LCHF for cancer? Or other helpful diets?
nvmomketo
Posts: 12,019 Member
My MIL has just been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, and a very close family friend, who my kids call Grandma, has recently been diagnosed with lung cancer (inoperable due to an enlarged heart). Both of these lovely women do not have a good prognosis nor do they have many treatment options. I am looking into diets and alternative treatments (like helpful supplements) that might help them in their fights with cancer, and I would appreciate reading any thoughts or knowledge you all have whether it is LCHF or not.
To further complicate things, my MIL is a vegetarian. Or rather, her significant other is vegetarian, and he does most of the cooking, so she is a vegetarian 95% of the time as a result. She has also had some gall bladder issues this past year... but now I wonder if it was actually related to pancreatic cancer.
For her, I wonder if Gerson therapy might be helpful. I don't know if pancreatic cancer is metabolically dependent on sugar or not. I don't know if lower carb and Warburg's theories would help.
Our friend with lung cancer has a weak heart and also has T2D. I think low carb would help her but I don't know if she would change her diet that much.
Any ideas and thoughts or rabbit holes to dive down would be most welcomed. Both women are open to ideas.
I hope you all don't mind this posting. It isn't exactly a low carb topic but you all are such a supportive and educated bunch that I thought I'd ask. Thanks.
To further complicate things, my MIL is a vegetarian. Or rather, her significant other is vegetarian, and he does most of the cooking, so she is a vegetarian 95% of the time as a result. She has also had some gall bladder issues this past year... but now I wonder if it was actually related to pancreatic cancer.
For her, I wonder if Gerson therapy might be helpful. I don't know if pancreatic cancer is metabolically dependent on sugar or not. I don't know if lower carb and Warburg's theories would help.
Our friend with lung cancer has a weak heart and also has T2D. I think low carb would help her but I don't know if she would change her diet that much.
Any ideas and thoughts or rabbit holes to dive down would be most welcomed. Both women are open to ideas.
I hope you all don't mind this posting. It isn't exactly a low carb topic but you all are such a supportive and educated bunch that I thought I'd ask. Thanks.
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4762423/#!po=24.4548
It's a long *kitten* read, but basically, no. It probably won't hurt, but the tumor's environment is more than capable of metabolic adaptation that allows it to fuel tumor growth via glutamine conversion if glucose intake proves insufficient.
ETA: upon further reading, the damned things can also use autophagy to essentially rebuild itself even if the person were to be completely starved. Diet ain't gonna help.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4762423/#!po=24.4548
It's a long *kitten* read, but basically, no. It probably won't hurt, but the tumor's environment is more than capable of metabolic adaptation that allows it to fuel tumor growth via glutamine conversion if glucose intake proves insufficient.
ETA: upon further reading, the damned things can also use autophagy to essentially rebuild itself even if the person were to be completely starved. Diet ain't gonna help.
Thanks. I'll read this.
Pancreatic cancer is a bear. I have my doubts about low carb/glucose and the warburg effect helping because those with pancreatic cancer tend to waste away. They get too thin. And that doesn't help people... Sigh
I think all we can really hope for is not to beat cancer but to extend life with some quality living. Cancer is a *kitten*.3 -
My MIL has just been diagnosed with pancreatic cancer, and a very close family friend, who my kids call Grandma, has recently been diagnosed with lung cancer (inoperable due to an enlarged heart). Both of these lovely women do not have a good prognosis nor do they have many treatment options. I am looking into diets and alternative treatments (like helpful supplements) that might help them in their fights with cancer, and I would appreciate reading any thoughts or knowledge you all have whether it is LCHF or not.
To further complicate things, my MIL is a vegetarian. Or rather, her significant other is vegetarian, and he does most of the cooking, so she is a vegetarian 95% of the time as a result. She has also had some gall bladder issues this past year... but now I wonder if it was actually related to pancreatic cancer.
For her, I wonder if Gerson therapy might be helpful. I don't know if pancreatic cancer is metabolically dependent on sugar or not. I don't know if lower carb and Warburg's theories would help.
Our friend with lung cancer has a weak heart and also has T2D. I think low carb would help her but I don't know if she would change her diet that much.
Any ideas and thoughts or rabbit holes to dive down would be most welcomed. Both women are open to ideas.
I hope you all don't mind this posting. It isn't exactly a low carb topic but you all are such a supportive and educated bunch that I thought I'd ask. Thanks.
I'm so very sorry for the terrible news.
P&PTs for you all.2 -
@nvmomketo ... am so sorry to hear this
I am on my phone and it doesn't like to post links but try some google fu with Univeristy of Florida. I work there in research and there is a lot being looked into food wise. Keto I know is one thats studied with tumors and there may be more I am not aware of. I hope you can find something there that will help.
Your family will be in my thoughts.0 -
@baconslave and @Catawampous Thank you so much.
This stuff is hard to find info on. It is largely n=1 and statements of "this could help...". Nothing definitive. Nothing even close to a "probably helps". Boo.0 -
Consuming a Ketogenic Diet while Receiving Radiation and Chemotherapy for Locally Advanced Lung Cancer and Pancreatic Cancer: The University of Iowa Experience of Two Phase 1 Clinical Trials.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28437190
They need to be careful if they choose to eat this way as a ketogenic diet increases radiation sensitivity.
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4215472/Moreover, a ketogenic diet inhibits tumor growth in xenograft models, and potentially in human patients (Allen et al., 2014). It is tempting to speculate that these interventions, which would both be predicted to elevate histone Kbhb levels, may work in part by altering chromatin structure to induce a more tumor suppressive gene expression pattern.0 -
More info that just came into my inbox the other day:
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/obesity-cancer-cancer-1/
https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/hyperinsulinemia-cancer-cancer-2/
https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3941741/
Cancer as a metabolic disease: implications for novel therapeutics
Thomas N. Seyfried,* Roberto E. Flores, Angela M. Poff, 1 and Dominic P. D’Agostino 10 -
I'm so sorry your family is dealing with this. I lost my mum and my auntie to pancreatic cancer. Cherish the time you have left together, it will make for special memories later. Hugs ♡♡3
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I am so so sorry for the terrible news.0
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@canadjineh Thanks for the links. I'll read those today.
@River_Godess and @Cadori Thanks. I really feel bad for my husband. He is close to his mom and probably even closer to the family friend. Plus he knows pancreatic cancer too-my dad had it- so he knows it is not good. 0 -
I'm so sorry about your MIL and the family friend. Prayers! I don't have much helpful to contribute, just wanted you to know I'm thinking of you!0
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I'm so sorry to hear this terrible news.
I apparently haven't been saving things about cancer that I've read. I do have this one link.
I'm not completely sure what all is discussed on it.
I hope it leads to helpful info.
http://www.theimproper.com/135662/ketogenic-diet-beats-chemotherapy-many-cancers-says-thomas-seyfried/0 -
Sending you and your family/family friend lots of love and light!0
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Thanks again everyone. You all are a great group.
Thanks for that link @Sunny_Bunny_ It is a nice easy to read article that could motivate someone to consider trying dietary changes.1 -
sorry to read that.
you might take a look into that book: https://www.amazon.com/Sodium-Bicarbonate-Natures-Unique-Remedy/dp/075700394X
"Most of us were amazed to find out that there is an oncologist in Rome, Dr. Tullio Simoncini, destroying cancer tumors with sodium bicarbonate. Sodium bicarbonate is safe, extremely inexpensive, and effective when it comes to cancer tissues. It is irresistible cyanide to cancer cells. It hits the cancer cells with a shock wave of alkalinity, which allows much more oxygen into the cancer cells than they can tolerate. Cancer cells cannot survive in the presence of high levels of oxygen. Sodium bicarbonate is a killer of tumors, safer and more effective than anything else. That does not mean that every single patient who uses bicarbonate is going to be saved, but they certainly will be helped. "0 -
I got an email just today with this article from Ruled.me
I only skimmed the beginning. It says it goes over what recent research has been showing.
Maybe something here will be hopeful.
https://www.ruled.me/ketogenic-diet-cancer-interpreting-research/?mc_cid=58dc2fd70d&mc_eid=580c03ec6b1 -
That was a great article thanks for sharing it.1
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I'm so sorry for your MIL and for your family in dealing with this.
As an observer only, I was hopeful that cancer could be starved with keto/fasting but it looks like I have to do my research. Thanks for the links, guys.0 -
I'm so sorry for your MIL and for your family in dealing with this.
As an observer only, I was hopeful that cancer could be starved with keto/fasting but it looks like I have to do my research. Thanks for the links, guys.
Cancer as a whole is such a scourge upon our populace, that it's easy to get swept up by anything that shows even the slightest promise in undoing it's damage. Nearly everyone has been devastated by it in some form, so most of us really want to believe that there's an obvious fix that we just aren't seeing.0 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I got an email just today with this article from Ruled.me
I only skimmed the beginning. It says it goes over what recent research has been showing.
Maybe something here will be hopeful.
https://www.ruled.me/ketogenic-diet-cancer-interpreting-research/?mc_cid=58dc2fd70d&mc_eid=580c03ec6b
Thanks so much. Intersting stuff. Keto really does appear to have brain tumor fighting help!I'm so sorry for your MIL and for your family in dealing with this.
As an observer only, I was hopeful that cancer could be starved with keto/fasting but it looks like I have to do my research. Thanks for the links, guys.
Thank you. 1 -
I am sorry to hear about your MIL and friend. It is good both you and your husband are aware of the prognosis of pancreatic cancer not being positive. In hindsight, I was very appreciative of the LPN who pulled me aside at the hospital and told me the prognosis of my Mom...when the doctors did not. My Mom passed 2 months after diagnosis. Make each day count whether it is 2 months or 2 years.
A search on Randy Pausch can yield you some of the treatments he tried during his 2 years of life after diagnosis. What they were and where they were available.
As a side note, you will come upon his "Last Lecture". While the long version may not be of interest, you can find shorter versions also. Uplifting yet heart wrenching. He sort of became an instant celebrity as a result of his "Last Lecture" at Carnegie Mellon University. The lectures are usually the "last" due to retirement. In Randy's case it was "his last" in regards to both retirement (at a young age) and pancreatic cancer diagnosis.1 -
@kpk54 Yeah... It's helpful to us to know what to expect with pancreatic cancer but I almost wish the information was not so available to her. She is a fairly delicate soul - it must be so hard for her to know what is probably coming, and probably so soon.
I forgot about Pausch. I'll look him up. Two years is better than most get.
Thank you. 0 -
So sorry for both of them, and all of the loved ones who are affected by these cancers!
Prayers for peace that passes understanding!1 -
After studying this subject for the past three years and reviewing/testing many procols for safety from around the globe it seems like Ben was right about an Ounce of prevention is worth a Pound of cure. I see Keto as prevention if not more.3
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So sorry for both of them, and all of the loved ones who are affected by these cancers!
Prayers for peace that passes understanding! Thank you.GaleHawkins wrote: »After studying this subject for the past three years and reviewing/testing many procols for safety from around the globe it seems like Ben was right about an Ounce of prevention is worth a Pound of cure. I see Keto as prevention if not more.
That's my hope for my kids. Hopefully it isn't too late for someone like me too. 0 -
I think the video posted featuring Dr. Worm talking about inflammation prevention is key to cancer prevention. Actually I am certain of it. When our mitochondria health suffers than the wall starts to crumble so to speak.0
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No science in this but an interesting story just posted today.
http://foodmed.net/2017/09/04/cancer-pilots-survival-secret-angiogenesis/1 -
Wow. Great story. Our friend with lung cancer might appreciate this one.
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Thanks for the awesome link. Low Carb makes sense on many levels when it comes to preventing/dealing with cancer based on my reading.0
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Well I know way more about pancreas cancer than I ever wanted to know. Hubby was diagnosed in January 2013 . We were able to keep him alive for almost four years using a lot of alternatives and he also did chemo and had the whipple. Message me on some information. The chemo nurses and even his oncologist called him the miracle man because he surpassed his life expectation by a long way.
First it made no difference if he went carb free. The most important thing is to keep as much food in them as possible. Yes it makes all the sense in the world to shun sugars but I believe it is fallacy and keeping his weight up was more import and and helped his body fight off the cancer that did metastasize to his lungs a little over a year before he died. So he still lived at stage four for that length of time. That in itself is amazing. He still weighed 197 two weeks before he died only down from his starting weight of 220. He was 6 foot tall. He many times had to force himself to eat and actually the lower carb foods were harder for him to digest.
Supplements were Bitter Melon, Co Q 10, Enzymes of course because part of his pancreas was removed. HA you would think I would never forget all he was on dishing then up daily for so many years. I will gather the pill bottles and make a better list for you. Oh Petrostillbein or been I forget it will come up in a search.
When he died he had no drugs on board other than his acid blockers and one treatment from a neutralizer with some meds to help his breathing. He died 1 1/2 hour later. His passing was peaceful with just him and I here at the house he was in his recliner and we had been talking right up to the very end. He could still get up and walk to the bathroom but his breathing was going down hill fast. He was either suffering a blood clot in his lungs that was growing or the tumor just got to the point it cut off his airway. He had gone on hospice 4 days before he died. I miss him terribly but I am glad it all was peaceful for both of us in the end and know we both did everything we could to keep him alive. At diagnosis he was stage 3 B inoperable. 6 months of chemo allowed the tumor to shrink away from the SMV so the surgeon could remove the tumor. He was NED then for two more years but it took him a year to recover from the surgery and a lot of hard work for him.
Message me I could write a book here and I doubt others want to read so much. Too much already. Oh and he was 72 when diagnosed and 76 when he died.6
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