs give me a huge crash as I discovered yesterday when I overdid the carbs in the am, so need to be more careful to avoid those.

I keep reading these forums and the EM2WL.com stories and testimonies for inspiration - and after reading all the many stories of people who cut too soon and had to start over, it keeps me from freaking when the scale bounces around. Not to mention my clothes and the mirror tell me nothing has really changed other than a bit more muscle in my upper body (extra push-ups this week hehe). My arm flab is going away!