Did This Dad Go Too Far?
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..but hey if you are all for his rights to life after he gets out of prison invite him over to live in your neighborhood.
Wait- I am pro-life and will always defend a person's right to life from conception until natural death. Please note that I said pedophiles should be locked away from society for the rest of their lives. I wouldn't want one in your neighborhood anymore than I'd want him in mine. There are some people that should be spending their lives in prison, and I will gladly py taxes to help do that.
I'm not saying this father should serve jail time. Like Evan (whose name isn't really Evan-ha!) said, there needs to be an investigation. I don't know that patting the man on his bck and asking to shake his hand after killing someone is appropriate, though. I'm sure the whole thing is weighing in him since he claims he didn't intend to kill the man.0 -
I am not surprised at all by this father's initial reaction. I probably would have done the same, not intending to kill someone but, I would beat the *kitten* out of him for sure!!0
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..but hey if you are all for his rights to life after he gets out of prison invite him over to live in your neighborhood.
Wait- I am pro-life and will always defend a person's right to life from conception until natural death. Please note that I said pedophiles should be locked away from society for the rest of their lives. I wouldn't want one in your neighborhood anymore than I'd want him in mine. There are some people that should be spending their lives in prison, and I will gladly py taxes to help do that.
I'm not saying this father should serve jail time. Like Evan (whose name isn't really Evan-ha!) said, there needs to be an investigation. I don't know that patting the man on his bck and asking to shake his hand after killing someone is appropriate, though. I'm sure the whole thing is weighing in him since he claims he didn't intend to kill the man.
I hold no religious or moral beliefs that would tie my hands or make me feel that death is a judgement we shouldn't be able to make and I see no point in wasting money and space to put all these people in prison for the rest of their lives (whether you realize it or not you are taking their lives by keeping them locked up you just aren't stopping their heart), it's not logical, most of them end up getting out eventually anyway no matter how long they are supposed to be locked up, prisons are too crowded, again I do not respect the lives and rights of these people after they have committed these heinous crimes. We don't keep rabid or predatory dogs locked up for the rest of their lives because we care too much to put them down. and yes I respect the life of an animal over the life of a pedophile, cold blooded murderer, rapist etc. One more note, I do not gladly pay taxes for this and if I could choose to let you pay mine I would.0 -
The quickest way to ensure your own liberties and safety against enraged fathers is not trying to **** their 3 year old daughters.0
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I hold no religious or moral beliefs that would tie my hands or make me feel that death is a judgement we shouldn't be able to make and I see no point in wasting money and space to put all these people in prison for the rest of their lives (whether you realize it or not you are taking their lives by keeping them locked up you just aren't stopping their heart),
I realize not everyone shares my moral stand on "right to life". I only mentioned it after you did to explain that just because I believe in rights to life, doesn't mean I want to invite every murderer and child molester to my neighborhood. That's similar to the pro-choice people making the nonsensical claim that because I'm against abortion, I should adopt or support all the babies that are aborted. And taking away someone's freedom Is NOT the same as ending their life.it's not logical, most of them end up getting out eventually anyway no matter how long they are supposed to be locked up, prisons are too crowded, again I do not respect the lives and rights of these people after they have committed these heinous crimes. We don't keep rabid or predatory dogs locked up for the rest of their lives because we care too much to put them down. and yes I respect the life of an animal over the life of a pedophile, cold blooded murderer, rapist etc. One more note, I do not gladly pay taxes for this and if I could choose to let you pay mine I would.
It is logical because we do have the ability to keep them locked up for life. This is not to suggest that they should be treated inhumane. Many of them cannot help it because it's a mental illness. Keeping them out of society does not equate to mistreating them. Pedophiles have an illness. While I think it's horrible they act on those urges, I don't think we should start killing people who have mental illnesses. I'm saddened for them, too. Their actions make me sick, but their lives do not.0 -
The quickest way to ensure your own liberties and safety against enraged fathers is not trying to **** their 3 year old daughters.
From what I understand, these people have mental illnesses and cannot control their urges. If I'm' wrong, please correct me. Just as the father was not thinking rationally when he beat the man to death, I don't know that the pedophile was thinking rationally when he molelsted a 4 year old. How could he be?0 -
From what I understand, these people have mental illnesses and cannot control their urges. If I'm' wrong, please correct me. Just as the father was not thinking rationally when he beat the man to death, I don't know that the pedophile was thinking rationally when he molelsted a 4 year old. How could he be?
And a dog with rabies, can't help it either, but I'm still going to take him out back and shoot him to insure the safety of my children.0 -
I think he over reacted. I think he should have calmly removed his child from harm, and immediately started counselling her while having someone else there contact the police.
Instead he subjected an already (probably) traumatised child to even more trauma by carrying out on act of extraordinary violence in front of her. And if, which is likely, she didn't think she had done anything wrong personally she certainly will now.
That poor kid.
I would be impressed to see any parent be "calm" in a situation like this. Seriously. Do you have children?
Yes, I have two grown children and three young grandchildren.
But, granted, none of us has ever lived within a violent environment which is why I'm feeling that witnessing her father kill someone would be traumatic.0 -
And a dog with rabies, can't help it either, but I'm still going to take him out back and shoot him to insure the safety of my children.
I do not consider the life of a dog equal to that of a human being.0 -
The quickest way to ensure your own liberties and safety against enraged fathers is not trying to **** their 3 year old daughters.
From what I understand, these people have mental illnesses and cannot control their urges. If I'm' wrong, please correct me. Just as the father was not thinking rationally when he beat the man to death, I don't know that the pedophile was thinking rationally when he molelsted a 4 year old. How could he be?
It's an intersting point that pedophiles might actually just be sick in the head being that they can't help that they are sexually attracted to children. But all human beings have urges that we do not act on. You might be right, maybe the perv couldn't help himself, but when you engage in risky behaviours, regardless of the driving force behind them, whether you are carjacking someone for drug money because you are an addict, robbing a house to pay off your gambling debts for your gambling addiction, or raping someones daughter, you risk your life breaking the law.0 -
And a dog with rabies, can't help it either, but I'm still going to take him out back and shoot him to insure the safety of my children.
I do not consider the life of a dog equal to that of a human being.
tough to look at someone who would do that to a child a human being.0 -
It's an intersting point that pedophiles might actually just be sick in the head being that they can't help that they are sexually attracted to children. But all human beings have urges that we do not act on. You might be right, maybe the perv couldn't help himself, but when you engage in risky behaviours, regardless of the driving force behind them, whether you are carjacking someone for drug money because you are an addict, robbing a house to pay off your gambling debts for your gambling addiction, or raping someones daughter, you risk your life breaking the law.
No doubt what he did was wrong, horrific, and against the law. I'm not suggesting we "excuse" his actions because he's mentally ill. I'm saying we don't kill people who are mentally ill and do something they cannot control. I do believe certain people are beyond rehabilitation and need to be locked up for life. Pedophiles among those.0 -
tough to look at someone who would do that to a child a human being.
A sick human being, but a human being. I think we can all agree that anyone who sexually molests children or gets off to child porn has an illness.0 -
It's an intersting point that pedophiles might actually just be sick in the head being that they can't help that they are sexually attracted to children. But all human beings have urges that we do not act on. You might be right, maybe the perv couldn't help himself, but when you engage in risky behaviours, regardless of the driving force behind them, whether you are carjacking someone for drug money because you are an addict, robbing a house to pay off your gambling debts for your gambling addiction, or raping someones daughter, you risk your life breaking the law.
No doubt what he did was wrong, horrific, and against the law. I'm not suggesting we "excuse" his actions because he's mentally ill. I'm saying we don't kill people who are mentally ill and do something they cannot control. I do believe certain people are beyond rehabilitation and need to be locked up for life. Pedophiles among those.
We are in agreement it seems. It is an unknown how much the mentally ill have in ways of impulse control, and I have never stated on here as others have I was glad he was dead and wanted to give the father a medal. But I do give him a pass because of the extreme emotional and psychological duress caused by witnessing what he did.0 -
We are in agreement it seems. It is an unknown how much the mentally ill have in ways of impulse control, and I have never stated on here as others have I was glad he was dead and wanted to give the father a medal. But I do give him a pass because of the extreme emotional and psychological duress caused by witnessing what he did.
Yup. We are in agreement.0 -
tough to look at someone who would do that to a child a human being.
A sick human being, but a human being. I think we can all agree that anyone who sexually molests children or gets off to child porn has an illness.
and that person knows he's got that illness, if that's what we're gonna call it. so it's on them to do something about it.
I'm probably too close to the issue to see things completely fair minded. and I accept that. but urges are an illness. acting on those urges and not doing anything to prevent acting upon those urges? that's where my less-than-human mindset clicks on.0 -
It's an intersting point that pedophiles might actually just be sick in the head being that they can't help that they are sexually attracted to children. But all human beings have urges that we do not act on. You might be right, maybe the perv couldn't help himself, but when you engage in risky behaviours, regardless of the driving force behind them, whether you are carjacking someone for drug money because you are an addict, robbing a house to pay off your gambling debts for your gambling addiction, or raping someones daughter, you risk your life breaking the law.
No doubt what he did was wrong, horrific, and against the law. I'm not suggesting we "excuse" his actions because he's mentally ill. I'm saying we don't kill people who are mentally ill and do something they cannot control. I do believe certain people are beyond rehabilitation and need to be locked up for life. Pedophiles among those.
We are in agreement it seems. It is an unknown how much the mentally ill have in ways of impulse control, and I have never stated on here as others have I was glad he was dead and wanted to give the father a medal. But I do give him a pass because of the extreme emotional and psychological duress caused by witnessing what he did.
If he has no impulse control, then he would have been molesting children on the street. That argument is silly. Pedophiles go to great lengths to hide what they're doing. If that man knew someone would walk in and catch him, he would have had enough impulse control not to do it. So why does he get some kind of pass?
If you can control yourself when others are watching, you can control yourself when they aren't. He chose to act on his impulse and he had to take the consequences of his actions.
One could argue that the father also acted on impulse, but the difference is the pedo's impulse was to harm an innocent child and the father's was to protect her from that harm. Had the pedo not done what he did, the father wouldn't have hit him even once and the guy would be alive.0 -
Given my mood this morning, this is almost like therapy. So I will indulge myself before the bosses come in and I have to go back to work.
Each one of these cases has different circumstances, so I don't think you can have one blanket response for all situations. I don't believe in congratulating people for or excusing vigilante justice (no matter how emotioning satisfying it is to see it on TV and movies), but I don't think that applies here.
I also disagree with those who feel that it is possible to engage in calm, reasoned deliberation about one's actions in a situation like this and to apply carefully calibrated levels of force.
In a situation like this, where one comes upon a serious assault against one's child talking place, or when one is accosted in a potentially life-threatening situation on the street, my primary response would be to interrupt the assault and to disable the attacker and prevent him (or her) from being able to cause me or my relative further harm.
I see saw serious limitations in the "shove him away and run" choice of action. You have no idea of the guys's physical strength, speed, whether he has a weapon, etc. So my first goal would be to stop and disable him--and I would leave myself a very large margin of safety. If that means I have to hit someone three times, or hit them with a brick, or twist their head, or whatever---so be it.
From my understanding, this happened in a matter of seconds. There was no premeditation--again, from my understanding he was not trying to "punish" the man. So I don't think it is reasonable to expect someone to stop after hitting someone in the head once, assess his condition, ponder the legal and moral ramifications, and then decide whether or not to hit him again. Again, in that situation, I think it would be reasonable to hit the guy as many times as you felt necessary to disable him so that you could tend to your daughter without worrying about the guy getting up and attacking you.
In the absence of evidence of premeditation, I think the benefit of the doubt goes to the victim, not the perpetrator. In general, my feelings are more in line with patti's and adrian, except I think I disagree somewhat with patti and that I don't think you can expect someone to be that restrained in a case like this.0 -
And a dog with rabies, can't help it either, but I'm still going to take him out back and shoot him to insure the safety of my children.
I do not consider the life of a dog equal to that of a human being.
I do not consider the life of a child molester equal to that of a child.0 -
It's an intersting point that pedophiles might actually just be sick in the head being that they can't help that they are sexually attracted to children. But all human beings have urges that we do not act on. You might be right, maybe the perv couldn't help himself, but when you engage in risky behaviours, regardless of the driving force behind them, whether you are carjacking someone for drug money because you are an addict, robbing a house to pay off your gambling debts for your gambling addiction, or raping someones daughter, you risk your life breaking the law.
No doubt what he did was wrong, horrific, and against the law. I'm not suggesting we "excuse" his actions because he's mentally ill. I'm saying we don't kill people who are mentally ill and do something they cannot control. I do believe certain people are beyond rehabilitation and need to be locked up for life. Pedophiles among those.
I absolutely agree with this statement.0 -
I hold no religious or moral beliefs that would tie my hands or make me feel that death is a judgement we shouldn't be able to make and I see no point in wasting money and space to put all these people in prison for the rest of their lives (whether you realize it or not you are taking their lives by keeping them locked up you just aren't stopping their heart),
I realize not everyone shares my moral stand on "right to life". I only mentioned it after you did to explain that just because I believe in rights to life, doesn't mean I want to invite every murderer and child molester to my neighborhood. That's similar to the pro-choice people making the nonsensical claim that because I'm against abortion, I should adopt or support all the babies that are aborted. And taking away someone's freedom Is NOT the same as ending their life.it's not logical, most of them end up getting out eventually anyway no matter how long they are supposed to be locked up, prisons are too crowded, again I do not respect the lives and rights of these people after they have committed these heinous crimes. We don't keep rabid or predatory dogs locked up for the rest of their lives because we care too much to put them down. and yes I respect the life of an animal over the life of a pedophile, cold blooded murderer, rapist etc. One more note, I do not gladly pay taxes for this and if I could choose to let you pay mine I would.
It is logical because we do have the ability to keep them locked up for life. This is not to suggest that they should be treated inhumane. Many of them cannot help it because it's a mental illness. Keeping them out of society does not equate to mistreating them. Pedophiles have an illness. While I think it's horrible they act on those urges, I don't think we should start killing people who have mental illnesses. I'm saddened for them, too. Their actions make me sick, but their lives do not.
Mental illness(pedophilia) or not they should be held accountable for their actions, problem is we take away accountability and make excuses for them, awww but they can't help it. Thing is I don't care if they can help it or not, it's about their actions and the lives they destroy. To ensure this doesn't happen destroy them. The world isn't a pretty place.
They have to live somewhere when they get out on good behavior because the prisons are too crowded, this happens A LOT. So yea we have the ability to lock them up for life but reality is we don't. Check your sex offender registry if you want reassurance on that. It's unfortunate that they have this particular mental illness but for all parties involved they are better off dead. Neutralize the threat, and ensure it never happens again. But like I said before I do not prize their lives over an animals life at this point and we put down animals that are beyond help, because we can't afford to keep them all locked up in pounds for the rest of their lives, and we sure as hell don't want them in our neighborhoods. Humans do not deserve to be put up on a pedestal just because we have higher brain functions, in fact we should be held more accountable for our actions because of this. I am sorry but I am just not a bleeding heart. The most humane thing to do ............put them out of their mental suffering since they have this horrible mental illness that afflicts them so much, and keep everyone else out of danger.0 -
I do not consider the life of a child molester equal to that of a child.
All human life has value. The mentally ill included.0 -
Mental illness(pedophilia) or not they should be held accountable for their actions, problem is we take away accountability and make excuses for them, awww but they can't help it. Thing is I don't care if they can help it or not, it's about their actions and the lives they destroy. To ensure this doesn't happen destroy them. The world isn't a pretty place.
I don't think we "make excuses" for them. Excuses don't explain and explanations don't excuse. Mental illness is an explanation of why people behave the way they do. No one here is suggesting a slap on the wrist.0 -
Mental illness(pedophilia) or not they should be held accountable for their actions, problem is we take away accountability and make excuses for them, awww but they can't help it. Thing is I don't care if they can help it or not, it's about their actions and the lives they destroy. To ensure this doesn't happen destroy them. The world isn't a pretty place.
I don't think we "make excuses" for them. Excuses don't explain and explanations don't excuse. Mental illness is an explanation of why people behave the way they do. No one here is suggesting a slap on the wrist.
No what is being suggested is locking them away for the rest of their lives while we pay for it day after day year after year more and more pedophiles overcrowding with no place to put them as they sit and do absolutely nothing but wait to die or wait to get out and do it again. Either way we are the ones that lose. My suggestion is shortening that time period of them waiting to die and ensuring they never get out because of prison overcrowding and good behavior which in turn costs us less money and ensures the safety of our children and a better society developing out of that because the pedo's that are on the cusp and have some control will try to seek help instead of giving in to their carnal urges because of the seriousness of the consequences. It might not be many but I am sure there are some out there that would think twice and the others well it obvious they are beyond help if they would risk their lives to do it which goes back to my belief about what we do with animals beyond help. You are ok with putting down a rabid or uncontrollable animal aren't you?0 -
Well, if he intended to kill him - it's murder (regardless as to if it was justified).So, at no point do you think he should have realized he'd successfully gotten his daughter out of danger and was causing more injury than necessary?
Nope. Allowing him to live only allows him the opportunity to molest other children. These people have a sickness and a compulsion. I'm sorry for that, I wish they didn't. But it can't be allowed to go on.
But I'm guessing his intention was to beat him, not specifically to kill him - understanding if what happened happened exactly as he said it.
I'll wait till all the evidence is in before making a judgement, as if you look at the child abuse statistics the person most likely to abuse the child is actually a family member - not somebody from outside the family - it's sad, but true
Also, killing solves nothing - the death penalty doesn't work, if it did you would have a lower crime rate/re-offender rate (as opposed to the worst in the developed world).
On a side note - why do people think that trying to understand why people do the things they do is making excuses or implying that it should be allowed/they should be let off.
People are too focused on vengeance & have lost sight of what really matters, which is trying to find ways to reduce the amount of children who experience this kind of suffering - that's what's important.0 -
Emmy, I agree with you on principle, but my father has worked in a max security prison for more than 30 years and his argument against the death penalty for pedos is that it will make them more likely to kill their victims so as not to leave a witness. It's a tough debate. But I don't think all human life is equally valuable and pedos are below murderers IMO.
I also don't get, if you believe God created all life, why a dog's life is disposable but a human's isn't.0 -
I also don't get, if you believe God created all life, why a dog's life is disposable but a human's isn't.
God made humans in his own image and likeness. He breathed life into them, giving them souls. No other animals were created in such a way.0 -
Your father is completely correct.my father has worked in a max security prison for more than 30 years and his argument against the death penalty for pedos is that it will make them more likely to kill their victims so as not to leave a witness
This is why rape is treated less than murder, as in country's in which the plenty is the same - they also kill the women after they rape them.
Do we all want vengeance with lot's of extra dead women?, or do we all want justice & more women alive?.0 -
But how many humans are as selfless and loving as a dog? When I think of valuable life and compare a baby-raper to.an animal that would die to save or comfort someone, there is no contest. If animals don't have souls or life, then how do they breathe and move? And if your God didn't give them that life, who did?I also don't get, if you believe God created all life, why a dog's life is disposable but a human's isn't.
God made humans in his own image and likeness. He breathed life into them, giving them souls. No other animals were created in such a way.0 -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
But how many humans are as selfless and loving as a dog? When I think of valuable life and compare a baby-raper to.an animal that would die to save or comfort someone, there is no contest. If animals don't have souls or life, then how do they breathe and move? And if your God didn't give them that life, who did?I also don't get, if you believe God created all life, why a dog's life is disposable but a human's isn't.
God made humans in his own image and likeness. He breathed life into them, giving them souls. No other animals were created in such a way.0
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