Grrrr EMS people! (rant)
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Now that I've had a good night's sleep, I have to apologize. I re-read my post and yes, Dan is spot on. I knew what I meant to say, but the wires got crossed, no thanks to running on 3 nights with minimal sleep and having had come out of two days of being audited. So, I wanted to apologize for the sloppiness of my post.
(Google had a feature that made you answer simple math questions before sending an email you might otherwise regret sending, with the thought being if you're THAT tired, maybe you should hold off... Maybe the MFP mods should implement that with posts on the boards.
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SyntonicGarden wrote: »Now that I've had a good night's sleep, I have to apologize. I re-read my post and yes, Dan is spot on. I knew what I meant to say, but the wires got crossed, no thanks to running on 3 nights with minimal sleep and having had come out of two days of being audited. So, I wanted to apologize for the sloppiness of my post.
(Google had a feature that made you answer simple math questions before sending an email you might otherwise regret sending, with the thought being if you're THAT tired, maybe you should hold off... Maybe the MFP mods should implement that with posts on the boards. )
It was a not a big deal. It gave me an opening to tell people about the horrors of using insulin\going low and being diabetic. A couple things I didn't mention are, a lot of insulin diabetics have a really hard time controlling their blood glucose levels. Why? Because, after they have a few "low blood sugar" episodes, it becomes a MAJOR worry when injecting insulin. Going low is a horrible feeling. They worry that they will inject too much and go low. So to be safe, they'll inject a lesser amount. But sometimes it doesn't result in enough. Then when you go to the doc, he wonders why your H1AC level is still high. Its a horrible way to control your blood glucose levels.
On the other hand, the Keto diet/WOL is SOOOOOOO much better way to control your blood sugar levels. And you get to eat such wonderful fatty food! Did I mention that since I started the Keto diet, that I don't use the fast acting insulin anymore? Don't need to, not eating pieces of pie, one pound baked potatoes or stacks of pancakes with real maple syrup on them anymore. Yes, the hi-carb tasted good, but I would never be able to control my diabetes properly resulting in years taken off my life and/or having a myriad of other problems associated with diabetes, like cancer & heart attack.
I hope this helps,
Dan the Man from Michigan
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RekindledRose wrote: »You do know that you can refuse medical treatment? Why didn't you just stick up for yourself, show them your ID or threaten to call a lawyer?
Don't blame them for the M&Ms. It's just one pack, not a big deal, but in the end no one forced them down your throat but you.
If you'd read her original post, she said that they said she either eats them or she gets taken to the hospital without her consent. Who knows what that would mean for her? scholastically? emotionally? financially?
Basically they said eat the M&Ms or we will kidnap you and take you away even tho they read her bracelet wrong and were treating her for the wrong thing. So they did, in effect, force them down her throat.0 -
I'm so sorry that happened to you. Frustrating to say the least. With regards to a portable fat bomb option- you might want to try keeping a Justins almond butter pack or something like that with you. It'll do the trick. You could also make your own and put 2 T of something nut-buttery in a small baggie or small container so you can just squeeze it out.0
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That sounds like a scary position to be in, I am sorry. I often wonder if they read the bracelets at all, as I have one that says I have CHF and not to give IV fluids, and that is ALWAYS what they try and do first (I have orthostatic hypotension and have passed out a few times). I am just glad you don't have a peanut allergy!0
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IamUndrCnstruction wrote: »That sounds like a scary position to be in, I am sorry. I often wonder if they read the bracelets at all, as I have one that says I have CHF and not to give IV fluids, and that is ALWAYS what they try and do first (I have orthostatic hypotension and have passed out a few times). I am just glad you don't have a peanut allergy!
Yours sounds worse, and I read somewhere that only 80% of them check for a bracelet period, even less for a necklace.
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Sorry that happened to you. Honestly, in the grand scheme of things, the M&Ms are not going to hurt you. You'll be back into ketosis in 24-36 hours. Just move on.
I am not sure how long you've been on keto, but in the beginning, there is some anxiety of staying under 20g net carbs *no matter what*. Trust me. The 30g from the packet of M&Ms will do you no damage at all. Just limit your carbs again and you'll be fine.
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Sorry that happened to you. Honestly, in the grand scheme of things, the M&Ms are not going to hurt you. You'll be back into ketosis in 24-36 hours. Just move on.
I am not sure how long you've been on keto, but in the beginning, there is some anxiety of staying under 20g net carbs *no matter what*. Trust me. The 30g from the packet of M&Ms will do you no damage at all. Just limit your carbs again and you'll be fine.
Her anger is less about eating the M&Ms and more about paramedics not following protocol. They clearly didn't read her bracelet, which they should have done. They gave her M&Ms, instead of the protocol glucose tablets. They gave her peanut M&Ms, and since they didn't read her bracelet right, could have killed her if she'd happened to have a peanut allergy (this is why the protocol is glucose tablets, not candy). They didn't giver her food she was carrying with her (the alternative to their own glucose tablets). And they gave her the ultimatum of eating the candy or going to the hospital (thereby racking up even more medical bills, not to mention lost time, and the stress of being at the hospital and finding a way back home) all because they didn't read her bracelet properly (or possibly at all).
Also, given her condition, for which being in ketosis is part of the treatment, they actually could have made her situation worse by forcing her to eat 30g of not just "carbohydrates," but pure, refined sugar.
Those were the problems, the M&Ms themselves were just a small part of it.0 -
Well, she also seemed concerned about the ingestion of the 30g of carbs, since she said she was "working out in an attempt to work off the extra carbs". Just pointing out that this is unnecessary and probably needless worrying. But you certainly can feel free to critique my reply however you wish.
I'm not going to comment on EMS protocols, since that is not an area of expertise for me. But I'm pretty sure I said, "I'm sorry that happened to you."0 -
In looking at the OP's log I have to wonder if the passing-out could have been due in large part to simply not eating enough calories. There are an awful lot of days in the past couple of weeks where she ate only ~800 calories. Most nutritionists will agree that an adult woman of any size or activity level requires a MINIMUM 1200/day (1200 is considered the base level for simply maintaining life functions on 0 activity). Frequently eating significantly below that without doctor's supervision is pretty disordered eating, regardless of carbs and/or nuts.0
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In looking at the OP's log I have to wonder if the passing-out could have been due in large part to simply not eating enough calories. There are an awful lot of days in the past couple of weeks where she ate only ~800 calories. Most nutritionists will agree that an adult woman of any size or activity level requires a MINIMUM 1200/day (1200 is considered the base level for simply maintaining life functions on 0 activity). Frequently eating significantly below that without doctor's supervision is pretty disordered eating, regardless of carbs and/or nuts.
Hmmmm. There are lots of people that water fast for days and days. I have done 4 day fasts easily. I personally know someone that has done 9 days without fainting.
If you go to YouTube, there are people (mostly women) that water fast for over 20 days straight to lose weight. A normal sized person has enough fat on them to go 40 days with water only.
Unless she has other factors, I doubt lo-cal did it.
Dan the Man from Michigan
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Hmmmm. There are lots of people that water fast for days and days. I have done 4 day fasts easily. I personally know someone that has done 9 days without fainting.
If you go to YouTube, there are people (mostly women) that water fast for over 20 days straight to lose weight. A normal sized person has enough fat on them to go 40 days with water only.
Unless she has other factors, I doubt lo-cal did it.
Dan the Man from Michigan
The fact that people CAN do anything doesn't make it necessarily safe or healthy. There are people who have lost weight eating only McDonald's (google it) for a solid month, but that doesn't mean it's a wise idea.0 -
Hmmmm. There are lots of people that water fast for days and days. I have done 4 day fasts easily. I personally know someone that has done 9 days without fainting.
If you go to YouTube, there are people (mostly women) that water fast for over 20 days straight to lose weight. A normal sized person has enough fat on them to go 40 days with water only.
Unless she has other factors, I doubt lo-cal did it.
Dan the Man from Michigan
The fact that people CAN do anything doesn't make it necessarily safe or healthy. There are people who have lost weight eating only McDonald's (google it) for a solid month, but that doesn't mean it's a wise idea.
The discussion was whether lo cal will make her faint, not about safe or healthy. If NO calories won't make you faint, then why would you think less than 800 calories would make someone faint?
Dan the Man from Michigan
P.S. (Water fasting is very healthy. Google it)
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The discussion was whether lo cal will make her faint, not about safe or healthy. If NO calories won't make you faint, then why would you think less than 800 calories would make someone faint?
We don't know enough to know IF her calorie level could have led to the fainting episode, but everyone's quick to jump all over the EMS workers for what they may/may not have done wrong in the situation. No one is looking at the potential role the OP played in the scenario. SOME people can fast...and I imagine the ability to fast for any length of time or maintain below the # of calories to simply survive depends a lot upon age, gender, and overall body mass/fat makeup. What if the OP had been behind the wheel? I don't know...if I had an otherwise unexplained fainting episode I'd be in my PCP's office for assessment within 12 hours. Occam's Razor would point to calories and/or malnutrition as a major factor based upon the scarce knowledge we do have. If not that, then the OP should be concerned about other potential issues that should be addressed.0 -
The discussion was whether lo cal will make her faint, not about safe or healthy. If NO calories won't make you faint, then why would you think less than 800 calories would make someone faint?
We don't know enough to know IF her calorie level could have led to the fainting episode, but everyone's quick to jump all over the EMS workers for what they may/may not have done wrong in the situation. No one is looking at the potential role the OP played in the scenario. SOME people can fast...and I imagine the ability to fast for any length of time or maintain below the # of calories to simply survive depends a lot upon age, gender, and overall body mass/fat makeup. What if the OP had been behind the wheel? I don't know...if I had an otherwise unexplained fainting episode I'd be in my PCP's office for assessment within 12 hours. Occam's Razor would point to calories and/or malnutrition as a major factor based upon the scarce knowledge we do have. If not that, then the OP should be concerned about other potential issues that should be addressed.
If you read what she said, she has LOW BLOOD PRESSURE that makes her faint. This isnt new for her, it isnt unexplained, she has a bracelet that says low blood pressure and they read it as low blood sugar. That's why ppl are jumping on the EMS workers, cause they read it wrong, told her she fainted from low blood SUGAR even as she tried to explain it was low blood PRESSURE.
Dont give someone peanuts, or anything they dont have on them, especially if you arent able or willing to read the bracelet correctly.
Altho they made her upset by ignoring her real problem and making her eat something she didnt need to, and that anger might have increased her blood pressure. Maybe that was what they were trying to do to help her? /facepalm 0 -
The discussion was whether lo cal will make her faint, not about safe or healthy. If NO calories won't make you faint, then why would you think less than 800 calories would make someone faint?
We don't know enough to know IF her calorie level could have led to the fainting episode, but everyone's quick to jump all over the EMS workers for what they may/may not have done wrong in the situation. No one is looking at the potential role the OP played in the scenario. SOME people can fast...and I imagine the ability to fast for any length of time or maintain below the # of calories to simply survive depends a lot upon age, gender, and overall body mass/fat makeup. What if the OP had been behind the wheel? I don't know...if I had an otherwise unexplained fainting episode I'd be in my PCP's office for assessment within 12 hours. Occam's Razor would point to calories and/or malnutrition as a major factor based upon the scarce knowledge we do have. If not that, then the OP should be concerned about other potential issues that should be addressed.
I actually don't have my license due to this, and I know exactly what caused it. I have a condition where my BP can suddenly drop. The fact that I eat very little sometimes is that I'm simply not hungry or I'm nauseated. My doc so long as it's not over a 7 day streak not to worry.0 -
Too few calories can definitely exacerbate low BP -- I know this due to my own low BP episodes. If I don't eat enough I'll see stars.0
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Too few calories can definitely exacerbate low BP -- I know this due to my own low BP episodes. If I don't eat enough I'll see stars.
Next time you see stars, you should check your blood glucose levels. What you describe is classic low BG, or hyperglycemia. Especially if you get it after strenuous exercise. You shouldn't be under 60.
I hope this helps,
Dan the Man from Michigan
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Too few calories can definitely exacerbate low BP -- I know this due to my own low BP episodes. If I don't eat enough I'll see stars.
Next time you see stars, you should check your blood glucose levels. What you describe is classic low BG, or hyperglycemia. Especially if you get it after strenuous exercise. You shouldn't be under 60.
I hope this helps,
Dan the Man from Michigan
It's not exercise-related. It's a standing from a seated position thing. My BP has always been low, but particularly so when my calories are under 1500 net and I'm losing weight at an acceptable rate. 1200 is the absolute lowest I can go before I find myself grabbing chair arms and walls.
Hyperglycemia is high blood sugar. Hypo is low. I tend towards reactive hypo, which is one reason keto works so well for me.0 -
Too few calories can definitely exacerbate low BP -- I know this due to my own low BP episodes. If I don't eat enough I'll see stars.
Next time you see stars, you should check your blood glucose levels. What you describe is classic low BG, or hyperglycemia. Especially if you get it after strenuous exercise. You shouldn't be under 60.
I hope this helps,
Dan the Man from Michigan
It's not exercise-related. It's a standing from a seated position thing. My BP has always been low, but particularly so when my calories are under 1500 net and I'm losing weight at an acceptable rate. 1200 is the absolute lowest I can go before I find myself grabbing chair arms and walls.
Hyperglycemia is high blood sugar. Hypo is low. I tend towards reactive hypo, which is one reason keto works so well for me.
Dehydration can cause the symptoms you describe also. But it wouldn't hurt for you to check your BG when you see spots.
I hope this helps,
Dan the Man from Michigan
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