What am I doing wrong?
Options
Replies
-
tcunbeliever wrote: »the scale is not the only metric for fat loss, take measurements and photos and body fat % if possible - a bigger picture can help when the scale is being a giant pita
The tape measure can be some encouragement when the scales are being difficult. I measured today and I have lost a half inch on my neck and another inch on my waist. I had to get a link taken out of my watchband last week. I knew my clothes were looser, but hard numbers (and progress elsewhere) give you something to gladden the heart when the scales won't.
Good point. I didn't take measurements when I started. Maybe I'll do it now so I can have a benchmark.0 -
I would consume more protein than fat.
1 -
4031isaiah wrote: »4031isaiah wrote: »auntstephie321 wrote: »have you also started working out or increased your activity at all?
No. I have tried many times to change my eating habits and start working out at the same time and often get to two too intertwined so that if I mess up on my eating I think, why bother working out? And vice versa. This time, I don't want my weight loss to be determined by my exercise. I want to get it together in the kitchen first and lose a few pounds that way and then introduce working out for toning and muscle building.
Once I know I've got my head in the food game, then I'll turn my attention toward exercise. First things first.
I want this to be a long term life change.
It was asked because starting a new exercise regime causes water retention and scale weight gain. Just a possible answer to your question.
Thanks! I understood why it was asked. I was just giving a detailed answer as to why I've chosen not to exercise this time around.
Yeah I thought maybe if you had that you might be retaining water, which you may be anyway and that's why the scale is acting funny.
I totally understand wanting to get the food thing down before getting overwhelmed with the rest of it. I did the same but got to a point I couldn't lose any more without adding exercise so I started with walking daily and have progressed from there. Don't stress too much about the number on the scale right now, it's gonna be all over the place and your body likely has a lot of healing to do so let it work through that. If you are doing everything on plan and accurately logging you will lose fat even if the number on the scale isn't reflecting that.
Definitely take pictures, measurements to if you like. I suck at taking measurements actually do photos have been most helpful for me to see the changes.0 -
derby_groupie wrote: »I would consume more protein than fat.
Interesting. I've always heard the opposite. Do you mind if I ask what the rationale is for upping protein? By how much?
1 -
4031isaiah wrote: »derby_groupie wrote: »I would consume more protein than fat.
Interesting. I've always heard the opposite. Do you mind if I ask what the rationale is for upping protein? By how much?
Yes I'm curious too. I recently finished a high protein low fat plan keeping my carbs in the 80g range. It was incredibly difficult and messed up my blood work showing elevated kidney function which I have to go for follow up on, not really thrilled with that. With higher fat all my blood work was perfect and it was much easier to do.0 -
I think the idea is to preserve lean body mass.
One of Chris Masterjohn's recent "lite" videos on YouTube (see recent thread) recommends that folks on LC diets consume a surprising quantity of protein in weight-loss mode...1 -
Fat grams are higher in caloric value than protein is so if fat loss is the goal then you should consume less fat than protein- and yeah, to help maintain lean muscle mass.
1 -
derby_groupie wrote: »Fat grams are higher in caloric value than protein is so if fat loss is the goal then you should consume less fat than protein- and yeah, to help maintain lean muscle mass.
If you're in a caloric deficit you will have fat loss regardless of where the calories come from. If you're keeping carbs and fat low you need to consume a large amount of protein which for some would spike their blood sugar just as carbs would.
What macros do you suggest, how much more protein than fat?1 -
Protein will cause your BG (and insulin) to rise, but generally, protein won't spike it as high or as quickly as sugar.
Here's an interesting BG/protein chart from Marty Kendall:
https://optimisingnutrition.com/2015/06/15/the-blood-glucose-glucagon-and-insulin-response-to-protein/
1 -
No. I have tried many times to change my eating habits and start working out at the same time and often get to two too intertwined so that if I mess up on my eating I think, why bother working out? And vice versa. This time, I don't want my weight loss to be determined by my exercise. I want to get it together in the kitchen first and lose a few pounds that way and then introduce working out for toning and muscle building.
Once I know I've got my head in the food game, then I'll turn my attention toward exercise. First things first.
I want this to be a long term life change.
This is my first time where I have worked my diet and exercise at the same time. I had lost weight, joined the gym, slowly reverted back to old habits but kept working out, weight started creeping on, went back to LCHF/Keto, I'm losing again and that is where I am now. My weight loss seems to be moving at the same rate even though I am burning additional calories, with the exercise, so that's a bit frustrating. But the inches seem to be coming off faster, which is possibly due to the workouts.
Like you I need to "exercise" my patience and not rely on that lying liar pants scale!!
2 -
Protein will cause your BG (and insulin) to rise, but generally, protein won't spike it as high or as quickly as sugar.
Here's an interesting BG/protein chart from Marty Kendall:
https://optimisingnutrition.com/2015/06/15/the-blood-glucose-glucagon-and-insulin-response-to-protein/
But any excess calories will also create an insulin rise. And when adding extra fat beyond the already high fat foods, it's super easy to eat too much in general.
Cutting back on protein and increasing fat also cuts back on nutrient density and you get less food in general for the same calories assuming you're counting them and eating at a deficit.
Nutrients matter.4 -
auntstephie321 wrote: »4031isaiah wrote: »derby_groupie wrote: »I would consume more protein than fat.
Interesting. I've always heard the opposite. Do you mind if I ask what the rationale is for upping protein? By how much?
Yes I'm curious too. I recently finished a high protein low fat plan keeping my carbs in the 80g range. It was incredibly difficult and messed up my blood work showing elevated kidney function which I have to go for follow up on, not really thrilled with that. With higher fat all my blood work was perfect and it was much easier to do.
Not adding extra fat to already high fat foods doesn't necessarily mean high protein.0 -
My opinion it is water being held by the body (if the calories and macros are as you documented), keep at it and the body will release it. I have gone 3-4 weeks with no weight movement and then in one week a 4-5 pound drop. this has happened several times, so I do not get excited over no movement on the scale anymore. Watch calories in vs calories out. No matter what diet or WOE you are doing, you cant go lower consuming more calories than your burning.0
-
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »auntstephie321 wrote: »4031isaiah wrote: »derby_groupie wrote: »I would consume more protein than fat.
Interesting. I've always heard the opposite. Do you mind if I ask what the rationale is for upping protein? By how much?
Yes I'm curious too. I recently finished a high protein low fat plan keeping my carbs in the 80g range. It was incredibly difficult and messed up my blood work showing elevated kidney function which I have to go for follow up on, not really thrilled with that. With higher fat all my blood work was perfect and it was much easier to do.
Not adding extra fat to already high fat foods doesn't necessarily mean high protein.
The person said higher protein than fat I asked for clarification on what macros but that info wasnt given. It was a blanket statement that could be taken to mean different things that could lead to difficulties for some. Which is why I asked for more info.0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Protein will cause your BG (and insulin) to rise, but generally, protein won't spike it as high or as quickly as sugar.
Here's an interesting BG/protein chart from Marty Kendall:
https://optimisingnutrition.com/2015/06/15/the-blood-glucose-glucagon-and-insulin-response-to-protein/
But any excess calories will also create an insulin rise. And when adding extra fat beyond the already high fat foods, it's super easy to eat too much in general.
Cutting back on protein and increasing fat also cuts back on nutrient density and you get less food in general for the same calories assuming you're counting them and eating at a deficit.
Nutrients matter.
I'm confused. The BG and insulin charts Marty Kendall posted (link above) seem to suggest it's the specific food rather than its relation to your caloric intake that determines the response.
But it would seem to make good sense that your body's state of need would be a factor in how you handle the a given meal.....
0 -
derby_groupie wrote: »Fat grams are higher in caloric value than protein is so if fat loss is the goal then you should consume less fat than protein- and yeah, to help maintain lean muscle mass.
The protein to fat ratio isn't really going to matter as long as you're consuming fewer calories than you burn (which yes, still matters), especially since if you're tracking calories, you're going to be holding that number steady, anyway, and every gram of fat consumption dropped would be met with about 2 grams of protein gained.
Provided you're getting enough protein to prevent lean mass loss while losing weight, the only real effect that changing the ratios will have has to do with how you as an individual handle cravings and hunger, since some people do better with more fat, while others do better with more protein.2 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Protein will cause your BG (and insulin) to rise, but generally, protein won't spike it as high or as quickly as sugar.
Here's an interesting BG/protein chart from Marty Kendall:
https://optimisingnutrition.com/2015/06/15/the-blood-glucose-glucagon-and-insulin-response-to-protein/
But any excess calories will also create an insulin rise. And when adding extra fat beyond the already high fat foods, it's super easy to eat too much in general.
Cutting back on protein and increasing fat also cuts back on nutrient density and you get less food in general for the same calories assuming you're counting them and eating at a deficit.
Nutrients matter.
I'm confused. The BG and insulin charts Marty Kendall posted (link above) seem to suggest it's the specific food rather than its relation to your caloric intake that determines the response.
But it would seem to make good sense that your body's state of need would be a factor in how you handle the a given meal.....
My guess is that Marty Kendall's chart is in relation to a caloric neutral environment. As Dr Bernstein has said, the stretching of the stomach can cause an insulin response even if it was pebbles. In that sense, I could see how overeating could also ramp up the insulin response.3 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Protein will cause your BG (and insulin) to rise, but generally, protein won't spike it as high or as quickly as sugar.
Here's an interesting BG/protein chart from Marty Kendall:
https://optimisingnutrition.com/2015/06/15/the-blood-glucose-glucagon-and-insulin-response-to-protein/
But any excess calories will also create an insulin rise. And when adding extra fat beyond the already high fat foods, it's super easy to eat too much in general.
Cutting back on protein and increasing fat also cuts back on nutrient density and you get less food in general for the same calories assuming you're counting them and eating at a deficit.
Nutrients matter.
I'm confused. The BG and insulin charts Marty Kendall posted (link above) seem to suggest it's the specific food rather than its relation to your caloric intake that determines the response.
But it would seem to make good sense that your body's state of need would be a factor in how you handle the a given meal.....
Check out this also by Marty Kendall
It doesn't seem to obviously address what we're talking about here but keep reading. He is at first discussing exogenous ketones by way of ketone esters, but later on describes exogenous ketones also deriving from high intake of dietary fat.
"when we drive our total energy high with excess energy (be it from processed carbs, Bulletproof Coffee, or exogenous ketones) the body releases insulin to bring the energy out of our blood stream and back into our liver.
People with the highest levels of metabolic health tend to walk around with a lower total energy in their bloodstream. It seems you don’t need to buffer lots of energy in the blood if you can easily mobilise body fat and glycogen stores quickly when required. Further, having high levels of energy sitting around in the blood stream is far from ideal and leads to glycation in the case of high blood glucose levels and oxidation in the case of free fatty acids."
https://optimisingnutrition.com/2017/04/30/are-ketones-insulinogenic-and-does-it-matter/
My take on this is that high TOTAL ENERGY regardless of source raises insulin due to the fact it simply provides more energy than needed. So adding fat to already high fat meals is risky for creating an energy surplus that would require insulin. Even if it's a zero protein, zero carb, 600+ calorie coffee.
Raising insulin in itself isn't necessarily bad though in the case of protein, it's required to uptake amino acids into the cells. To put the protein to work doing what protein does. Repair or build lean tissue and bone.
To raise insulin for the sole purpose of storing excess calories from too much total energy intake isn't even a comparable argument IMO.
2 -
Wow! I have to admit that some of this convo was over my head and a bit beyond my understanding for where I am in my keto journey at this point but what I did get from it is that it doesn't sound like I'm doing anything wrong. I think I will leave my macros as they are, keep doing what I'm doing and wait for the "whoosh" that will hopefully happen when my body settles and let's go of whatever it is retaining.
Thanks everyone for your great responses.
Christie.2 -
4031isaiah wrote: »Wow! I have to admit that some of this convo was over my head and a bit beyond my understanding for where I am in my keto journey at this point but what I did get from it is that it doesn't sound like I'm doing anything wrong. I think I will leave my macros as they are, keep doing what I'm doing and wait for the "whoosh" that will hopefully happen when my body settles and let's go of whatever it is retaining.
Thanks everyone for your great responses.
Christie.
I'm sorry for derailing your perfectly straightforward question.
(I might be inclined to boost the protein a little.)1
