General Discussion
Replies
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My latest question is about my drastic shift in activity. As you may know I am against drastic changes but it seems to have happened anyway. I am worried that I will want to revert at some point because this is abnormal behavior for me. On the other hand I also wonder if I am not just catching up to where I should have been. My pre-surgery self was being held back quite a bit and some of that was likely my lack of resolve to increase my activity in other ways. I was pushing myself some but I was only lightly active and that was after losing over 200 pounds. Now I seem to have jumped over moderately active and I am fully active.
As long as I keep an eye on my behavior and adjust my eating back down if my level slips back down I am okay I guess. I do not want to get "spoiled" with my present calorie level though. I am trying to add some of the calories in ways I can subtract them easily if needed like increasing the amount of cheese and oil.
I think that like "normal weight" is a range, so is activity. There are times when I feel like being up and doing, and times when my metabolism might be 95% slug. I'll never be a high-NEAT, hummingbird type person, and if I sit for too long I get antsy and twitchy, so the extreme ends of the spectrum are not in my range, but my own "normal" falls somewhere between the two. I swing between them, and don't spend too much time at each end.
I am completely fascinated with NEAT improvement. However, my post above was really talking about my intentional exercise. My requirement is 30 minutes a day, my desired is 60 minutes a day but I am routinely hitting 80 and above. Some of that is borderline NEAT because I am walking the dog and when I do I try to keep the pace that I do when I am out walking for exercise.
I am wondering if I will actually want to continue at this pace or if it will settle down some. Except for the morning time spent on the elliptical I am enjoying the rest.0 -
@novusdies I find it varies for me and is very dependant on the weather. When it's nice I want to get out and walk in addition to any other exercise, when it's not I want to sit and coach potato. I think over time you'll see where your activity settles decides to balance out at, just be sure to watch that if you start to slide in activity that you lower your calorie intake. One thing that has worked for me has been to reset myself to sedentary from lightly active and base eating more off my weight loss trend and activity level. It's not always perfect, but it's what I got at the moment.2
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@ConfidentRaven
I keep a watchful eye on myself and my spreadsheet will tell me when my rate of loss begins to lower if I do not catch it before.
I kind of feel like a kid on Christmas morning all the time lately. I am so excited to be finally able to move I just want to keep doing it. I cannot believe how much better my life is now that the surgery has removed my impediment. I was losing weight for all that time but I wasn't able to fully appreciate it. I went to sleep for 4 hours and woke up an entirely different man.
My concern is that Christmas fades but I think as long as I am aware of it I should be okay. Plus I have all of you to keep reminding me to keep my eye on it.4 -
well, they killed me this morning - the office had their 2020 Safety Kick off, and catered breakfast in from Bob Evans. I stayed away from the gravy, only had 1 slice of bacon and 2 sausage links, but filled up on scrambled eggs and fruit and couldn't resist having 2 biscuits (though at least I stopped at 2). The eggs and the fruit also got me in the calorie count department. The only way I could salvage the day is to not eat anything else the rest of the day, and I know myself well enough to know that ain't happening, so I'm just going to have to resign myself to being over limit today but make sure I stay under maintenance.
Tomorrow is scale day and it's not going to be pretty. With 5 out of 7 days over limit and 1 over maintenance, I wasn't going to show any loss for this week anyway, and then with TOM on its way, I'm already bracing myself for a 3 or 4 lb gain to show tomorrow, though I can console myself with knowing that its going to be mostly water. My weight loss has been ratcheting anyway, so I'm down one week, then back up the next, down a little more after that, then back up, etc, so this was the up ratchet week anyway. But I did at least get back in control Monday and Tuesday and stayed under limit, and tomorrow is always a new day, right?1 -
I am completely fascinated with NEAT improvement. However, my post above was really talking about my intentional exercise. My requirement is 30 minutes a day, my desired is 60 minutes a day but I am routinely hitting 80 and above. Some of that is borderline NEAT because I am walking the dog and when I do I try to keep the pace that I do when I am out walking for exercise.
I am wondering if I will actually want to continue at this pace or if it will settle down some. Except for the morning time spent on the elliptical I am enjoying the rest.
I don't spend time in the performance threads, but this above caught my eye. I looked around for a concise definition of what NEAT is, and found this:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12468415Non-exercise activity thermogenesis (NEAT) is the energy expended for everything we do that is not sleeping, eating or sports-like exercise. It ranges from the energy expended walking to work, typing, performing yard work, undertaking agricultural tasks and fidgeting. Even trivial physical activities increase metabolic rate substantially and it is the cumulative impact of a multitude of exothermic actions that culminate in an individual's daily NEAT. It is, therefore, not surprising that NEAT explains a vast majority of an individual's non-resting energy needs. Epidemiological studies highlight the importance of culture in promoting and quashing NEAT. Agricultural and manual workers have high NEAT, whereas wealth and industrialization appear to decrease NEAT. Physiological studies demonstrate, intriguingly, that NEAT is modulated with changes in energy balance; NEAT increases with overfeeding and decreases with underfeeding. Thus, NEAT could be a critical component in how we maintain our body weight and/or develop obesity or lose weight. The mechanism that regulates NEAT is unknown. However, hypothalamic factors have been identified that specifically and directly increase NEAT in animals. By understanding how NEAT is regulated we may come to appreciate that spontaneous physical activity is not spontaneous at all but carefully programmed.
So to make sure I understand this right: BMR is the sleeping & eating portion of our energy needs, or the basic needs for our function of just being alive. NEAT covers all the rest except for extreme exercise?
If basic movement, yard work, housework, fidgeting at my desk, all increase NEAT, how much are we really expecting in change, knowing that metabolism isn't something that can change a whole lot either way (in other words, you can't "break" your metabolism unless you're dead), and does it elevate that NEAT for a short time only, or can we encourage our bodies to keep it boosted longer?
I hadn't really come across much on this as the few threads I had seen it mentioned in were for folks that were lifting and toning their bodies and were regularly exercising.
I'm interested because I detest regular exercise and much prefer to get my activity in via housework and yardwork. But I also know that those kind of activities aren't continuous, meaning that I'm working at walking the house pushigng my vacuum cleaner, but its not at a constant pace like one gets when walking a treadmill.
It would be a relief to know that I'm not just trying to psyche myself out on the contribution that yardwork and housework has to activity - that it really is beneficial (other than having a clean house and a decent looking yard lol)1 -
I am only slightly “ active “ but as I am losing weight, I am moving around more and doing more...I don’t really think about it, it is just easier to move and walk...getting out of the car and off of the couch was a struggle...even cooking or unloading the dishwasher, I would have to stop and sit down or take a break to rest...I still have a lot of weight to lose but at least I can feel the difference my weight loss has made physically...mentally feeling different is still a work in progress!2
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bmeadows380 wrote: »I am completely fascinated with NEAT improvement. However, my post above was really talking about my intentional exercise. My requirement is 30 minutes a day, my desired is 60 minutes a day but I am routinely hitting 80 and above. Some of that is borderline NEAT because I am walking the dog and when I do I try to keep the pace that I do when I am out walking for exercise.
I am wondering if I will actually want to continue at this pace or if it will settle down some. Except for the morning time spent on the elliptical I am enjoying the rest.
I don't spend time in the performance threads, but this above caught my eye. I looked around for a concise definition of what NEAT is, and found this:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12468415Non-exercise activity thermogenesis (NEAT) is the energy expended for everything we do that is not sleeping, eating or sports-like exercise. It ranges from the energy expended walking to work, typing, performing yard work, undertaking agricultural tasks and fidgeting. Even trivial physical activities increase metabolic rate substantially and it is the cumulative impact of a multitude of exothermic actions that culminate in an individual's daily NEAT. It is, therefore, not surprising that NEAT explains a vast majority of an individual's non-resting energy needs. Epidemiological studies highlight the importance of culture in promoting and quashing NEAT. Agricultural and manual workers have high NEAT, whereas wealth and industrialization appear to decrease NEAT. Physiological studies demonstrate, intriguingly, that NEAT is modulated with changes in energy balance; NEAT increases with overfeeding and decreases with underfeeding. Thus, NEAT could be a critical component in how we maintain our body weight and/or develop obesity or lose weight. The mechanism that regulates NEAT is unknown. However, hypothalamic factors have been identified that specifically and directly increase NEAT in animals. By understanding how NEAT is regulated we may come to appreciate that spontaneous physical activity is not spontaneous at all but carefully programmed.
So to make sure I understand this right: BMR is the sleeping & eating portion of our energy needs, or the basic needs for our function of just being alive. NEAT covers all the rest except for extreme exercise?
If basic movement, yard work, housework, fidgeting at my desk, all increase NEAT, how much are we really expecting in change, knowing that metabolism isn't something that can change a whole lot either way (in other words, you can't "break" your metabolism unless you're dead), and does it elevate that NEAT for a short time only, or can we encourage our bodies to keep it boosted longer?
I hadn't really come across much on this as the few threads I had seen it mentioned in were for folks that were lifting and toning their bodies and were regularly exercising.
I'm interested because I detest regular exercise and much prefer to get my activity in via housework and yardwork. But I also know that those kind of activities aren't continuous, meaning that I'm working at walking the house pushigng my vacuum cleaner, but its not at a constant pace like one gets when walking a treadmill.
It would be a relief to know that I'm not just trying to psyche myself out on the contribution that yardwork and housework has to activity - that it really is beneficial (other than having a clean house and a decent looking yard lol)
Right. BMR is calories to keep you alive, preserve your present form, and digest food. NEAT is all movement that is not intentional exercise from something as small as a smile to something as big as yard work.
You do not need a constant pace to get the benefit of walking. It would be more likely that combining any activity with walking like raking leaves/vacuuming will be of a higher benefit than just walking on a treadmill.
The benefit of intentional exercise is the structure. If you are doing it for cardio you are working to get your heart rate to a certain level. If you are doing strength training you are working on muscle groups and trying to use good techniques.
The body doesn't distinguish the type of activity. It just fuels it and tries to tune itself to do it more efficiently so it will use less energy.
NEAT deserves its own thread but in the meantime here is a good thread to read even though a few of the suggestions are clearly just mini exercise workouts:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10610953/neat-improvement-strategies-to-improve-weight-loss/p1
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bmeadows380 wrote: »I am completely fascinated with NEAT improvement. However, my post above was really talking about my intentional exercise. My requirement is 30 minutes a day, my desired is 60 minutes a day but I am routinely hitting 80 and above. Some of that is borderline NEAT because I am walking the dog and when I do I try to keep the pace that I do when I am out walking for exercise.
I am wondering if I will actually want to continue at this pace or if it will settle down some. Except for the morning time spent on the elliptical I am enjoying the rest.
I don't spend time in the performance threads, but this above caught my eye. I looked around for a concise definition of what NEAT is, and found this:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12468415Non-exercise activity thermogenesis (NEAT) is the energy expended for everything we do that is not sleeping, eating or sports-like exercise. It ranges from the energy expended walking to work, typing, performing yard work, undertaking agricultural tasks and fidgeting. Even trivial physical activities increase metabolic rate substantially and it is the cumulative impact of a multitude of exothermic actions that culminate in an individual's daily NEAT. It is, therefore, not surprising that NEAT explains a vast majority of an individual's non-resting energy needs. Epidemiological studies highlight the importance of culture in promoting and quashing NEAT. Agricultural and manual workers have high NEAT, whereas wealth and industrialization appear to decrease NEAT. Physiological studies demonstrate, intriguingly, that NEAT is modulated with changes in energy balance; NEAT increases with overfeeding and decreases with underfeeding. Thus, NEAT could be a critical component in how we maintain our body weight and/or develop obesity or lose weight. The mechanism that regulates NEAT is unknown. However, hypothalamic factors have been identified that specifically and directly increase NEAT in animals. By understanding how NEAT is regulated we may come to appreciate that spontaneous physical activity is not spontaneous at all but carefully programmed.
So to make sure I understand this right: BMR is the sleeping & eating portion of our energy needs, or the basic needs for our function of just being alive. NEAT covers all the rest except for extreme exercise?
If basic movement, yard work, housework, fidgeting at my desk, all increase NEAT, how much are we really expecting in change, knowing that metabolism isn't something that can change a whole lot either way (in other words, you can't "break" your metabolism unless you're dead), and does it elevate that NEAT for a short time only, or can we encourage our bodies to keep it boosted longer?
I hadn't really come across much on this as the few threads I had seen it mentioned in were for folks that were lifting and toning their bodies and were regularly exercising.
I'm interested because I detest regular exercise and much prefer to get my activity in via housework and yardwork. But I also know that those kind of activities aren't continuous, meaning that I'm working at walking the house pushigng my vacuum cleaner, but its not at a constant pace like one gets when walking a treadmill.
It would be a relief to know that I'm not just trying to psyche myself out on the contribution that yardwork and housework has to activity - that it really is beneficial (other than having a clean house and a decent looking yard lol)
Right. BMR is calories to keep you alive, preserve your present form, and digest food. NEAT is all movement that is not intentional exercise from something as small as a smile to something as big as yard work.
You do not need a constant pace to get the benefit of walking. It would be more likely that combining any activity with walking like raking leaves/vacuuming will be of a higher benefit than just walking on a treadmill.
The benefit of intentional exercise is the structure. If you are doing it for cardio you are working to get your heart rate to a certain level. If you are doing strength training you are working on muscle groups and trying to use good techniques.
The body doesn't distinguish the type of activity. It just fuels it and tries to tune itself to do it more efficiently so it will use less energy.
NEAT deserves its own thread but in the meantime here is a good thread to read even though a few of the suggestions are clearly just mini exercise workouts:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10610953/neat-improvement-strategies-to-improve-weight-loss/p1bmeadows380 wrote: »I am completely fascinated with NEAT improvement. However, my post above was really talking about my intentional exercise. My requirement is 30 minutes a day, my desired is 60 minutes a day but I am routinely hitting 80 and above. Some of that is borderline NEAT because I am walking the dog and when I do I try to keep the pace that I do when I am out walking for exercise.
I am wondering if I will actually want to continue at this pace or if it will settle down some. Except for the morning time spent on the elliptical I am enjoying the rest.
I don't spend time in the performance threads, but this above caught my eye. I looked around for a concise definition of what NEAT is, and found this:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12468415Non-exercise activity thermogenesis (NEAT) is the energy expended for everything we do that is not sleeping, eating or sports-like exercise. It ranges from the energy expended walking to work, typing, performing yard work, undertaking agricultural tasks and fidgeting. Even trivial physical activities increase metabolic rate substantially and it is the cumulative impact of a multitude of exothermic actions that culminate in an individual's daily NEAT. It is, therefore, not surprising that NEAT explains a vast majority of an individual's non-resting energy needs. Epidemiological studies highlight the importance of culture in promoting and quashing NEAT. Agricultural and manual workers have high NEAT, whereas wealth and industrialization appear to decrease NEAT. Physiological studies demonstrate, intriguingly, that NEAT is modulated with changes in energy balance; NEAT increases with overfeeding and decreases with underfeeding. Thus, NEAT could be a critical component in how we maintain our body weight and/or develop obesity or lose weight. The mechanism that regulates NEAT is unknown. However, hypothalamic factors have been identified that specifically and directly increase NEAT in animals. By understanding how NEAT is regulated we may come to appreciate that spontaneous physical activity is not spontaneous at all but carefully programmed.
So to make sure I understand this right: BMR is the sleeping & eating portion of our energy needs, or the basic needs for our function of just being alive. NEAT covers all the rest except for extreme exercise?
If basic movement, yard work, housework, fidgeting at my desk, all increase NEAT, how much are we really expecting in change, knowing that metabolism isn't something that can change a whole lot either way (in other words, you can't "break" your metabolism unless you're dead), and does it elevate that NEAT for a short time only, or can we encourage our bodies to keep it boosted longer?
I hadn't really come across much on this as the few threads I had seen it mentioned in were for folks that were lifting and toning their bodies and were regularly exercising.
I'm interested because I detest regular exercise and much prefer to get my activity in via housework and yardwork. But I also know that those kind of activities aren't continuous, meaning that I'm working at walking the house pushigng my vacuum cleaner, but its not at a constant pace like one gets when walking a treadmill.
It would be a relief to know that I'm not just trying to psyche myself out on the contribution that yardwork and housework has to activity - that it really is beneficial (other than having a clean house and a decent looking yard lol)
Right. BMR is calories to keep you alive, preserve your present form, and digest food. NEAT is all movement that is not intentional exercise from something as small as a smile to something as big as yard work.
You do not need a constant pace to get the benefit of walking. It would be more likely that combining any activity with walking like raking leaves/vacuuming will be of a higher benefit than just walking on a treadmill.
The benefit of intentional exercise is the structure. If you are doing it for cardio you are working to get your heart rate to a certain level. If you are doing strength training you are working on muscle groups and trying to use good techniques.
The body doesn't distinguish the type of activity. It just fuels it and tries to tune itself to do it more efficiently so it will use less energy.
NEAT deserves its own thread but in the meantime here is a good thread to read even though a few of the suggestions are clearly just mini exercise workouts:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10610953/neat-improvement-strategies-to-improve-weight-loss/p1
This is very helpful. And I have really struggled with much of this. When I first started really trying to lose weight in 2018. It was so confusing.
I knew what my BMR was as I was receiving it at the time from a Dr. I saw on a monthly basis. And on the main threads would see how MFP went by the N.E.A.T. method. My Dr. to get me moving more, was encouraging me to park farther away when shopping, consider taking the stairs. I still remember the conversation about it is ok to take stairs for only one flight until you can take for more. I was truly embarrassed to consider taking only flight and then looking for elevator.
Walking 50 to 75 feet I was huffing and puffing.
Also on main threads there was how should I say this many not so nice statements made by some people, making fun of people who would count housecleaning as exercise and so on. I really had to work on not taking that as a personal issue.
Now what I really use for my exercise is the fact I do cardio 6 days a week for 45 to 60 minutes. It is intentional on my recubment cross trainer. Not a fan of strength training and still having arm/shoulder issues so that is on hold. And understand this is intentional so I record it as exercise. But not grocery shopping, or basic food prep and so on that is just part of daily N.E.A.T.1 -
maureenkhilde wrote: »
This is very helpful. And I have really struggled with much of this. When I first started really trying to lose weight in 2018. It was so confusing.
I knew what my BMR was as I was receiving it at the time from a Dr. I saw on a monthly basis. And on the main threads would see how MFP went by the N.E.A.T. method. My Dr. to get me moving more, was encouraging me to park farther away when shopping, consider taking the stairs. I still remember the conversation about it is ok to take stairs for only one flight until you can take for more. I was truly embarrassed to consider taking only flight and then looking for elevator.
Walking 50 to 75 feet I was huffing and puffing.
Also on main threads there was how should I say this many not so nice statements made by some people, making fun of people who would count housecleaning as exercise and so on. I really had to work on not taking that as a personal issue.
Now what I really use for my exercise is the fact I do cardio 6 days a week for 45 to 60 minutes. It is intentional on my recubment cross trainer. Not a fan of strength training and still having arm/shoulder issues so that is on hold. And understand this is intentional so I record it as exercise. But not grocery shopping, or basic food prep and so on that is just part of daily N.E.A.T.
My understanding is that it really depends on what you set your activity level to. If you set it to sedentary, then all activity counts, so the grocery shopping (if you are able to push a buggy and walk the store), cleaning house, yard work, etc do need to be accounted for in the exercise section of the dairy.
But if you are moving a lot during the day - have a job that has you up and about a lot, or unloading and carrying boxes throughout the day, and things like that, then you set your activity level to lightly or even moderately active, and those things will be counted in by MFP when it calculates your calorie limit, so if you set your activity level to lightly active, then you would NOT count those things in.
In either case, regular, purposeful exercise would be counted as that's not in the NEAT equation.
At least, that's how I thought it was supposed to be done!
In my case, I'm sitting a lot during the day with my job. There are occasional days where I'm out in the field, but most days I'm at a computer. So I have my level set to sedentary. I'm single and live alone, so major house work like mopping is a once a week thing, sometimes longer. So on the days that I do mop or vacuum, I sometimes count those in. In the summer, I riding mow once a week, trim up with a push mower about every other week, and weed whack once a month. I count that activity on the days I do them, but don't set my activity level higher because that's not something I do every day or most days of the week.
I also know that MFP's values for activity are high, so I never count the full time I do these activities, either; I usually count about half.
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maureenkhilde wrote: »bmeadows380 wrote: »I am completely fascinated with NEAT improvement. However, my post above was really talking about my intentional exercise. My requirement is 30 minutes a day, my desired is 60 minutes a day but I am routinely hitting 80 and above. Some of that is borderline NEAT because I am walking the dog and when I do I try to keep the pace that I do when I am out walking for exercise.
I am wondering if I will actually want to continue at this pace or if it will settle down some. Except for the morning time spent on the elliptical I am enjoying the rest.
I don't spend time in the performance threads, but this above caught my eye. I looked around for a concise definition of what NEAT is, and found this:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12468415Non-exercise activity thermogenesis (NEAT) is the energy expended for everything we do that is not sleeping, eating or sports-like exercise. It ranges from the energy expended walking to work, typing, performing yard work, undertaking agricultural tasks and fidgeting. Even trivial physical activities increase metabolic rate substantially and it is the cumulative impact of a multitude of exothermic actions that culminate in an individual's daily NEAT. It is, therefore, not surprising that NEAT explains a vast majority of an individual's non-resting energy needs. Epidemiological studies highlight the importance of culture in promoting and quashing NEAT. Agricultural and manual workers have high NEAT, whereas wealth and industrialization appear to decrease NEAT. Physiological studies demonstrate, intriguingly, that NEAT is modulated with changes in energy balance; NEAT increases with overfeeding and decreases with underfeeding. Thus, NEAT could be a critical component in how we maintain our body weight and/or develop obesity or lose weight. The mechanism that regulates NEAT is unknown. However, hypothalamic factors have been identified that specifically and directly increase NEAT in animals. By understanding how NEAT is regulated we may come to appreciate that spontaneous physical activity is not spontaneous at all but carefully programmed.
So to make sure I understand this right: BMR is the sleeping & eating portion of our energy needs, or the basic needs for our function of just being alive. NEAT covers all the rest except for extreme exercise?
If basic movement, yard work, housework, fidgeting at my desk, all increase NEAT, how much are we really expecting in change, knowing that metabolism isn't something that can change a whole lot either way (in other words, you can't "break" your metabolism unless you're dead), and does it elevate that NEAT for a short time only, or can we encourage our bodies to keep it boosted longer?
I hadn't really come across much on this as the few threads I had seen it mentioned in were for folks that were lifting and toning their bodies and were regularly exercising.
I'm interested because I detest regular exercise and much prefer to get my activity in via housework and yardwork. But I also know that those kind of activities aren't continuous, meaning that I'm working at walking the house pushigng my vacuum cleaner, but its not at a constant pace like one gets when walking a treadmill.
It would be a relief to know that I'm not just trying to psyche myself out on the contribution that yardwork and housework has to activity - that it really is beneficial (other than having a clean house and a decent looking yard lol)
Right. BMR is calories to keep you alive, preserve your present form, and digest food. NEAT is all movement that is not intentional exercise from something as small as a smile to something as big as yard work.
You do not need a constant pace to get the benefit of walking. It would be more likely that combining any activity with walking like raking leaves/vacuuming will be of a higher benefit than just walking on a treadmill.
The benefit of intentional exercise is the structure. If you are doing it for cardio you are working to get your heart rate to a certain level. If you are doing strength training you are working on muscle groups and trying to use good techniques.
The body doesn't distinguish the type of activity. It just fuels it and tries to tune itself to do it more efficiently so it will use less energy.
NEAT deserves its own thread but in the meantime here is a good thread to read even though a few of the suggestions are clearly just mini exercise workouts:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10610953/neat-improvement-strategies-to-improve-weight-loss/p1bmeadows380 wrote: »I am completely fascinated with NEAT improvement. However, my post above was really talking about my intentional exercise. My requirement is 30 minutes a day, my desired is 60 minutes a day but I am routinely hitting 80 and above. Some of that is borderline NEAT because I am walking the dog and when I do I try to keep the pace that I do when I am out walking for exercise.
I am wondering if I will actually want to continue at this pace or if it will settle down some. Except for the morning time spent on the elliptical I am enjoying the rest.
I don't spend time in the performance threads, but this above caught my eye. I looked around for a concise definition of what NEAT is, and found this:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12468415Non-exercise activity thermogenesis (NEAT) is the energy expended for everything we do that is not sleeping, eating or sports-like exercise. It ranges from the energy expended walking to work, typing, performing yard work, undertaking agricultural tasks and fidgeting. Even trivial physical activities increase metabolic rate substantially and it is the cumulative impact of a multitude of exothermic actions that culminate in an individual's daily NEAT. It is, therefore, not surprising that NEAT explains a vast majority of an individual's non-resting energy needs. Epidemiological studies highlight the importance of culture in promoting and quashing NEAT. Agricultural and manual workers have high NEAT, whereas wealth and industrialization appear to decrease NEAT. Physiological studies demonstrate, intriguingly, that NEAT is modulated with changes in energy balance; NEAT increases with overfeeding and decreases with underfeeding. Thus, NEAT could be a critical component in how we maintain our body weight and/or develop obesity or lose weight. The mechanism that regulates NEAT is unknown. However, hypothalamic factors have been identified that specifically and directly increase NEAT in animals. By understanding how NEAT is regulated we may come to appreciate that spontaneous physical activity is not spontaneous at all but carefully programmed.
So to make sure I understand this right: BMR is the sleeping & eating portion of our energy needs, or the basic needs for our function of just being alive. NEAT covers all the rest except for extreme exercise?
If basic movement, yard work, housework, fidgeting at my desk, all increase NEAT, how much are we really expecting in change, knowing that metabolism isn't something that can change a whole lot either way (in other words, you can't "break" your metabolism unless you're dead), and does it elevate that NEAT for a short time only, or can we encourage our bodies to keep it boosted longer?
I hadn't really come across much on this as the few threads I had seen it mentioned in were for folks that were lifting and toning their bodies and were regularly exercising.
I'm interested because I detest regular exercise and much prefer to get my activity in via housework and yardwork. But I also know that those kind of activities aren't continuous, meaning that I'm working at walking the house pushigng my vacuum cleaner, but its not at a constant pace like one gets when walking a treadmill.
It would be a relief to know that I'm not just trying to psyche myself out on the contribution that yardwork and housework has to activity - that it really is beneficial (other than having a clean house and a decent looking yard lol)
Right. BMR is calories to keep you alive, preserve your present form, and digest food. NEAT is all movement that is not intentional exercise from something as small as a smile to something as big as yard work.
You do not need a constant pace to get the benefit of walking. It would be more likely that combining any activity with walking like raking leaves/vacuuming will be of a higher benefit than just walking on a treadmill.
The benefit of intentional exercise is the structure. If you are doing it for cardio you are working to get your heart rate to a certain level. If you are doing strength training you are working on muscle groups and trying to use good techniques.
The body doesn't distinguish the type of activity. It just fuels it and tries to tune itself to do it more efficiently so it will use less energy.
NEAT deserves its own thread but in the meantime here is a good thread to read even though a few of the suggestions are clearly just mini exercise workouts:
https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10610953/neat-improvement-strategies-to-improve-weight-loss/p1
This is very helpful. And I have really struggled with much of this. When I first started really trying to lose weight in 2018. It was so confusing.
I knew what my BMR was as I was receiving it at the time from a Dr. I saw on a monthly basis. And on the main threads would see how MFP went by the N.E.A.T. method. My Dr. to get me moving more, was encouraging me to park farther away when shopping, consider taking the stairs. I still remember the conversation about it is ok to take stairs for only one flight until you can take for more. I was truly embarrassed to consider taking only flight and then looking for elevator.
Walking 50 to 75 feet I was huffing and puffing.
Also on main threads there was how should I say this many not so nice statements made by some people, making fun of people who would count housecleaning as exercise and so on. I really had to work on not taking that as a personal issue.
Now what I really use for my exercise is the fact I do cardio 6 days a week for 45 to 60 minutes. It is intentional on my recubment cross trainer. Not a fan of strength training and still having arm/shoulder issues so that is on hold. And understand this is intentional so I record it as exercise. But not grocery shopping, or basic food prep and so on that is just part of daily N.E.A.T.
Your TDEE (total daily energy expenditure) is the sum of your BMR + NEAT + Exercise. Even though MFP runs on a NEAT system when it adds in your exercise it is trying to give you your TDEE for that day and then subtract your weight loss goal calories from it.
If you set your goal for sedentary and you are doing at least a light active amount of NEAT you would not be eating enough. You could try to add in exercise calories for it but it would not be based on much and more likely to throw off your calorie goal. The only way around this is to count steps like using a fitbit, garmin, apple watch, etc.
When I started all of this I was actually at a sub sedentary level of activity. Standing for any period of time was hard for me and walking was minimal at best. When we first bought the house we are in I couldn't easily make it down the sidewalk to the front door. I remember the day we moved in. I was already tired that day and I decided to oversee the events happening at the new house while my wife coordinated the old. It was not like I could carry anything anyway. I brought a folding chair designed for people who are very overweight and by the time I got it out of my vehicle and into the garage I had to unfold it and take a rest before going the rest of the way. It wasn't like there was a hill to climb either. It was all pretty flat. There were 4 steps to get into the kitchen. As soon as I made it the rest of the way in I immediately unfolded the chair again and rested.
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just a random thought that has absolutely nothing to do with weight loss:
I'm eating a pork chop for dinner and have a cat that loves pork and is begging for pieces of it. I commented to him that if he were in the wild, he wouldn't be eating pig. Then I got to thinking: cat food always comes in turkey, chicken, beef, salmon, tuna, shellfish. I've seen rabbit, I think, in the petstores, and maybe duck. But a housecat would never be able to prey on any of those things (aside from the rabbit, if it was a small one) in the wild if it were a feral cat. Feral cats prey on mice, chipmunks, squirrels, snakes, small birds........so why do we never see mouse flavored cat food?2 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »just a random thought that has absolutely nothing to do with weight loss:
I'm eating a pork chop for dinner and have a cat that loves pork and is begging for pieces of it. I commented to him that if he were in the wild, he wouldn't be eating pig. Then I got to thinking: cat food always comes in turkey, chicken, beef, salmon, tuna, shellfish. I've seen rabbit, I think, in the petstores, and maybe duck. But a housecat would never be able to prey on any of those things (aside from the rabbit, if it was a small one) in the wild if it were a feral cat. Feral cats prey on mice, chipmunks, squirrels, snakes, small birds........so why do we never see mouse flavored cat food?
Feral cats probably eat more beef, pork and chicken than you think because they find it in the trash.
But the answer to the mouse question is probably because we don't eat mice and pet food is often made from the scraps and parts we don't eat.1 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »just a random thought that has absolutely nothing to do with weight loss:
I'm eating a pork chop for dinner and have a cat that loves pork and is begging for pieces of it. I commented to him that if he were in the wild, he wouldn't be eating pig. Then I got to thinking: cat food always comes in turkey, chicken, beef, salmon, tuna, shellfish. I've seen rabbit, I think, in the petstores, and maybe duck. But a housecat would never be able to prey on any of those things (aside from the rabbit, if it was a small one) in the wild if it were a feral cat. Feral cats prey on mice, chipmunks, squirrels, snakes, small birds........so why do we never see mouse flavored cat food?
Feral cats probably eat more beef, pork and chicken than you think because they find it in the trash.
But the answer to the mouse question is probably because we don't eat mice and pet food is often made from the scraps and parts we don't eat.
Well, I was thinking more along the lines of the smaller wild cats from which house cats descended who live away from human populations, but I see your poipnt. And its probably something to do with the buyer of said cat food as there's probably people who'd be rather upset to see a cat food bag labeled as being made from mouse or rats. Course at the same time, pet stores sell mice to be fed to snakes; then again, most folks probably don't realize that and it's not a front and center sort of marketing ploy either, I guess.1 -
my friend talked me into doing My Living DNA a year or so ago since we both like to dabble in family history and find that sort of thing interesting. I had also done 23 and Me as well. My Living DNA had me pegged as 67% British Isles (and over 50% was pure British) and the rest of me was germanic.
I got a notice today that they had refined the results and had updated my profile, so I go in and check and am quite amused by the results: I"m now 81.3% Great Britain and Ireland (only 9% Irish; 24% south-central England and 15% south-east England); the rest is nearly 12% south Germanic (what they call southern Germany, Austria, Switzerland), and the rest northern Germanic (northern Germany & southern Denmark). Does that make me more English than some people living in England today? lol (and it's also amusing that I live in southern WV and have ties to the south here in America; apparently my family line likes being in the south since they also lived in South Germany and Southern England.....:) )
While my friend had big surprises in her lineage, mine only confirms what I already suspected and even reinforces it. The family tree I found for my family dated back to 1200 and was all English with very little influx of other people groups; my DNA results just provides support for the lady's research.
It also gives credence to my theory as to who my mother's grandmother's real father was. We knew that she had been born out of wedlock, but for years, my mother and grandmother had thought her real father had been of one particular family until I happened to find a copy of her marriage certificate and saw that her mother had listed a man named Schwarz as the father (which blew my grandmother away). I told my mother that is a German name, but considering this was around the end of WWI, I could see why my great-great grandmother might not have wanted to own up to it. Seeing that I have such a strong representation of German in my DNA makes me think I'm on the right trail when it comes to Mr. Schwarz, though I can't find anything else out about him.
Anywho, I find all this fascinating - the family dirt can be especially fun to dig up! lol1 -
@bmeadows380, when my mom went digging, she found that we're descended from Oliver Cromwell. I...wasn't sure how I felt about that.0
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@theleadmare Well, it could be worse, I suppose- there are some really horrible creeps in the history of humanity!
I figure it doesn't really matter who's in my past or what they did; they're answerable for their deeds good or bad and I'm answerable for mine - though knowing their deeds makes for fascinating dinner conversations!
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We bought my parents (English by birth) an ancestry DNA kit for their Christmas present. It will be interesting to see the results. My children's would also be interesting given that my husband is African...his father's ancestors were driven north by Shaka Zulu but his mother believes her family originally came from West Africa not South. All from oral history so no way of knowing. None of them have any birth certificates, not even my husband. Given the height of my boys, there's definitely a throwback there to a different tribe from their Dad's which is small and thin!2
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maiomaio71 wrote: »We bought my parents (English by birth) an ancestry DNA kit for their Christmas present. It will be interesting to see the results. My children's would also be interesting given that my husband is African...his father's ancestors were driven north by Shaka Zulu but his mother believes her family originally came from West Africa not South. All from oral history so no way of knowing. None of them have any birth certificates, not even my husband. Given the height of my boys, there's definitely a throwback there to a different tribe from their Dad's which is small and thin!
DNA testing can be fascinating for sure! Sometimes the family oral history lines up with the genetic results, but sometimes there's surprises! And then there's the way the genetic lottery works, when one siblings gets one set of DNA for one ancestry but their other sibling doesn't get any of it. That's what happened with my best friend. The family history says that her grandmother was full blooded Cherokee but had been adopted way back in the early 1900's, when adoptions were all sealed. The paperwork is long gone as far as my friend knows. She did a couple of these ancestry things as well as one of her brothers and several cousins. When comparing the DNA results, she didn't show any native American at all, but her brother and some of her cousins did. However, the results weren't showing up as being Cherokee native American.
Meanwhile, records attested that her family had come from Scotland early on (backed the wrong side in the Jacobite rebellion). However, her DNA results showed a strong Scandinavian component. The Scottish was there, but was overshadowed by a strong northern Germanic component. So apparently, her family had been in Scotland as records show, but they had actually come from somewhere else, and apparently it was from Scandinavia. Of course that makes sense when one looks at history and sees how often the vikings raided and even settled in the British Isles.
But she was still very surprised by the Scandinavian component. Then she started looking at the native peoples in northern Scandinavia and realized that many had also immigrated to American and to the location where her grandmother was said to have been born, which has her now wondering if the family oral history that her grandmother was full-blooded Cherokee was wrong; she wonders if her grandmother was part Sami, especially when you compare the few photos she has of the woman to the typical facial structures of the two people groups.
So while my results just confirmed what the family oral history and paper history indicated, her results turned the family oral history on its head! People groups have moved around so much during history that it can be quite interesting what pops up in a DNA record.0 -
DNA is fascinating. I just generally say that I am Northern European mongrel. (grin) Pomerania (German when they left, Polish now), Denmark, Scotland, and England. I burn first and tan later.0
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this might be TMI if you think it through to the end......
I was wondering if taking miralax increases your water weight gain? I mean, the purpose of the stuff is to draw water in. I needed to start taking it this past weekend and usually when I do, I'll need to keep it in my routine for several days to get everything ironed back out again. While I know I was over this weekend, I did not go over maintenance at any time, and yet my weight was up 4 lbs on Monday morning. I know that is water weight, but was trying to figure out what had triggered me to be retaining water, other than mom's lasagna. Then, as I was preparing my morning coffee, I saw my miralax bottle and it got me to wondering if perhaps that is part of the reason for the water weight jump.0 -
Never thought of that but anything is possible!0
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bmeadows380 wrote: »this might be TMI if you think it through to the end......
I was wondering if taking miralax increases your water weight gain? I mean, the purpose of the stuff is to draw water in. I needed to start taking it this past weekend and usually when I do, I'll need to keep it in my routine for several days to get everything ironed back out again. While I know I was over this weekend, I did not go over maintenance at any time, and yet my weight was up 4 lbs on Monday morning. I know that is water weight, but was trying to figure out what had triggered me to be retaining water, other than mom's lasagna. Then, as I was preparing my morning coffee, I saw my miralax bottle and it got me to wondering if perhaps that is part of the reason for the water weight jump.
Could be. I jumped 7 pounds after a prescription level "clean out" during a nearly 2 day liquid diet. The nurse was really shocked though so it must not happen often. I am just lucky that way.2 -
completely unrelated to weight loss disclaimer....
Ever find yourself becoming emotional attached to a inanimate object? I've had this 2006 Honda CRV for almost 8 years now. The car has 193,000 miles on it. It needs a new starter, a new thermostat, most likely a water pump, has a faint antifreeze smell outside but no signs of leaks, but the other day, I noticed an oily sheen on the inside of the windshield near the heating vents, which indicates a possible problem with the heater core, which is NOT a cheap fix. Plus it needs tires.
So despite having been a really good car, age and mileage are catching up to it and it needs a lot of work. It's not my only vehicle - I have a truck that I've been using for the last 3 years, so this is more of an extra vehicle. But I had to make a decision on whether or not to sink money into the thing to fix it up. It's 193,000 miles and the car is 14 years old. Is it really worth putting the money into it to get it back running right? Especially since I already know from previous experience that a heater core is a major expense.
I like having 2 vehicles, and I'm about to pay my truck off, but I really don't want a car payment right now. The bluebook value of my care in fair condition is about $2000, but with all the problems it has, I doubt I could sell it outright for $1,000.
So, instead, I chose to donate it. Made the call today and the organization will make arrangements next week to pick it up. They take the car, no matter its shape, sell it at auction, keep the proceeds for their organization, and I get a receipt for the final price that is fully tax deductible.
I know it needs to be done, but I'm attached to the darn thing and feel like I"m betraying her! lol I had the same problem giving up the Subaru Legacy I had before this car - but the head gasket had blown a 2nd time in 6 months after the heater core in it went out on me and dumped the antifreeze in the passenger seat floor (hence my experience with heater core failure). I nearly cried when I had to leave it at the dealership.
Thought at least this way, I don't have to see someone driving it around and beating it up and mistreating it.....
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bmeadows380 wrote: »completely unrelated to weight loss disclaimer....
Ever find yourself becoming emotional attached to a inanimate object? I've had this 2006 Honda CRV for almost 8 years now. The car has 193,000 miles on it. It needs a new starter, a new thermostat, most likely a water pump, has a faint antifreeze smell outside but no signs of leaks, but the other day, I noticed an oily sheen on the inside of the windshield near the heating vents, which indicates a possible problem with the heater core, which is NOT a cheap fix. Plus it needs tires.
So despite having been a really good car, age and mileage are catching up to it and it needs a lot of work. It's not my only vehicle - I have a truck that I've been using for the last 3 years, so this is more of an extra vehicle. But I had to make a decision on whether or not to sink money into the thing to fix it up. It's 193,000 miles and the car is 14 years old. Is it really worth putting the money into it to get it back running right? Especially since I already know from previous experience that a heater core is a major expense.
I like having 2 vehicles, and I'm about to pay my truck off, but I really don't want a car payment right now. The bluebook value of my care in fair condition is about $2000, but with all the problems it has, I doubt I could sell it outright for $1,000.
So, instead, I chose to donate it. Made the call today and the organization will make arrangements next week to pick it up. They take the car, no matter its shape, sell it at auction, keep the proceeds for their organization, and I get a receipt for the final price that is fully tax deductible.
I know it needs to be done, but I'm attached to the darn thing and feel like I"m betraying her! lol I had the same problem giving up the Subaru Legacy I had before this car - but the head gasket had blown a 2nd time in 6 months after the heater core in it went out on me and dumped the antifreeze in the passenger seat floor (hence my experience with heater core failure). I nearly cried when I had to leave it at the dealership.
Thought at least this way, I don't have to see someone driving it around and beating it up and mistreating it.....
I tend to be loyal to any possession that lasts for several years. I don't get too emotional but I do feel a sense of loss when I am forced to move on. It is not even always big things like vehicles. I have had the same pair of sunglasses for 20 years and while they are not my primary ones anymore I still use them in situations where the scratches do not bother me too much. I would not have gotten rid of my wallet but it had gotten so loose my cards were falling out of it. I still haven't replaced it with one I like as well. On occasion I smoke a (tobacco) pipe and even though it had been ruined for 10 years I kept the first pipe I ever purchased until just recently. I didn't just keep it I kept cleaning it and shining it. It was on display with the rest.1 -
I tend to be loyal to any possession that lasts for several years. I don't get too emotional but I do feel a sense of loss when I am forced to move on. It is not even always big things like vehicles. I have had the same pair of sunglasses for 20 years and while they are not my primary ones anymore I still use them in situations where the scratches do not bother me too much. I would not have gotten rid of my wallet but it had gotten so loose my cards were falling out of it. I still haven't replaced it with one I like as well. On occasion I smoke a (tobacco) pipe and even though it had been ruined for 10 years I kept the first pipe I ever purchased until just recently. I didn't just keep it I kept cleaning it and shining it. It was on display with the rest.
It's good to know I'm not the only sort of person to do this lol
My mom went through the boxes in her attic back in the fall, and several were mine from childhood. Most were things that have no value, some chipped, cracked, or not working, but I couldn't bear to part with them. I toss very few of the items; the rest came with me to my house and put into a fresh box for storage.1 -
My Mom is the same way. Her car was 17 years old and falling apart, we had to practically pry the keys out of her hand to get rid of it. It just wasn't reliable anymore. I think she still harbors a grudge that I made her get a new one.1
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We finally had rain today. It's been over 50 days since we had any rainfall and we got a thunderstorm! To celebrate the cooling weather I made a large batch of pumpkin soup and went for a walk in the rain. Just to enjoy the fact it was finally raining! Didn't last long but that smell....loved it. Hopefully we don't go another 50 days without any!5
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I got myself a pair of Xpand shoe laces. Of all the mundane activities that I cherish being able to do now bending down to tie my shoes is still not one of them. I can't bring myself to buy anymore velcro shoes so this is a good compromise. I will still have to tie my other shoes but the ones I use at the gym and walking are now easier to get on and off.1
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Being able to tie your shoes without feeling like you are going to suffocate is a huge NSV that you can look forward too soon.0
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I don't know if this is happening to anyone else, but my interest in continuing my weight loss and counting calories has really sharpened as we've restricted our activities due to the pandemic. I don't know whether it's a control thing (I have to control something I CAN control, since there's so much I can't) or whether it's a desire to prove that No. Matter. What. Happens. I'm losing this weight this year! I miss the gym a lot, but I also haven't outgrown my hand weights at home, and I still can't plank as long as I'd like, so there's goals to reach here in exercise.
It definitely helps that I have a couple months under my belt and know that even if I'm hungry a certain portion really will satisfy, or that the desire to eat is really a desire to have some water and go to bed cause I'm tired. I'm trying to channel the anxiety I feel about the pandemic into organizing/cleaning/packing.4
