Might sound like a stupid question but...
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It is a problem when the person knows damn well that the other party is in love with them, does not feel the same way, and yet continues to ride out the one-sided relationship. This goes for both sexes and both scenarios.
Oh, that's a very good point. I've never really been in that scenario personally.0 -
It is a problem when the person knows damn well that the other party is in love with them, does not feel the same way, and yet continues to ride out the one-sided relationship. This goes for both sexes and both scenarios.
Oh, that's a very good point. I've never really been in that scenario personally.
Neither have I, but I have seen a lot of high school comedy movies so am pretty much an expert here.0 -
Haha thanks. Yeah, classic "nice guy" scenario. I've noticed girls don't really like guys who don't have enough confidence to ask them out, but they'll be friends with them and sometimes use them for attention.
If a guy is offering companionship, emotional comfort, masculine presence, attention, service etc. as guys in the friend zone often do, why wouldn't a girl accept what is comfortable and enjoyable?
Similarly, if a woman offers sex (FWB) to a male friend without any of the complications of relationships, why wouldn't he take advantage of that?
Not saying everyone does, or even should..but I think that responsibility falls equally on the person who is offering up something but perhaps wanting something different. I guess it is really a lesson to ask for or go after what you really want.
It is a problem when the person knows damn well that the other party is in love with them, does not feel the same way, and yet continues to ride out the one-sided relationship. This goes for both sexes and both scenarios.
Very good points made by both of you -- but for the OP, she may not know how he feels. So he should just get it over with
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My thought is that you've mentioned this girl before this thread and that you need to find out one way or the other how she feels about you. I wouldn't recommend one of these "feelings" conversations. I also wouldn't recommend just trying to stick your tongue down her throat in your time alone. Come up with an idea for something to do. Make it clear it's a date before you ever go and see what happens.
My guess though is that she sees you as a friend. If a girl feels sexual attraction and sexual tension towards a guy, I don't think she will fall asleep in his arms when he's never made a move on her. She probably sees you as a nice safe guy with whom she is safe and comfortable.0 -
My guess though is that she sees you as a friend. If a girl feels sexual attraction and sexual tension towards a guy, I don't think she will fall asleep in his arms when he's never made a move on her. She probably sees you as a nice safe guy with whom she is safe and comfortable.
Huh??? That's a classic trick to try and move the friendship to relationship.
It is a low risk way of giving the guy an opportunity to take things to the next level without having a "feelings" talk that will ruin the friendship if he's not interested. He could either just act like a good friend (as OP acted in this scenario) or he could put his arms around her, gently push for more physical/snuggling, and see what happens next.
Of course, this being a short taxi ride she could have just been tired. :flowerforyou:
If you like her, you've got to find out how she feels. This will be tough to do without ruining the friendship, though, unless subtle things like inviting her over to watch some special show and trying to sit close would work.. The problem is, if she's like "what are you doing?" and doesn't seem to be into you, the relationship may or may not be salvaged by saying, "it was so perfect holding you in the taxi the other night, and I am really interested in taking our relationship to the next level" You have to decide if the possibility is worth losing the friendship and whether or not you can continue being friends without her ever returning your feelings if you never push for more.
I tried to be friends with one of the VERY few guys I let know was interested but he wasn't. It just didn't work, and now I regret telling him because it ruined our friendship. If I hadn't said anything, after awhile I would have realized we really WEREN'T perfect for each other after all and I could have stayed friends without having hurt his feelings. But look, I'm tired, so run my advice by some guys first lol!0 -
Women want men to be what they think men are. Generally women think men are assertive and take what they want (this is to an extent, inb4 Kit). Therefore it will reflect better if you just make some plans and ask her to attend.Regardless, in all honesty it probably isn't going to work out for you simply because with women (inb4 Kit) the longer you take to show "interest" the more of a chance that you become one of her "friends".
First of all: LOL, I feel so famous.
Second of all: these are not atypical stereotypes. There are a lot of ladies, ladies on this very forum, that say those traits are exactly what they're looking for. So obviously this woman is either A) not interested because if she was like Jen or me, she would have put the moves on you herself, or she is
waiting for you to make a move.
That being said, if she is the type to wait for you to make a move there is also a chance that she would have put you in the "friendzone". I don't think that chance is high enough to risk not saying something. I firmly believe you would regret it forever by not making a move and waiting until it's too late. Even if you are just friends, the likelihood of her giving that up forever is pretty slim. I have a few guys that I only see as platonic friends and if any one of them told me they had feelings for me it would be awkward for a bit but I wouldn't want to just give up on them as people in my life.
So honestly, I don't think you have anything to worry about. You're not an idiot, you're just scared. Quit hiding and start living.0 -
My guess though is that she sees you as a friend. If a girl feels sexual attraction and sexual tension towards a guy, I don't think she will fall asleep in his arms when he's never made a move on her. She probably sees you as a nice safe guy with whom she is safe and comfortable.
Huh??? That's a classic trick to try and move the friendship to relationship.
It is a low risk way of giving the guy an opportunity to take things to the next level without having a "feelings" talk that will ruin the friendship if he's not interested. He could either just act like a good friend (as OP acted in this scenario) or he could put his arms around her, gently push for more physical/snuggling, and see what happens next.
I disagree. Leaning up against a guy may be a ploy. Falling a sleep is not. What's he supposed to do? Start rubbing on an unconscious chick in the back of a cab?0 -
I disagree. Leaning up against a guy may be a ploy. Falling a sleep is not. What's he supposed to do? Start rubbing on an unconscious chick in the back of a cab?
I've leaned in to a guy trying to give him an opportunity to show he likes me... and felt so comfortable (and was so tired) that I ended up asleep by accident.
And other times I've "fallen asleep" just to see what he would do and when he put his arm around me and pulled me close (not in a sexual way, but in a nice affectionate way), I "woke up," smiled, snuggled in a little more. Turned out he did like me, and that snuggle turned in to a little more. And before everyone jumps me for being dishonest (which they will anyway), keep in mind that once you tell a guy friend you're interested in him romantically the friendship is typically over so I feel that approach was better. Of course, I'm older now, and I don't have a lot of guy friends, so I typically gauge interest by whether or not he asks me out.0 -
Not sure what to say. If you're leaning in as a ploy and end up falling asleep that seems like a bad move.0
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I love seeing the guy tell a girl she is wrong about how girls think and act.0
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What's he supposed to do? Start rubbing on an unconscious chick in the back of a cab?
Wait...am I the only one who finds that a little hot?
LOL0 -
What's he supposed to do? Start rubbing on an unconscious chick in the back of a cab?
Wait...am I the only one who finds that a little hot?
LOL
This would have been my move. I'd have also paid the driver $20 to film it. Welcome to Youtube stardom, babe.0 -
I love seeing the guy tell a girl she is wrong about how girls think and act.
You're point is taken. The few times I've had women lean up against me and fall asleep though, they were either a girlfriend or FWB or something where there was an established physical relationship or they were a good friend who knew they could trust I wouldn't do anything. Of course, it's possible I missed out on opportunites with the latter group.0 -
I love seeing the guy tell a girl she is wrong about how girls think and act.
You're point is taken. The few times I've had women lean up against me and fall asleep though, they were either a girlfriend or FWB or something where there was an established physical relationship or they were a good friend who knew they could trust I wouldn't do anything. Of course, it's possible I missed out on opportunites with the latter group.
Don't worry you aren't necessarily far off. Sometimes people like to manifest counterarguments simply to argue.
I do agree however, falling asleep on someone trying to get them to like you, is about as junior high as you can get.
Of course since now I have "ignited" the gender war, this will be my last post as I am quoted, insulted, slammed etc.
Regardless, back to the OP: Just make the move. The side issues of whether or not falling asleep on someone is flirting is a pointless argument. OP needs to make his move, and I am pretty sure the majority of us can agree on that point.0 -
I love seeing the guy tell a girl she is wrong about how girls think and act.
You're point is taken.
If on the other hand, ladies think this is a great ploy, but the men don't catch the hint...well then ladies, maybe we're wasting our time with the "friendly snuggle that could lead to more." Hmmmmmmm.0 -
Guess it is back to sticking our tongues down throats and grabbing junk.0
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well then ladies, maybe we're wasting our time with the "friendly snuggle that could lead to more." Hmmmmmmm.
I didn't say anything about the "friendly snuggle" I was talking about falling asleep.0 -
Ok. Well this got going a bit while I was gone!
Just to clarify the whole thing once and for all and to try and explain my reservations about doing anything, I haven't had feelings for her for 19 years, only recently. And for less time than people have been linking us.
But when we started getting close she knows that I had just been diagnosed as severely depressed, having severe anxiety and extremely low self esteem. I was also very hung up on my ex. I am now mentally in a lot better place and a lot of that is down to her. But still have low esteem. like a lot of you am 95% sure she isn't interested, mainly cos can do a hell of a lot better than me. I am over my ex and close friends with her as she is within social circle still but don't know if "friend" still thinks have feelings.
As for what happened in taxi, she fell asleep on my shoulder then woke up again so lifted my arm up and let her rest her head properly so she leant in and went back to sleep with arm around her.
I know probably need to do something but if she isn't interested there is no condition on my friendship. Will still be here the same but not sure whether to risk losing it.0 -
Of course since now I have "ignited" the gender war, this will be my last post as I am quoted, insulted, slammed etc.
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What are you talking about?
OP - I would like to change my answer to you based on thislike a lot of you am 95% sure she isn't interested, mainly cos can do a hell of a lot better than me.
The fact that you believe that and are so self deprecating leads me to believe you should actually avoid a relationship until you have time to work on yourself first. Anything you build with another person now will only change and most likely collapse if you don't take the time to fix YOU.0 -
like a lot of you am 95% sure she isn't interested, mainly cos can do a hell of a lot better than me.
The fact that you believe that and are so self deprecating leads me to believe you should actually avoid a relationship until you have time to work on yourself first. Anything you build with another person now will only change and most likely collapse if you don't take the time to fix YOU.
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Agreed and well said Kit...0 -
The fact that you believe that and are so self deprecating leads me to believe you should actually avoid a relationship until you have time to work on yourself first. Anything you build with another person now will only change and most likely collapse if you don't take the time to fix YOU.
I am in process of fixing me or trying to, and I am a lot more fixed than I used to be, honest! Just don't want to turn around in 5 years time and have her or someone else confirm that there was something there and I missed the signs, which pretty much happened with my ex until she gave up with the signs and asked me out direct (though that did end at least partially due to what you have described Kit), hence my original question.
Above advice from all is much appreciated, though deep down not sure am any closer to decision. If she does only want the friendship and values that, then at end of day don't want to betray that by pushing for something that isn't going to happen, and unlike as someone suggested, if then she did find a great guy I'd be happy for her, it's what she deserves.0 -
Above advice from all is much appreciated, though deep down not sure am any closer to decision. If she does only want the friendship and values that, then at end of day don't want to betray that by pushing for something that isn't going to happen, and unlike as someone suggested, if then she did find a great guy I'd be happy for her, it's what she deserves.
1) You talk about not wanting to betray her if she just wants to be friends. It sounds like you are depriving her of the ability to make that decision or at least tell you the answer to it. Quit making decisions for her and ask her already.
2) Provided you don't act like a spineless doormat, I think most women would kill for a guy is considerate of her and wants the best for her no matter what. That's a large part of the defintion of a great guy that she deserves.0 -
This topic has grated my nerves. If you aren't going to take the advice that has been given why did you ask the question? Do you just want someone to tell you that "yes you are right, you are doing everything perfectly"? I am sorry but this group isn't a bunch of yes people. When the majority of women and men on here agree (which barely ever happens) that you should "grow some balls and ask her out" then do that but do not keep coming back and say "yes I agree but ...". Stop making excuses because you do not want to do what is suggested. You already know that you aren't going to ask her out so stop being the whimpy "good guy" and move the f' on because even if there is something there you are not going to act on it so you better become resigned to the fact that you might have missed out on her.0
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How things might be from HER point of view:Above advice from all is much appreciated, though deep down not sure am any closer to decision. If she does only want the friendship and values that, then at end of day don't want to betray that by pushing for something that isn't going to happen
1) Maybe she sees you as an "older brother" for a variety of reasons. She only wants you as a friend.
2) Maybe she starts developing feelings, a bit like you are at the moment.
3) Maybe she has been secretly in love for all these 19 years and never told you about it.
We don't know. You need to ask her to know if this is 1, 2 or 3.
I think you should be prepared mentally to respond to anything that happens when you ask her out.
- She bursts in laughter... "What... with YOU?!" (be actually prepared for this).
- She politely says that "she sees you as a friend".
- She says "she feels the same".
- She freaks out and takes her distance (this shouldn't happen if you can show you are level headed)
This is a key point.I know probably need to do something but if she isn't interested there is no condition on my friendship. Will still be here the same but not sure whether to risk losing it.
As long as you can be level headed (which everyone can be with a bit of work) and you can kill these "romantic" feelings for her in the eventuality she is not interested, then there shouldn't be any problem with you two staying friends.
I am friends with a few women who "asked me out" and I wasn't interested/available at the time. It can work and I don't think asking a "friend" out necessarily means the end of the friendship (if it is a sane, solid friendship).
This on a side note is precisely why you should ask a girl out as soon as you think you are developing feelings. Because it is easier to kill those feelings once you know where you stand if they are still at the infancy stage (than to be crushed 4 months down the line because you let them grow on you).
And please, please, please... Don't be resentful or make her think in any way that you will be bitter/still secretly in love if she says no. This is the only reason why she would end a friendship that she values: because she doesn't want to hurt you.
This, but I believe that if you don't push too aggressively, and are level headed, you should not lose the friendship unless she freaks out suddenly for no reasons. In which case her friendship wasn't worth much anyway (so it's a win-win).You have to decide if the possibility is worth losing the friendship and whether or not you can continue being friends without her ever returning your feelings if you never push for more.
Remember: Be level headed, be in control of your emotions. So you need to brace yourself for impact whatever decision she makes in the end and be understanding and respectful of that.0 -
Edit: Deleted post
My response is invalid, I should have read more of the other posts, this got waaaay deeper than it should have I think. lol0 -
I never said she wasn't interested, I only said that her falling asleep on you isn't necessarily a sign she's into you. She was either just tired or she was trying to get you to make a move. Could go either way.Ok. Well this got going a bit while I was gone!
Just to clarify the whole thing once and for all and to try and explain my reservations about doing anything, I haven't had feelings for her for 19 years, only recently. And for less time than people have been linking us.
But when we started getting close she knows that I had just been diagnosed as severely depressed, having severe anxiety and extremely low self esteem. I was also very hung up on my ex. I am now mentally in a lot better place and a lot of that is down to her. But still have low esteem. like a lot of you am 95% sure she isn't interested, mainly cos can do a hell of a lot better than me. I am over my ex and close friends with her as she is within social circle still but don't know if "friend" still thinks have feelings.
As for what happened in taxi, she fell asleep on my shoulder then woke up again so lifted my arm up and let her rest her head properly so she leant in and went back to sleep with arm around her.
I know probably need to do something but if she isn't interested there is no condition on my friendship. Will still be here the same but not sure whether to risk losing it.
But if it was her way of trying to subtly show you that she likes you and you do nothing, then it's probably never going to happen. She will just assume you don't like her back or are still hung up on your ex or something. You cannot wait around for a clearer signal from her because you're likely never going to get it.
I think it's worth risking the friendship. If it's a really good friendship then it will survive. If it isn't then you probably won't see much of her once she starts dating someone somewhat seriously.
So just do it, there's no point of you both sitting around wondering if the other person is into you, just communicate. "Hey, remember when you fell asleep in my arms in the cab the other night? I'm not sure if it meant anything but I liked it. Any chance you want to catch a movie this weekend and hold hands?" Or something like that.0 -
This topic has grated my nerves. If you aren't going to take the advice that has been given why did you ask the question? Do you just want someone to tell you that "yes you are right, you are doing everything perfectly"? I am sorry but this group isn't a bunch of yes people. When the majority of women and men on here agree (which barely ever happens) that you should "grow some balls and ask her out" then do that but do not keep coming back and say "yes I agree but ...". Stop making excuses because you do not want to do what is suggested. You already know that you aren't going to ask her out so stop being the whimpy "good guy" and move the f' on because even if there is something there you are not going to act on it so you better become resigned to the fact that you might have missed out on her.
Ok so this is the last post i'll make on this topic seeing as caused such offence.
I posted on here precisely because people weren't yes people on here, i wanted to be told whether i was an idiot or seeing/hoping for something that wasnt there. i wanted honest objective views which is what I got thankfully from 99% of the people.
I may well decide to make a move, but at the end of the day I have to decide based on the advice as well as other factors, as its not just a black and white situation. I may be a wimp to you but I see it as not just single-mindedly trying to change things for my selfish wishes, without considering things first.
Again if people feel I went into too much detail etc or shouldnt have started topic then I apologise, as I said the advice given is appreciated, and i will make a decision based on it.
Thanks.0 -
I may well decide to make a move....
No you won't.
But despite, that, I was wondering about this for some reason last night. I was thinking you might be able to start talking about some cool event coming up - like a theater performance or something - and slip in something like "Hey, we should go together. Like a date." It's light-years better than "I have to tell you I am secretly in love with you" and might even give some wiggle room for her to say something along the lines of "A date? Haha, that would be funny" without things getting horribly awkward and ending the friendship. Whatever she says, it isn't a marriage proposal and you would be able to gauge the situation based on her reaction. Worst case, you could always back peddle like it was a joke (pu[url]ssy move, but whatever). It's not the most direct approach and could leave some room for ambiguity, but it is better than what you are doing now.
Girls, am I getting warm here?
Edit: Oh. No one else has asked this yet. How hot is she? It's relevant, whether or not it should be. (*takes cover*)[/url]0 -
No you won't.
But despite, that, I was wondering about this for some reason last night. I was thinking you might be able to start talking about some cool event coming up - like a theater performance or something - and slip in something like "Hey, we should go together. Like a date." It's light-years better than "I have to tell you I am secretly in love with you" and might even give some wiggle room for her to say something along the lines of "A date? Haha, that would be funny" without things getting horribly awkward and ending the friendship. Whatever she says, it isn't a marriage proposal and you would be able to gauge the situation based on her reaction. Worst case, you could always back peddle like it was a joke (pu[url]ssy move, but whatever). It's not the most direct approach and could leave some room for ambiguity, but it is better than what you are doing now.
Girls, am I getting warm here?
Edit: Oh. No one else has asked this yet. How hot is she? It's relevant, whether or not it should be. (*takes cover*)
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Oh this is perfect! You're right that it avoids potential awkwardness. But no, her hotness or lack of isn't relevant - he likes her, the end.0 -
I may well decide to make a move....
No you won't.
But despite, that, I was wondering about this for some reason last night. I was thinking you might be able to start talking about some cool event coming up - like a theater performance or something - and slip in something like "Hey, we should go together. Like a date." It's light-years better than "I have to tell you I am secretly in love with you" and might even give some wiggle room for her to say something along the lines of "A date? Haha, that would be funny" without things getting horribly awkward and ending the friendship. Whatever she says, it isn't a marriage proposal and you would be able to gauge the situation based on her reaction. Worst case, you could always back peddle like it was a joke (pu[url]ssy move, but whatever). It's not the most direct approach and could leave some room for ambiguity, but it is better than what you are doing now.
Girls, am I getting warm here?
Edit: Oh. No one else has asked this yet. How hot is she? It's relevant, whether or not it should be. (*takes cover*)
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Actually.. I like this approach a lot. If you aren't confident, you can laugh it off.. but it won't be that awkward situation which would make you probably want to curl up and die.
In terms of the is she hot factor - why would that actually matter? If she's hot she will or won't be more inclined to date him? Because she has other choices? I actually want to know.
To the OP - I challenge you to be honest with yourself. Are you more afraid of "ruining the friendship" or the possible rejection? As someone said, if the friendship is strong it can absolutely take a little blip.0
