That Was No "Accident"

flimflamfloz

Basically what it comes down to, apparently, in the minds of many of the men here, is that men deserve to have consequence-free complete sexual liberty.

Women, on the other hand, should be punished for their licentiousness (and the suspicion they are all possibly capable of devious behavior) in having sex at all, by taking complete responsibility, which is factually only 50% theirs, for any and all arising consequences eg. Pregnancy and the resulting child.

I might be wrong but I'm under the impression that things are the other way around.
Currently women have a consequence free, complete sexual liberty. Men do not.

I mean the following:
- Should she want to not have a child with the said man, a woman can have 100% confidence she will not be a mother.
- Should he want to not have a child with the said woman, a man can have at best a 95-96% confidence he will not be a father.

If the consequence is "the child" (what else in this context?), one of the two genders above can have complete, consequence free sexual liberty. I will let you figure out which one.

(My entire post assumes that "pregnancy" is different from "giving birth", which as far as I can tell, is accurate)

It's simple - if you have sex, you risk being partly responsible for the conception of a child. Accept the risk, or take action to prevent or diminish it. If you don't, you are culpable and have obligations. Full stop.

In case of a partial mistake (50% man, 50% woman), women can avoid having any obligations by terminating the pregnancy (the desires of the man are irrelevant) while men can never avoid having any obligations (the desires of the man here are irrelevant).

There is simply a gender inequality here.
I don't even see what is wrong with admitting that once the pregnancy is initiated, women have got 100% control over birth, men have 0% control - it's just biological.
(Before the pregnancy and assuming all the precautions have been reasonably taken, they probably have an even amount of control over the pregnancy)

Now... What are the solutions once the pregnancy is initiated?

It's not the same at ALL because it's her body. No one can, or should force to her to make a decision about her body that she doesn't want.

Ok. So all you are saying is that men shouldn't be able to force a woman to CONTINUE a pregnancy or TERMINATE a pregnancy? Sounds fine, I wouldn't want someone to force me to do something to my body either.

It's still the basic idea that sex = babies. Relationship, one night stand, whatever. It's a risk you take when you have sex with someone that 9 months later you might have a screaming, sh*tting, pink wriggler come into your life.

Women can ensure this "risk" falls at 0%. Men cannot. Same as above really.

Carl01

Let me give you all a real life situation that I personally know.

A long time and dear friend who used to be on here had a difficult pregnancy with at one point a doctor advising her to abort her baby.
Due to her personal feelings this left her sobbing in a parking lot and she would not do it.

She had a daughter who is now 8 I think and truly is her life.

She has a thyroid condition that prevents her from taking the pill and with no desire now in her early 40s to have another child for her and their health reasons as well as financial.
In that case the agreed upon method of birth control has been to wear a condom and has worked.

Now lets speculate since that is what the op was anyways and say her husband decides he wants another child so without her knowing it sabotages the rubbers.

He succeeds and she gets pregnant and then for the sake of argument finds out he did it deliberately.
For her abortion is out of the question but regardless that breech of trust knowing her feelings would be devestating.
Even more so to her would be a situation where the child might be lost or handicapped due to complications.

Would I or anyone for one second say that he was anything other then a mother effing *kitten*?
No.

Would anyone suggest that,"well she knew the risks so despite being in a relationship that she thought she could trust she should have done something on her own"?
No.

flimflamfloz

You're right, it's not fair. Nothing will ever make it fair for everyone. That's life. Didn't your parents ever tell you life wasn't fair when you (arbitrary "you" not you speciically) were sniveling about how your older brother got to stay out later than you?

This is a very risky thing to say, especially considering your beliefs about "women rights in society".

TheKitsune6

You're right, it's not fair. Nothing will ever make it fair for everyone. That's life. Didn't your parents ever tell you life wasn't fair when you (arbitrary "you" not you speciically) were sniveling about how your older brother got to stay out later than you?

This is a very risky thing to say, especially considering your beliefs about "women rights in society".

It actually syncs right up with my beliefs, because I'm not just about "women rights in society" I'm about HUMANS rights. I'm also very practical and logical and there is no way in this situation for a woman to have complete control over her body, and a man to have complete control over it too.

That being said I don't have any firm thoughts on whether or not a man should be legally bound to pay for a child he doesn't want. What I speak from, strictly, is how things are now. He is bound by law to support the child, and as such he needs to be aware of the ramifications for his actions. Crying about how it's unfair that he doesn't get a say in whether or not a woman keeps the baby (or not) is medieval.

TheKitsune6

Would I or anyone for one second say that he was anything other then a mother effing *kitten*?
No.

Would anyone suggest that,"well she knew the risks so despite being in a relationship that she thought she could trust she should have done something on her own"?
No.

You, sir, have officially swayed me. You're right. Tricking someone into pregnancy is wrong, and they are the ones that should be 100% accountable for it.

dbrightwell1270

Would I or anyone for one second say that he was anything other then a mother effing *kitten*?
No.

Would anyone suggest that,"well she knew the risks so despite being in a relationship that she thought she could trust she should have done something on her own"?
No.

You, sir, have officially swayed me. You're right. Tricking someone into pregnancy is wrong, and they are the ones that should be 100% accountable for it.

I said it before: the solution is simple:

Simple concept: Storks bring babies. Swallows don't. /thread!

pa_jorg

The problem I have on this topic is that a lot of women's views on here are so incredibly one sided and offensive to the guys on here

I'd be interested in clarification of what this means. One sided because it's her body?

pa_jorg

Believe me, I don't have a "woe is me" attitude as this hasn't even happened to me. I guess this is why I have ZERO sympathy for single mothers as well. It was their choice to have sex in the first place.

Um .. I'm not sure who said this or what context it was said in .. but I have serious issues with this statement. I am basically a single mother now .. but I was MARRIED and it was a mutual agreement of ours to have this child. So now I don't get to feel something about the fact that I am now doing it on my own?? Screw that and screw that statement you made.

:flowerforyou: Jen!

Jennifer2387

the problem is .. people weren't supposed to be having casual sex. You were supposed to wait until you got married to have sex. Sex was there to make babies .. to keep the human population multiplying. It is what you did .. you got married, you had sex, you made a family. People rarely got divorced. Moms stayed home and raised the family .. dad earned the paycheck.

We, of course, as humans have mucked it up now.

Oooh! This was an episode on Greys Anatomy .. Yang got pregnant by accident .. didn't want to have babies. the husband really wanted to have the baby and said I will take it and raise it .. please don't get an abortion. And she was all like, then that baby will know that its mother didn't want it. no. She had the abortion.