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  • ConfidentRaven
    ConfidentRaven Posts: 1,428 Member
    NovusDies wrote: »
    I try to always remember to share mine too. I always hope that people will see that not only do you not have to be perfect but you do not have to have all the answers immediately to succeed. Even when you think you have an answer sometimes the problem shifts just enough that what worked last time doesn't work this time.

    The first time I went through November and December holidays was easy. I put together a plan of how many calories and how to allow more treats and executed it flawlessly. I did eat extra food but it was all controlled.

    This season was a mess in comparison. The one thing that kept it somewhat contained was that I kept logging. Other people think it is ridiculous to log food during holidays, vacations, etc. and I can see their point but it is what I need to do. There may come a day when I decide it is okay to skip but no time soon.

    You hit on something that I realized this holiday, logging will be a must for me, as will be sticking to my eating schedule. My calories and food choices were all over the place and I felt like I was always eating over the holidays. On a normal day I eat 3 meals a day with an occasional mid afternoon cheese or yogurt and fruit snack when needed. I know some people can do the 6 small meals a day and do really well, but I am so not one of them. I don't even like doing the one snack a day and will do everything to avoid it, but some days it's grab some cheese and fruit or risk overeating at dinner. I often find that if I snack I want to SNACK and that's not going to be helpful, so I limit my eating to 3 meals as often as possible.

    Because I didn't log over the holiday I found myself thinking that I didn't eat that much, so that snack or that treat was okay. It was almost like if I didn't log it, it couldn't have been that many calories and besides holiday calories don't count, right? I did so much better on my first diet break where I planned my meals, ate them at my normal eating time, and logged what I ate, than I did with the holiday break eat when and what I wanted. I also found it easier to get back on track the first time than I did this time, probably because I didn't break from my routine, and for me that routine is vital.

    However, I do not regret how I handled my holiday break, I learned a lot about my current eating habits and where I still have short falls. I also discovered how much my tastes have changed and it gives me a lot more faith about losing and continuing to figure out how and what to eat.
  • bmeadows380
    bmeadows380 Posts: 3,098 Member
    *winces* the last three days have not been good for me. It's been a struggle to just stay within maintenance, and I'm pretty sure I went over that today. I was doing so well, too, until Thursday afternoon. My brain is such a complicated, pretentious beast sometimes! I hit 100 lbs on Thursday morning, and its like my brain must have short circuited over the joy of hitting that goal, because its decided it wants to eat everything in sight. I was actually snacking on raw oats this evening - just a pinch right out of the tub (when the beast is demanding food, and by the beast, I mean my brain, not my stomach as the stomach is perfectly content right now, when that beast is demanding food, it will take whatever it can get, and it's interesting how imaginative I can get when I'm looking for a snack, even when i don't keep snack foods in the house....)

    *sigh* I'm not sure what has tripped this off, but I really need to get it back under control! It's almost like the way i feel in the 48 hours leading to TOM, but that's not supposed to be until Friday, so for some reason, PMS seems to have decided to come earlier than normal. I sincerely hope that doesn't mean I'll be fighting this feeling all week long!

    Tomorrow will hopefully be better. Normally, I'd be going to Mom's for Sunday dinner after church since we switch off Sundays and its her turn, but my brother's wife is having a gender reveal party tomorrow, and I've elected to stay home while Mom and Dad are going (I can't stand my brother's in-laws and am just not in the state of mind to deal with them tomorrow, so I'm using church choir practice as my excuse to get out of it--yes, awful, I know, but sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do, right?). So that means I'll be getting my own meals tomorrow which also means I can hopefully practice damage control. Mom tries to sympathize with me and help me out, but she forgets important ingredients and amounts and her portions sizes are out of wack which means I know I"m always over on her Sundays. Since I"m fending for myself tomorrow, hopefully I can at least contain the damage and hopefully reverse this irritating trend!

    And maybe I can get a fast day in next week and maybe get some damage control in.......
  • NovusDies
    NovusDies Posts: 8,940 Member
    NovusDies wrote: »
    I try to always remember to share mine too. I always hope that people will see that not only do you not have to be perfect but you do not have to have all the answers immediately to succeed. Even when you think you have an answer sometimes the problem shifts just enough that what worked last time doesn't work this time.

    The first time I went through November and December holidays was easy. I put together a plan of how many calories and how to allow more treats and executed it flawlessly. I did eat extra food but it was all controlled.

    This season was a mess in comparison. The one thing that kept it somewhat contained was that I kept logging. Other people think it is ridiculous to log food during holidays, vacations, etc. and I can see their point but it is what I need to do. There may come a day when I decide it is okay to skip but no time soon.

    You hit on something that I realized this holiday, logging will be a must for me, as will be sticking to my eating schedule. My calories and food choices were all over the place and I felt like I was always eating over the holidays. On a normal day I eat 3 meals a day with an occasional mid afternoon cheese or yogurt and fruit snack when needed. I know some people can do the 6 small meals a day and do really well, but I am so not one of them. I don't even like doing the one snack a day and will do everything to avoid it, but some days it's grab some cheese and fruit or risk overeating at dinner. I often find that if I snack I want to SNACK and that's not going to be helpful, so I limit my eating to 3 meals as often as possible.

    Because I didn't log over the holiday I found myself thinking that I didn't eat that much, so that snack or that treat was okay. It was almost like if I didn't log it, it couldn't have been that many calories and besides holiday calories don't count, right? I did so much better on my first diet break where I planned my meals, ate them at my normal eating time, and logged what I ate, than I did with the holiday break eat when and what I wanted. I also found it easier to get back on track the first time than I did this time, probably because I didn't break from my routine, and for me that routine is vital.

    However, I do not regret how I handled my holiday break, I learned a lot about my current eating habits and where I still have short falls. I also discovered how much my tastes have changed and it gives me a lot more faith about losing and continuing to figure out how and what to eat.

    I love your objective hindsight. I definitely learned a few things about myself over the holidays too. Obviously I would rather not have to keep learning about my weak areas but I would much rather learn it this way then allow something to go on for months or years (as I have in the past) and experience a major weight gain. I have already lost the little bit of weight I gained so it was barely a bump in the road.
  • NovusDies
    NovusDies Posts: 8,940 Member
    *winces* the last three days have not been good for me. It's been a struggle to just stay within maintenance, and I'm pretty sure I went over that today. I was doing so well, too, until Thursday afternoon. My brain is such a complicated, pretentious beast sometimes! I hit 100 lbs on Thursday morning, and its like my brain must have short circuited over the joy of hitting that goal, because its decided it wants to eat everything in sight. I was actually snacking on raw oats this evening - just a pinch right out of the tub (when the beast is demanding food, and by the beast, I mean my brain, not my stomach as the stomach is perfectly content right now, when that beast is demanding food, it will take whatever it can get, and it's interesting how imaginative I can get when I'm looking for a snack, even when i don't keep snack foods in the house....)

    *sigh* I'm not sure what has tripped this off, but I really need to get it back under control! It's almost like the way i feel in the 48 hours leading to TOM, but that's not supposed to be until Friday, so for some reason, PMS seems to have decided to come earlier than normal. I sincerely hope that doesn't mean I'll be fighting this feeling all week long!

    Tomorrow will hopefully be better. Normally, I'd be going to Mom's for Sunday dinner after church since we switch off Sundays and its her turn, but my brother's wife is having a gender reveal party tomorrow, and I've elected to stay home while Mom and Dad are going (I can't stand my brother's in-laws and am just not in the state of mind to deal with them tomorrow, so I'm using church choir practice as my excuse to get out of it--yes, awful, I know, but sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do, right?). So that means I'll be getting my own meals tomorrow which also means I can hopefully practice damage control. Mom tries to sympathize with me and help me out, but she forgets important ingredients and amounts and her portions sizes are out of wack which means I know I"m always over on her Sundays. Since I"m fending for myself tomorrow, hopefully I can at least contain the damage and hopefully reverse this irritating trend!

    And maybe I can get a fast day in next week and maybe get some damage control in.......

    I cannot even blame TOM for when that happens to me. It doesn't happen often but I have definitely had mini sprints of it. I know some people get a feeling that a reward is due for an accomplishment. Mine never really come after a milestone though.

    Try not to make it worse than it is though. That screws me up even more. If you are eating very close to maintenance or even if a little over no damage is being done. It is irritating but sometimes it is the price of being a human. You may be mad at yourself for not celebrating your 100 milestone. I tend to "act out" when I am mad at myself about something.
  • ConfidentRaven
    ConfidentRaven Posts: 1,428 Member
    @bmeadows380 You're not alone in the pre tom hungry, I also get them near ovulation. I don't know your way of eating, but I try to add a little more protein and/or healthy fats. I've found that for me a serving of 4% cottage cheese or applewood smooked Gouda and some grapes really help some of the times, others not so much and at that point I'll eat to cravings and near maintanence rather than driving myself crazy. Hang in there and know you aren't alone.
  • bmeadows380
    bmeadows380 Posts: 3,098 Member
    @ConfidentRaven I wish protein/healthy fats would satisfy my beast; when my brain is demanding food, though, nothing truly satisfies as it seems to want to eat and isn't craving anything in particular - that's the worst part, because if it was craving something, I'd get it and get over it, but apparently, the craving is to eat itself. I've tried proteins in various forms, I've tried fats, I've tried healthy carbs, unhealthy carbs; doesn't matter.

    I'm going to try my best to get a fast in tomorrow, if at least, perhaps either skip breakfast or lunch and wait until dinner. Sometimes, not always, but sometimes, fasting can calm the beast down; hopefully, it will work tomorrow. At the very least, if I can skip a meal or two, I'll catch up to the excesses from this weekend, anyway!
  • bmeadows380
    bmeadows380 Posts: 3,098 Member
    well, I didn't get a full fast in today BUT I did manage to wait until noon to break my fast, and, even though I ended up going out for pizza of all things with my sister for dinner and then to the movies, I still managed to come under my calorie limit by 100 calories! I also managed to stop myself at only 3 pieces of pizza, and it was thin crust and supreme with lots of veggies. Nothing during the movie except for a bottle of water - the theater couldn't provide unbuttered popcorn as they had this self-serve thing going on, so I walked away from that and any candy.

    So that's a vast improvement from the last 4 days!

    Now if I can just get my stinking pellet stove to burn. Figures it decides to be contrary tonight, when the lows are in the low teens! If I can't get it to fire, then I'm going to be stuck with my backup - baseboard heaters.....
  • NovusDies
    NovusDies Posts: 8,940 Member
    My latest question is about my drastic shift in activity. As you may know I am against drastic changes but it seems to have happened anyway. I am worried that I will want to revert at some point because this is abnormal behavior for me. On the other hand I also wonder if I am not just catching up to where I should have been. My pre-surgery self was being held back quite a bit and some of that was likely my lack of resolve to increase my activity in other ways. I was pushing myself some but I was only lightly active and that was after losing over 200 pounds. Now I seem to have jumped over moderately active and I am fully active.

    As long as I keep an eye on my behavior and adjust my eating back down if my level slips back down I am okay I guess. I do not want to get "spoiled" with my present calorie level though. I am trying to add some of the calories in ways I can subtract them easily if needed like increasing the amount of cheese and oil.

  • ZoneFive
    ZoneFive Posts: 570 Member
    NovusDies wrote: »
    My latest question is about my drastic shift in activity. As you may know I am against drastic changes but it seems to have happened anyway. I am worried that I will want to revert at some point because this is abnormal behavior for me. On the other hand I also wonder if I am not just catching up to where I should have been. My pre-surgery self was being held back quite a bit and some of that was likely my lack of resolve to increase my activity in other ways. I was pushing myself some but I was only lightly active and that was after losing over 200 pounds. Now I seem to have jumped over moderately active and I am fully active.

    As long as I keep an eye on my behavior and adjust my eating back down if my level slips back down I am okay I guess. I do not want to get "spoiled" with my present calorie level though. I am trying to add some of the calories in ways I can subtract them easily if needed like increasing the amount of cheese and oil.

    I think that like "normal weight" is a range, so is activity. There are times when I feel like being up and doing, and times when my metabolism might be 95% slug. I'll never be a high-NEAT, hummingbird type person, and if I sit for too long I get antsy and twitchy, so the extreme ends of the spectrum are not in my range, but my own "normal" falls somewhere between the two. I swing between them, and don't spend too much time at each end.
  • NovusDies
    NovusDies Posts: 8,940 Member
    ZoneFive wrote: »
    NovusDies wrote: »
    My latest question is about my drastic shift in activity. As you may know I am against drastic changes but it seems to have happened anyway. I am worried that I will want to revert at some point because this is abnormal behavior for me. On the other hand I also wonder if I am not just catching up to where I should have been. My pre-surgery self was being held back quite a bit and some of that was likely my lack of resolve to increase my activity in other ways. I was pushing myself some but I was only lightly active and that was after losing over 200 pounds. Now I seem to have jumped over moderately active and I am fully active.

    As long as I keep an eye on my behavior and adjust my eating back down if my level slips back down I am okay I guess. I do not want to get "spoiled" with my present calorie level though. I am trying to add some of the calories in ways I can subtract them easily if needed like increasing the amount of cheese and oil.

    I think that like "normal weight" is a range, so is activity. There are times when I feel like being up and doing, and times when my metabolism might be 95% slug. I'll never be a high-NEAT, hummingbird type person, and if I sit for too long I get antsy and twitchy, so the extreme ends of the spectrum are not in my range, but my own "normal" falls somewhere between the two. I swing between them, and don't spend too much time at each end.

    I am completely fascinated with NEAT improvement. However, my post above was really talking about my intentional exercise. My requirement is 30 minutes a day, my desired is 60 minutes a day but I am routinely hitting 80 and above. Some of that is borderline NEAT because I am walking the dog and when I do I try to keep the pace that I do when I am out walking for exercise.

    I am wondering if I will actually want to continue at this pace or if it will settle down some. Except for the morning time spent on the elliptical I am enjoying the rest.
  • ConfidentRaven
    ConfidentRaven Posts: 1,428 Member
    @novusdies I find it varies for me and is very dependant on the weather. When it's nice I want to get out and walk in addition to any other exercise, when it's not I want to sit and coach potato. I think over time you'll see where your activity settles decides to balance out at, just be sure to watch that if you start to slide in activity that you lower your calorie intake. One thing that has worked for me has been to reset myself to sedentary from lightly active and base eating more off my weight loss trend and activity level. It's not always perfect, but it's what I got at the moment.
  • NovusDies
    NovusDies Posts: 8,940 Member
    @ConfidentRaven

    I keep a watchful eye on myself and my spreadsheet will tell me when my rate of loss begins to lower if I do not catch it before.

    I kind of feel like a kid on Christmas morning all the time lately. I am so excited to be finally able to move I just want to keep doing it. I cannot believe how much better my life is now that the surgery has removed my impediment. I was losing weight for all that time but I wasn't able to fully appreciate it. I went to sleep for 4 hours and woke up an entirely different man.

    My concern is that Christmas fades but I think as long as I am aware of it I should be okay. Plus I have all of you to keep reminding me to keep my eye on it.
  • bmeadows380
    bmeadows380 Posts: 3,098 Member
    well, they killed me this morning - the office had their 2020 Safety Kick off, and catered breakfast in from Bob Evans. I stayed away from the gravy, only had 1 slice of bacon and 2 sausage links, but filled up on scrambled eggs and fruit and couldn't resist having 2 biscuits (though at least I stopped at 2). The eggs and the fruit also got me in the calorie count department. The only way I could salvage the day is to not eat anything else the rest of the day, and I know myself well enough to know that ain't happening, so I'm just going to have to resign myself to being over limit today but make sure I stay under maintenance.

    Tomorrow is scale day and it's not going to be pretty. With 5 out of 7 days over limit and 1 over maintenance, I wasn't going to show any loss for this week anyway, and then with TOM on its way, I'm already bracing myself for a 3 or 4 lb gain to show tomorrow, though I can console myself with knowing that its going to be mostly water. My weight loss has been ratcheting anyway, so I'm down one week, then back up the next, down a little more after that, then back up, etc, so this was the up ratchet week anyway. But I did at least get back in control Monday and Tuesday and stayed under limit, and tomorrow is always a new day, right?
  • bmeadows380
    bmeadows380 Posts: 3,098 Member
    NovusDies wrote: »
    I am completely fascinated with NEAT improvement. However, my post above was really talking about my intentional exercise. My requirement is 30 minutes a day, my desired is 60 minutes a day but I am routinely hitting 80 and above. Some of that is borderline NEAT because I am walking the dog and when I do I try to keep the pace that I do when I am out walking for exercise.

    I am wondering if I will actually want to continue at this pace or if it will settle down some. Except for the morning time spent on the elliptical I am enjoying the rest.

    I don't spend time in the performance threads, but this above caught my eye. I looked around for a concise definition of what NEAT is, and found this:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12468415
    Non-exercise activity thermogenesis (NEAT) is the energy expended for everything we do that is not sleeping, eating or sports-like exercise. It ranges from the energy expended walking to work, typing, performing yard work, undertaking agricultural tasks and fidgeting. Even trivial physical activities increase metabolic rate substantially and it is the cumulative impact of a multitude of exothermic actions that culminate in an individual's daily NEAT. It is, therefore, not surprising that NEAT explains a vast majority of an individual's non-resting energy needs. Epidemiological studies highlight the importance of culture in promoting and quashing NEAT. Agricultural and manual workers have high NEAT, whereas wealth and industrialization appear to decrease NEAT. Physiological studies demonstrate, intriguingly, that NEAT is modulated with changes in energy balance; NEAT increases with overfeeding and decreases with underfeeding. Thus, NEAT could be a critical component in how we maintain our body weight and/or develop obesity or lose weight. The mechanism that regulates NEAT is unknown. However, hypothalamic factors have been identified that specifically and directly increase NEAT in animals. By understanding how NEAT is regulated we may come to appreciate that spontaneous physical activity is not spontaneous at all but carefully programmed.

    So to make sure I understand this right: BMR is the sleeping & eating portion of our energy needs, or the basic needs for our function of just being alive. NEAT covers all the rest except for extreme exercise?

    If basic movement, yard work, housework, fidgeting at my desk, all increase NEAT, how much are we really expecting in change, knowing that metabolism isn't something that can change a whole lot either way (in other words, you can't "break" your metabolism unless you're dead), and does it elevate that NEAT for a short time only, or can we encourage our bodies to keep it boosted longer?

    I hadn't really come across much on this as the few threads I had seen it mentioned in were for folks that were lifting and toning their bodies and were regularly exercising.

    I'm interested because I detest regular exercise and much prefer to get my activity in via housework and yardwork. But I also know that those kind of activities aren't continuous, meaning that I'm working at walking the house pushigng my vacuum cleaner, but its not at a constant pace like one gets when walking a treadmill.

    It would be a relief to know that I'm not just trying to psyche myself out on the contribution that yardwork and housework has to activity - that it really is beneficial (other than having a clean house and a decent looking yard lol)
  • conniewilkins56
    conniewilkins56 Posts: 3,344 Member
    I am only slightly “ active “ but as I am losing weight, I am moving around more and doing more...I don’t really think about it, it is just easier to move and walk...getting out of the car and off of the couch was a struggle...even cooking or unloading the dishwasher, I would have to stop and sit down or take a break to rest...I still have a lot of weight to lose but at least I can feel the difference my weight loss has made physically...mentally feeling different is still a work in progress!
  • NovusDies
    NovusDies Posts: 8,940 Member
    NovusDies wrote: »
    I am completely fascinated with NEAT improvement. However, my post above was really talking about my intentional exercise. My requirement is 30 minutes a day, my desired is 60 minutes a day but I am routinely hitting 80 and above. Some of that is borderline NEAT because I am walking the dog and when I do I try to keep the pace that I do when I am out walking for exercise.

    I am wondering if I will actually want to continue at this pace or if it will settle down some. Except for the morning time spent on the elliptical I am enjoying the rest.

    I don't spend time in the performance threads, but this above caught my eye. I looked around for a concise definition of what NEAT is, and found this:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12468415
    Non-exercise activity thermogenesis (NEAT) is the energy expended for everything we do that is not sleeping, eating or sports-like exercise. It ranges from the energy expended walking to work, typing, performing yard work, undertaking agricultural tasks and fidgeting. Even trivial physical activities increase metabolic rate substantially and it is the cumulative impact of a multitude of exothermic actions that culminate in an individual's daily NEAT. It is, therefore, not surprising that NEAT explains a vast majority of an individual's non-resting energy needs. Epidemiological studies highlight the importance of culture in promoting and quashing NEAT. Agricultural and manual workers have high NEAT, whereas wealth and industrialization appear to decrease NEAT. Physiological studies demonstrate, intriguingly, that NEAT is modulated with changes in energy balance; NEAT increases with overfeeding and decreases with underfeeding. Thus, NEAT could be a critical component in how we maintain our body weight and/or develop obesity or lose weight. The mechanism that regulates NEAT is unknown. However, hypothalamic factors have been identified that specifically and directly increase NEAT in animals. By understanding how NEAT is regulated we may come to appreciate that spontaneous physical activity is not spontaneous at all but carefully programmed.

    So to make sure I understand this right: BMR is the sleeping & eating portion of our energy needs, or the basic needs for our function of just being alive. NEAT covers all the rest except for extreme exercise?

    If basic movement, yard work, housework, fidgeting at my desk, all increase NEAT, how much are we really expecting in change, knowing that metabolism isn't something that can change a whole lot either way (in other words, you can't "break" your metabolism unless you're dead), and does it elevate that NEAT for a short time only, or can we encourage our bodies to keep it boosted longer?

    I hadn't really come across much on this as the few threads I had seen it mentioned in were for folks that were lifting and toning their bodies and were regularly exercising.

    I'm interested because I detest regular exercise and much prefer to get my activity in via housework and yardwork. But I also know that those kind of activities aren't continuous, meaning that I'm working at walking the house pushigng my vacuum cleaner, but its not at a constant pace like one gets when walking a treadmill.

    It would be a relief to know that I'm not just trying to psyche myself out on the contribution that yardwork and housework has to activity - that it really is beneficial (other than having a clean house and a decent looking yard lol)

    Right. BMR is calories to keep you alive, preserve your present form, and digest food. NEAT is all movement that is not intentional exercise from something as small as a smile to something as big as yard work.

    You do not need a constant pace to get the benefit of walking. It would be more likely that combining any activity with walking like raking leaves/vacuuming will be of a higher benefit than just walking on a treadmill.

    The benefit of intentional exercise is the structure. If you are doing it for cardio you are working to get your heart rate to a certain level. If you are doing strength training you are working on muscle groups and trying to use good techniques.

    The body doesn't distinguish the type of activity. It just fuels it and tries to tune itself to do it more efficiently so it will use less energy.

    NEAT deserves its own thread but in the meantime here is a good thread to read even though a few of the suggestions are clearly just mini exercise workouts:

    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10610953/neat-improvement-strategies-to-improve-weight-loss/p1
  • maureenkhilde
    maureenkhilde Posts: 850 Member
    NovusDies wrote: »
    NovusDies wrote: »
    I am completely fascinated with NEAT improvement. However, my post above was really talking about my intentional exercise. My requirement is 30 minutes a day, my desired is 60 minutes a day but I am routinely hitting 80 and above. Some of that is borderline NEAT because I am walking the dog and when I do I try to keep the pace that I do when I am out walking for exercise.

    I am wondering if I will actually want to continue at this pace or if it will settle down some. Except for the morning time spent on the elliptical I am enjoying the rest.

    I don't spend time in the performance threads, but this above caught my eye. I looked around for a concise definition of what NEAT is, and found this:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12468415
    Non-exercise activity thermogenesis (NEAT) is the energy expended for everything we do that is not sleeping, eating or sports-like exercise. It ranges from the energy expended walking to work, typing, performing yard work, undertaking agricultural tasks and fidgeting. Even trivial physical activities increase metabolic rate substantially and it is the cumulative impact of a multitude of exothermic actions that culminate in an individual's daily NEAT. It is, therefore, not surprising that NEAT explains a vast majority of an individual's non-resting energy needs. Epidemiological studies highlight the importance of culture in promoting and quashing NEAT. Agricultural and manual workers have high NEAT, whereas wealth and industrialization appear to decrease NEAT. Physiological studies demonstrate, intriguingly, that NEAT is modulated with changes in energy balance; NEAT increases with overfeeding and decreases with underfeeding. Thus, NEAT could be a critical component in how we maintain our body weight and/or develop obesity or lose weight. The mechanism that regulates NEAT is unknown. However, hypothalamic factors have been identified that specifically and directly increase NEAT in animals. By understanding how NEAT is regulated we may come to appreciate that spontaneous physical activity is not spontaneous at all but carefully programmed.

    So to make sure I understand this right: BMR is the sleeping & eating portion of our energy needs, or the basic needs for our function of just being alive. NEAT covers all the rest except for extreme exercise?

    If basic movement, yard work, housework, fidgeting at my desk, all increase NEAT, how much are we really expecting in change, knowing that metabolism isn't something that can change a whole lot either way (in other words, you can't "break" your metabolism unless you're dead), and does it elevate that NEAT for a short time only, or can we encourage our bodies to keep it boosted longer?

    I hadn't really come across much on this as the few threads I had seen it mentioned in were for folks that were lifting and toning their bodies and were regularly exercising.

    I'm interested because I detest regular exercise and much prefer to get my activity in via housework and yardwork. But I also know that those kind of activities aren't continuous, meaning that I'm working at walking the house pushigng my vacuum cleaner, but its not at a constant pace like one gets when walking a treadmill.

    It would be a relief to know that I'm not just trying to psyche myself out on the contribution that yardwork and housework has to activity - that it really is beneficial (other than having a clean house and a decent looking yard lol)

    Right. BMR is calories to keep you alive, preserve your present form, and digest food. NEAT is all movement that is not intentional exercise from something as small as a smile to something as big as yard work.

    You do not need a constant pace to get the benefit of walking. It would be more likely that combining any activity with walking like raking leaves/vacuuming will be of a higher benefit than just walking on a treadmill.

    The benefit of intentional exercise is the structure. If you are doing it for cardio you are working to get your heart rate to a certain level. If you are doing strength training you are working on muscle groups and trying to use good techniques.

    The body doesn't distinguish the type of activity. It just fuels it and tries to tune itself to do it more efficiently so it will use less energy.

    NEAT deserves its own thread but in the meantime here is a good thread to read even though a few of the suggestions are clearly just mini exercise workouts:

    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10610953/neat-improvement-strategies-to-improve-weight-loss/p1
    NovusDies wrote: »
    NovusDies wrote: »
    I am completely fascinated with NEAT improvement. However, my post above was really talking about my intentional exercise. My requirement is 30 minutes a day, my desired is 60 minutes a day but I am routinely hitting 80 and above. Some of that is borderline NEAT because I am walking the dog and when I do I try to keep the pace that I do when I am out walking for exercise.

    I am wondering if I will actually want to continue at this pace or if it will settle down some. Except for the morning time spent on the elliptical I am enjoying the rest.

    I don't spend time in the performance threads, but this above caught my eye. I looked around for a concise definition of what NEAT is, and found this:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12468415
    Non-exercise activity thermogenesis (NEAT) is the energy expended for everything we do that is not sleeping, eating or sports-like exercise. It ranges from the energy expended walking to work, typing, performing yard work, undertaking agricultural tasks and fidgeting. Even trivial physical activities increase metabolic rate substantially and it is the cumulative impact of a multitude of exothermic actions that culminate in an individual's daily NEAT. It is, therefore, not surprising that NEAT explains a vast majority of an individual's non-resting energy needs. Epidemiological studies highlight the importance of culture in promoting and quashing NEAT. Agricultural and manual workers have high NEAT, whereas wealth and industrialization appear to decrease NEAT. Physiological studies demonstrate, intriguingly, that NEAT is modulated with changes in energy balance; NEAT increases with overfeeding and decreases with underfeeding. Thus, NEAT could be a critical component in how we maintain our body weight and/or develop obesity or lose weight. The mechanism that regulates NEAT is unknown. However, hypothalamic factors have been identified that specifically and directly increase NEAT in animals. By understanding how NEAT is regulated we may come to appreciate that spontaneous physical activity is not spontaneous at all but carefully programmed.

    So to make sure I understand this right: BMR is the sleeping & eating portion of our energy needs, or the basic needs for our function of just being alive. NEAT covers all the rest except for extreme exercise?

    If basic movement, yard work, housework, fidgeting at my desk, all increase NEAT, how much are we really expecting in change, knowing that metabolism isn't something that can change a whole lot either way (in other words, you can't "break" your metabolism unless you're dead), and does it elevate that NEAT for a short time only, or can we encourage our bodies to keep it boosted longer?

    I hadn't really come across much on this as the few threads I had seen it mentioned in were for folks that were lifting and toning their bodies and were regularly exercising.

    I'm interested because I detest regular exercise and much prefer to get my activity in via housework and yardwork. But I also know that those kind of activities aren't continuous, meaning that I'm working at walking the house pushigng my vacuum cleaner, but its not at a constant pace like one gets when walking a treadmill.

    It would be a relief to know that I'm not just trying to psyche myself out on the contribution that yardwork and housework has to activity - that it really is beneficial (other than having a clean house and a decent looking yard lol)

    Right. BMR is calories to keep you alive, preserve your present form, and digest food. NEAT is all movement that is not intentional exercise from something as small as a smile to something as big as yard work.

    You do not need a constant pace to get the benefit of walking. It would be more likely that combining any activity with walking like raking leaves/vacuuming will be of a higher benefit than just walking on a treadmill.

    The benefit of intentional exercise is the structure. If you are doing it for cardio you are working to get your heart rate to a certain level. If you are doing strength training you are working on muscle groups and trying to use good techniques.

    The body doesn't distinguish the type of activity. It just fuels it and tries to tune itself to do it more efficiently so it will use less energy.

    NEAT deserves its own thread but in the meantime here is a good thread to read even though a few of the suggestions are clearly just mini exercise workouts:

    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10610953/neat-improvement-strategies-to-improve-weight-loss/p1

    This is very helpful. And I have really struggled with much of this. When I first started really trying to lose weight in 2018. It was so confusing.

    I knew what my BMR was as I was receiving it at the time from a Dr. I saw on a monthly basis. And on the main threads would see how MFP went by the N.E.A.T. method. My Dr. to get me moving more, was encouraging me to park farther away when shopping, consider taking the stairs. I still remember the conversation about it is ok to take stairs for only one flight until you can take for more. I was truly embarrassed to consider taking only flight and then looking for elevator.
    Walking 50 to 75 feet I was huffing and puffing.

    Also on main threads there was how should I say this many not so nice statements made by some people, making fun of people who would count housecleaning as exercise and so on. I really had to work on not taking that as a personal issue.

    Now what I really use for my exercise is the fact I do cardio 6 days a week for 45 to 60 minutes. It is intentional on my recubment cross trainer. Not a fan of strength training and still having arm/shoulder issues so that is on hold. And understand this is intentional so I record it as exercise. But not grocery shopping, or basic food prep and so on that is just part of daily N.E.A.T.
  • bmeadows380
    bmeadows380 Posts: 3,098 Member

    This is very helpful. And I have really struggled with much of this. When I first started really trying to lose weight in 2018. It was so confusing.

    I knew what my BMR was as I was receiving it at the time from a Dr. I saw on a monthly basis. And on the main threads would see how MFP went by the N.E.A.T. method. My Dr. to get me moving more, was encouraging me to park farther away when shopping, consider taking the stairs. I still remember the conversation about it is ok to take stairs for only one flight until you can take for more. I was truly embarrassed to consider taking only flight and then looking for elevator.
    Walking 50 to 75 feet I was huffing and puffing.

    Also on main threads there was how should I say this many not so nice statements made by some people, making fun of people who would count housecleaning as exercise and so on. I really had to work on not taking that as a personal issue.

    Now what I really use for my exercise is the fact I do cardio 6 days a week for 45 to 60 minutes. It is intentional on my recubment cross trainer. Not a fan of strength training and still having arm/shoulder issues so that is on hold. And understand this is intentional so I record it as exercise. But not grocery shopping, or basic food prep and so on that is just part of daily N.E.A.T.

    My understanding is that it really depends on what you set your activity level to. If you set it to sedentary, then all activity counts, so the grocery shopping (if you are able to push a buggy and walk the store), cleaning house, yard work, etc do need to be accounted for in the exercise section of the dairy.

    But if you are moving a lot during the day - have a job that has you up and about a lot, or unloading and carrying boxes throughout the day, and things like that, then you set your activity level to lightly or even moderately active, and those things will be counted in by MFP when it calculates your calorie limit, so if you set your activity level to lightly active, then you would NOT count those things in.

    In either case, regular, purposeful exercise would be counted as that's not in the NEAT equation.

    At least, that's how I thought it was supposed to be done!

    In my case, I'm sitting a lot during the day with my job. There are occasional days where I'm out in the field, but most days I'm at a computer. So I have my level set to sedentary. I'm single and live alone, so major house work like mopping is a once a week thing, sometimes longer. So on the days that I do mop or vacuum, I sometimes count those in. In the summer, I riding mow once a week, trim up with a push mower about every other week, and weed whack once a month. I count that activity on the days I do them, but don't set my activity level higher because that's not something I do every day or most days of the week.

    I also know that MFP's values for activity are high, so I never count the full time I do these activities, either; I usually count about half.
  • NovusDies
    NovusDies Posts: 8,940 Member
    NovusDies wrote: »
    NovusDies wrote: »
    I am completely fascinated with NEAT improvement. However, my post above was really talking about my intentional exercise. My requirement is 30 minutes a day, my desired is 60 minutes a day but I am routinely hitting 80 and above. Some of that is borderline NEAT because I am walking the dog and when I do I try to keep the pace that I do when I am out walking for exercise.

    I am wondering if I will actually want to continue at this pace or if it will settle down some. Except for the morning time spent on the elliptical I am enjoying the rest.

    I don't spend time in the performance threads, but this above caught my eye. I looked around for a concise definition of what NEAT is, and found this:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12468415
    Non-exercise activity thermogenesis (NEAT) is the energy expended for everything we do that is not sleeping, eating or sports-like exercise. It ranges from the energy expended walking to work, typing, performing yard work, undertaking agricultural tasks and fidgeting. Even trivial physical activities increase metabolic rate substantially and it is the cumulative impact of a multitude of exothermic actions that culminate in an individual's daily NEAT. It is, therefore, not surprising that NEAT explains a vast majority of an individual's non-resting energy needs. Epidemiological studies highlight the importance of culture in promoting and quashing NEAT. Agricultural and manual workers have high NEAT, whereas wealth and industrialization appear to decrease NEAT. Physiological studies demonstrate, intriguingly, that NEAT is modulated with changes in energy balance; NEAT increases with overfeeding and decreases with underfeeding. Thus, NEAT could be a critical component in how we maintain our body weight and/or develop obesity or lose weight. The mechanism that regulates NEAT is unknown. However, hypothalamic factors have been identified that specifically and directly increase NEAT in animals. By understanding how NEAT is regulated we may come to appreciate that spontaneous physical activity is not spontaneous at all but carefully programmed.

    So to make sure I understand this right: BMR is the sleeping & eating portion of our energy needs, or the basic needs for our function of just being alive. NEAT covers all the rest except for extreme exercise?

    If basic movement, yard work, housework, fidgeting at my desk, all increase NEAT, how much are we really expecting in change, knowing that metabolism isn't something that can change a whole lot either way (in other words, you can't "break" your metabolism unless you're dead), and does it elevate that NEAT for a short time only, or can we encourage our bodies to keep it boosted longer?

    I hadn't really come across much on this as the few threads I had seen it mentioned in were for folks that were lifting and toning their bodies and were regularly exercising.

    I'm interested because I detest regular exercise and much prefer to get my activity in via housework and yardwork. But I also know that those kind of activities aren't continuous, meaning that I'm working at walking the house pushigng my vacuum cleaner, but its not at a constant pace like one gets when walking a treadmill.

    It would be a relief to know that I'm not just trying to psyche myself out on the contribution that yardwork and housework has to activity - that it really is beneficial (other than having a clean house and a decent looking yard lol)

    Right. BMR is calories to keep you alive, preserve your present form, and digest food. NEAT is all movement that is not intentional exercise from something as small as a smile to something as big as yard work.

    You do not need a constant pace to get the benefit of walking. It would be more likely that combining any activity with walking like raking leaves/vacuuming will be of a higher benefit than just walking on a treadmill.

    The benefit of intentional exercise is the structure. If you are doing it for cardio you are working to get your heart rate to a certain level. If you are doing strength training you are working on muscle groups and trying to use good techniques.

    The body doesn't distinguish the type of activity. It just fuels it and tries to tune itself to do it more efficiently so it will use less energy.

    NEAT deserves its own thread but in the meantime here is a good thread to read even though a few of the suggestions are clearly just mini exercise workouts:

    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10610953/neat-improvement-strategies-to-improve-weight-loss/p1
    NovusDies wrote: »
    NovusDies wrote: »
    I am completely fascinated with NEAT improvement. However, my post above was really talking about my intentional exercise. My requirement is 30 minutes a day, my desired is 60 minutes a day but I am routinely hitting 80 and above. Some of that is borderline NEAT because I am walking the dog and when I do I try to keep the pace that I do when I am out walking for exercise.

    I am wondering if I will actually want to continue at this pace or if it will settle down some. Except for the morning time spent on the elliptical I am enjoying the rest.

    I don't spend time in the performance threads, but this above caught my eye. I looked around for a concise definition of what NEAT is, and found this:

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12468415
    Non-exercise activity thermogenesis (NEAT) is the energy expended for everything we do that is not sleeping, eating or sports-like exercise. It ranges from the energy expended walking to work, typing, performing yard work, undertaking agricultural tasks and fidgeting. Even trivial physical activities increase metabolic rate substantially and it is the cumulative impact of a multitude of exothermic actions that culminate in an individual's daily NEAT. It is, therefore, not surprising that NEAT explains a vast majority of an individual's non-resting energy needs. Epidemiological studies highlight the importance of culture in promoting and quashing NEAT. Agricultural and manual workers have high NEAT, whereas wealth and industrialization appear to decrease NEAT. Physiological studies demonstrate, intriguingly, that NEAT is modulated with changes in energy balance; NEAT increases with overfeeding and decreases with underfeeding. Thus, NEAT could be a critical component in how we maintain our body weight and/or develop obesity or lose weight. The mechanism that regulates NEAT is unknown. However, hypothalamic factors have been identified that specifically and directly increase NEAT in animals. By understanding how NEAT is regulated we may come to appreciate that spontaneous physical activity is not spontaneous at all but carefully programmed.

    So to make sure I understand this right: BMR is the sleeping & eating portion of our energy needs, or the basic needs for our function of just being alive. NEAT covers all the rest except for extreme exercise?

    If basic movement, yard work, housework, fidgeting at my desk, all increase NEAT, how much are we really expecting in change, knowing that metabolism isn't something that can change a whole lot either way (in other words, you can't "break" your metabolism unless you're dead), and does it elevate that NEAT for a short time only, or can we encourage our bodies to keep it boosted longer?

    I hadn't really come across much on this as the few threads I had seen it mentioned in were for folks that were lifting and toning their bodies and were regularly exercising.

    I'm interested because I detest regular exercise and much prefer to get my activity in via housework and yardwork. But I also know that those kind of activities aren't continuous, meaning that I'm working at walking the house pushigng my vacuum cleaner, but its not at a constant pace like one gets when walking a treadmill.

    It would be a relief to know that I'm not just trying to psyche myself out on the contribution that yardwork and housework has to activity - that it really is beneficial (other than having a clean house and a decent looking yard lol)

    Right. BMR is calories to keep you alive, preserve your present form, and digest food. NEAT is all movement that is not intentional exercise from something as small as a smile to something as big as yard work.

    You do not need a constant pace to get the benefit of walking. It would be more likely that combining any activity with walking like raking leaves/vacuuming will be of a higher benefit than just walking on a treadmill.

    The benefit of intentional exercise is the structure. If you are doing it for cardio you are working to get your heart rate to a certain level. If you are doing strength training you are working on muscle groups and trying to use good techniques.

    The body doesn't distinguish the type of activity. It just fuels it and tries to tune itself to do it more efficiently so it will use less energy.

    NEAT deserves its own thread but in the meantime here is a good thread to read even though a few of the suggestions are clearly just mini exercise workouts:

    https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10610953/neat-improvement-strategies-to-improve-weight-loss/p1

    This is very helpful. And I have really struggled with much of this. When I first started really trying to lose weight in 2018. It was so confusing.

    I knew what my BMR was as I was receiving it at the time from a Dr. I saw on a monthly basis. And on the main threads would see how MFP went by the N.E.A.T. method. My Dr. to get me moving more, was encouraging me to park farther away when shopping, consider taking the stairs. I still remember the conversation about it is ok to take stairs for only one flight until you can take for more. I was truly embarrassed to consider taking only flight and then looking for elevator.
    Walking 50 to 75 feet I was huffing and puffing.

    Also on main threads there was how should I say this many not so nice statements made by some people, making fun of people who would count housecleaning as exercise and so on. I really had to work on not taking that as a personal issue.

    Now what I really use for my exercise is the fact I do cardio 6 days a week for 45 to 60 minutes. It is intentional on my recubment cross trainer. Not a fan of strength training and still having arm/shoulder issues so that is on hold. And understand this is intentional so I record it as exercise. But not grocery shopping, or basic food prep and so on that is just part of daily N.E.A.T.


    Your TDEE (total daily energy expenditure) is the sum of your BMR + NEAT + Exercise. Even though MFP runs on a NEAT system when it adds in your exercise it is trying to give you your TDEE for that day and then subtract your weight loss goal calories from it.

    If you set your goal for sedentary and you are doing at least a light active amount of NEAT you would not be eating enough. You could try to add in exercise calories for it but it would not be based on much and more likely to throw off your calorie goal. The only way around this is to count steps like using a fitbit, garmin, apple watch, etc.

    When I started all of this I was actually at a sub sedentary level of activity. Standing for any period of time was hard for me and walking was minimal at best. When we first bought the house we are in I couldn't easily make it down the sidewalk to the front door. I remember the day we moved in. I was already tired that day and I decided to oversee the events happening at the new house while my wife coordinated the old. It was not like I could carry anything anyway. I brought a folding chair designed for people who are very overweight and by the time I got it out of my vehicle and into the garage I had to unfold it and take a rest before going the rest of the way. It wasn't like there was a hill to climb either. It was all pretty flat. There were 4 steps to get into the kitchen. As soon as I made it the rest of the way in I immediately unfolded the chair again and rested.