Trayvon and the media
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Oh **** Trayvons dead? WTF I dont know that!!!!!!!1111!!!1!
At least im not making blatant assumptions and sentencing a man before a trial.
You are. You are supporting the shooter without "all the facts". Precisely what you're taking everyone else to task for.Does George Zimmerman have a history of crime with a weapon? All I can find is resisting arrest and domestic dispute where he refused to leave a property of a Girlfriend. He really sounds like a cold blooded killer.
That's a lot more of a criminal history than the boy he killed.Im not denying that zimmerman had a gun and that trayvon was shot all Im saying is this Witch hunt and judging him as a cold blooded murder is jumping pretty damn far. The absolute worst you can charge him with at this point is involuntary manslaughter.
A little less of your bleeding heart emotional rhetoric BrettPGH and a little more factual evidence. Just because you cant think with a clear mind doesn't mean this other man needs to die for murder.
How is it jumping damn far? Involuntary manslaughter? He shot and killed the kid. Not an accident. He drew his weapon and fired with intent. He didn't accidentally hit him with his car while he was drinking. THAT'S involuntary manslaughter. Pulling a gun out and shooting someone is murder. Zimmerman's only chance is a claim of self defense. Which is rendered all but impossible since he ignored a police order (they don't just suggest things as a friendly tip, he was told not to pursue Trayvon because police do not want the exact sort of vigilante activity that occurred that night), was armed while his victim was not and showed zero signs of being in a struggle. He was not hurt, not injured. Just him, his gun and a dead kid with nothing but candy on him on his way to a sleep over.
Those are the facts. What you're relying on is ephemeral speculation, "We can't know for sure.." We know enough for a conviction.
But by all means, if there IS evidence exhonerating Zimmerman let's hear it!
Also the personal attacks noted as poor debate form. But it's nothing I can't handle. Feel free to do your worst.0 -
Fact:He wasn't advised to stay in his car.
Transcript:
911 dispatcher:
Are you following him? [2:24]
Zimmerman:
Yeah. [2:25]
911 dispatcher:
OK.
We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]
Zimmerman:
OK. [2:28]
This is a contradiction here. No, Zimmerman was not advised to stay in his car, but he WAS advised to NOT FOLLOW Martin.
No they said we dont need you to do that. That doesnt mean stay in the car to me that suggests an option.
Fine. It's an option. It was still his choice to chase down the person he thought to be suspicious. Who does that? Who says "oh that person looks suspicious, I better call the police, but I'm still going to chase them down and put my own life in danger" instead of waiting for help from the people who are trained to handle this type of situation. It can be argued that the 911 operator left him with a choice. I'll grant that. But the fact of the matter remains that Zimmerman made the choice to pursue the kid, chased him down, and in the end shot and killed him. I can't go with "self-defense" when Zimmerman could have avoided the situation all together. Just as Trayvon was trying to do when he ran.0 -
He actually mentioned in the 911 call 2x that the suspect has something in his hand. Its clear from that that George has to assume that he might be armed. Just as any other police officer would do the same.
George Zimmerman =/= police officer. He has no place acting as one.
The reason for that is because police officers have training that teaches them "Just because someone is holding something doesn't mean it's a gun." Apparently you can't trust the public to be that wise.
He was acting in his volunteer capacity has neighborhood watch captain/leader. I know that official neighborhood watch programs disapprove of the things George did but that is not the case. Its was not a registered group. Regardless Just because he was operating outside of protocol and he followed him. DOES NOT make him a cold blooded murderer.0 -
I really wish people would stop referring to Trayvon as a kid! He wasn't a child, he was 17, months away from being able to vote. Not to mention in size, much larger than the man who shot him. If indeed evidence proves that yravon was beating the crap out of Zimmerman when he was shot will you all chagne you minds about him being murdered in "cold blood'?
Now as stated before, evidence will prove where the gun was when it was fired and show who was struggling with who. Some reports are saying that Trayvon was on top of and beating Zimmerman. Evidence and balistics will prove that in time.
I think it is sick that Zimmerman has been hung with no trial. He is in hiding for hi slife, cannot see his family and has groups such as the black panthers with a price tag on his head.
What happened to innocent until proven guilty?0 -
I really wish people would stop referring to Trayvon as a kid! He wasn't a child, he was 17, months away from being able to vote. Not to mention in size, much larger than the man who shot him. If indeed evidence proves that yravon was beating the crap out of Zimmerman when he was shot will you all chagne you minds about him being murdered in "cold blood'?
He's a kid. Being close to 18 doesn't change things. I can't really tell the court "Your honor she was CLOSE to 18!"
Also Zimmerman had about 100lbs on Trayvon. Travyon's nickname was Slimm because he was so scrawny.Now as stated before, evidence will prove where the gun was when it was fired and show who was struggling with who. Some reports are saying that Trayvon was on top of and beating Zimmerman. Evidence and balistics will prove that in time.
I think it is sick that Zimmerman has been hung with no trial. He is in hiding for hi slife, cannot see his family and has groups such as the black panthers with a price tag on his head.
What happened to guilty until proven innocent?
Other way around but yes in the eyes of the court Mr. Zimmerman is absolutely innocent until proven guilty. The court of public opinion is another matter, and that's all this little debate is.0 -
He was acting in his volunteer capacity has neighborhood watch captain/leader. I know that official neighborhood watch programs disapprove of the things George did but that is not the case. Its was not a registered group. Regardless Just because he was operating outside of protocol and he followed him. DOES NOT make him a cold blooded murderer.
A neighborhood watch leader has all the legal authority of a mall cop, that is to say, none whatsoever. He wants to walk around the neighborhood to feel like a big man, fine. It does not make him any sort of authority. No one has to answer to him or respect the non-existent authority he feels he has. He is a citizen, same as you, me and Trayvon.
We have police for a reason. They are trained for this sort of thing. Having the neighborhood dads pick up their pistols and stroll around looking for signs of trouble is what you don't want and for precisely the reason this case highlights.
You are correct, just because he ignored police warnings does not make him a cold blooded murderer. The body of the kid he shot does that.0 -
As with the innocent until proven guilty theroy it went to the same place due process went. The police did not follow procedure with this case and it came back to bite them.0
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http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager
According to the Orlando Sentinel, Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman beating him. If this is true, then self-defense would be justified.0 -
Oh **** Trayvons dead? WTF I dont know that!!!!!!!1111!!!1!
At least im not making blatant assumptions and sentencing a man before a trial.
You are. You are supporting the shooter without "all the facts". Precisely what you're taking everyone else to task for.Does George Zimmerman have a history of crime with a weapon? All I can find is resisting arrest and domestic dispute where he refused to leave a property of a Girlfriend. He really sounds like a cold blooded killer.
That's a lot more of a criminal history than the boy he killed.Im not denying that zimmerman had a gun and that trayvon was shot all Im saying is this Witch hunt and judging him as a cold blooded murder is jumping pretty damn far. The absolute worst you can charge him with at this point is involuntary manslaughter.
A little less of your bleeding heart emotional rhetoric BrettPGH and a little more factual evidence. Just because you cant think with a clear mind doesn't mean this other man needs to die for murder.
How is it jumping damn far? Involuntary manslaughter? He shot and killed the kid. Not an accident. He drew his weapon and fired with intent. He didn't accidentally hit him with his car while he was drinking. THAT'S involuntary manslaughter. Pulling a gun out and shooting someone is murder. Zimmerman's only chance is a claim of self defense. Which is rendered all but impossible since he ignored a police order (they don't just suggest things as a friendly tip, he was told not to pursue Trayvon because police do not want the exact sort of vigilante activity that occurred that night), was armed while his victim was not and showed zero signs of being in a struggle. He was not hurt, not injured. Just him, his gun and a dead kid with nothing but candy on him on his way to a sleep over.
Those are the facts. What you're relying on is ephemeral speculation, "We can't know for sure.." We know enough for a conviction.
But by all means, if there IS evidence exhonerating Zimmerman let's hear it!
Also the personal attacks noted as poor debate form. But it's nothing I can't handle. Feel free to do your worst.
Oh Im sorry Im doing what our country was based on Not sentencing a man before he is tried....you all have his neck in a noose already and your yanking on the trap door lever. Of course Im supporting him you dont sentence a person before they have a trial. Im not making blanket assumptions like you though Brett
So any criminal history makes them capable of murder...your not even remotely using common sense.How is it jumping damn far? Involuntary manslaughter? He shot and killed the kid. Not an accident. He drew his weapon and fired with intent. He didn't accidentally hit him with his car while he was drinking. THAT'S involuntary manslaughter. Pulling a gun out and shooting someone is murder. Zimmerman's only chance is a claim of self defense. Which is rendered all but impossible since he ignored a police order (they don't just suggest things as a friendly tip, he was told not to pursue Trayvon because police do not want the exact sort of vigilante activity that occurred that night), was armed while his victim was not and showed zero signs of being in a struggle. He was not hurt, not injured. Just him, his gun and a dead kid with nothing but candy on him on his way to a sleep over.
Wait you saw it happen. I didn't know you were a witness. We dont know who drew the weapon or who pulled the trigger. More assumptions on your part. He was not told not to pursue. as Ive clearly proven with a copy of the transcript.
Actually the reports Ive read from the Police show injuries to the back of Zimmerman head as well as grass stains on his back and evident signs of a struggle from his clothing.
What personal attacks? Those are adjectives describing your behavior Bleeding heart, emotional, just in case you werent clear they describe things in this case your emotional filled debate replies.
Making absolute false statements over and over again is also considered bad form. Please take note.0 -
Other way around but yes in the eyes of the court Mr. Zimmerman is absolutely innocent until proven guilty. The court of public opinion is another matter, and that's all this little debate is.
So just to be clear you are proud of this? You are proud of the fact that you can incite hate and promote false statements in hopes of ruining a mans life. With out due process or a proper investigation?
I just want to make sure Im understanding that...cause it really does explain a lot about your responses to so many other topics. You cant debate with some one who doesn't have common sense or doesn't use logical reasoning.0 -
We dont know who drew the weapon or who pulled the trigger. More assumptions on your part.
And with that I see little point in continuing. If you're going to warp reality to such an extent just to prove your point no debate can take place.
You accuse others of abusing facts and then insinuate that it's entirely possible that Trayvon took the gun from Zimmerman and shot himself with it.0 -
So just to be clear you are proud of this? You are proud of the fact that you can incite hate and promote false statements in hopes of ruining a mans life. With out due process or a proper investigation?
I just want to make sure Im understanding that...cause it really does explain a lot about your responses to so many other topics. You cant debate with some one who doesn't have common sense or doesn't use logical reasoning.
Incite hate? This is an internet debate on a weight loss forum. I certainly doubt anyone will be taking to the streets from what I've posted.
This is not the court of law. It's a forum for opinions on the case. You can relax. No one here will be hanging George Zimmerman.
And I agree. I really can't debate with someone who doesn't have common sense or use logical reasoning.0 -
So just to be clear you are proud of this? You are proud of the fact that you can incite hate and promote false statements in hopes of ruining a mans life. With out due process or a proper investigation?
I just want to make sure Im understanding that...cause it really does explain a lot about your responses to so many other topics. You cant debate with some one who doesn't have common sense or doesn't use logical reasoning.
Incite hate? This is an internet debate on a weight loss forum. I certainly doubt anyone will be taking to the streets from what I've posted.
This is not the court of law. It's a forum for opinions on the case. You can relax. No one here will be hanging George Zimmerman.
And I agree. I really can't debate with someone who doesn't have common sense or use logical reasoning.
This is what your promoting
http://www.local10.com/news/Police-Trayvon-protesters-ransack-store/-/1717324/9719674/-/xctonpz/-/index.html0 -
This is what your promoting
http://www.local10.com/news/Police-Trayvon-protesters-ransack-store/-/1717324/9719674/-/xctonpz/-/index.html
Clearly I'm not. After you prove Trayvon shot himself you can try to prove that I'm inciting riots. I'll suspect you'll be quite busy working on both of those assertions you've made.0 -
I really wish people would stop referring to Trayvon as a kid! He wasn't a child, he was 17, months away from being able to vote. Not to mention in size, much larger than the man who shot him. If indeed evidence proves that yravon was beating the crap out of Zimmerman when he was shot will you all chagne you minds about him being murdered in "cold blood'?
He's a kid. Being close to 18 doesn't change things. I can't really tell the court "Your honor she was CLOSE to 18!"
Also Zimmerman had about 100lbs on Trayvon. Travyon's nickname was Slimm because he was so scrawny.Now as stated before, evidence will prove where the gun was when it was fired and show who was struggling with who. Some reports are saying that Trayvon was on top of and beating Zimmerman. Evidence and balistics will prove that in time.
I think it is sick that Zimmerman has been hung with no trial. He is in hiding for hi slife, cannot see his family and has groups such as the black panthers with a price tag on his head.
What happened to guilty until proven innocent?
Other way around but yes in the eyes of the court Mr. Zimmerman is absolutely innocent until proven guilty. The court of public opinion is another matter, and that's all this little debate is.
But when a 17 year old commits an act, they are mature enough to be tried as adult. Hell, even 15 and 16 years olds are mature enough to be tried as adults.0 -
We dont know who drew the weapon or who pulled the trigger. More assumptions on your part.
And with that I see little point in continuing. If you're going to warp reality to such an extent just to prove your point no debate can take place.
You accuse others of abusing facts and then insinuate that it's entirely possible that Trayvon took the gun from Zimmerman and shot himself with it.
You dont know what happened neither do I, so stop narrowing the possibilities to only one thing. You are making yourself look bad. Im not abusing facts,I'm just leaving all possibilities open. Instead of pulling the noose a little tighter as you stir up the public with lies an inaccurate information0 -
You dont know what happened neither do I, so stop narrowing the possibilities to only one thing. You are making yourself look bad. Im not abusing facts,I'm just leaving all possibilities open. Instead of pulling the noose a little tighter as you stir up the public with lies an inaccurate information
You're right. ANYTHING could have happened. Sure there were only two of them and Zimmerman has admitted to shooting the boy, but don't let that get in the way! Ooh maybe bigfoot came out of the woods and pulled the trigger! Anything could happen right?
Really I have enough faith in the public and enough humility in my place in the world to know I'm not stirring up the public to do anything. A grand total of 8 people will probably read this. I'm sure the ensuing riots will quickly be contained. Hopefully by the authorities and not a neighborhood watch captain, I'd hate to have more deaths on my hands.0 -
How much damage could this kid have done? Zimmerman didn't need medical attention. He doesn't look beat up in his mug shot.
If this was your 17 year old walking home and some man twice his age was following or even 'watching' him while armed what would you think?
Usually when someone has to shoot in self defense they are in fear for their lives. No we don't no all of the facts but what was the kid going to do to him with a bag of skittles? Even if there was a physical fight I don't think you can 'elevate' the violence with the use of a weapon. Once you do you become the agressor. I can't remember what thats called....(any lawyers out there?)
If this young man were Asian or even green I would still feel the same way. We can't even protect our own kids from self-proclaimed 'Batman'. There is a reason we have law enforcement. If you feel it is not sufficient then make changes through political choices. Not gunning down 'suspicious' people in the street.0 -
This is like OJ all over again, the american public, compeletly fueled my media hysteria is jumping to conclusions based on skin color. No one knows what happened for sure. Witnesses say that Trayvon had Zimm on the ground and was beating the piss out of him. I think a clearer picture will emerge since it is probable that the FBI is doing a deconstruction of the audio that was recorded of the scuffle. MY thougts on it are this.
If indeed, Zimmerman approached Martin, asked him what he was doing, or even if he used a racial slur, he is guilty of nothing more than bad character and judgement. These are not punishable offenses under the law. If Zimmerman assaulted Trayvon initially, then he is responsible for murder because starting a fight, and escalating to deadly force in my book is murder.
If on the other hand all Ziimmerman did was ask the kid what he was doing, Trayvon had no right to punch him, kick him, or slam his head into the ground. In that case, I think you should be allowed to blow his head off.
Everything else is media fluff. Who cares if the kid had skittle and ice tea. And it's hilarious that when I heard the description about how some white guy killed a black kid on the radio, when I get home, I see the shooter to be a half white/ half Peruvian dude who looks like a mexican. The sensationalism of this is killing me. And now we have mobs of people on both sides defending both the shooter and the shootee based not on the facts, but on the emotional drama the media has forced on us.0 -
This is like OJ all over again, the american public, compeletly fueled my media hysteria is jumping to conclusions based on skin color.
I'll have you know I'm jumping to conclusions purely due to a lack of hard evidence and general crankiness! Not race!
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