And also society is changing and shifting in my opinion, our economic situation has caused many people to finally ask the age old question what is the role of government?

I think this question has been asked more or less nonstop for the past 2500 years, minimum.

--P

actually i was homeschooling until my divorce. my ex is the only reason my kids are in public school. believe me, if he wasn't a controlling and abusive man that still makes my life difficult they would be back home with me. i do not support public school. my point was more about the "free" stuff. my kids can all get free lunch and breakfast at school. but, i don't let them. we could have received free Thanksgiving dinner in our home, like it's all just purchased and dropped off here, again i declined. i could sign up for free christmas gifts, again declined. OH and christmas dinner too!!! i said no thanks.

i did one year of food stamps, and vowed to never do that again. not because of pride either. but on principal. my kids have health insurance through their dad. i chose to BUY myself health insurance instead of taking state insurance.

and yes, in my ideal world my kids and i would live on a mountain side somewhere. i already grow lots of my own food, including chickens. when i had less kids and was married i used cloth diapers, and made a lot of my kids clothing. so, yeah, i am the one that would like to live like that.

and i don't know who is better with their money, i don't really care ( label wise). my dad was very good with money. he was a stockbroker and made a lot of money. he is who i look towards when it comes to money. the man has never had a mortgage or a car payment in his entire life. my grandparents were the exact same way! my dad is a republican. my in-laws ( democrats, all of them) are NOT good with their money. they aren't exactly wasteful, but i wouldn't take any lessons on saving for the future from them. like 20-25 years into their 30 yr mortgage they refinanced for another either 15 or 30 years. the first year i did christmas with them i was soooooo uncomfortable because of the shear volume of gifts under the tree. it was hours worth. i mean, hours and then a break and then more hours........ and it pissed them off that i wouldn't let them spend on my kids like that......

maybe my wording is wrong, but i don't want to be the welfare mom. using the gov't because i can't do it on my own. i refuse to be her...... so, yeah.

i am not liberal. i do need stability in my life. i am raising 5 kids, by myself. i don't want to turn to anything gov't subsidized. i want to be self reliant and raise my children to be the same way.

Congrats. That must be very challenging. My two kids are killing me... :-)

But you know you have government subsidized (i.e. taxpayer funded) schools, right? I assume your kids attend them, and they are taught by government employees (i.e. teachers)? You drive them there on government built roads, I hope, occasionally patrolled by more government workers (police). Etc., etc. You probably rely on something that is "gov't subsidized" just about every hour of every day...

Government has a very important role to play. The question is obviously how large that role should be. But we shouldn't pretend we can live without government, or that we don't rely on government in a fairly significant way, because it's just not true (assuming you're not living in a cave in Montana, shooting game for dinner, sewing your own clothes, bartering with neighbors for goods).

--P

see carl! this is why you need to move to VA and be my neighbor. YOU get me!

i don't have venison, but i do want to have a cow and goats and sheep :-) i have friends that hunt deer and i'm sure i could get one of them to butcher one for me. we aren't a big meat eating family and tend to stick to chicken and fish. i have ducks too, but i don't know that i could eat one of them.......

i'm the fruitcake that belongs to organic Co-ops and CSAs ( community support agriculture).

see carl! this is why you need to move to VA and be my neighbor. YOU get me!

i don't have venison, but i do want to have a cow and goats and sheep :-) i have friends that hunt deer and i'm sure i could get one of them to butcher one for me. we aren't a big meat eating family and tend to stick to chicken and fish. i have ducks too, but i don't know that i could eat one of them.......

i'm the fruitcake that belongs to organic Co-ops and CSAs ( community support agriculture).

:drinker:

I didn't care who won. The guy I thought would do the most good has been out of it for a while (Ron Paul) I said screw it and wrote him in anyway. I figured this way at least I could vote for the person I thought would do the best job.

maybe my wording is wrong, but i don't want to be the welfare mom. using the gov't because i can't do it on my own. i refuse to be her...... so, yeah.

You sound like a wonderful mom who is teaching your kids important values.

My only point is that welfare (and other types of government support) is not a bad thing in times of crisis. Civilized countries need to have safety nets to help people when they are down. Capitalism, while providing great opportunity, can be harsh at times, and temporary support can help people get back on their feet. I suppose the key word is "temporary." But there is no shame in needing help at times, we all do.

The biggest welfare cheats are not the stereotypical (and quite frankly, racist) black mom with X kids, but corporations. The US government, four years ago, bailed out our financial industry to the tune of 19 trillion dollars. Lots of rich, white guys very well connected to our politicians were saved from bankruptcy (and probably jail), thanks to a massive, unfathomable, government handout. The people who least needed the money, got it. That's socialism in the US of A. Bush started it, Obama finished it. It's neither Republican nor Democrat, it's simply a fact: our political system favors the rich and well connected (shocker!), who are BY FAR the biggest welfare recipients in the USA today. And that's a fact.

I do think it's hard for societies to be social (help others when they're down), especially in a multi-racial, multi-ethnic society. It's one thing for a small country with little racial variance to be generous - Austria, for example. It's another for a country of immigrants. Race has always been a huge issue, and it still is. The US is in many ways the first post-racial society, and should be commended. But in many other ways, little has changed. It's all quite tribal. For example, the US doesn't have a national healthcare system because white politicians (under President Truman) refused to vote for a system that took care of blacks, as well. So we have the most expensive healthcare system in the world, and not even close to being the best in spite of the propaganda you hear in the US, because whites refused to be included in a social system with blacks. And a lot of the anti-government rhetoric today is couched in racial terms (but carefully, obviously, since being outright racist is verboten).

But I digress. Good for you that you teach your kids to be self-sufficient. Those lessons will pay off later in life.

--P