Haters or Freedom of speach?
Replies
-
*hangs her head in shame because she called someone an asshat*0
-
Sadly, a complete overreaction on NC's part. I could understand stepping down as a mod, and perhaps even leaving the group. But leaving MFP, as well?
Not sure why we keep discussing this. This horse has been beaten to death. Attack the idea, not the person making it. No name calling or personal insults. Problem solved. Let's all move on.
--P0 -
Sadly, a complete overreaction on NC's part. I could understand stepping down as a mod, and perhaps even leaving the group. But leaving MFP, as well?
Not sure why we keep discussing this. This horse has been beaten to death. Attack the idea, not the person making it. No name calling or personal insults. Problem solved. Let's all move on.
--P
To be fair there are more then a few who have found comfort and an escape from some of the ugliness that has invaded MFP over the years in this group.
Without that MFP doesn`t hold farther interest.
I hope you are right although I suspect you will not be.0 -
Come on people, we're all adults here (although sometimes I wonder). There's a big difference between freedom of speech (or speach) and the freedom to tell someone what you think of them. But if you're going to come to an internet message board and state your opinions, however bold, you will need to deal with the fact that some (or a lot of) people will disagree with you. And deal with it like an adult instead of hiding behind your keyboard and launching random insults and calling them funny names.0
-
I would just like to say that Single Peeps has taken a different direction than what the group creator intended. Single Peeps is a private group therefore, if she or Carl don't like what you or I have to say, they can delete us, period...end of story. If we want freedom of speech that's one thing but to belittle others because they disagree with our opinions and to flame them is another.
Freedom of speech is the political right to communicate one's opinions and ideas. The term freedom of expression is sometimes used synonymously, but includes any act of seeking, receiving and imparting information or ideas, regardless of the medium used. In practice, the right to freedom of speech is not absolute in any country and the right is commonly subject to limitations, as with libel, slander, obscenity, sedition, copyright violation, revelation of information that is classified or otherwise .
So while we might disagree with what others may have to say, we should keep the personal insults to ourselves and stick to a healthy debate without name calling or using obscenity to make our points.0 -
She is right though,the "just PM a person and tell them to behave" idea is easy to say but does not work.
I did that today as a person several hours after the argument in Dianas thread had settled down with respectful discussion chose to try to start up the argument again.
I deleted the post and PMed the person asking them not to but was ultimately accused of being a coward for not addressing others.
That person is still here and can read this so no knee jerk reactions ensued however it does show what I suspected...very few in that situation will respond positively to it.
I want to address this specifically.
The only reason the PM didn't work is because there was no enforcement. At the point where you bother to go out of your way to tell someone they are behaving inappropriately and then they focus their attacks on you trying to uphold order in a respectful way... and nothing happens? Of course it doesn't work. It's like telling a kid not to steal, but then just sighing and shaking your head when they do steal. So all they get is this sweet candy and disappointment? Hell yeah, I'm gonna do that again because *kitten*, why not?
I have several times made it a point to lay off once a moderator says something, and the one time I didn't it's because I didn't see the post (and sufficiently felt like an asshat later). That being said if my post had been deleted and I was PMed I would have -apologized- and paid more attention next time.
So PMing at least let's the offender know they're doing something wrong, and if they act disrespectful in response? Then ban them. No bells and whistles, no need to make a public scene of it. Just have some kind of repercussions.
I will be straight up right here - the only reason I get as riled up and reactionary as I do is because I see someone spewing hate like it's going out of style, I'm going to have a thing or two to say. I try to be respectful if it's a new offender but when I get ignored or belittled in response, repeatedly, I'm going to step it up. This is very reminiscent of when I first moved to the US and I got bullied for the first time. I learned very quickly that the teachers cared more about a facade of peace than actually fixing a situation and that's when I learned to handle things on my own. The only way I got results is when I learned that bullies don't understand an olive branch of mutual respect, they just stop picking on the person that gets right back in their face and doesn't back down.
Unfortunately this method has lead to me being less than awesome a couple times, I am willing to admit that. While I think that overall the moderators are amazing peeps, I don't feel like they have our backs all the time and are more like the teachers from my old school with the mentality that no one should be singled out for bad behavior. If I felt like there was more backup I'd be more likely to back down.
I don't mean any of this in any disrespect toward Carl, NC, Sherri or any of the other 95% of the people in this group. I just thought that if we're gonna get this show underway I want to throw my thoughts in.0 -
What is going on in this thread?
On a serious note first thing to address: I did my very best to avoid responding to any
topics on the following situations because I was attempting to remain, or be perceived
as remaining civil. Now that I am here to rebuttal, I will be attacked randomly by certain females
in this thread more than likely.
First thing is first: Freedom of speech doesn't apply on a privately owned forum period.
If someone owns a Forum (MFP) and they assign mods to enforce rules, and then they
allow private rooms with special rules and the creator of those rooms have mod
abilities, then your speech is subject to that mod.
So no, not in a public forum is freedom of speech applicable, because we do not own the forum, period.
Carl is referring to me, Carl is correct that I told him he was cowardly, on the occasion that he chose
to "delete my post" that was pointing out continued hypocrisy in the thread, with
ACTUAL QUOTED EVIDENCE, as this group apparently dislikes.
I called Carl a coward simply because he chose the route of least resistance to reach
a goal at which he wanted.
Coward was a strong word, and the word was chosen when I felt like I was being unfairly silence,
while people who were making, not only illogical arguments, but a continued sarcastic attacks against
my opinion could continue to speak. (Out of simplicity, which is why it bothered me)
In that case, I could have chose a better approach, and I apologize to Carl for
calling him a coward. However, his approach was still not the best one, as we can see.
He wanted us to stop arguing, so he decided silencing myself would be easier than
ladies who jump back and forth on topics out of emotion, instead of simply sticking to one said topic.
However, as you can see his plan backfired, because the same people, not only embraced a new thread,
but continued to argue in the old thread, making his attempt to quell the situation by silencing the minority
argument a failure.
Which is what i said to him in a PM, which he conveniently left out:
I did call him a coward, but I also pointed out, that if he didn't address certain ladies as well
they would continue to hijack, and belittle opposing opinions. He could silence me
but he would not solve his problem. It was a duct tape solution. Which as we can see
is exactly what happened.
Now for this thread, in response to "OMG HE WASN'T PUNISHED ENOUGH".
^^ Kit is now saying, she "reacts violently" to people who spew hate.
I would love for you to go to the last topic of discussion, and back up the part where
I spew hate.
You will find none. Go ahead however, find this evidence and we will discuss it.
The bottom line is, ladies if you want a male perspective, stop being butt hurt when one
is given to you. If you always chase away men who disagree you are going to be left
with the same 1 or 2 men, who either choose to not engaged in their opinion, or simply agree
out of simplicity.
However if that is the group you want then so be it.
Furthermore, I have actually been very civil, and I did not respond further in the thread I was deleted
when I could have. I also haven't responded at all in here since now.
Ironically I will laugh hysterically when this post is deleted, when it is perceived as
"me stirring the pot".
Also to note, I speak against "personal attacks" not because I am offended but because they distract from
the topic at hand.
It is easy to distract away someone's lack of consistency if you start attacking someone else,
people laugh and they stop thinking about the validity of your argument.
So for the individuals who thought I was "offended" by attacks on the internet, no
It is just a poor attempt at deflecting away logic. Basically a symptom of Cognitive Dissonance.
Anyways, like I said before I am not fixed on posting here if that is what people want, so I guess if
not posting here makes the fixed group within happy then so be it.
However don't expect realistic opinions from men, if you are planning on shouting them down
with either off topic discussions, or personal attacks.
You will get no solid advice.0 -
I'm also known as a habitual line stepper and stirrer of the pot. It's not something I do intentionally, as I simply state my opinion on a topic.
Contrary to what most think, I'm views aren't sexist and aren't meant to be demeaning to females in any way. If you take it this way, then I'm sorry. Please take a step back, re-read the thread (to find out what I'm responding to), and just realize it's one man's response to the question asked. If you're afraid of a typical male answer, don't ask the question.
It all comes down to the fact that women on here don't like what I stand for. I'm the establishment, the status quo.. the "old guard" if you will. I'm the silent majority of how many men feel in the real world. Most men won't tell you how they really feel on a topic.. however I don't have any reservations about it.0 -
It's really simple gang...
1. don't call people names or attack them personally... attack their point if you disagree with it.
2. You don't need the last word in every thread
3. You're not going to change someone's mind with a 15th reply to their counter argument.... kicking a dead horse does absolutely nothing, if you haven't found mutual ground by your 3rd or 4th reply in an argument it isn't going to happen, so simply agree to disagree.
4. just because someone has a differing view than yours doesn't mean it's offensive and you should go reporting it. I think we have all done a pretty good job of recognizing trolls in this group and they usually leave when they don't get attention.
5. Stop filling up the mods inbox with complaints... if you are so offended by something someone says leave that particular thread... if that person attacks you personally time and again it might be appropriate to let a mod know... but give them concrete evidence of an attack, don't just say your offended.0 -
I'm also known as a habitual line stepper and stirrer of the pot. It's not something I do intentionally, as I simply state my opinion on a topic.
Contrary to what most think, I'm views aren't sexist and aren't meant to be demeaning to females in any way. If you take it this way, then I'm sorry. Please take a step back, re-read the thread (to find out what I'm responding to), and just realize it's one man's response to the question asked. If you're afraid of a typical male answer, don't ask the question.
It all comes down to the fact that women on here don't like what I stand for. I'm the establishment, the status quo.. the "old guard" if you will. I'm the silent majority of how many men feel in the real world. Most men won't tell you how they really feel on a topic.. however I don't have any reservations about it.
So much this.
I believe in being honest, most men stay away from honesty
because it leads to excessive issues when it comes to women.
I however, try and give an honest opinion if that is truly want you want.
If you are simply seeking validation, then please say so, I will not
respond to your post.
However if you want an honest opinion, I will give you one. Regardless
of consequences.0 -
It's really simple gang...
1. don't call people names or attack them personally... attack their point if you disagree with it.
2. You don't need the last word in every thread
3. You're not going to change someone's mind with a 15th reply to their counter argument.... kicking a dead horse does absolutely nothing, if you haven't found mutual ground by your 3rd or 4th reply in an argument it isn't going to happen, so simply agree to disagree.
4. just because someone has a differing view than yours doesn't mean it's offensive and you should go reporting it. I think we have all done a pretty good job of recognizing trolls in this group and they usually leave when they don't get attention.
5. Stop filling up the mods inbox with complaints... if you are so offended by something someone says leave that particular thread... if that person attacks you personally time and again it might be appropriate to let a mod know... but give them concrete evidence of an attack, don't just say your offended.
Pretty good! :bigsmile:0 -
I wasn't once referring to you Zach. I wasn't even aware that you were the person that he PMed.0
-
It's really simple gang...
1. don't call people names or attack them personally... attack their point if you disagree with it.
2. You don't need the last word in every thread
3. You're not going to change someone's mind with a 15th reply to their counter argument.... kicking a dead horse does absolutely nothing, if you haven't found mutual ground by your 3rd or 4th reply in an argument it isn't going to happen, so simply agree to disagree.
4. just because someone has a differing view than yours doesn't mean it's offensive and you should go reporting it. I think we have all done a pretty good job of recognizing trolls in this group and they usually leave when they don't get attention.
5. Stop filling up the mods inbox with complaints... if you are so offended by something someone says leave that particular thread... if that person attacks you personally time and again it might be appropriate to let a mod know... but give them concrete evidence of an attack, don't just say your offended.
Pretty good! :bigsmile:
Agreed. Those 5 bullet point items are good advice.0 -
It's really simple gang...
1. don't call people names or attack them personally... attack their point if you disagree with it.
2. You don't need the last word in every thread
3. You're not going to change someone's mind with a 15th reply to their counter argument.... kicking a dead horse does absolutely nothing, if you haven't found mutual ground by your 3rd or 4th reply in an argument it isn't going to happen, so simply agree to disagree.
4. just because someone has a differing view than yours doesn't mean it's offensive and you should go reporting it. I think we have all done a pretty good job of recognizing trolls in this group and they usually leave when they don't get attention.
5. Stop filling up the mods inbox with complaints... if you are so offended by something someone says leave that particular thread... if that person attacks you personally time and again it might be appropriate to let a mod know... but give them concrete evidence of an attack, don't just say your offended.
Pretty good! :bigsmile:
Agreed. Those 5 bullet point items are good advice.
I would like to sign on to these rules as well.0 -
We all have the ability to stop fueling the fire when someone is just throwing out personal attacks or keeps saying others are attacking him/her when they’re not. Or keeps making arguments based on personal prejudice or personal issues rather than what is written.
If I respond to a jerky, disrespectful post, it’s NOT for the benefit of the person I’m “debating” but rather for the benefit of others reading who I hope will take away from my words.
There’s many times when someone has responded to me with something like “you don’t have to justify yourself to ME” and I refrain from writing “I couldn’t care less what YOU think… “ since I don’t want to start a flame-war. 9 times out of 10 I’m writing for the benefit of the OP, the inexperienced women on this forum, and the few guys who really want to understand female mentality a little better. “0 -
I don’t take offense to a differing opinion. In my book, saying, “I like young hot girls with fake boobs” is not disrespectful. Saying “you’re a waste and useless because you’re not young and hot with fake books” is disrespectful. Saying “If a woman puts my hand under her shirt I interpret that as a sign she wants sex” is not disrespectful. Saying “you’re attacking me for saying women don’t always mean lets have sex when they put my hand under the shirt” because you don’t like the implication that you might sometimes be wrong is disrespectful (and, imnsho, a poor way to debate).0
-
On any given day I may "side" with some of the ladies or some of the men in this group..two groups that somehow always seem completely on opposite sides of the fence from one another.
Personally though.. I absolutely love the fact that Mike and Zach and other males are here, are outspoken and give their own personal opinions..whether or not they will be liked for them. Don't cater to me.. don't tell me what you think I want to hear. I actually want you to be honest. Really honest! I can take it. Because whether we like it or not.. there are lots of men out there with these opinions..rarely on the surface though. I find it so refreshing.
Do you know how boring this group would be if it was all single women in here, wondering what they were doing wrong and why they were still single? Hey.. you may not want to date the men in here..but at least appreciate they bring a different opinion and viewpoint in which to consider.
I don't always agree with everyone, you'll notice. But as long as basic common courtesy is followed, I find the discussion valuable and really actually appreciate these conversations.0 -
I don’t take offense to a differing opinion. In my book, saying, “I like young hot girls with fake boobs” is not disrespectful. Saying “you’re a waste and useless because you’re not young and hot with fake books” is disrespectful. Saying “If a woman puts my hand under her shirt I interpret that as a sign she wants sex” is not disrespectful. Saying “you’re attacking me for saying women don’t always mean lets have sex when they put my hand under the shirt” because you don’t like the implication that you might sometimes be wrong is disrespectful (and, imnsho, a poor way to debate).
Hear hear. :drinker:
While I appreciate differing opinions, that appreciation stops when the "opinion" is disrespectful or offensive. I am guilty of stating my own thoughts in a less than accurate way and so when I see something like this, I take a moment to say "Hey, this is how XYZ is coming across, are you sure you don't mean it differently?". Sometimes people take the time to say "Oh, derp, I am wrong! Here's what I meant". Other times this is not the case. In which instance if someone is being prejudice I refuse to take the stance of "how cute, this is how some people think" I take the stance of "Gross. This is how some people think." because, and I've said it before, allowing prejudice based on gender/age/sexuality/race/whatever is the seed to hate crimes big and small. Unacceptable.0 -
This is the Single Peeps forum isn't it? I'd expect to see less fighting and more flirting.
Dudes: Quit listening to what they say and agree with them and stare at their boobs like you do in real life. And be a wingman to the other dudes.
Gals: Just laugh at our stupid jokes once in a while and tell us how cute we are. You can also tease us with stories about sleepovers and pillow fights.0 -
This is the Single Peeps forum isn't it? I'd expect to see less fighting and more flirting.
Dudes: Quit listening to what they say and agree with them and stare at their boobs like you do in real life. And be a wingman to the other dudes.
Gals: Just laugh at our stupid jokes once in a while and tell us how cute we are. You can also tease us with stories about sleepovers and pillow fights.
Although this post is meant to be humorous, that approach while allowing men
to be more successful at engaging women, contradicts exactly the purpose
of what a forum of people, who are generally seeking advice.
I also hate that mentality, because it allows women to "bully" verbally
while men sit on the sidelines going "well arguing is stupid, I will just **** her and forget her".
That end result definently doesn't benefit women, in their "understanding" of men.
Again, I know it was supposed to be funny, so i apologize if I took it way too seriously.0 -
This is the Single Peeps forum isn't it? I'd expect to see less fighting and more flirting.
Dudes: Quit listening to what they say and agree with them and stare at their boobs like you do in real life. And be a wingman to the other dudes.
Gals: Just laugh at our stupid jokes once in a while and tell us how cute we are. You can also tease us with stories about sleepovers and pillow fights.
you're cute..
how you doin'?
0 -
This is the Single Peeps forum isn't it? I'd expect to see less fighting and more flirting.
Dudes: Quit listening to what they say and agree with them and stare at their boobs like you do in real life. And be a wingman to the other dudes.
Gals: Just laugh at our stupid jokes once in a while and tell us how cute we are. You can also tease us with stories about sleepovers and pillow fights.
Although this post is meant to be humorous, that approach while allowing men
to be more successful at engaging women, contradicts exactly the purpose
of what a forum of people, who are generally seeking advice.
I also hate that mentality, because it allows women to "bully" verbally
while men sit on the sidelines going "well arguing is stupid, I will just **** her and forget her".
That end result definently doesn't benefit women, in their "understanding" of men.
Again, I know it was supposed to be funny, so i apologize if I took it way too seriously.
I agree with this.
Though I also flirt shamelessly, muaha!0 -
1) I've not signed up to a gender war
2) If you are conducting one here I respectfully suggest you note Carl's observation that you are unlikely to solve real world issues via an internet forum. From long experience of observing others trying to do so I will add that invariably such discussions bring put the worst in each other, that real life interactions suffer as a result and that things only start to improve when the person spends less time online and more time out there with real people. No-one changes anothers opinion by turning them into the enemy and shouting at them. The process by which opinion is changed involves such things as listening, empathy and understanding, all of which are in short supply around here now-a-days.
If this continues, single peeps is history. Why not start a new group to argue with each other in, if that is what you want?0 -
This is the Single Peeps forum isn't it? I'd expect to see less fighting and more flirting.
Dudes: Quit listening to what they say and agree with them and stare at their boobs like you do in real life. And be a wingman to the other dudes.
Gals: Just laugh at our stupid jokes once in a while and tell us how cute we are. You can also tease us with stories about sleepovers and pillow fights.
Yes please and thank you, especially to the flirting!
0 -
1) I've not signed up to a gender war
I take issue with that statement. Several people have called it a gender war.
It's not about gender. No one is getting called out because of what naughty bits they may or may not have. People are getting called out because of intolerant of and offensive statements. While there does appear to be a dichotomy, I believe there is a fairly even split amongst which gender falls on which side. Both men and women say "all opinions are beautiful flowers" and there are both men and women saying "That *kitten* is offensive and we won't stand for it". It appears to be more divided by sex because the main perpetrators of both sides just happen to be opposites.0 -
Wow....just wow. I always give advice when someone asks for it, just trying to lighten the mood around here a little bit.This is the Single Peeps forum isn't it? I'd expect to see less fighting and more flirting.
Dudes: Quit listening to what they say and agree with them and stare at their boobs like you do in real life. And be a wingman to the other dudes.
Gals: Just laugh at our stupid jokes once in a while and tell us how cute we are. You can also tease us with stories about sleepovers and pillow fights.
Although this post is meant to be humorous, that approach while allowing men
to be more successful at engaging women, contradicts exactly the purpose
of what a forum of people, who are generally seeking advice.
I also hate that mentality, because it allows women to "bully" verbally
while men sit on the sidelines going "well arguing is stupid, I will just **** her and forget her".
That end result definently doesn't benefit women, in their "understanding" of men.
Again, I know it was supposed to be funny, so i apologize if I took it way too seriously.
And thank you meshashesha and p_j for actually having a sense of humor.0 -
Wow....just wow. I always give advice when someone asks for it, just trying to lighten the mood around here a little bit.This is the Single Peeps forum isn't it? I'd expect to see less fighting and more flirting.
Dudes: Quit listening to what they say and agree with them and stare at their boobs like you do in real life. And be a wingman to the other dudes.
Gals: Just laugh at our stupid jokes once in a while and tell us how cute we are. You can also tease us with stories about sleepovers and pillow fights.
Although this post is meant to be humorous, that approach while allowing men
to be more successful at engaging women, contradicts exactly the purpose
of what a forum of people, who are generally seeking advice.
I also hate that mentality, because it allows women to "bully" verbally
while men sit on the sidelines going "well arguing is stupid, I will just **** her and forget her".
That end result definently doesn't benefit women, in their "understanding" of men.
Again, I know it was supposed to be funny, so i apologize if I took it way too seriously.
And thank you meshashesha and p_j for actually having a sense of humor.
I played along too 8(
Maybe I was too subtle...
LOOK! BEWBIES!0 -
Oh yeah you're okay too kits, I must have....I played along too 8(
Maybe I was too subtle...
LOOK! BEWBIES!
Did somebody say boobies?0 -
Oh yeah you're okay too kits, I must have....I played along too 8(
Maybe I was too subtle...
LOOK! BEWBIES!
Did somebody say boobies?
I am smart and independent. My breasticles told me so.
Disclaimer: those are not actually my bits.0 -
when I see something like this, I take a moment to say "Hey, this is how XYZ is coming across, are you sure you don't mean it differently?". Sometimes people take the time to say "Oh, derp, I am wrong! Here's what I meant".
Agree with you on this.
I can even think of an instance last week when one person said something, another person was like "what?" and I interjected what I thought in hopes of explaining what the person thought. I agree on giving the person a chance to explain what they really meant.0
This discussion has been closed.