suicide: do we have a right to death?
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This exactly! I had the same experience with my grandmother. At 99 years of age, she broke both hips and ended up with double pneumonia and congestive heart failure in the hospital. She was begging the doctors to end her life for 3 months, but they couldn't. As her medical power of attorney, I finally chose to remove her fluid IV (which was the only thing sustaining her since she wasn't eating), and let her die of dehydration (this took 3 grueling weeks). It would have been so much more humane to give her an overdose of painkillers.
This puzzles me as well. Why is it alright to remove the thing sustaining life, and allow someone to suffer until they eventually 'die naturally', but not alright to give that same person a humane, dignified and painless death through medical intervention?
I agree with this. I'm a social worker with over 65s and see daily the physical and mental conditions that may lie ahead. I think the decision has to be made in sound mind of course, and to protect ourselves, advanced directives are the way forward for our families/friends/us. Then we know what we/our loved ones want and can uphold their wishes. Again this should be done by us all: what if we're in an accident and paralysed/brain damaged? It's not only the quality of my life, but I'd worry about being a burden on others. And here in the UK if I WANT to die if something were to happen, insurance isn't an issue, so the state pays to 'keep you well' in nursing care or whatever. At huge financial cost and against my wishes?
There is an argument...from the moment we're born we're all terminal and are all going to die of something and at some point, so I feel, as many have said, it's my mody and my choice. If I'm in sound mind. And I know the argument is potentially as we're hard-wired to stay alive, are we of sound mind if we're suicidal? I think if I tell someone I'm suicidal, they should try to help. If I haven't succeeded in ending it, offer me help. But basically if you're hell-bent on it, you'll find a way. It's those who're dependent on others that I feel for most as I think many would wish this, and their families would wish to help, but can't.0 -
Didn't we just have this discussion last week?
Oh well, pardon me for recycling, but I am going to re-post my comment from that thread to share my recent personal experience:As an interesting aside to the discussion, I recently witnessed this process first hand. An elderly relative fell, broke a hip, and developed pneumonia--the grim reaper trifecta. The relative still lived alone (triple digits here) and was of reasonably sound mind and health for the age.
But at that age, this particular strain of pneumonia was incurable. After being informed of this and of what the process of dying of pneumonia would be like, the relative stated that " I just want to go to sleep". As lung function started to decline, the morphine was increased--knowing this would depress the breathing further. At the same time, the oxygen was also decreased. Even with this, the relative hung on for a couple of days. Finally, the full oxygen mask was removed and the end followed within the hour.
Obviously, the doctors and nurses knew how to do this. I suppose it technically wasn't "physician assisted suicide", but they definitely greased the slide, so to speak.
Again, I don't see how anyone could consider this "devaluing life". It was bad enough as it was on the immediate family to endure this for a week or so.0 -
I totally agree that people should be able to end their lives (and it be assisted) when they chose not to live anymore.
As for depressed people ending their lives, I'm still unsure. I went through a depression, and at some points I would think to myself "If I don't wake up tomorrow morning, I wouldn't really mind..." but I would never do anything to end my own life. Maybe it's the fact that I'm squeamish and I know that I would hate having to do that myself, or because of my religion. But as much as I wanted to die at some points, I had something driving me to keep going. I don't think that applies to everybody with depression, though.0 -
Didn't we just have this discussion last week?
Oh well, pardon me for recycling, but I am going to re-post my comment from that thread to share my recent personal experience:As an interesting aside to the discussion, I recently witnessed this process first hand. An elderly relative fell, broke a hip, and developed pneumonia--the grim reaper trifecta. The relative still lived alone (triple digits here) and was of reasonably sound mind and health for the age.
But at that age, this particular strain of pneumonia was incurable. After being informed of this and of what the process of dying of pneumonia would be like, the relative stated that " I just want to go to sleep". As lung function started to decline, the morphine was increased--knowing this would depress the breathing further. At the same time, the oxygen was also decreased. Even with this, the relative hung on for a couple of days. Finally, the full oxygen mask was removed and the end followed within the hour.
Obviously, the doctors and nurses knew how to do this. I suppose it technically wasn't "physician assisted suicide", but they definitely greased the slide, so to speak.
Again, I don't see how anyone could consider this "devaluing life". It was bad enough as it was on the immediate family to endure this for a week or so.
I believe I was the person who posted the topic you were talking about here, in fact, it was even called "The Right To Death." Maybe I should sue somebody for copyright infringement! :laugh:0 -
In cases where someone is so ill that they can't enjoy any quality of life, of course they should be allowed to end it.
For depression suicide, no, the suicidal thoughts are a symptom of a mental disease that can be cured, they are not of sound mind to decide they want to kill themselves.
There's all this talk of abuse yada yada, but there would be a complicated process and paperwork and mental health evaluations, it wouldn't be a case of "Granny's getting too expensive, let's drop her off at the suicide clinic!"
If someone is that determined to murder granny, they'll do it assisted suicide or no assisted suicide.
One of the most stupid arguments I've heard is that old people will kill themselves if they feel they're a burden to their family, cmon, people are pretty selfish, I really doubt this would happen - and if it did, there would be other factors involved such as mental illness or decreased quality in life due to the effects of illness or old age.
Doctors are meant to save lives yes, but you could argue it's not really life if there is no quality to it. And they don't have to administer the deadly dose themselves, family or friends could do the final part.
as for religion, one could argue that terminal patients/barely conscious bed bound patients have already had their death sentence handed out by god, and are merely speeding it up. And if you've been struck with a horrible disease or illness or accident that puts you in constant pain and really reduces your quality of life, then one could be forgiven for saying f**k god, I'm out!
And finally, for the religious argument, fine if you believe that life is precious and you're going to hell if you kill yourself - don't get an assisted suicide! But for people don't believe the same, why does it matter what your view is?0 -
If one genuinely has the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, one should be allowed to end one's life if it has become so unbearable due to illness, old age, and/or depression. Assisted suicide should be legal for the terminally ill. I'm not sure about assisted suicide for the elderly or depressed. I think there are many options that can be considered for improving their lives, especially the depressed.
Here's the thing about morality: It's subjective. Here's the thing about America: It's secular.
Personally, I think it's the morally righteous thing to do to end the suffering of a wounded animal in the woods, just as I think it's the morally righteous thing to do to pull the plug on someone ill for whom there is no cure. The right to death doesn't mean that this will lead to state mandated euthanasia, it's just an option that should be available to the one considering suicide and their family and friends. If you don't want to consider suicide because you think it is a moral wrong due to your religion, than don't commit suicide, even if you are stricken with an incurable illness. But if the option to pull the plug on someone may rest in your hands one day, I can only ask that you consider whether they may disagree with your views and if death would be an improvement for them. That's all.0 -
I would never consider suicide unless something happened where I wouldn't be able to care for myself and I would be a burden on my family.
In that scenario, I would consider suicide. Don't really care what the world thinks about that. If some government entity decided that I shouldn't be able to and tried to intervene, go ahead and arrest my dead body.0 -
I don't know.....for terminally ill patients....its one thing....but for people who just want to do cuz they want to absolutely NO...Cuz there are reasons why people want to die...I.E depression. You could get help for that......I don't want to my tax money going to someone that needs help to kill themselves.
Tough subject....I would say NO for just anyone.....undecided about terminally ill patients. I believe we should all fight for life but when you are dying.....I just don't know. I personally don't believe in suicide period. But if other dying people do to ease their pain...that's their decision. But I still don't really think that tax payers should pay for it.
This is my stance as well.0 -
I think for terminally ill people or people who are in sooo much pain and will never get better have the right to choose to end their lives.
I watched my boyfriend's mother slowly waste away and suffer for the last years of her life, the last few months she was constantly in and out of hospitals and constantly in pain and there was absolutely no hope of her getting better. It was like playing the waiting game for her to die because we all knew that's how it would end. People like that should have the right to choose to end their lives if that's what they want instead of being forced to suffer.
However, if you're just depressed and suicidal that's a whole different matter. I think it should only be legal if you're going to die soon anyway and you're suffering because I would rather somebody die while they're still somewhat healthy then have to suffer for the last of their life. it's no fun for them OR for their family to watch them suffer.
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I think for terminally ill people or people who are in sooo much pain and will never get better have the right to choose to end their lives.
I watched my boyfriend's mother slowly waste away and suffer for the last years of her life, the last few months she was constantly in and out of hospitals and constantly in pain and there was absolutely no hope of her getting better. It was like playing the waiting game for her to die because we all knew that's how it would end. People like that should have the right to choose to end their lives if that's what they want instead of being forced to suffer.
However, if you're just depressed and suicidal that's a whole different matter. I think it should only be legal if you're going to die soon anyway and you're suffering because I would rather somebody die while they're still somewhat healthy then have to suffer for the last of their life. it's no fun for them OR for their family to watch them suffer.
For people who are suffering so badly from depression, etc., their existence is suffering. Just because it isn't "as hard to watch" as people with cancer, etc. doesn't mean they are suffering any less.0 -
I think for terminally ill people or people who are in sooo much pain and will never get better have the right to choose to end their lives.
I watched my boyfriend's mother slowly waste away and suffer for the last years of her life, the last few months she was constantly in and out of hospitals and constantly in pain and there was absolutely no hope of her getting better. It was like playing the waiting game for her to die because we all knew that's how it would end. People like that should have the right to choose to end their lives if that's what they want instead of being forced to suffer.
However, if you're just depressed and suicidal that's a whole different matter. I think it should only be legal if you're going to die soon anyway and you're suffering because I would rather somebody die while they're still somewhat healthy then have to suffer for the last of their life. it's no fun for them OR for their family to watch them suffer.
For people who are suffering so badly from depression, etc., their existence is suffering. Just because it isn't "as hard to watch" as people with cancer, etc. doesn't mean they are suffering any less.
I guess I should've specificied... I meant actual PHYSICAL suffering. I've been depressed and suicidal before. I know what that's like. I still think that's a whole different matter and should NOT be legalized. If that's the case, you have a chance to turn things around and to find a way to get over the depression but if somebody is physically suffering and dying then there is no chance of getting better and they should be allowed to end their life a bit sooner.0 -
I guess I should've specificied... I meant actual PHYSICAL suffering. I've been depressed and suicidal before. I know what that's like. I still think that's a whole different matter and should NOT be legalized. If that's the case, you have a chance to turn things around and to find a way to get over the depression but if somebody is physically suffering and dying then there is no chance of getting better and they should be allowed to end their life a bit sooner.
I agree, I have been depressed and suicidal before and looking back now, am very happy I did not attempt or succeed. People can recover from depression and live happy lives.0 -
I agree, I have been depressed and suicidal before and looking back now, am very happy I did not attempt or succeed. People can recover from depression and live happy lives.
Sure, but that's kind of like saying that people can recover from cancer. Sure they can - but what about those who seek help and are never really cured? Is it really fair to say that it is illegal for them to end their suffering?0 -
As morbid as it may sound...if someone, for whatever reason, really honestly just no longer has a desire to live...maybe not even depressed, just does not want to go on living anymore for whatever reason, who are we to tell them that they MUST live?0
