That Was No "Accident"

DMZ_1

Another Details article struck me as fodder for discussion. This article (http://www.details.com/sex-relationships/marriage-and-kids/200610/did-your-girlfriend-trick-you-into-fatherhood?currentPage=1) describes what I would call the intentional unintentional pregnancy.

Getting tricked into fatherhood by a woman hell-bent on getting pregnant is much more common than you think according to the author of the article.

The reader is placed into the scenario of an approximately 30 year old couple in a steady relationship but the man is not ready for fatherhood. It is reasonably assumed that precautions have been taken to prevent a pregnancy. However, one morning, much to the surprise of the male, he is told by his girlfriend that she's pregnant. This is a common scenario for men.

What do you make of this phenomenon? Is it the man's responsibility to always wear a condom, regardless of whether or not his steady significant other is on a form of birth control? Is it unfair to men that once fertilization happens, his control of the situation is near nothing. Are women justified in using pregnancy to nudge a guy into growing up because of the maternal instinct/limited fertility window?

MissingMinnesota

I don't think it is a phenomenon because pregnancy used by women for thousands of years to "nudge" a man in to marriage. I think it is a poor standing to start a marriage on lies from either side of the relationship and this would be a major lie from the woman. Really how could the guy trust her after doing something that would affect not only their lives but the lives of what potentionally be a child.
I am suprised that more cases like this haven't resulted in legal action for fraud when the couple breaks up and the woman decides she wants child support. I think the guy has every right to try and sue the woman back for fraud, as she committed fraud by saying she was on birth control.

TheKitsune6

I've heard of this before and it's creepy as hell. My friend is a product of this, and I suspect I am as well.

While I think it's disgusting and dishonest for a woman to do such a thing, it's part of the risk of being in a long term relationship. There are genuinely "oopsie" babies that are a product of forgetting a pill one day, not using a condom the next, scheduling a depo shot just a little too late... When you regularly have sex with an individual you should expect that someday pregnancy is going to happen - and you can't pull the "but I didn't WANT a baby!" card at that point, unless you were forced to have sex against your will.

So yeah, if you don't want a baby, don't have sex with a woman for 8 years without using a condom. In fact, I hear there have been great strides in the form of male birth control pills. So start taking that when it becomes available. Another precaution is to discuss ahead of time you two plan to do should an unexpected baby occur.

On that note, plots like this come from crazy *****es, so stop dating them, geez. Maybe the dude should be less surprised since he probably has an inkling that the woman is insane.

kls13la

Is it the man's responsibility to always wear a condom, regardless of whether or not his steady significant other is on a form of birth control?

If I was a man I would never have sex without a condom unless I was prepared to deal with a baby. I think men are way too trusting when it comes to believing "I'm on the Pill!" and "I take it every day at the same time, trust me!" The reality is that you have no idea if I'm taking my pill, if I'm following the directions properly, etc., unless you watch me do it every day. And even then you could still become a daddy. I think a lot of men hate sex with condoms so much that they just believe it when women say they are on the Pill, and it doesn't occur to them that there could be some bad results.

Is it unfair to men that once fertilization happens, his control of the situation is near nothing.

I actually feel for men in this regard. All of the decision making power is with the woman, and the guy has to then pay for the rest of his life. Part of the problem is that it would be very difficult -- if not impossible -- to prove that the woman got pregnant on purpose. And beyond that -- it's isn't the kid's fault. If you are the father, you have to support the kid, whether you like it or not. The state isn't going to punish the kid because the mom is a terrible person.

Are women justified in using pregnancy to nudge a guy into growing up because of the maternal instinct/limited fertility window?

No way. This is a terrible thing to do to someone. It's bad enough if it were to happen on complete accident -- but to plan it that way...just no. And who wants to live like that, knowing that a guy may only be with you because you got pregnant? No thanks.

christine24t

The woman is being dishonest, but if a man is worried about it or doesn't want a chid with that particular woman, he shouldn't be having sex with her or he should be wrapping it up all the time!

Prahasaurus

I always use a condom, even in a committed (exclusive) relationship, unless a pregnancy (unplanned) would not be a tragedy for me.

If they had dated eight years, he should already know she's bat *kitten* crazy and could possibly pull off a stunt like this. So again, while it's still terribly unfair, the guy should not have relied on the woman to prevent pregnancy, unless he was prepared to suffer the consequences.

--P

cinsuccess

It is sad that it happens way too often. I have a friend who that happened to. The girl insisted she was on the pill and then "surprise" but he went one further and fought for custody and won. Now the mother only gets visitation and SHE has to pay child support to HIM! I thought that was great!!

grum84

Yeah, I always wear a condom no matter what. Of course I have actually always taken that a step further and the only women I have had sex with were also on something (pill or whatever) to prevent pregnancy.

That way just in case something happened with the condom, there will hopefully be another line of defense.

While I think it would be fun to be a father, I honestly don't want any child to have my genes. I would rather not pass on my gene pool and all the wonderful health issues that could possibly come with it. Of course, this is why I have recently started taking more of an interest in single moms. They already have a healthy child and are more apt to not want another (this is a generalization).

MikeM53082

Like I always say.. Your Plan B is my Plan A.

TheKitsune6

Like I always say.. Your Plan B is my Plan A.

Considering it's 89% success rate, my guess is that you might already be a parent without knowing it! Hahahaha

christine24t

Just read the article. I have no sympathy for these men this occurs to. Sure, the women might be misguided, but you choose where you stick it, men. And you choose whether to wear a condom. Your fate is up to you!

Unfortunately for Jeremy, a 35-year-old technical consultant and musician in New York, the affidavit doesn't provide a legal cover for now. He thought he'd found himself a nice girl. He had just split with his longtime fiancee but explains that this new woman was saying all the right things—even when it came to practical matters. She was on the Pill. She was pro-choice. So she and Jeremy (who's using a fake name) enjoyed a couple of months of unprotected intimacy.

"Jeremy" is a dumba$$.

shammxo

I've heard of this... It's fricking CRAZY.

Both parties need to take precautions. BC and condoms. No exceptions.

It's funny that you posted this(ironic kind of funny)... My friend that I mentioned in the thread I made yesterday has said stuff about doing this type of ****. A few times, actually.

She was all worried at one time and told me a story about how her and this guy she worked with got a hotel room and got busy with no protection. She isn't on the pill.... he didn't ask if she was. She calls me crying because her period is late, blah blah blah. Then she gets it and is all upset because "it would have been nice to have a baby. it would have kept him interested."

A few weeks later she was telling me how she thought she was knocked up. AND I was really confused because I'd thought she just gotten her period. Apparently she had gotten a hotel room with this OTHER guy from work and they did the same thing. Only this time, she told him she wasn't on BC and he didn't care. She ended up getting her period, so she was fine... But don't you learn!?
And just last night she was telling me she wanted a baby so someone would love her. I told her to get another cat.

People are ****ing CRAZY. I don't understand it. Why would you want to "trap" someone who doesn't want to be with you? And bring a child into the world for that reason? Messed up.

FallingInLoveWithMe

A girlfriend did this...it worked they got married. but they hate each other.

RunIntheMud

It makes me sick when women do this.

BUT, it is the responsibility of both the man and the woman to make sure that there is no room for error.

Awkward30

Is it the man's responsibility to always wear a condom, regardless of whether or not his steady significant other is on a form of birth control?

If I was a man I would never have sex without a condom unless I was prepared to deal with a baby. I think men are way too trusting when it comes to believing "I'm on the Pill!" and "I take it every day at the same time, trust me!" The reality is that you have no idea if I'm taking my pill, if I'm following the directions properly, etc., unless you watch me do it every day. And even then you could still become a daddy. I think a lot of men hate sex with condoms so much that they just believe it when women say they are on the Pill, and it doesn't occur to them that there could be some bad results.

Is it unfair to men that once fertilization happens, his control of the situation is near nothing.

I actually feel for men in this regard. All of the decision making power is with the woman, and the guy has to then pay for the rest of his life. Part of the problem is that it would be very difficult -- if not impossible -- to prove that the woman got pregnant on purpose. And beyond that -- it's isn't the kid's fault. If you are the father, you have to support the kid, whether you like it or not. The state isn't going to punish the kid because the mom is a terrible person.

Are women justified in using pregnancy to nudge a guy into growing up because of the maternal instinct/limited fertility window?

No way. This is a terrible thing to do to someone. It's bad enough if it were to happen on complete accident -- but to plan it that way...just no. And who wants to live like that, knowing that a guy may only be with you because you got pregnant? No thanks.

You just said everything I was gonna say!

atjays

Is it bad that I'm more scared of catching an STD than knocking a girl up?? Call it more motivation to wrap it up I suppose.

Have to agree with most others, don't have much sympathy for guys/girls who are too lazy and don't take the right measures to protect themselves from pregnancy. I remember my one big scare in high school from one oops moment and NEVER AGAIN will I endure a month of torture like that lol

castadiva

Oddly enough, this was under discussion last night - a very intelligent (but clearly not very smart!), very good-looking friend has apparently zero common sense and has become a father twice in the last year, without any intention of doing so. I guess the women in question, neither of whom is in need of child support, saw great DNA and decided it was more efficient to get pregnant the old-fashioned way than to go through sperm-donation and IVF to have a child. While theirs is not behaviour I would applaud in any sense, I'm afraid my sympathy for him is non-existent. If you really don't want to be a parent, you need to personally take the precautions necessary to make sure you don't become one. Yes, there will always be the odd one-in-a-million 'oops!' baby, but relying on someone else to take full responsibility for all precautions is idiotic, especially if you don't know them too well.

What do you make of this phenomenon?

Hardly something new - this has been going on since the beginning of recorded history! Given the rise of IVF, and the increase in women having children on their own, an upswing is not particularly surprising, though, if one really exists, and it's not just increased reporting.

Is it the man's responsibility to always wear a condom, regardless of whether or not his steady significant other is on a form of birth control?

If he's adamantly against the idea of becoming a father, then yes. The individual has to take responsibility for him or her self, if a pregnancy/parenthood would be a disaster for them. Absolutely no form of birth control, except a full hysterectomy, is 100% effective, all of the time, so if pregnancy is the end of the world, then double or even triple protection would be wise in any case.


Is it unfair to men that once fertilization happens, his control of the situation is near nothing?

A very difficult question. On the one hand, the risks and effects of pregnancy and childbirth are all felt by the woman, even before you get to the question of raising the resultant child and the relative statistics of mothers walking away from their children as opposed to fathers... Over in the debating group I sometimes play in, there was a heated debate about whether or not a man should be able to abrogate his 'rights' and obligations entirely, if a woman refuses to terminate a pregnancy, which I personally find morally repugnant, and begs the question of proof that the pregnancy was deliberate on her part and that he took all reasonable precautions... On the other hand, a man who wants to be a father, and intends to be involved, or even take full parental responsibility, has little to no control or legally-protected input over decisions affecting a foetus/baby/child that is half 'his' until the child is born, which is an even more difficult question, given the risks and effects of pregnancy previously noted.

Are women justified in using pregnancy to nudge a guy into growing up because of the maternal instinct/limited fertility window?

It's too early in the morning for this tangled web. I'll come back to it once the coffee's kicked in!

flimflamfloz

Is it unfair to men that once fertilization happens, his control of the situation is near nothing?

a man should be able to abrogate his 'rights' and obligations entirely, if a woman refuses to terminate a pregnancy, which I personally find morally repugnant,

and begs the question of proof that the pregnancy was deliberate on her part and that he took all reasonable precautions...

It simply isn't fair from a mechanical and logical standpoint (one has more choice than the other). Now from a moral standpoint is an entirely different question.

I understand women can rarely get pregnant if reasonable precautions have been taken on both sides... Most of the time it is the man being not precautious and the woman abusing this (whatever the motives are).

In an ideal world, a child isn't something people should just sprout for the hell of it.
In the western world, children are a real (financial & emotional) investment and to truly & fully support them, children are supposed to (ideally) be desired and loved by both partners.
This means the woman must say yes, and the man also must say yes to keeping the child.

Assuming there was a genuine attempt from both sides at not getting a child (whatever method was ultimately chosen), or regular conversations about not getting a child (and both partners were in agreement whatever arrangement they came to: i.e. the man wears a condom and the woman doesn't take the pill for example), then clearly it isn't right for the woman to suddenly turn around and decide that she wants to keep the child.
However, should he want the woman to terminate the pregnancy, the man should at this stage offer all his support in the procedures that should follow for the woman (financial & emotional).

If not, then for gender equality, men should get the right to veto any abortion (i.e. they receive a call from a doctor who asks if he wants to keep the child, child the man gets to keep at birth) unless she can prove that reasonable precautions were taken on her side to not get pregnant...
With a vagina comes great responsibility.

castadiva

Is it unfair to men that once fertilization happens, his control of the situation is near nothing?

a man should be able to abrogate his 'rights' and obligations entirely, if a woman refuses to terminate a pregnancy, which I personally find morally repugnant,

and begs the question of proof that the pregnancy was deliberate on her part and that he took all reasonable precautions...

It simply isn't fair from a mechanical and logical standpoint (one has more choice than the other). Now from a moral standpoint is an entirely different question.

I understand women can rarely get pregnant if reasonable precautions have been taken on both sides... Most of the time it is the man being not precautious and the woman abusing this (whatever the motives are).

In an ideal world, a child isn't something people should just sprout for the hell of it.
In the western world, children are a real (financial & emotional) investment and to truly & fully support them, children are supposed to (ideally) be desired and loved by both partners.
This means the woman must say yes, and the man also must say yes to keeping the child.

Assuming there was a genuine attempt from both sides at not getting a child (whatever method was ultimately chosen), or regular conversations about not getting a child (and both partners were in agreement whatever arrangement they came to: i.e. the man wears a condom and the woman doesn't take the pill for example), then clearly it isn't right for the woman to suddenly turn around and decide that she wants to keep the child.
However, should he want the woman to terminate the pregnancy, the man should at this stage offer all his support in the procedures that should follow for the woman (financial & emotional).

If not, then for gender equality, men should get the right to veto any abortion (i.e. they receive a call from a doctor who asks if he wants to keep the child, child the man gets to keep at birth) unless she can prove that reasonable precautions were taken on her side to not get pregnant...
With a vagina comes great responsibility.

Well that's cherry-picking and a half! I'm not entirely sure I understand what you're saying, Flam (or rather, I hope I've misunderstood, as it sounds like you're saying men should have both enforcement and veto rights over terminations?!) but I think you need, for your own safety and happiness, to do some research on the effectiveness or otherwise of female birth control - women on birth control of all sorts can, and do, get pregnant. I wouldn't normally recommend Wiki, but there is a good chart of effectiveness of a wide variety of BC options, both male and female, on this page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_methods

Nothing, repeat, nothing, bar celibacy or a complete hysterectomy, as previously noted, is 100% effective.

kerrymh

If the man doesn't want to be a father for sure..the only one he can trust absolutely is himself. So yes..if he is that adamant about not being a father he should either abstain or condom up.
Not that I'm saying a woman tricking a man is right....no I'm not that is not fair.
But the natural consequence of sex is procreation...so you can expect that consequence if you do not personally take care of birth control. The only person that I can control is myself.

flimflamfloz

Well that's cherry-picking and a half! I'm not entirely sure I understand what you're saying, Flam (or rather, I hope I've misunderstood, as it sounds like you're saying men should have both enforcement and veto rights over terminations?!) but I think you need, for your own safety and happiness, to do some research on the effectiveness or otherwise of female birth control - women on birth control of all sorts can, and do, get pregnant. I wouldn't normally recommend Wiki, but there is a good chart of effectiveness of a wide variety of BC options, both male and female, on this page:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_birth_control_methods

Nothing, repeat, nothing, bar celibacy or a complete hysterectomy, as previously noted, is 100% effective.

Sure, undesired pregnancies happen whether people want it or not (it's in their name). I get that.

What I am saying is that in case of undesired pregnancies (which should be a rare occurrence if reasonable precautions have been taken on both sides), it is not fair that the woman who has agreed to NOT have children with the man previously can ultimately decide to keep the child (without the man's consent).

Currently it is women who have enforcement and veto rights over termination, not men. Which, I agree with you here, shouldn't be the case since apparently some women are being irresponsible about it.

And so I was finishing by saying that for fairness (and gender equality), if women are able to decide to NOT terminate a pregnancy against the will of the male partner, then men should be able decide to NOT terminate the pregnancy of their female partner against their will too.
Of course, I'm not being too serious about this... but it is just so you can understand the situation in which this puts a man.


I agree with Kerry too. Of course men should most definitely make sure from their own side that they are in control of the situation as much as they possibly can.

castadiva

Currently it is women who have enforcement and veto rights over termination, not men. Which, I agree with you here, shouldn't be the case since apparently some women are being irresponsible about it.

:noway: WHERE exactly did I say that women should not have the right to choose whether or not to keep or terminate a pregnancy?!?!? I think you've misunderstood me.

Jennifer2387

My exhusbands ex girlfriend .. lol .. that is a lot of exes .. she faked a pregnancy .. even told him she was having twins .. to get him back. He had broken up with her and she magically shows back up pregnant with twins and he agrees to give it another go around. She allowed him to tell my son he was going to have not one, but two siblings .. blah blah blah. it was all a lie.

People can be horrible.

flimflamfloz

Currently it is women who have enforcement and veto rights over termination, not men. Which, I agree with you here, shouldn't be the case since apparently some women are being irresponsible about it.

:noway: WHERE exactly did I say that women should not have the right to choose whether or not to keep or terminate a pregnancy?!?!? I think you've misunderstood me.

Well... It could absolutely be me misunderstanding you ( :laugh: ), but I understood you said men shouldn't have both rights of enforcement and veto rights over termination, when you said:
(or rather, I hope I've misunderstood, as it sounds like you're saying men should have both enforcement and veto rights over terminations?!)

I'm simply saying that I don't particularly trust women more than I trust men (especially since some women have shown to be not so responsible about it according to the article), so I don't think women should have enforcement and veto rights over terminations either.

Even though you technically didn't extend your thoughts to both genders, in principle I agree with you that men (but also women, and that's my addition) should not have enforcement and veto rights.
So I think women alone shouldn't have this right.

EDIT: Initially, I was giving my answer to this question: "Is it unfair to men that once fertilization happens, his control of the situation is near nothing?" raised in your initial post, the rest of your post, IIRC, I more or less agreed with.

My one line answer goes like this: No, I don't think it is fair, and currently men have got no leverage in this situation (abortion) apart from the goodwill of women. What the people in your discussion group were saying was that by allowing a man to abrogate his 'rights' and obligations entirely (e.g. financial), when a woman decides to keep the child despite the desire of the man, you give the man some leverage and thus make the situation slightly less imbalanced.
I would imagine the abortion (or not) of an undesired child can go very sour, and so it is all about who has the most leverage at the time (like in a bad divorce situation).
If the woman decides to keep the child despite the man not wanting this to happen, then it should become the entire and sole responsibility of the mother without involvement from the father (which isn't currently the case).
However, the limit of this "solution" is clearly that the kids are the ones who always take the biggest hit.

lniffa

This is sick and very dishonest for a woman to do, how can you trust someone by word. I have a friend that got an opsy pregnancy (turns out she planned it) because she missed taking her BC and now her husband actually have the alarm set and watches her take the pill and checks her mouth to make sure she swallowed it. WTF? I never ever have unprotected sex and I always carry condoms and take my BC, I don't understand why women could be so careless by having unprotected sex. Apart from an unplanned pregnancy people there are STDs.

jenbit

This is a sad sad thing to do to another human being. Alot of time it backfires too. The men decide that while they will be a father they no longer want to be with the female.

Personally I am the queen of protection. I have a fully stocked drawer of condoms and your not getting access without one on.I do not take birthcontrol do to a long history of family complications and I always make sure my partner is aware of this.I also let them know that while I am pro-choice my choice would be to have the baby (barring any unepected complications)
They know all of this before we sleep together.
I have never had an accident either or a scare. Both of my children were planned.

Danielle_2013

It is interesting that so many people have heard these stories and use condoms, even in long term committed relationships.
It is not my experience at all. In fact, most of the couples I know have more challenges in getting pregnant than having an accidental pregnancy.

I personally favor the pill over other methods of b/c in a relationship and we simply decided to get tested for everything first. He did ask about the possibility of us getting pregnant and how we would feel if it there was an oops. He would be okay with it. I had to take a deep breath. But honestly.. I am more concerned about infertility and would prefer to adopt anyway.

jenbit

It is interesting that so many people have heard these stories and use condoms, even in long term committed relationships.
It is not my experience at all. In fact, most of the couples I know have more challenges in getting pregnant than having an accidental pregnancy.

My family has a joke that the women in it are so fertile that you walk by the bed unprotected and they get pregnant....

It literally took me less than a month to get pregnant with both of my children

DMZ_1

It is not my experience at all. In fact, most of the couples I know have more challenges in getting pregnant than having an accidental pregnancy.

How old are these couples?

Moe4572

Oddly enough....I have a friend whose college friend just did this to a guy--well, about 9 mos ago. She is still married, but has been estranged from her husband--they have both been dating others. Anyway, she got into a relationship and stated that he may be her last chance for a baby, so she tried to get pg. She, of course, did not tel lhim this--and he assumed (dumb *kitten*) that she was on birth control. He did not ask, so she never had to lie-though I am guessing she would have lied had he asked. When she told him she was pg, he insisted she terminate--she refused. He stated he did not want a baby, and wanted nothing to do with it, and she is ok with that. So, now she has what she wanted--a healthy baby--but with no daddy, which is not so uncommon.

The tricky part.......her friends are telling her he is the father, so she should go to him for child support. Depending on the state, even if he signs away his rights, he could still have to pay child support!!! she is not going to do request child support as of right now.......

jkandktmom

Yeah, I always wear a condom no matter what. Of course I have actually always taken that a step further and the only women I have had sex with were also on something (pill or whatever) to prevent pregnancy.

That way just in case something happened with the condom, there will hopefully be another line of defense.

While I think it would be fun to be a father, I honestly don't want any child to have my genes. I would rather not pass on my gene pool and all the wonderful health issues that could possibly come with it. Of course, this is why I have recently started taking more of an interest in single moms. They already have a healthy child and are more apt to not want another (this is a generalization).

I'm a single mom, lol.