Haters or Freedom of speach?
Replies
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It's really simple gang...
1. don't call people names or attack them personally... attack their point if you disagree with it.
2. You don't need the last word in every thread
3. You're not going to change someone's mind with a 15th reply to their counter argument.... kicking a dead horse does absolutely nothing, if you haven't found mutual ground by your 3rd or 4th reply in an argument it isn't going to happen, so simply agree to disagree.
4. just because someone has a differing view than yours doesn't mean it's offensive and you should go reporting it. I think we have all done a pretty good job of recognizing trolls in this group and they usually leave when they don't get attention.
5. Stop filling up the mods inbox with complaints... if you are so offended by something someone says leave that particular thread... if that person attacks you personally time and again it might be appropriate to let a mod know... but give them concrete evidence of an attack, don't just say your offended.
Fantastic post. Let's all read this a few times and move on!
--P0 -
Oh yeah you're okay too kits, I must have....I played along too 8(
Maybe I was too subtle...
LOOK! BEWBIES!
Did somebody say boobies?
I am smart and independent. My breasticles told me so.
Disclaimer: those are not actually my bits.
I'd pay for those "bits".
Roadie is my favorite.. He always knows JUST what to say.
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I have no idea where Zach and Mike have formed the opinion that women don't appreciate their opinions!!! :noway: WOMEN LOVE MALE OPINION - GOOD OR BAD OR INDIFFERENT! (We just dont like sexism!!)
There has never been a gender war in here (well, ok, sometimes there is banter and genuine interest in gender opinions). There were sexist comments made by ONE man and both MEN and women called him out on it!!
Mike, if you are indeed not at all sexist, then I suggest you choose your words a bit more carefully, because, trust me, some of your comments have come across totally sexist!
Sex·ism/ˈsekˌsizəm/
Noun:
Prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.
So when you say something like "women should not raise their voice to men under any circumstances" THAT is discriminating against women on the basis of their gender. FINE if you had said "people should not shout at each other" but you didnt, you said WOMEN should not shout at MEN!! :grumble:
NO woman in here gives a damn if you prefer a mindless Barbie doll as your choice of partner!! Nor that you think fake boobs are the answer to every girls woes. However, please, spare us the talks on how YOU think women should act or that we have "evolved out the human race" because you think our fight for equality is not suiting YOUR style!! Let me assure you, that most men do NOT think like you!! You have that entirely incorrect ,so again, it would be really good if you could speak for yourself and not for all mankind!
Zach - I think you have the women wrong in here. You're new and therefore forgiven
I think you'll find that the women here love a decent debate and are very happy to listen to what men have to say. Always!! Unfortunately your thread got stopped because it was off the back of another heated debate or two. I was actually just about to agree with you that JJ was overly harsh in her assessment of women as a whole, but I couldnt.....hence this thread now......
Anyway...............yeah................carry on :bigsmile:0 -
It's really simple gang...
1. don't call people names or attack them personally... attack their point if you disagree with it.
2. You don't need the last word in every thread
3. You're not going to change someone's mind with a 15th reply to their counter argument.... kicking a dead horse does absolutely nothing, if you haven't found mutual ground by your 3rd or 4th reply in an argument it isn't going to happen, so simply agree to disagree.
4. just because someone has a differing view than yours doesn't mean it's offensive and you should go reporting it. I think we have all done a pretty good job of recognizing trolls in this group and they usually leave when they don't get attention.
5. Stop filling up the mods inbox with complaints... if you are so offended by something someone says leave that particular thread... if that person attacks you personally time and again it might be appropriate to let a mod know... but give them concrete evidence of an attack, don't just say your offended.
I love you! 0 -
since I don’t want to start a flame-war. 9 times out of 10 I’m writing for the benefit of the OP, the inexperienced women on this forum, and the few guys who really want to understand female mentality a little better. “ [/b]
If there is one thing that is blatantly clear from this forum is that NOT all men think the same, and NOT all women think the same!
I therefore wish that we would stop using the whole gender thing to back up a personal opinion!! I know that's hard, as I find myself doing it too (see above :noway:....lol) , but really, its untrue that women all think the same JJ. In fact, I would say that your views and mine are about as similar as chalk is to cheese....lol :flowerforyou:0 -
Anna, how are you capable of so thoroughly telling someone off and I still imagine you doing it with a smile on your lips and laughter on your breath all at the same time?
Color me impressed!0 -
Mike, if you are indeed not at all sexist, then I suggest you choose your words a bit more carefully, because, trust me, some of your comments have come across totally sexist!
Sex·ism/ˈsekˌsizəm/
Noun:
Prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.
So when you say something like "women should not raise their voice to men under any circumstances" THAT is discriminating against women on the basis of their gender. FINE if you had said "people should not shout at each other" but you didnt, you said WOMEN should not shout at MEN!! :grumble:
NO woman in here gives a damn if you prefer a mindless Barbie doll as your choice of partner!! Nor that you think fake boobs are the answer to every girls woes. However, please, spare us the talks on how YOU think women should act or that we have "evolved out the human race" because you think our fight for equality is not suiting YOUR style!! Let me assure you, that most men do NOT think like you!! You have that entirely incorrect ,so again, it would be really good if you could speak for yourself and not for all mankind!
Yes, definitely agree with you here Anna. Comments which cause a lot of controversy around here are often generalizations which people then take offence to. If people really think of what they write before they write it, a lot of the problems that occur wouldn't be brought up. Avoiding generalizations is the best key to keeping the peace around here.0 -
I was actually just about to agree with you that JJ was overly harsh in her assessment of women as a whole, but I couldnt.....hence this thread now......
Hm... now you've got me curious, because I'm not sure how saying that putting a guys hand under your shirt doesn't equal consent to sex is overly harsh in my assessment of women...?
Or perhaps this isn't a thought on my comments in Diana's post but rather overall?
In the past I've been asked to tone down my opinion that much of male attraction is based on looks. I've also been asked not to be so vocal about my personal experience online of having the exact same profile but two different pictures (with the heavier picture attracting more jerks and the slimmer picture attracting much higher quality men). I like to think I've toned down both of those opinions, but I'm certainly not going to negate what I've seen what my eyes to appease strangers on the internet.0 -
I was actually just about to agree with you that JJ was overly harsh in her assessment of women as a whole, but I couldnt.....hence this thread now......
Hm... now you've got me curious, because I'm not sure how saying that putting a guys hand under your shirt doesn't equal consent to sex is overly harsh in my assessment of women...?
Or perhaps this isn't a thought on my comments in Diana's post but rather overall? In the past I've been asked to tone down my opinion that much of male attraction is based on looks. I've also been asked not to be so vocal about my personal experience online of having the exact same profile but two different pictures (with the heavier picture attracting more jerks and the slimmer picture attracting much higher quality men. I like to think I've toned down both of those opinions, but I will never negate what I've seen what my eyes to appease strangers on the internet.
No, no, that wasn't what I disagreed with. It was based on the debate you were having about religion and sex. A good debate for the future which I will re-thread when I have a bit more time :flowerforyou: (And things have relaxed a bit round here!)
And I really am surprised with all the PMs that go on around here telling people to tone down etc. I never knew that happened! :noway:0 -
Anna, how are you capable of so thoroughly telling someone off and I still imagine you doing it with a smile on your lips and laughter on your breath all at the same time?
Color me impressed!
Thanks Kits, you're sweet. :flowerforyou: Don't worry, when I was your age I was a feisty, stroppy trollop!! (a bit like you, which is why I love you so much!!! :laugh: ) I will tell you some stories some time...... :noway:
As I've got older I have learned that arguing is pretty pointless and smiling and being at peace is far more fulfilling. Dont get me wrong, I usually state my case but try to do so without raising my blood pressure!!! :laugh: Besides, I have enough stress in my job so I come here to relax........
This is a great pastime - coming in here and having a view. It's fun and entertaining and usually quite informative. I'd prefer to make friends than enemies, if you know what I mean 0 -
I have no idea where Zach and Mike have formed the opinion that women don't appreciate their opinions!!! :noway: WOMEN LOVE MALE OPINION - GOOD OR BAD OR INDIFFERENT! (We just dont like sexism!!)
There has never been a gender war in here (well, ok, sometimes there is banter and genuine interest in gender opinions). There were sexist comments made by ONE man and both MEN and women called him out on it!!
Mike, if you are indeed not at all sexist, then I suggest you choose your words a bit more carefully, because, trust me, some of your comments have come across totally sexist!
Sex·ism/ˈsekˌsizəm/
Noun:
Prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of sex.
So when you say something like "women should not raise their voice to men under any circumstances" THAT is discriminating against women on the basis of their gender. FINE if you had said "people should not shout at each other" but you didnt, you said WOMEN should not shout at MEN!! :grumble:
NO woman in here gives a damn if you prefer a mindless Barbie doll as your choice of partner!! Nor that you think fake boobs are the answer to every girls woes. However, please, spare us the talks on how YOU think women should act or that we have "evolved out the human race" because you think our fight for equality is not suiting YOUR style!! Let me assure you, that most men do NOT think like you!! You have that entirely incorrect ,so again, it would be really good if you could speak for yourself and not for all mankind!
Zach - I think you have the women wrong in here. You're new and therefore forgiven I think you'll find that the women here love a decent debate and are very happy to listen to what men have to say. Always!! Unfortunately your thread got stopped because it was off the back of another heated debate or two. I was actually just about to agree with you that JJ was overly harsh in her assessment of women as a whole, but I couldnt.....hence this thread now......
Anyway...............yeah................carry on :bigsmile:
OK Anna, you win.
But keep in mind that men and women are held to different social standards. Women can get away with things that men can't and vice versa. That's just the way it is. Why are men suppose to open car doors and women aren't? Why do men pay for the first couple dates? Why do men have to initiate almost everything in the courting process? I can go on and on. By your definition (sounds like descrimination to me), it's pure sexism and I pray that you don't have to deal with those horrible things.
Believe me, I've met hundreds of women like you over the years. Your views are in no way unique to me. Growing up in the northeast, most women are pretty similar to you. They are progressive females looking to change the establishment. And to be honest.. I enjoy listening to their argument. The problem I have is that they love to preach equality, but never reach for the check on a date.
Oh, and I LOVE that you know so much about us men. Please educate me and tell me what men like and how we think.0 -
I agree that opinion is not divided on gender lines. My observations are informed by similar conflicts within communities on other net forums. It's not on the same scale here, but the dynamics are the same. A minority of men are engaged in a gender war, both online and in real life. Conflict such as that we have seen here plays into their hands. It gives them attention, an audience, opponents to fight against and an outlet for their hate which they don't have in real life. That's why the volume increases. The forum gets subsumed into their gender war. Again, this isn't directed at anyone inparticular, I've caught a few of the threads because I happened to post on them before they got hostile but I avoid them if I can.0
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I cannot believe this thread still has life. Single Peeps used to be a fun place to hang out socialize and see how everyone was doing, maybe answer a question or two and offer a perspective once in awhile in response to someone's question.
Now it has turned into he said she said and it has gotten beyond old.
Dont bother replying and explaining your case, I dont care, both sides or all three sides or however many sides there are in this argument have rationalized their argument to the point they wont even listen to a different opinion without offering their take on it. In all that rationalization you have all missed the point that this group has become a smaller version of the forums. We can all be as hell bent on proving our point as we want and keep posting and replying and trying to make our point, it doesnt matter. We are on an internet forum ... a forum that used to be a fun escape from work, and responsibility. It has instead turned into everyone hell bent on proving their point...
Im done with it0 -
Now I just feel bad.
Can we just blame the new guy and be cool now?0 -
OK Anna, you win.
But keep in mind that men and women are held to different social standards. Women can get away with things that men can't and vice versa. That's just the way it is. Why are men suppose to open car doors and women aren't? Why do men pay for the first couple dates? Why do men have to initiate almost everything in the courting process? I can go on and on. By your definition (sounds like descrimination to me), it's pure sexism and I pray that you don't have to deal with those horrible things.
Believe me, I've met hundreds of women like you over the years. Your views are in no way unique to me. Growing up in the northeast, most women are pretty similar to you. They are progressive females looking to change the establishment. And to be honest.. I enjoy listening to their argument. The problem I have is that they love to preach equality, but never reach for the check on a date.
Oh, and I LOVE that you know so much about us men. Please educate me and tell me what men like and how we think.
I am going to say this very gently because I really don't want another fight.
Mike, once again you are generalizing. You assume that the same women fighting for equality in all things are the same women that expect you to pay for the check on every date and have the door open for them (it's archaic, whoever gets to the door first should hold it open).
Just because we have more estrogen than testosterone doesn't mean we all agree on the same things.
And if you are encountering women like that, then you should stop going on dates with hypocrites and demonizing a whole gender.
Do you get it?0 -
OK Anna, you win.
But keep in mind that men and women are held to different social standards. Women can get away with things that men can't and vice versa. That's just the way it is. Why are men suppose to open car doors and women aren't? Why do men pay for the first couple dates? Why do men have to initiate almost everything in the courting process? I can go on and on. By your definition (sounds like descrimination to me), it's pure sexism and I pray that you don't have to deal with those horrible things.
Believe me, I've met hundreds of women like you over the years. Your views are in no way unique to me. Growing up in the northeast, most women are pretty similar to you. They are progressive females looking to change the establishment. And to be honest.. I enjoy listening to their argument. The problem I have is that they love to preach equality, but never reach for the check on a date.
Oh, and I LOVE that you know so much about us men. Please educate me and tell me what men like and how we think.
I am going to say this very gently because I really don't want another fight.
Mike, once again you are generalizing. You assume that the same women fighting for equality in all things are the same women that expect you to pay for the check on every date and have the door open for them (it's archaic, whoever gets to the door first should hold it open).
Just because we have more estrogen than testosterone doesn't mean we all agree on the same things.
And if you are encountering women like that, then you should stop going on dates with hypocrites and demonizing a whole gender.
Do you get it?
That is exactly it.
I'm not sure where you meet these women but clearly you're not meeting the right women. I've said that before...and perhaps because of your preferred body type (thin, attractive, tan, big boobs, etc), you are meeting women who are very full of themselves because they are very attractive.
I assure you there are cool, pretty but not supermodel hot women out there that will be happy to flirt with you, ask you on a date, and maybe even pick up the check. Who knows, you might even be overlooking them because you have eyes for the 20-year-old girl in the skintight dress, while the nice 30-year old woman next to you thinks you're cute and wishes you would at least look at her.
I am more a traditionalist. I want a guy to ask me out, and offer to pay for the first date. After that, I am more willing to be outgoing and pay for dates, etc but in the beginning, I prefer a traditional date. BUT there are tons of women who aren't like me. So instead of complaining about women like me, don't date women like me.0 -
Now I just feel bad.
Can we just blame the new guy and be cool now?
yes, I hope so.
I think everyone has had their say :flowerforyou:0 -
This has nothing to do with this group. Take this highschool drama to PM's or leave it in the original thread0
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This has nothing to do with this group. Take this highschool drama to PM's or leave it in the original thread
We post stuff in this group that often has nothing to do with singledom or dating.
Having a thread that focuses on our current issues is helping us resolve those issues. Feel free to peruse many others that haven't been tainted by "highschool drama" which is, apparently, any type of disagreement that whoever is using the term at the moment decides they don't want to be a part of.
You're too cute to be so mean 0 -
Now I just feel bad.
Can we just blame the new guy and be cool now?
yes, I hope so.
I think everyone has had their say :flowerforyou:
Hey
I'm the new guy 0 -
Now I just feel bad.
Can we just blame the new guy and be cool now?
yes, I hope so.
I think everyone has had their say :flowerforyou:
Hey I'm the new guy
but you can't be the......new..................guy.........0 -
Now I just feel bad.
Can we just blame the new guy and be cool now?
yes, I hope so.
I think everyone has had their say :flowerforyou:
Hey I'm the new guy
but you can't be the......new..................guy.........
They can do wonders these days0 -
I don't think it's high school drama at all. I think this is a wonderful discussion about equal right, sexism, etc.
Without debates like this.. women might never have had the right to vote or go to college or even be allowed in the workplace, so I think it's a worthwhile conversation to have.
I do have one genuine question (not being a wise guy here), but why are women so selective when it comes to fighting for their rights?
Consider the following:
Women fought for the right to vote and elect our leaders into office. Yet, they didn't fight for their right to be drafted into the army and fight in the Vietnam War. Over 50,000 young men died in the Vietman War.
Women fought for their right to be able to enter the work force. Yet, they didn't fight for the right to work in the coal mines (they were prohibited) back when they were thriving in the very early 1900's. Hundreds of young men died in the mines.
And to this date, only men are required to enroll in the selective service (in case of another draft) or they won't be able to get student loans, a government job, etc.
So why have women, over the years, only fought for selected rights and not others? I direct this question at Anna and Kitsune.0 -
I don't think it's high school drama at all. I think this is a wonderful discussion about equal right, sexism, etc.
Without debates like this.. women might never have had the right to vote or go to college or even be allowed in the workplace, so I think it's a worthwhile conversation to have.
I do have one genuine question (not being a wise guy here), but why are women so selective when it comes to fighting for their rights?
Consider the following:
Women fought for the right to vote and elect our leaders into office. Yet, they didn't fight for their right to be drafted into the army and fight in the Vietnam War. Over 50,000 young men died in the Vietman War.
Women fought for their right to be able to enter the work force. Yet, they didn't fight for the right to work in the coal mines (they were prohibited) back when they were thriving in the very early 1900's. Hundreds of young men died in the mines.
And to this date, only men are required to enroll in the selective service (in case of another draft) or they won't be able to get student loans, a government job, etc.
So why have women, over the years, only fought for selected rights and not others? I direct this question at Anna and Kitsune.
Mike, do you mind if we start another thread with this?? I just think it's detracting from the main issue here - even though I know I brought up sexism as the reason for the recent debacle, but we need to get back on course.........so put it out there as a separate subject, please? It's a worthy subject on it's own :flowerforyou:
ETA - I'm off to bed now anyhow, it's 1.38am here! So I'll happily answer when I get a moment tomorrrow0 -
I don't think it's high school drama at all. I think this is a wonderful discussion about equal right, sexism, etc.
Without debates like this.. women might never have had the right to vote or go to college or even be allowed in the workplace, so I think it's a worthwhile conversation to have.
I do have one genuine question (not being a wise guy here), but why are women so selective when it comes to fighting for their rights?
Consider the following:
Women fought for the right to vote and elect our leaders into office. Yet, they didn't fight for their right to be drafted into the army and fight in the Vietnam War. Over 50,000 young men died in the Vietman War.
Women fought for their right to be able to enter the work force. Yet, they didn't fight for the right to work in the coal mines (they were prohibited) back when they were thriving in the very early 1900's. Hundreds of young men died in the mines.
And to this date, only men are required to enroll in the selective service (in case of another draft) or they won't be able to get student loans, a government job, etc.
So why have women, over the years, only fought for selected rights and not others? I direct this question at Anna and Kitsune.
Mike, do you mind if we start another thread with this?? I just think it's detracting from the main issue here - even though I know I brought up sexism as the reason for the recent debacle, but we need to get back on course.........so put it out there as a separate subject, please? :flowerforyou:
ETA - I'm off to bed now anyhow, it's 1.38am here! So I'll answer when I get a moment tomorrrow
I fully agree.. I will start this in another thread. Goodnight from across the pond
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I don't think it's high school drama at all. I think this is a wonderful discussion about equal right, sexism, etc.
Without debates like this.. women might never have had the right to vote or go to college or even be allowed in the workplace, so I think it's a worthwhile conversation to have.
I do have one genuine question (not being a wise guy here), but why are women so selective when it comes to fighting for their rights?
Consider the following:
Women fought for the right to vote and elect our leaders into office. Yet, they didn't fight for their right to be drafted into the army and fight in the Vietnam War. Over 50,000 young men died in the Vietman War.
Women fought for their right to be able to enter the work force. Yet, they didn't fight for the right to work in the coal mines (they were prohibited) back when they were thriving in the very early 1900's. Hundreds of young men died in the mines.
And to this date, only men are required to enroll in the selective service (in case of another draft) or they won't be able to get student loans, a government job, etc.
So why have women, over the years, only fought for selected rights and not others? I direct this question at Anna and Kitsune.
Mike, do you mind if we start another thread with this?? I just think it's detracting from the main issue here - even though I know I brought up sexism as the reason for the recent debacle, but we need to get back on course.........so put it out there as a separate subject, please? :flowerforyou:
ETA - I'm off to bed now anyhow, it's 1.38am here! So I'll answer when I get a moment tomorrrow
I fully agree.. I will start this in another thread. Goodnight from across the pond
Thank you, you're a gent :flowerforyou:0 -
I'm also known as a habitual line stepper and stirrer of the pot. It's not something I do intentionally, as I simply state my opinion on a topic.
Habitual line stepper, eh? I guess you are channeling your inner Rick James. Don't you dare bother to stretch out on my couch!!!!! :laugh:0 -
I don't think it's high school drama at all. I think this is a wonderful discussion about equal right, sexism, etc.
Without debates like this.. women might never have had the right to vote or go to college or even be allowed in the workplace, so I think it's a worthwhile conversation to have.
I do have one genuine question (not being a wise guy here), but why are women so selective when it comes to fighting for their rights?
Consider the following:
Women fought for the right to vote and elect our leaders into office. Yet, they didn't fight for their right to be drafted into the army and fight in the Vietnam War. Over 50,000 young men died in the Vietman War.
Women fought for their right to be able to enter the work force. Yet, they didn't fight for the right to work in the coal mines (they were prohibited) back when they were thriving in the very early 1900's. Hundreds of young men died in the mines.
And to this date, only men are required to enroll in the selective service (in case of another draft) or they won't be able to get student loans, a government job, etc.
So why have women, over the years, only fought for selected rights and not others? I direct this question at Anna and Kitsune.
Mike, do you mind if we start another thread with this?? I just think it's detracting from the main issue here - even though I know I brought up sexism as the reason for the recent debacle, but we need to get back on course.........so put it out there as a separate subject, please? :flowerforyou:
ETA - I'm off to bed now anyhow, it's 1.38am here! So I'll answer when I get a moment tomorrrow
I fully agree.. I will start this in another thread. Goodnight from across the pond
Thank you, you're a gent :flowerforyou:
I am eagerly waiting, I have several good answers! 8)0 -
Thought of this thread and the fighting in general when I saw this
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This discussion has been closed.