Geroge Zimmerman trial

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  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
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  • treetop57
    treetop57 Posts: 1,578 Member
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    From Azdak's link:
    Video of Violent, Rioting Surfers Shows White Culture of Lawlessness

    A frightening and violent mob swept through the normally quiet seaside community of Huntington Beach last night following a surfing competition in the area. Businesses were vandalized and looted, portable toilets overturned, and brutal fistfights waged right out in the open. It was an ugly display and a sad day for California. But more than that, it was a reminder that we must begin to seriously consider the values of our thuggish white youth.

    Many people don't want to hear this kind of tough love, of course. They'd like to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that all white children are as sweet and harmless as Taylor Swift. But the reality is that the statistics tell a different story. For instance, according to research from the Department of Justice, 84 percent of white murder victims are killed by other white people [PDF]. Similarly, white rape victims tend to be raped by other whites [PDF]. White-on-white violence is a menace to white communities across the country, and yet you never hear white leaders like Pastor Joel Osteen, Bill O'Reilly, or Hillary Clinton take a firm stance against the scourge.

    More important than white politicians are the white parents. I'd like to ask the caregivers of the children in these videos what they've been doing. When did so many white parents fall asleep at the wheel? You can complain about poor schools all you'd like, but the fact of the matter is that it's the parents of these children who are letting them leave the house looking like slobs in their baggy board shorts and Hollister t-shirts. It's the parents of these kids who are letting them listen to violent, self-destructive trash like "Anarchy in the UK" or "Now I Wanna Sniff Some Glue"—performed loudly by noted conservative rocker Johnny Ramone.

    As I said, I know a lot of whites don't want to hear this kind of tough talk. But as an American of color who considers himself an ally to the white community, I'm just tired of seeing young, belligerent white people disgrace themselves year after year at surfing events, horse racing infields, and Ivy League campuses. Whites in America have been out from under their European ancestors' boot heels for centuries; California specifically outlawed preferences for nonwhites in state hiring and education nearly two decades ago. So being "oppressed" is no longer an excuse for behavior like this. How long must we wait for the white community to get its act together?
  • soldier4242
    soldier4242 Posts: 1,368 Member
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    Here is an idea. Why don't we all stop putting a color or a nationality in front of the word that is the actual problem. Instead of asking we we will do about white or black juvenile delinquency lets just ask what we can do about juvenile delinquency. A murder is a murder regardless of the races of the people involved. Lets just let go of these vestiges since these serve no purpose and they never have.

    The only things that results from branding crimes with a race or a nationality is that it creates lines of division. It causes people to defend harmful actions simply because they were perpetuated by a member of a demographic group that they share. It causes people to chastise otherwise innocuous actions as worse than they actually are. It is pure insanity and not only is it going to continue people will speak out in its defense.
  • treetop57
    treetop57 Posts: 1,578 Member
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    Good idea. Let's stop three hundred years ago.
  • soldier4242
    soldier4242 Posts: 1,368 Member
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    Wouldn't that be something. It isn't even a new idea. There was this one guy who died before I was even born that said people should be judge not by the color of their skin but the content of their character. I can still remember the first time I heard those words.

    I thought those words would serve as a lesson that we could all live by. I am older now and I am far more realistic. I recognized that this kind of thinking is only going to be confined to a small esoteric group and that the majority of people are going continue to judge others based solely upon the demographic boxes that they fit in. I shouldn't have been surprised by it after all the original speaker blatantly told me in his speech.

    It was his dream. It is only a dream and that is all it will ever be. It was a fantasy cooked up in the mind of an optimist. While it is true that things are better now then they were in his day. I doubt we will ever reach a point where we are all free of prejudice. No matter which side of this debate is correct I think the trial and the fallout that has come from it has only served to prove the forlorn conclusion that we will always care with us the insipid vestiges of our bygone eras.
  • SemperAnticus1643
    SemperAnticus1643 Posts: 703 Member
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    Wouldn't that be something. It isn't even a new idea. There was this one guy who died before I was even born that said people should be judge not by the color of their skin but the content of their character. I can still remember the first time I heard those words.

    I thought those words would serve as a lesson that we could all live by. I am older now and I am far more realistic. I recognized that this kind of thinking is only going to be confined to a small esoteric group and that the majority of people are going continue to judge others based solely upon the demographic boxes that they fit in. I shouldn't have been surprised by it after all the original speaker blatantly told me in his speech.

    It was his dream. It is only a dream and that is all it will ever be. It was a fantasy cooked up in the mind of an optimist. While it is true that things are better now then they were in his day. I doubt we will ever reach a point where we are all free of prejudice. No matter which side of this debate is correct I think the trial and the fallout that has come from it has only served to prove the forlorn conclusion that we will always care with us the insipid vestiges of our bygone eras.

    Sadly, you are correct. There will always be those that believe in racism and believe in it too. Believe it or not, my husband used to run around with a group of guys that believed that way. He obviously changed his view on things. :) We can only hope that people from all races make their decision based upon character and not by the color of their skin just like MLK Jr. hoped for. I too hope for the same. Food for thought: MLK Jr.'s I have a dream speech will mark 50 years on August 28th. 50 years and we are still being shallow. Very disappointing.
  • TheRoadDog
    TheRoadDog Posts: 11,793 Member
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    I happened to be in Orlando when the verdict came in. On vacation. In addition, our resort was near the Convention Center where the NAACP was holding their National Convention. Naturally, Al Sharpton, used the verdict to stir up as much controversey as possible.

    I have my opinions about what happened, but I think I will not share them. I think too many people are sharing their opinions. This whole debacle was tried in the media way before it hit the courts.

    I completely understand the reaction of the friends and family of both sides. They are going to stand by their friend or family member regardless of the facts. If one of my own daughters killed somebody, I would defend them and rationalize it to my death. If someone hurt one of them, I would go after that person with a vengenance. But, everyone else should let the courts decide and quit propagating racism. The persons on the jury sat through the trial, heard all the evidenc (allowed) and made a decision. That's the way it goes. Get over it. Everyone had better realize that Justice and the Law are not always the same.

    I will share my opinion on the NAACP, though. If that stood for National Association for the Advancement of Caucasion People it would be deemed a racist organization. I am tired of being deemed racist just because I am white. By the way, calling someone black is politically incorrect. Calling me White isn't? I want to be called European-American.
  • soldier4242
    soldier4242 Posts: 1,368 Member
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    If your organization is actually named the national association for the advance of any specific race of people it is obviously a racist organization. I don't really thing you can get more blatant about it than that. They are not the National Association for the Advancement of Humanity they were founded to try and level out the playing field in a world where black people were being run right in to the ground. For that matter the united Negro College fund is also a racist organization.

    I think the reason that nobody causes a big ruckus over the NAACP or the United Negro College fund is because neither of those organizations ever went house to house lynching people. What they have done is they have raised the bar of education for a lot of people would have been swept under the rug otherwise. They have cleaned up neighborhoods that were overrun by gang violence and they have worked to pass legislation that benefits their own demographic. Because they are preferring one race of people over another they are undeniably racist but they are not causing more harm then good like the KKK or the Black Panthers were.

    People tend to think that racism has to be violent like in the case of the KKK and don't get me wrong the KKK is a horrid group of despicable monsters that don't deserve the time of day. But the majority of the racism that you see today is in a much softer form. Which makes it far more subtle. Personally I find the concept of racism to be completely illogical and I would love to see it gone but as I stated above I doubt it will ever be more than a fantasy.
  • SemperAnticus1643
    SemperAnticus1643 Posts: 703 Member
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    rac·ism/ˈreɪsɪzəm/ Show Spelled [rey-siz-uhm]
    noun
    1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
    2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
    3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

    I believe that #2 would justify the fact that the United Negro College Fund and the NAACP are racist. But would that also apply to VFW groups (I am under the assumption you would have had to serve in the military to join) or Tribes that require proof of lineage or blood quantum?
  • soldier4242
    soldier4242 Posts: 1,368 Member
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    The VFW are definitely discriminating but I don't think it would be accurate to call them racist because race is not the determining factor for who they discriminate against. Perhaps they could be considered elitist if they think that soldier and former soldiers are better than people that have never served. I am not sure what the word would be for that.
  • TheRoadDog
    TheRoadDog Posts: 11,793 Member
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    The VFW are definitely discriminating but I don't think it would be accurate to call them racist because race is not the determining factor for who they discriminate against. Perhaps they could be considered elitist if they think that soldier and former soldiers are better than people that have never served. I am not sure what the word would be for that.

    Elitist. I guess.

    Racist would be things like the NAACP, KKK, La Raza. Once you create an organization for a specific group of people, someone is going to feel left out.

    I like incidents such as a recent one where a woman wanted to crash a Golf Club that was currently for Men only. What was the point? Why can't guys hang out with their buddies? Can I join Curves?
  • TheRoadDog
    TheRoadDog Posts: 11,793 Member
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    rac·ism/ˈreɪsɪzəm/ Show Spelled [rey-siz-uhm]
    noun
    1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
    2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
    3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

    I believe that #2 would justify the fact that the United Negro College Fund and the NAACP are racist. But would that also apply to VFW groups (I am under the assumption you would have had to serve in the military to join) or Tribes that require proof of lineage or blood quantum?

    Being in the Military is not enough to qualify for the VFW. I was in the Marine Corps from 1972 to 1976 and I am not eligible. Doesn't bother me. I wasn't a Veteran of a Foreign War. I didn't earn it.
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
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    I happened to be in Orlando when the verdict came in. On vacation. In addition, our resort was near the Convention Center where the NAACP was holding their National Convention. Naturally, Al Sharpton, used the verdict to stir up as much controversey as possible.

    I have my opinions about what happened, but I think I will not share them. I think too many people are sharing their opinions. This whole debacle was tried in the media way before it hit the courts.

    I completely understand the reaction of the friends and family of both sides. They are going to stand by their friend or family member regardless of the facts. If one of my own daughters killed somebody, I would defend them and rationalize it to my death. If someone hurt one of them, I would go after that person with a vengenance. But, everyone else should let the courts decide and quit propagating racism. The persons on the jury sat through the trial, heard all the evidenc (allowed) and made a decision. That's the way it goes. Get over it. Everyone had better realize that Justice and the Law are not always the same.

    I will share my opinion on the NAACP, though. If that stood for National Association for the Advancement of Caucasion People it would be deemed a racist organization. I am tired of being deemed racist just because I am white. By the way, calling someone black is politically incorrect. Calling me White isn't? I want to be called European-American.


    New mini-series coming to Fox: "Coots: The History of White Oppression in America".
  • soldier4242
    soldier4242 Posts: 1,368 Member
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    There is an Elk lodge not far from where I live and they invited me to join. I read their brochure and I told them I was not eligible because it says that I have to believe in God to get in. They were actually surprised that I turned them down but I told them that they were the ones to write that in to their own rules. If it was something that they were not worried about then they could take it off and I would consider it. They said that requirement wasn't really enforced but they also said they had not intention of removing it. So we went out separate ways.

    Discrimination is not by definition a bad thing. In many situations it is good. We want people to discriminate when we determine who to hire as a air traffic controller for example.

    In private organizations that do not use any public funding I not only don't mind them discriminating I actually expect it. Clubs and organizations are normally founded for the purpose of bringing like minded people together. That means not including people that are not like minded. But at the end of the day we do have to call a duck a duck and I do see a the same double standard that RoadDog is talking about.

    We have all heard of the television station BET. Do you think that a television station called WET would be allowed to exist? Would it be seen as simply a television station that features white entertainers or would it be called a racist organization?

    For our part the best that we can all do is simply try our best to not be a part of unfair discrimination whenever it is possible.
  • SemperAnticus1643
    SemperAnticus1643 Posts: 703 Member
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    In that case, I can proudly say that I am part of only ONE racist organization. :) Proud member of the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma.
  • soldier4242
    soldier4242 Posts: 1,368 Member
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    In my personal life I actively try to only be proud of the things I have done and not the things that I am.

    I know it is strange for a soldier to say but I am not proud to be an American.

    I am not proud to have Irish heritage. I am not proud to be white and I am not proud to live in Missouri.

    I remember being very proud when I got my degree. I am proud of my A+ Certification. I am proud to be a juggler.

    To me it does not seem to make any sense for me to take pride is something that is simply a happenstance. In order for me to justify being proud of something I would think it would be necessary to put in some sort of effort to accomplish it. The more difficult the thing is to accomplish the greater the pride.
  • fbmandy55
    fbmandy55 Posts: 5,263 Member
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    In my personal life I actively try to only be proud of the things I have done and not the things that I am.

    I know it is strange for a soldier to say but I am not proud to be an American.

    I am not proud to have Irish heritage. I am not proud to be white and I am not proud to live in Missouri.

    I remember being very proud when I got my degree. I am proud of my A+ Certification. I am proud to be a juggler.

    To me it does not seem to make any sense for me to take pride is something that is simply a happenstance. In order for me to justify being proud of something I would think it would be necessary to put in some sort of effort to accomplish it. The more difficult the thing is to accomplish the greater the pride.

    I can get with this as well. I am proud of the things I have accomplished. I have never understood being proud of your circumstance (race, heritage, etc..)