I am a tramp.
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No one is assuming exclusivity, Amazona was just originally saying that she was telling the guy no until they're exclusive - which is totally fine until you learn that there are other people who are getting the goods and aren't held to the same standards. Not saying anyone is a bad person, I just don't understand the logic.
I don't get it either...and I'm not saying this directly to Amazona, or questioning her at all. This just brings up an interesting question/thought. If I was a guy, I would rather a girl fooled around with me from the beginning if she wants to fool around, instead of waiting to fool around with me because she wants to impress me/set a standard for the relationship, but fools around on the side with another guy.
I am not a believer in having sex on the first date, or even in the beginning months of a relationship - it's not for me, and I don't think it helps a relationship. I can't believe saying this, but if you guys and gals here want to have sex that early with a partner, why not? It doesn't work for me, but it might work for you. I think it's better to have sex with one guy than to go and have sex/fool around with another guy on the side because you're worried about what guy A thinks.0 -
That's women's logic, which is as follow:
- The guy A who sleeps with the girl is not a very important guy (the guy with who the girls can't imagine a LTR), so it doesn't matter to actually sleep with him. Throw-away type of guy.
- The guy B who doesn't sleep with the girl is a much more important guy (the guy with who the girls will imagine a LTR), so let's take our time with him. Investment type of guy.
Since I've approached women as guy A by being a complete idiot, I've dipped my biscuit a lot more.
Since men want to dip their biscuit primarily, they should approach women as guy A.
On a side note, this approach is (ironically) valid for LTRs since if you approach girls as guy A, dip your biscuit, make them realise you're actually guy B too and not just a complete moron ("I never thought of him that way...") *snap* they're into you!
Guy B is screwed, guy A screws.
Thank you for introducing the phrase "dip your biscuit" to the group! :laugh::laugh:
I think another term we often use for Guy A is a Friend With Benefits...someone easy and fun...no strings. Aside from what you mentioned, I think A can turn into B due to the dopamine (or 'love') chemicals released in a woman's brain after sex.
Edit to add: I understand how you are explaining the difference, but the logic of holding different people to different standards still doesn't make much sense to me either.0 -
Yes this is Dr. Robinson (not an MD though, a JD).
Nice to talk to you.
Let me translate "girl-ism code" for you (in case you may or may not know). Here's why it's considered "acceptable" for a woman to sleep with a man she cares very little for quickly, & initially deny sex to the man she does care for. Two words... DOUBLE STANDARD.
Woman are labelled as being loose, *kitten*, easy, etc., if they sleep with a man "too soon." While some women do care about men they think could be LTRs & want to sleep with them right away (1st / 2nd date), if they do, most men won't take them seriously. It's the old adage "you can't turn a hoe into a housewife." Women's virtue is held to harsher standard than men's. Sad but true.
Getting to the point, when a woman denies the man she really cares for sex, it's because she wants him to respect her, to take her serious. She doesn't wanna be punished by the double standard if she gives it up too soon (even if she really wants to). Whereas with a guy she's not serious about, she could care less what he thinks of her. So there's no double standard punishment. The double standard's irrelevant at that point.
I know it seem counter intuitive, but that's the reality. Of course exceptions do exist, but that's the general rule of thumb.0 -
Getting to the point, when a woman denies the man she really cares for sex, it's because she wants him to respect her, to take her serious. She doesn't wanna be punished by the double standard if she gives it up too soon (even if she really wants to). Whereas with a guy she's not serious about, she could care less what he thinks of her. So there's no double standard punishment. The double standard's irrelevant at that point.
I know it seem counter intuitive, but that's the reality. Of course exceptions do exist, but that's the general rule of thumb.
I agree with that. But wouldn't a guy rather have a girl sleep with him early than find out she was having sex with another guy to get that need of her filled while getting the emotional need filled with him??
Men?0 -
Yes this is Dr. Robinson (not an MD though, a JD). Nice to talk to you.
Let me translate "girl-ism code" for you (in case you may or may not know). Here's why it's considered "acceptable" for a woman to sleep with a man she cares very little for quickly, & initially deny sex to the man she does care for. Two words... DOUBLE STANDARD.
Woman are labelled as being loose, *kitten*, easy, etc., if they sleep with a man "too soon." While some women do care about men they think could be LTRs & want to sleep with them right away (1st / 2nd date), if they do, most men won't take them seriously. It's the old adage "you can't turn a hoe into a housewife." Women's virtue is held to harsher standard than men's. Sad but true.
Getting to the point, when a woman denies the man she really cares for sex, it's because she wants him to respect her, to take her serious. She doesn't wanna be punished by the double standard if she gives it up too soon (even if she really wants to). Whereas with a guy she's not serious about, she could care less what he thinks of her. So there's no double standard punishment. The double standard's irrelevant at that point.
I know it seem counter intuitive, but that's the reality. Of course exceptions do exist, but that's the general rule of thumb.
Hey whats happening
Yeah but I get all that totally. Im a male so no news for me haha. What im getting at is that this is happening all at the same time, dating one guy and not fooling around much, then fooling around a lot with some other randoms simultaneously! Thats whats not cool about it to me.0 -
If a guy doesn't want to be in a relationship with me because I had sex with him, then he's an idiot and I'll move on to someone that's more rational and less moronic. If we're spending time together and getting to know each other and my personality is overshadowed by "We had awesome sex, that means I can't introduce her to my mother" then thank goodness Iearned what an idiot you were before I got too emotionally invested. Thanks for the time saver!0
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Again it goes back to the "exclusive conversation." If the conversation's been had & there's a mutual agreement, then I agree with you, people shouldn't continue to sleeping with multiple partners. But if the convo hasn't happened yet, or people aren't communicating what they consider acceptable, then you really can be mad at the person who's a sex multiplex. It all boils down to communication.
Relationships are gray areas. People have to verbalize what they want and how they feel0 -
I can multi-chat, multi-flirt, multi-date and maybe multi-kiss...but I can't multi-sex. Just can't do it. I only seem to really, really like one person at a time. Too emotional and too forgetful...I would so call out the wrong name..0
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Again it goes back to the "exclusive conversation." If the conversation's been had & there's a mutual agreement, then I agree with you, people shouldn't continue to sleeping with multiple partners. But if the convo hasn't happened yet, or people aren't communicating what they consider acceptable, then you really can be mad at the person who's a sex multiplex. It all boils down to communication.
Relationships are gray areas. People have to verbalize what they want and how they feel
Also just to touch on the double standards, I dont think its any worse for a girl to sleep around than a guy. It's just I dont have to worry about where a guys been casue I dont have to sleep with him LOL. But where it becomes an issue, is when someone who I want to get down and dirty with has just recently, like possibly yesterday, been down and dirty with someone else, without me knowing then that would be cause for concern.
If anyones going to "hoe" it up, least have the deceny to tell them your doing so, let them make their own mind up.0 -
Getting to the point, when a woman denies the man she really cares for sex, it's because she wants him to respect her, to take her serious. She doesn't wanna be punished by the double standard if she gives it up too soon (even if she really wants to). Whereas with a guy she's not serious about, she could care less what he thinks of her. So there's no double standard punishment. The double standard's irrelevant at that point.
I know it seem counter intuitive, but that's the reality. Of course exceptions do exist, but that's the general rule of thumb.
Oh, I'm sure he'd REALLY respect her if he found out she was shagging someone else!!! :noway:
And this is 'acceptable' in America is it??
Wow!!
I'd say it's blatantly dishonest!!! Who on earth is this 'moralistic' woman trying to kid??? Herself or the guy she's trying to 'impress'?? No wonder divorce rates are so high if you're entering into a relationship on that premise............Jeez!! :huh:0 -
Getting to the point, when a woman denies the man she really cares for sex, it's because she wants him to respect her, to take her serious. She doesn't wanna be punished by the double standard if she gives it up too soon (even if she really wants to). Whereas with a guy she's not serious about, she could care less what he thinks of her. So there's no double standard punishment. The double standard's irrelevant at that point.
I know it seem counter intuitive, but that's the reality. Of course exceptions do exist, but that's the general rule of thumb.
Oh, I'm sure he'd REALLY respect her if he found out she was shagging someone else!!! :noway:
And this is 'acceptable' in America is it??
Wow!!
I'd say it's blatantly dishonest!!! Who on earth is this 'moralistic' woman trying to kid??? Herself or the guy she's trying to 'impress'?? No wonder divorce rates are so high if you're entering into a relationship on that premise............Jeez!! :huh:
I feel like that's the point that's being glossed over in this entire conversation.
It doesn't have to do with a woman sleeping with someone at their whim
It isn't a woman holding out
It has to do with person A telling person B that they're holding out, and person B respecting that, but person A is having sex with person C without person B being any the wiser, because person B is busy upholding the morality that person A has imposed on the relationship.
Why is that so hard to miss?0 -
I'm not sure why lol. It was majorly obvious to me.0
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That's the point. And you're perfectly right IF things are equal between men and women.
It has to do with person A telling person B that they're holding out, and person B respecting that, but person A is having sex with person C without person B being any the wiser, because person B is busy upholding the morality that person A has imposed on the relationship.Oh, I'm sure he'd REALLY respect her if he found out she was shagging someone else!!! :noway:
Because what YOU forget is that it is still more acceptable for a man to sleep around than a woman.
I've seen many men here (excluding me!) saying that they wouldn't normally consider a girl with who they sleep on the first night a "serious relationship". Girls hear you!
So similarly they won't sleep with a man they consider for a LTR on the first night (or a certain number of nights) if they want a serious relationship (because it would send the wrong signals, guys it's your fault so don't come and complain about it).
Case scenario:
Imagine a guy who has a friend with benefit, shags her from time to time, say once a week on Friday but they are both aware of what they are.
They guy meets a girl for a date on a Thursday, like her a lot, thinks he would like to date her.
For another 3 weeks he shags his FWB, and from time to time dates the other girl (date girl) for a grand total of 4 times over the course of 3 weeks, at what point he realises that he actually likes the date girl and thinks positively about the "date girl" enough to focus on her (after 4 dates only, in 3 weeks so our man is rather "fast" if we're honest!).
So he decides to stop seeing the girl FWB for sex, and instead starts having sex with date girl after having an exclusivity talk with her (they both agreed).
What's shocking in this story, you tell me. Now replace guy by girl (and the other way around too) and you'll see the point.
(question: should he stop seeing his FWB as soon as he meets the "date girl"? Because that's what you're implying with your point of view.)0 -
That's the point. And you're perfectly right IF things are equal between men and women.
It has to do with person A telling person B that they're holding out, and person B respecting that, but person A is having sex with person C without person B being any the wiser, because person B is busy upholding the morality that person A has imposed on the relationship.Oh, I'm sure he'd REALLY respect her if he found out she was shagging someone else!!! :noway:
Because what YOU forget is that it is still more acceptable for a man to sleep around than a woman.
I've seen many men here (excluding me!) saying that they wouldn't normally consider a girl with who they sleep on the first night a "serious relationship". Girls hear you!
So similarly they won't sleep with a man they consider for a LTR on the first night (or a certain number of nights) if they want a serious relationship (because it would send the wrong signals, guys it's your fault so don't come and complain about it).
Case scenario:
Imagine a guy who has a friend with benefit, shags her from time to time, say once a week on Friday but they are both aware of what they are.
They guy meets a girl for a date on a Thursday, like her a lot, thinks he would like to date her.
For another 3 weeks he shags his FWB, and from time to time dates the other girl (date girl) for a grand total of 4 times over the course of 3 weeks, at what point he realises that he actually likes the date girl and thinks positively about the "date girl" enough to focus on her (after 4 dates only, in 3 weeks so our man is rather "fast" if we're honest!).
So he decides to stop seeing the girl FWB for sex, and instead starts having sex with date girl after having an exclusivity talk with her (they both agreed).
What's shocking in this story, you tell me. Now replace guy by girl (and the other way around too) and you'll see the point.
(question: should he stop seeing his FWB as soon as he meets the "date girl"? Because that's what you're implying with your point of view.)
Ill be honest here, I would say he should for sure. Maybe cause I'm older now, I think differently. *kitten* if you actually like someone keep your respective bits in your pants and go a long for the ride. If its just a fwb situation, who really cares if they get their nose out of joint. Then you can concentrate on the important person.0 -
That's cool! I totally agree with you on this bit:Ill be honest here, I would say he should for sure. Maybe cause I'm older now, I think differently. *kitten* if you actually like someone keep your respective bits in your pants and go a long for the ride. If its just a fwb situation, who really cares if they get their nose out of joint. Then you can concentrate on the important person.
"Then you can concentrate on the important person."
Where we disagree is probably the definition of "important person".
To me, someone you haven't dated more than a few times (I'm talking less than 4 times in my story!!!) shouldn't change your life and shouldn't *want or expect* to change your life/schedule. That would be really arrogant on their part.
It would be too early for me to give up on my FWB for potentially nothing (less than 4 dates, remember?).
For someone who dates a lot, that would be the end of their FWB relationship for a succession of potential failed dates that you cannot necessarily bring to the "bed" stage (and since we all have needs... FWB is valuable).
How I do it personally? Personally, I don't have a FWB and I have sex as early as possible with the girls I meet so normally I don't really have the issue. If I had a FWB I would have had the issue...0 -
Yes this is Dr. Robinson (not an MD though, a JD). Nice to talk to you.
Let me translate "girl-ism code" for you (in case you may or may not know). Here's why it's considered "acceptable" for a woman to sleep with a man she cares very little for quickly, & initially deny sex to the man she does care for. Two words... DOUBLE STANDARD.
Woman are labelled as being loose, *kitten*, easy, etc., if they sleep with a man "too soon." While some women do care about men they think could be LTRs & want to sleep with them right away (1st / 2nd date), if they do, most men won't take them seriously. It's the old adage "you can't turn a hoe into a housewife." Women's virtue is held to harsher standard than men's. Sad but true.
Getting to the point, when a woman denies the man she really cares for sex, it's because she wants him to respect her, to take her serious. She doesn't wanna be punished by the double standard if she gives it up too soon (even if she really wants to). Whereas with a guy she's not serious about, she could care less what he thinks of her. So there's no double standard punishment. The double standard's irrelevant at that point.
I know it seem counter intuitive, but that's the reality. Of course exceptions do exist, but that's the general rule of thumb.
Exactly. And alcohol.0 -
That's cool! I totally agree with you on this bit:Ill be honest here, I would say he should for sure. Maybe cause I'm older now, I think differently. *kitten* if you actually like someone keep your respective bits in your pants and go a long for the ride. If its just a fwb situation, who really cares if they get their nose out of joint. Then you can concentrate on the important person.
"Then you can concentrate on the important person."
Where we disagree is probably the definition of "important person".
To me, someone you haven't dated more than a few times (I'm talking less than 4 times in my story!!!) shouldn't change your life and shouldn't *want or expect* to change your life/schedule. That would be really arrogant on their part.
It would be too early for me to give up on my FWB for potentially nothing (less than 4 dates, remember?).
For someone who dates a lot, that would be the end of their FWB relationship for a succession of potential failed dates that you cannot necessarily bring to the "bed" stage (and since we all have needs... FWB is valuable).
How I do it personally? Personally, I don't have a FWB and I have sex as early as possible with the girls I meet so normally I don't really have the issue. If I had a FWB I would have had the issue...
Hahaha. I was single for 4 years at one stage, no anything, in my 20's. I'm sure I could survive without the fwb. Always ends up messy, but that's been some to death in here.
I hear what your saying, but I guess it's subjective to how you think things will go and how much value that person potentially holds for you. If I was really feeling the girl, I would give up everything else and take the risk. I'm a hopeless romantic at heart so I like to have faith in it and I'm a pretty much all or nothing type of guy as well. You'll know either way how I'm feeling and I just cant spread myself across multiple partners of any kind.
That's just me though. If people want to mess around whilst imposing different standards on someone they are dating, feel free. Just not best idea in my mind. I wouldn't want it done to me, so wouldn't do it either.0 -
I think that we this discussion should be taken elsewhere so I don't have to look at me calling myself a tramp every day! lol
I don't think that Diana was imposing a double standard on her guy. I think she just changed her mind. Which .. one is allowed to do. Its not like after she decided to throw caution to the wind that she was still holding her front runner to the exclusive rule while letting someone else go further.0 -
I think that we this discussion should be taken elsewhere so I don't have to look at me calling myself a tramp every day! lol
Ask Carl to edit the title? Or delete it? I think the mods can magic it away somehow :flowerforyou:0
