Haters or Freedom of speach?
Replies
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I swear to god I am having the wildest case of deja vu from my last post.
Oh god and this one too.
I have the ****tiest powers of premonition ever :laugh:0 -
THREE WAY.0
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THREE WAY.
I approve of this message.0 -
1.) Yep, that is me as a future delinquent in the ski shot
2.) I'm here for the orgy.0 -
THREE WAY.
I approve of this message.
You should know that my cats like to watch.
Sorry.0 -
I'm feeling pretty ignored here. .
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I'M HERE FOR THE SEX BBQ!0
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Everyone is invited.0
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Apologies in advance for the directness and general unLorroness of the following message which is directed at no-one inparticular :flowerforyou:
I find the style of debate that involves not listening, scoring points, trying to win and being as aggressive as possible tedious in the extreme. Sure people have a right to do it if they want, but why take over every thread with it? That's hardly considerate to those who find it distatsteful, nor to those asking for advice (unless they welcome that style of debate). I suspect that most people who don't like this style of debate have already clicked off.... It also irritates me that these types of discussions on the net always come down to people name calling others as being too sensitive and childish. Ironic! :huh: Stop blaming moderators and find a way to balance what you want with the need to co-exist with people who prefer to interact with each other in a civil manner. Unless of course it's only what you want that matters?0 -
Apologies in advance for the directness and general unLorroness of the following message which is directed at no-one inparticular :flowerforyou:
I find the style of debate that involves not listening, scoring points, trying to win and being as aggressive as possible tedious in the extreme. Sure people have a right to do it if they want, but why take over every thread with it? That's hardly considerate to those who find it distatsteful, nor to those asking for advice (unless they welcome that style of debate). I suspect that most people who don't like this style of debate have already clicked off.... It also irritates me that these types of discussions on the net always come down to people name calling others as being too sensitive and childish. Ironic! :huh: Stop blaming moderators and find a way to balance what you want with the need to co-exist with people who prefer to interact with each other in a civil manner. Unless of course it's only what you want that matters?
Hear, hear!
I really have nothing else to add -- guess I'm just the opposite of Kitsune -- can we still be friends??0 -
I'M HERE FOR THE SEX BBQ!
Woah, there's BBQ too! Awesome. I'll try not to stand too close to the grill, sexin' and hot coals don't mix (unless that's your thing, of course).0 -
The British are supposed to speak and write in the most pure and highest form of the English language. What's up with that misspelling? Maybe I am being a hater here.
You need to look to Castadiva and Lorro for proper English - I never went to school.......:laugh:
Ha! You're a class act Anna, no matter where you went to school :flowerforyou:0 -
Anna, You seem to be a strong voice of reason in this group, so I'm really glad you were the one to start this thread - thank you!
I like most of the conversation and even the friendlier debates within the group. The discussion and differing opinions are why I continue to come back to read and post.
What I haven't enjoyed recently is that there have been a small number of people purposefully attacking and insulting others repeatedly. And even when there seems to be a clear majority who notice and are offended, it is overlooked. I assume how much you insult others is directly related to 'who you know' off the forum. I have been known to defend both myself and my gender on certain threads, but I have never intended to hurt anyone, and I hope that is obvious.0 -
I appreciate the measured and respectful responses here and again it shows how easy it is to do.
It saddens me that NC has asked to step down,as of now I have spoken with her to reconsider and have not accepted that request.
I will be 100 % honest,the reason I asked her to accept the position is because as some of the hard feelings and animosity were developing I was taking much of it as an over reaction.
We all have life experience biases and prejudices as well as what seems to be inherent gender ones.
I recognize this in myself and when Sherri asked me to do this (btw,not going to speak for her but I will say she is not happy with where she sees this heading) it was because she felt her "real" life had taken her to a place that she could not put much attention here.
In light of that I wanted another lady to talk with to make sure I did not react to things based on my biases or ignorant of views I simply could not relate to.
She is right though,the "just PM a person and tell them to behave" idea is easy to say but does not work.
I did that today as a person several hours after the argument in Dianas thread had settled down with respectful discussion chose to try to start up the argument again.
I deleted the post and PMed the person asking them not to but was ultimately accused of being a coward for not addressing others.
That person is still here and can read this so no knee jerk reactions ensued however it does show what I suspected...very few in that situation will respond positively to it.
I have been a moderator on a political board for a number of years (one thing no one knows is that I am probably the most political person any of you know but on here no one will ever know it) and the first "rule" is that when in doubt you do nothing.
That seems to work so please understand that if I feel there was a need to step in it was because in my evaluation of things there was no longer a doubt that it was needed.
One thing that does also honestly astonish me is that there seems to be an equivalence to wanting courteous and respectful discussion is somehow oppressive or censoring.
Nothing can be farther from the truth,it is about behavior not opinion.
I am tired of all this too (yeah big deal) but no matter what NC or myself decide I am saying as me the person not a moderator to please take a moment to reflect on a few things.
One is that no person is always the final authority on what is or what is not offensive or a word ending with "ism".
Sometimes it is universal,others not so much.
Second is whoever happens to be a mod here is simply trying to allow all points of view,even those that may be unpopular not be shouted down.
To me that is the true censorship.
Third and last is that before you post,take a second to reread what you wrote and consider the Golden Rule as far as how would you feel if a person posted this to you.
Sorry for the wall of text.0 -
THREE WAY.
I approve of this message.
You should know that my cats like to watch.
Sorry.
Mine too! Hahaha!0 -
I loved coming to Single Peeps in the past because I wanted to learn from others, hear their opinions, and share my experiences hoping to help someone. I never came to debate anyone, though of course others are free to do so. What seems to be happening lately is the passing of debate into argurments where one or both parties seem to believe they will convince the other of their correctness. It has just degenerated from there, and then people jump on a bandwagon.
So I'm officially stepping down as a mod today and will step away from Single Peeps. Based on the comments on here today, it's clear that's the best thing for all of me and the spirit of a public forum. So if debating and arguing is what everyone wants, have fun with it and good luck!
Aw, no! I really like hearing your thoughts on things.
I do agree with you though - I like debate, but when it gets to name-calling and stuff that is what sucks.0 -
Personally, I know you both Meesha and Shammox and have seen your posts numerous times. So you definitely are 'noticed' if not directly replied to :flowerforyou:
Same here! People might not post all the time, but I do recognize them!0 -
I appreciate the measured and respectful responses here and again it shows how easy it is to do.
It saddens me that NC has asked to step down,as of now I have spoken with her to reconsider and have not accepted that request.
I will be 100 % honest,the reason I asked her to accept the position is because as some of the hard feelings and animosity were developing I was taking much of it as an over reaction.
We all have life experience biases and prejudices as well as what seems to be inherent gender ones.
I recognize this in myself and when Sherri asked me to do this (btw,not going to speak for her but I will say she is not happy with where she sees this heading) it was because she felt her "real" life had taken her to a place that she could not put much attention here.
In light of that I wanted another lady to talk with to make sure I did not react to things based on my biases or ignorant of views I simply could not relate to.
She is right though,the "just PM a person and tell them to behave" idea is easy to say but does not work.
I did that today as a person several hours after the argument in Dianas thread had settled down with respectful discussion chose to try to start up the argument again.
I deleted the post and PMed the person asking them not to but was ultimately accused of being a coward for not addressing others.
That person is still here and can read this so no knee jerk reactions ensued however it does show what I suspected...very few in that situation will respond positively to it.
I have been a moderator on a political board for a number of years (one thing no one knows is that I am probably the most political person any of you know but on here no one will ever know it) and the first "rule" is that when in doubt you do nothing.
That seems to work so please understand that if I feel there was a need to step in it was because in my evaluation of things there was no longer a doubt that it was needed.
One thing that does also honestly astonish me is that there seems to be an equivalence to wanting courteous and respectful discussion is somehow oppressive or censoring.
Nothing can be farther from the truth,it is about behavior not opinion.
I am tired of all this too (yeah big deal) but no matter what NC or myself decide I am saying as me the person not a moderator to please take a moment to reflect on a few things.
One is that no person is always the final authority on what is or what is not offensive or a word ending with "ism".
Sometimes it is universal,others not so much.
Second is whoever happens to be a mod here is simply trying to allow all points of view,even those that may be unpopular not be shouted down.
To me that is the true censorship.
Third and last is that before you post,take a second to reread what you wrote and consider the Golden Rule as far as how would you feel if a person posted this to you.
Sorry for the wall of text.
Carl you are doing an outstanding job! When I decided to step away from being a moderator/admin, Sherri and I talked about who should replace me and eventually take over single peeps. Both Sherri and I immediately thought of you. You my friend are the voice of reason. You are calm, rational, and you care. Don't let this get to you.
If people can't abide by the rules then cut them loose. Do not sacrafice the group in order to be fair to the few trolls that ruin the threads for the other 1670 or so other single peeps. Let them go troll some place else!0 -
If people are breaking the rules and using abusive language then the moderation policy is fairly clear cut, the site rules apply too.
I think the issue that Anna is asking for comment/consensus compromise on are those topics which get very heated and the comment gets personal in tone as people disagree intensely with each others opinons. It may be such a compromise is not possible or doesn't meet the site rules but I think the intention is a good one and should be explored.
As I mentioned elsewhere, an obvious compromise would be for people to start their own threads if they want to engage in the kind of debate that is perceived as problematic by others and to give moderators permission to separate threads if discussion drifts that way. Would a separately moderated debating sub-forum satisfy everyone and is it viable?0 -
If people are breaking the rules and using abusive language then the moderation policy is fairly clear cut, the site rules apply too.
I think the issue that Anna is asking for comment/consensus compromise on are those topics which get very heated and the comment gets personal in tone as people disagree intensely with each others opinons. It may be such a compromise is not possible or doesn't meet the site rules but I think the intention is a good one and should be explored.
As I mentioned elsewhere, an obvious compromise would be for people to start their own threads if they want to engage in the kind of debate that is perceived as problematic by others and to give moderators permission to separate threads if discussion drifts that way. Would a separately moderated debating sub-forum satisfy everyone and is it viable?
I think that's an excellent solution if it's possible. Alternatively, marking threads with contentious subjects as 'Debate', so that those who do not wish to join in can avoid them, perhaps? I believe moderators can alter titles - is that correct?
I really enjoy some of the more heated debates that occur here - if nothing else, they fill a lot of otherwise very boring day-job hours! I'd be very sorry to see them go. I do feel that there is both a little too much sensitivity to the potential for offence in some cases - learning to handle that, and to defend/explain your position is part of being an adult, surely? - and sometimes debates do descend into playground battles, it seems. However, I don't believe that unpopular opinions, or those who object to those opinions and explain why, should be censored (or officially-censured). Nor should vehement expression/defence of an opinion, provided the language used is not abusive.
Allow both sides the freedom to state their case and rebut that of those in opposition, as adults. Things will get heated. Many people will share one opinion and others may be in a minority - that's just how life is. I've been on both sides of that divide, here, and relished the opportunity to explain and debate my opinions and perspectives on the opinions of others. In some cases, doing so has helped me to fully consider my opinion, the reasons and rationale behind it. I've learned something about myself from responding to things I find objectionable, and I've been forced to consider new perspectives presented by others.
Sure, the moderators should intervene if a personal attack is cruel, or language is abusive or unnecessarily crass (though, given what we're usually talking about, there's a fine line to walk there), but otherwise, I'm all for leaving well enough alone, and letting things come to their natural conclusion. Several very heated threads from last week have come to a natural close without moderation, because various Peeps, either through lack of time, or because they judged there was no point in further thrashing out something on which they were never going to agree (sometimes both), have stepped back and allowed things to die down.
For those who don't enjoy debating, there are always a number of threads here where the discussion is less contentious. Marking or separating threads that do cause dissension might make this a more welcoming forum for those people.
By the way, I'm delighted to be considered a Brit (still only a permanent resident and not officially a citizen until next year - can't wait! :happy:) - I'm in excellent company. Anna, Lorro - cheers! :drinker: (FlimFlam - I'm assuming you are adamantly French, regardless of your place of residence...If I'm wrong, please include yourself in this raised glass!)0 -
I don't like this idea. I think this is humiliating and will prevent more people from posting, if anything.I still like Mike's idea of calling the offender out publicly if the "be nice" reminder doesn't work.
There is no reason to call someone out publicly and someone who has been called publicly would lose immediately all credibility ("Oh well, given your past on these forums, I'm not sure we want to hear your opinion!").
The clean way would be for the mods message the person privately, explain the reason why, delete the offending post if necessary and if the person keeps having this behavior over time then yes maybe kick the person out.
Apart from that, I'm fully on the side of the moderators on this issue, and have agreed with all their decisions and comments so far when they unfortunately had to wear their moderators hats (not always when they were debating with me as "single peeps" ahaha) and this comment is completely true:
I must say I was really shocked by how people jumped in to support someone who only came to insult and brought absolutely no intelligent elements to the debate, literally just bashing another member. That was way off the line.Instead the name calling has continued and gotten worse, culminating in the locked thread where a member of the group repeatedly called another a c*ckknob and MANY other members started supporting that person. So much for not wanting name-calling...
I agree.What seems to be happening lately is the passing of debate into arguments where one or both parties seem to believe they will convince the other of their correctness. It has just degenerated from there, and then people jump on a bandwagon.
What people need to realize is that this group has grown a lot in size (and probably reached critical mass). Maybe when they were only 20 people posting and talking all the time, things were intelligible. I know we all get bad days (me too) but yes, we should be policing ourselves mainly.
Sometimes people fail to police themselves (and that's OK), but I would probably not be coming back here if there wasn't some level of moderation (to prevent people from going too far).
I am some sort of hybrid creature now I guess... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Cheers anyway! :drinker:Anna, Lorro - cheers! (FlimFlam - I'm assuming you are adamantly French, regardless of your place of residence...If I'm wrong, please include yourself in this raised glass!)0 -
Dang. I just came in here to make fun of your title. :ohwell:
Ditto! Had a great "peach" joke lined up. Now it's too late. So sad... :-(
--P0 -
For the people that feel ignored!
No one is specifically ignoring you, please don't believe that we are! Usually there's a couple reasons this might happen.
1) a bunch of people have already posted a similar message and it may have already gotten responded to. This is why I avoid posting if I see that someone else has already said what I want to say and will wait until there's something new to respond to. I notice a lot that it's not uncommon for 5+ people to post almost identical comments.
2) The conversation may have moved on already. If you are posting on page 5 a response to the OP, the conversation may have gone from "Do you swear" to "where did you go to school".
3) Your response simply may not illicit a response from someone else. I myself am a minimalist and unless I have something to add to, I don't just quote and say "yeah, this". It doesn't mean I don't agree, value your opinion or am ignoring. It just means I have nothing better to offer to the conversation.
I'm sorry if anyone feels ignored, I know there was a period of time I did as well, until... well I guess I started making a scene, haha! Don't do what I did though D8
#4 single peeps has turned into the same 6 people arguing the same points under different topic names.0 -
For the people that feel ignored!
blah blah blah... lists counting words
I'm sorry if anyone feels ignored, I know there was a period of time I did as well, until... well I guess I started making a scene, haha! Don't do what I did though D8
#4 single peeps has turned into the same 6 people arguing the same points under different topic names.
There there, we see you. We notice you. You are very cute. You are important to us.
/teasing0 -
Nvr seen you b4 in here. U single bb?There there, we see you. We notice you. You are very cute. You are important to us.
/teasing 0 -
Dang. I just came in here to make fun of your title. :ohwell:
Ditto! Had a great "peach" joke lined up. Now it's too late. So sad... :-(
--P
Dont be such a beach!!! 0 -
Been sooooooo busy working today, that I've not had time to reply........ but just wanted to say its great that we all have a view, and perhaps we have turned a corner by understanding each other a little better?
:flowerforyou:0 -
NC has contacted me and has decided that at this point she still,for the reasons she cited,no longer wishes to be a moderator here and is also leaving the group and likely MFP as well.
I have no choice to honor this but it leaves me profoundly sad for likely part of that is because I asked her to do this and also more then a bit angry.
Folks the wars of life are not going to be solved here nor are individuals interpretations of things always correct despite how certain one is that they are.
I am going away right now as I am not in the mood to impartially discuss things.0 -
Carl, I'm very sorry to hear of NC's decision, and also that you feel personally responsible in some way (unless I'm misinterpreting your post. If so, my apologies.) It is sad that NC feels unable to continue in the group, even if not as a moderator.
Nonetheless, I feel obliged to point out that while the rights and wrongs of the world may not be resolved here, 'correct' is a very subjective thing, particularly when it comes to opinion, which is what most of these heated debates have been about. I think one goes down a very dangerous road if 'incorrect' interpretations and opinions, in the views of the moderators, whoever they may be, are to be censored (again, if I am misinterpreting your words, I am sorry). I see no reason why contentious issues should not be debated in a public forum, and with that comes raised temperatures, and words that are harsher than might be used in face-to-face debate. The internet is a very 'free' place, by its' nature. I'm absolutely not condoning the use of offensive or abusive language, but I was on the receiving end of several fairly harsh comments myself, last week, and as an adult, I accepted that those statements reflected that member's opinion, and, I hope, rebutted them in an adult manner. Perhaps neither of us was 'correct', but I'm uncomfortable with even the idea that either opinion, expressed in non-abusive language (though some of the sentiments expressed were, to put it mildly, unpleasant), should be prohibited from expression because another party believes them to be 'wrong'.0 -
Carl, I'm very sorry to hear of NC's decision, and also that you feel personally responsible in some way (unless I'm misinterpreting your post. If so, my apologies.) It is sad that NC feels unable to continue in the group, even if not as a moderator.
Nonetheless, I feel obliged to point out that while the rights and wrongs of the world may not be resolved here, 'correct' is a very subjective thing, particularly when it comes to opinion, which is what most of these heated debates have been about. I think one goes down a very dangerous road if 'incorrect' interpretations and opinions, in the views of the moderators, whoever they may be, are to be censored (again, if I am misinterpreting your words, I am sorry). I see no reason why contentious issues should not be debated in a public forum, and with that comes raised temperatures, and words that are harsher than might be used in face-to-face debate. The internet is a very 'free' place, by its' nature. I'm absolutely not condoning the use of offensive or abusive language, but I was on the receiving end of several fairly harsh comments myself, last week, and as an adult, I accepted that those statements reflected that member's opinion, and, I hope, rebutted them in an adult manner. Perhaps neither of us was 'correct', but I'm uncomfortable with even the idea that either opinion, expressed in non-abusive language (though some of the sentiments expressed were, to put it mildly, unpleasant), should be prohibited from expression because another party believes them to be 'wrong'.
If that was the case there would not be a discussion here but too often it is not.
What I meant is to the point that a person is not just unwilling to accept there may be a different opinion or take on things but where it is determined that the opposing view has to be shouted down or expunged.
The result has been lately and hopefully no more where it carries over into another thread via posts seemingly designed to annoy or poke or searching for some reason to carry on the last argument.
It just isn`t that important in the picture of life.0
This discussion has been closed.