Experiments, tests, trying things out..
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Pulses? Only pulses I know are taken at the doctors office to see if you’re still alive. Also Carlin peas? Perhaps chick peas or garbanzos?
Don't let the feeding pigeons comment put you off - they're delicious, with a lovely nutty flavour. They can be used in place of chickpeas in many recipes. They're probably more commonly known as Black Badgers....2 -
Bella_Figura wrote: »... they're delicious, with a lovely nutty flavour. They can be used in place of chickpeas in many recipes. They're probably more commonly known as Black Badgers....
Don't think I have had these - though it seems impossible to have not....Perhaps another name here. Going to investigate!
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I like peas. Especially with carrots! Or tomatoes and onions and dill and more or less olive oil! 😹0
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Ok - pigeon peas we have. No black badgers though. Still working on deciphering pulses.1
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Figured out pulses - peas, beans and lentils. Basically what we call legumes.1
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I’ve decided to cut down to two meals plus controlled snacks. Lately my biggest meal of the day is increasingly more calories. Don’t know whether it’s the holidays or hunger from getting back to more exercise after six months off.
So I’ll switch to a moderate breakfast, a substantial lunch and use the remaining calories for late day holiday treats/ snacks. I’ve been eating a light dinner daily because that was my routine weight loss plan. But snacks seem to be calling at the end of the day. So why not have ice cream, crackers or chocolates instead for dinner? Not the most nutritious way to go but worth the experiment.2 -
It's worth testing the hypothesis Yooly - if it doesn't work out you can always try something else...
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I'm pleased to report that eating a minimum of 30g fibre a day and including protein at every meal has made a HUGE difference to my hunger - in fact, it's eradicated it almost entirely, so I'm back to the happy position that I was in for my first 28 weeks, when I didn't really experience hunger at all.
Just does to show that calories aren't all equal, and the foods you choose to spend the calories on can make a huge difference to your satiety and energy levels. I knew that, but somewhere along the way I forgot the lesson and had 6 weeks of raging hunger before I remembered what a difference fibre makes...2 -
I’ve done the fiber and protein religiously for two years. I get plenty of both at breakfast and lunch. I’m just not all that hungry later in the day - for a meal. So small snacks later in the day seems doable. Doesn’t have to be sweets or junk. Maybe a little cheese? I am feeling that small calculated munchies over time later in day might kick start weight loss. Beats munchies plus dinner which puts me over the deficit level.2
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@Yoolypr , one of the many eye opening moments of calorie counting for me was the realization that it wasn't NECESSARILY my meals that were causing my weight gain. It was the fact that I "deserved and expected" to have my three squares regardless of all the "snacking" I was doing.
So been out shopping and had a double scoop of gelato? Yeah, ok, but that was ice cream, I STILL have to have a nutritious meal for dinner, right?
The breakthrough with logging was that.... "oops, I've already had my calories for the day with the double waffle cone I ate! I guess I am staying hungry tonight"--ok, maybe eating a tub of 0% yoplait with some all bran buds for 300 Cal since I've never been good at sticking to the staying hungry part! I should hunt down some of the refrigerated jello puddings (about 60 Cal) that I used to use for late night snacks... 4 puddings with some cereal under 300 Cal... PAV in the danish butter cookies tin 900-1200 Cal... hmm... I know which one makes more sense!!!2 -
Totally agree. It’s not the meals that cause the problem but the snacks. However, lately I am only eating the third meal because I “supposed to”. Often it’s been a chore to even make the meal. And I’m not all that hungry at dinner time.
Because breakfast and lunch are fairly substantial, I use the leftover calories for grazing. It’s not necessarily sweets or candy or even junk. Maybe some cheese, a few crackers, bit of turkey, cereal, or low fat ice cream. Small amounts over several hours rather than all at once. All get weighed, measured and logged in.
Today was half a cup of low fat ice cream followed later by some granola. Don’t feel hungry or have the urge to keep eating.1 -
I get that....I'm counting it a victory when I opt for the puddings. Eating all four puddings usually feels like a good indulgence - and they come in light. For whatever freakin' reason - I've been forgetting those babies.
Tomorrow, belly -you are getting pudding cups.3 -
This morning - before I got up - I was trying to come to terms (again) with how badly I've run off the track. Trying to be gentle and not get all extreme - which maybe works half the time - but not at this point.
I seem to need some kind of super control focus - the very idea of "maintenance" just feels too loose? I know it doesn't have to be - but that is what it means to my hamsters it seems.
So I'm going to try to not worry so much about the calories, but micro-manage things via the macros. Give my hamsters a challenge to gnaw on. Maybe then they will leave me alone on the constant eating front.
Protein will be my aim. Lots and lots of protein. Maybe I'll finally feel "full" or "satisfied" or "not inclined to eat for the next few hours."
Less carbs - I really wish there was a way to tell MFP to not tally the fruit/veggie carbs. I'm not worried about those. I guess I can do that manually. Gotta work on that one (get to it bored overeating hamsters)
I was thinking that maybe I'll add a high potassium number to my goal too. Usually that just means lots of veggies. And then I remembered that prepping anything is still a problem. Maybe I'll add that next week? The week after? Next month? Whenever choppy choppy / trimmy trimmy becomes a reality again?
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@Bella_Figura
I’ve been around WL message boards quite awhile and yours is the most insightful discussion of hunger I think I’ve seen. .
I’m maintaining. What I recall about hunger in losing mode is that a lot depended on my ability to deal with hunger as it’s own issue. The first thing I noticed was my self talk.
I quit telling myself I was starving when I was hungry. It wasn’t true. That was an emotional over reaction. It seemed that it got down to 2 things. I could be hungry, or sometimes uncomfortably hungry. But I wasn’t staving. My life was not at stake. This freak out starving thought had a roll in keeping me fat. Kinda funny when I thought about it.
It helped a lot to keep in mind that any hunger I did experience was only temporary. And also that it was within my control. I rarely went anywhere without a snack, usually an apple or snack bar. But if and when to eat it was a choice I was making. The exception was the 1 hr commute after work. I got out past the office vending machines to the car. My plan friendly snack was at home. I made sure that I considered the snack good enough to wait for. But in the meantime I was going to to be hungry. I told myself that hunger was what losing weight felt like. That seemed to help.
It helped that I became a volume eater. It also helped that I was on Weight Watchers. When I started veggies were 0 WW points, but fruit was not. But I could load up on veggies and I did. I started making a point of looking at my meals before eating and saying to myself something like “This is a lot of food.” (it was.) it also helped that I ate pretty much on a schedule designed to keep hunger in check. I had 3 regular meals and 3 snacks. Sometimes 4 snacks depending on the day. I try to avoid situations that depended hard no willpower in favor of delay. It helped to know what I was eating next and when. It helped that I planned meals and snacks that I found appealing and satisfying. I wasn’t going to make it through my commute to get home to eat carrot sticks.
A couple of other things- I maintain by sticking with a couple of things. I don’t keep a food diary all the time. But I go back to it as needed. Yesterday I started again after gaining 3 lbs over my red line. But even if not tracking I always know about how many calories I’m eating. And I still use my food scale every day to control portions. I still eat 3 meals and 3 snacks at regular times.
Last. I notice that it helps to eat enough fat. I sometimes go too far out on the low fat limb and end up with this agitated never satisfied feeling. Sometimes if I’m having a day when I just don’t feel satisfied I’ll bite the bullet and spend the calories on a bowl of oatmeal. Usually does the trick.
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lauriekallis wrote: »I was thinking that maybe I'll add a high potassium number to my goal too. Usually that just means lots of veggies. And then I remembered that prepping anything is still a problem. Maybe I'll add that next week? The week after? Next month? Whenever choppy choppy / trimmy trimmy becomes a reality again?
Wish I lived near so I could come and help you!
At least for me, it is going to be about baby steps. Take a step, incorporate it, let it become second nature, and then add another step. Doing it all at once is a great way for me to just fall back into old habits because even one mistake feels like a huge failure. Like a row of dominos being pushed over.
I had been doing really well with paying attention to how I am feeling hunger wise and only eating when I am actually hungry. Fell off that wagon for a bit the last few days (stress and anxiety) so going to focus on that again. Then back to meal planning and making sure I am adding more produce to my diet. Somehow I ended up with a week of vegetarian meals this week (minus last night because I had some chicken korma to finish up from the weekend... but I also had Aloo Gobi instead of another meat based dish and LOVED LOVED LOVED it).
I did set up my goals on here again. I won't be trying to track until after the new year because my anxiety and stress levels will be high enough. I would love to take off even a small amount of weight before my Disney trip next December. My therapist helped me set it up (she also does eating disorder therapy though I see her for my anxiety and depression). So fingers crossed I guess?2 -
Some folks would consider it a tad foolish to experiment with a whole new way of eating in just the my first week of maintenance.
However, playing it safe is for wimps.
My high fibre diet seems to be having the opposite effect to the one it's supposed to have. For the past few months I've had no fewer than 40g (often closer to 60g) of fibre and at least 4 litres of fluid per day (of which 2+ litres is water). Hasn't made a jot of difference. Actually, that's not true. It's made a difference, but a deleterious one. I'm having more difficulty that ever with - ahem - clearing the backlog.
So it's time for a radical experiment. No fibre for 2 whole weeks. No fruit, veggies, whole grains, cereals, pulses etc. Certainly no Troo, or other fibre supplements.
Given that's 90% of the food I eat, it'll mean quite a departure from my usual diet.
If that makes a positive difference, I'll follow a very low fibre diet thereafter (ideally under 10g fibre per day).
Here's the science to back up the experiment:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435786/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15654804/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1433176/
The third study is particularly interesting. I seem to fit the profile of some of the study participants. My constipation problems started around adolescence. I had PCOS (multiple small cysts on both ovaries) as well as large ovarian cysts that necessitated the removal of both ovaries and one fallopian tube in my early 30s. I have Reynaud's syndrome, which means I have very cold hands...
...Interesting...
This paragraph was particularly interesting in the second paper...A diet poor in fiber should not be assumed to be the cause of chronic constipation. Some patients may be helped by a fiber-rich diet but many patients with more severe constipation get worse symptoms when increasing dietary fiber intake. There is no evidence that constipation can successfully be treated by increasing fluid intake unless there is evidence of dehydration.3 -
I trust you've read the links 'cause this puppy is currently too time constraint to do so. But as a cross-check... you're eating your MINIMUM of 0.35g of (healthy) fats per lb of Garfield, right? Cause them's necessary too for stuff to flow!1
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Yep, I’m averaging 0.6g fat per pound...1
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Wow... Contrary to popular beliefs for sure! Hope this works for you, Bella. I would so miss fruits and veggies... But not as much as I would miss regular BMs!2
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Even avoiding fruits and veggies for just two weeks is going to be incredibly difficult for me - they're my absolute favourite foods (even when I'm off-plan) and I can't imagine a diet without them.
My niece and sister have severe Crohn's and IBS respectively and are under medical orders to have a low fibre diet, and I always really pitied them being unable to eat frut and veggies. I can't imagine much things worse than a diet of bland white bread...how will I manage without nutty wholegrain bread, cereal, fruit, veggies and my beloved pulses? My diet is completely turned upside down!
I'm torn - I sort of want the experiment to work because it would be nice to have a solution to this lifelong problem....but on the other hand I'm hoping it doesn't work so that I'm not condemned to a lifetime of low fibre!2 -
I can see how you would be torn. And it seems really unfair that you would be fighting this when you're so active and eat such a "healthy" diet.
Any chance the backlog could be a reaction to something more specific that you're eating?
If successful, will you follow up this trial by trying to add foods back into your diet?
I just can't see you living in a white bread world either 🙂2 -
If it works, I'll increase my fibre gradually to see how far I can push it before things stop functioning again.
First thing I'd add back is veggies.
If I can eat veggies all is not lost.
I could live without fruit, wholegrains and pulses if I absolutely had to, but a world without veggies is unthinkable....
Re if the backlog could be a reaction to a particular food item....well, it could be. That would be a better result! My diet tends to be quite unvarying in that there's a heavy reliance on the same handful of foods that I eat almost every day (and have for the past couple of decades). I.e. veggies, whole grains, pulses, fruit. If I have an intolerance for one of those foods groups (or an individual grain, vegetable or fruit), it may take some detective work to figure out which is the culprit...
In terms of grains, I eat mainly wheat, rye, oats and barley. Not so much rice, quinoa, corn, millet or amaranth.
In terms of fruits and veggies, I eat the entire rainbow...but there's rarely a day goes by that I don't have onions, peppers and apples in some form or other...
So it could be that wheat, rye, oats, barley, onions, peppers or apples are the real culprit....4 -
Might have to rethink fiber overload too. Who knew? I need to look at those macros thingies more closely.3
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I've been reading about a FODMAP elimination process....it sounds challenging. I don't want to do it. I may not need to do it, as I don't have diagnosed IBS-C and I only have a few of the IBS-C symptoms and I've never been tested for IBS-C. You're advised to commence only under a dietician's supervision.
There's a little demon on my shoulder telling me it might be beneficial to explore...but there's a catch. Unless you go the whole hog and eliminate all FODMAP foods - then only gradually reintroduce, food-group by food-group - you don't know if you have a problem with FODMAPS or not. It's like being losing your virginity - there's no half-measures.
So either I do it properly or not at all...
Incidentally, some of the foods that are highest in FODMAPS are onions, garlic, cows' milk, Greek yoghurt, wheat products and all forms of pulses. I eat ALL of those foods EVERY DAY.
I can't imagine a diet that didn't contain onions and garlic. It's literally unimaginable to me - I put onions and garlic in practically everything savoury I eat!
Oh, and INULIN is very high in FODMAPS, which could explain why my constipation has worsened since starting on the TROO....
Dammit, I don't want to be intolerant of FODMAPS foods!
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My husband has just told me to pretend I've never heard of FODMAPS and carry on regardless. Ignorance is bliss.
There's a reason I love that man!
I think this is good advice...4 -
I think him and Norman should be listened to! 🤣😹2
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Agreed!3
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Love the sound of your husband, Bella!
Did things get worse - as in shifted into intolerable - with the troo? Imagine if you could just give up that? (I'm a forever optimist)3 -
It's not intolerable - either with the Troo or without it - just tiresome. I've had enough of tackling the symptoms; I've decided it's time to try to get to the bottom (
) of the issue and resolve it once and for all. 3 -
Contrary as it may be to things I've heard in the past, wasn't one of your links suggesting that you can just use pills to manage without major detriments?1
