Retreating from the Main Boards to This Group
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I know how you feel. At first I tried just using CICO but the more I tried without getting the results I wanted, the more I realized I needed to clean up my diet. It's pretty hard to keep your calories low and your stomach full when you're eating empty junk. I also have a tendency to binge eat, so I can't even have junk food in the house, and the more I stay away from it, the better. It's like an alcoholic getting that first sip of alcohol. It's nothing but a downward spiral from there.
It seems that the ones shouting the loudest about how it's OK to have a few cookies are the big, muscular guys who also exercise and work out more than the average person. I read one guy basically say that Oreos can be considered a health food because if he needs to replenish his glycogen stores after a tough rugby game, some Oreos might be perfect. Well, the LAST thing I'm worried about is replenishing my glycogen stores. I probably have enough fat in my behind for my body to convert into glycogen and keep me alive for the next three months if necessary.
I'm not saying you can't enjoy an occasional treat. Of course you can. But some of us are here because we want to develop a healthier lifestyle, and that's kinda the whole point.0 -
Thats the truth! It depends on if you are here to really create a healthy lifestyle or just lose weight.lisawinning4losing wrote: »I know how you feel. At first I tried just using CICO but the more I tried without getting the results I wanted, the more I realized I needed to clean up my diet. It's pretty hard to keep your calories low and your stomach full when you're eating empty junk. I also have a tendency to binge eat, so I can't even have junk food in the house, and the more I stay away from it, the better. It's like an alcoholic getting that first sip of alcohol. It's nothing but a downward spiral from there.
It seems that the ones shouting the loudest about how it's OK to have a few cookies are the big, muscular guys who also exercise and work out more than the average person. I read one guy basically say that Oreos can be considered a health food because if he needs to replenish his glycogen stores after a tough rugby game, some Oreos might be perfect. Well, the LAST thing I'm worried about is replenishing my glycogen stores. I probably have enough fat in my behind for my body to convert into glycogen and keep me alive for the next three months if necessary.
I'm not saying you can't enjoy an occasional treat. Of course you can. But some of us are here because we want to develop a healthier lifestyle, and that's kinda the whole point.
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What I find frustrating: When I try to post about eating nutrient dense foods folks come on and act like I'm preaching, and say they "meet their macros and micros". Folks say I'm being condescending. But then I see two different things: some of the shirtless mafia have diaries with NO plant foods at all, and tons of frozen dinners.
And young girls post day after day asking if they really *can* eat whatever they want as long as it's under X calories.
Many folks are woefully under educated about nutrition on the main boards, and many are stubbornly obtuse.
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »What I find frustrating: When I try to post about eating nutrient dense foods folks come on and act like I'm preaching, and say they "meet their macros and micros". Folks say I'm being condescending. But then I see two different things: some of the shirtless mafia have diaries with NO plant foods at all, and tons of frozen dinners.
And young girls post day after day asking if they really *can* eat whatever they want as long as it's under X calories.
Many folks are woefully under educated about nutrition on the main boards, and many are stubbornly obtuse.
"Shirtless Mafia" I love it!
You're absolutely right though! So many people are just plain stubborn.
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Ha ha ha! The shirtless mafia! Yeah, exactly. I think they're being bullies by not allowing other people to talk rationally about things like, ya know, health and nutrition.0
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I'm a gardener. I studied horticulture in college and currently volunteer with a university Horticultural Extension service. I've studied pesticides extensively. I used to be an organic gardener. Now I am not. I won't even buy organic produce. There is no difference, and some people avoid buying fruits and vegetables because the price of organic is so high.
I certainly don't want to spur an argument here, but organic produce is proven to be no healthier than traditionally grown. Yes, proven. You must wash all produce before eating it, and it is actually a lot easier to remove any minute traces of pesticides from crops than pathogenic bacteria left over from the (inadequately) composted manures so often used as fertilizers.
Food all grows in the ground. The quality of the soil and the amount and timing of nutrients matters -- and the first thing we learned about plant fertilization in college was this: plants can't recognize the difference between organic and synthetic fertilizers. That is science, not opinion.
So buy organic if it makes you feel better, but to anyone who is reluctant to eat traditionally grown food, eat up! It is 100% fine, and just as healthy as organic.0 -
tinascar2015 wrote: »I'm a gardener. I studied horticulture in college and currently volunteer with a university Horticultural Extension service. I've studied pesticides extensively. I used to be an organic gardener. Now I am not. I won't even buy organic produce. There is no difference, and some people avoid buying fruits and vegetables because the price of organic is so high.
I certainly don't want to spur an argument here, but organic produce is proven to be no healthier than traditionally grown. Yes, proven. You must wash all produce before eating it, and it is actually a lot easier to remove any minute traces of pesticides from crops than pathogenic bacteria left over from the (inadequately) composted manures so often used as fertilizers.
Food all grows in the ground. The quality of the soil and the amount and timing of nutrients matters -- and the first thing we learned about plant fertilization in college was this: plants can't recognize the difference between organic and synthetic fertilizers. That is science, not opinion.
So buy organic if it makes you feel better, but to anyone who is reluctant to eat traditionally grown food, eat up! It is 100% fine, and just as healthy as organic.
I agree with you and also do not buy any organic food. To your reasons I would like to add that there is no clear cut law in any country that determines what " organic food " really is.
Also in most developed western countries vegetables and fruit travel a very long way ( in the US on average 1200 miles on average ). Considering that produce starts to oxidize after harvest and really does so at an alarming rate starting at about 24 hours after harvest it is almost safe to assume that once the food gets to it's destination and maybe hangs around in a store's storage for another few days, that there is not much nutrition left.
I am a strong believer in local and seasonal food and of course accept that stored produce in winter is not as nutritious as fresh harvested in summer.
I have also been a gardener since childhood and even now living in the middle of Mexico City ( as compared to the Rhine Valley in Germany where I am from ) I have a container garden that pretty much sustains me and I buy some of the things that are difficult to grow ( especially because container gardening in this climate uses a lot of water ). Luckily, as far as produce is concerned, this country is still relatively poor and farmers do not have the recourses to use chemicals on their crops, so things are kind of " organic " by default. Also the average person cannot afford strawberries flown in from Israel, or apples from Washington, or radishes from Spain, no matter how many " organic " labels they have.
We do have " organic " stores and when I pass I am always sad. Most of the items are past their time and look bedraggled and wilted ( like pencil thin rhubarb from the US, or oranges from Spain or the MIddle East, while Mexico is one of the biggest orange producers in the world ) at many times the price of average produce.
I am , even after 40 years in Humanitarian Aid as well as Rural Development as my profession, not 100% sure how I feel about insecticides and other chemicals on food and avoid them whenever I can, but still prefer locally grown and seasonal fresh stuff ( often bought within 12 hours from harvest ) over anything organic without reliable information.I do not use pesticides, but do use a modest amount of fertilizers on my vegetables & herbs.
Sorry, this is so long, but it's a subject close to my heart and unfortunately one that in other threads only brought about nastiness by people who seem to have opinions, but nothing to base them on.
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The pesticides used today are infinitely safer than those used when we were kids. You can't drink them, sure, and you need to wear eye and skin protection when you apply them, but those same warnings are on organic pest control products, too. (Oh yes, organic farmers do use pesticides! Just not the biggest guns available.) I use them all quite sparingly, and I never do a blanket application over my whole garden. I think in the last 25 years, the US government has done a decent job of banning the worst pesticides, and recognizing the ones homeowners misuse the most. Some of those are now rated only for professional use.
It's too bad farmers down there can't afford pest control solutions. Their farm yields must really suffer for it. This is a subject that is also near and dear to my heart, and I know what you mean about the topic turning so nasty at times. And by the way, Ang, bless you for 40 years in humanitarian aid.0 -
There is definitely a different mindset between those who are those who dieting versus those looking for long term, sustainable lifestyle change.
In regards to organic/ traditional farming methods, I would rather not ingest a plethora of pesticides, but understand there is no structural difference in these foods. I believe in supporting local farmers, and I choose to support those who use sustainable farming practices and limit use of pesticides. Neither of the local farms from which I purchase produce are certified organic due to the red tape and costs involved. I trust their farming practices, have visited their farms and love the fact that the food we eat is grown within 15 miles from my home. I buy organic when it makes sense to me and fits in my budget. I avoid GMOS as much as possible.
In any event, I find the folks on this forum to be friendly, informed and generally supportive. I do appreciate the respect for individuals and their opinions shown here.
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tinascar2015 wrote: »
It's too bad farmers down there can't afford pest control solutions. Their farm yields must really suffer for it. This is a subject that is also near and dear to my heart, and I know what you mean about the topic turning so nasty at times. And by the way, Ang, bless you for 40 years in humanitarian aid.
This is exactly what I have done for the first decade here in Mexico. I developed programs so farmers could get closer to sustainable yields without falling into the clutches of Monsanto, which claims here in Mexico to be a sustainable algricultural company. And since most small farmers are illiterate, they have no way of getting information, or defending themselves. Now as I am approaching 70 ( and still work full time, because I have no family of my own and enjoy my work )I no longer work in the field, but in community nutrition here in Mexico City. It's 80% a desk job, something I would not have liked until maybe ten years ago....but now, trying to accept the aging process, it's an ok job.....:o).
I have lived in developing countries for 30 of the last 40 years and have thankfully learned a lot about simple and natural nutrition, a lesson I am thankful for almost every day.
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MyLittlPwn13 wrote: »You are SO right! Heaven forbid that one suggest that food can affect one's mental health. I'm glad to find this little community to be free of torches and pitchforks.
Sold! I am joining also after finding this group just now and this was the first thread I read. I have overcome massive depression issues with my diet. I have ZERO tolerance or patience for internet warriors.
My diary is open and I practice a pretty clean diet. I use protein supplements and bcaa's/creatine for lifting repair and fuel. I have traveled the clean eating road twice before and always get railroaded at home for being so strict but this year I vowed to myself to stay the course. Nobody will make a difference in my decisions this year. I feel too dang good to stop.0 -
I'm so glad I found this thread! I feel exactly the same way.
I recently opened this account, but I had an account last year. It seems like people are getting snarkier and seem to gang up on whomever posts an unpopular view -- such as "fast food and donuts are not healthy"
I *have* found a lot of useful information on the boards. But I have also seen a lot of negativity and mob mentality.
I mean, it is OK to disagree on topics, but it is not OK to gang up on posters and ridicule them with GIFs and spam threads with "Mean Girls" attitudes.
Also, don't get me wrong, I love bacon.
And I will indulge occasionally. As a matter of fact tomorrow I plant to make the Skinnytaste Asparagus Salad with Crumbled Bacon...but I digress.
I would like a place to learn about whole foods and nutrition. I enjoy how I feel when I eat better. So, to me, it is more than just creating a caloric deficit without mind to the quality of my food.
Thank you for opening this subject.
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The problem is people seem to have forgotten what "truly delicious" means...[/quote]
I think that the problem is that all the artificial flavors and flavor enhancers paired with the fact that most produce now ripens in distribution centers vs. the fields makes for a perfect storm that ends up numbing the taste buds.
Seriously.
It is almost like people can't enjoy the taste of ripe strawberries anymore, because we are expecting the taste of hyper-sweet, synthetic strawberry flavor that we have been conditioned to believe is the way berries are supposed to taste like.
Similar to the way one gets used to eating spicy food and suddenly can tolerate super spicy stuff without batting an eye -- because we have an elevated thresh hold for spicy.
But if you stop eating spicy food for a while, that thresh hold is once again lowered.
The same thing happens with me and "real" flavors. I feel like I have to go through some type of artificial flavor detox and then I can taste and appreciate real food again.
Hope that makes sense
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Funnily enough where I used to live, seasonal produce was the norm. I'd anxiously await the start of strawberry season, or peach season or whatever season, and boy were they amazing!
I actually eat less fruit now that I'm back in the UK because it's just this mass produced/forced/picked when green mess of horribleness with no *real* flavour.0 -
tinascar2015 wrote: »
It's too bad farmers down there can't afford pest control solutions. Their farm yields must really suffer for it. This is a subject that is also near and dear to my heart, and I know what you mean about the topic turning so nasty at times. And by the way, Ang, bless you for 40 years in humanitarian aid.
This is exactly what I have done for the first decade here in Mexico. I developed programs so farmers could get closer to sustainable yields without falling into the clutches of Monsanto, which claims here in Mexico to be a sustainable algricultural company. And since most small farmers are illiterate, they have no way of getting information, or defending themselves. Now as I am approaching 70 ( and still work full time, because I have no family of my own and enjoy my work )I no longer work in the field, but in community nutrition here in Mexico City. It's 80% a desk job, something I would not have liked until maybe ten years ago....but now, trying to accept the aging process, it's an ok job.....:o).
I have lived in developing countries for 30 of the last 40 years and have thankfully learned a lot about simple and natural nutrition, a lesson I am thankful for almost every day.
Your life is fascinating. Thank you for sharing.
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Yes!! Real food is absolutely delicious! This is why I cringe when I look at the Recipes forum. The way people dress up their vegetables is insulting to good food! Why must you always cover your veggies in a little oil and spice blends and roast them? Brussels sprouts are fabulous just steamed, as are green beans, carrots, broccoli, asparagus and just about all everything else. This is how my mom cooked. This is how the English eat their cooked vegetables, and they have a good variety of them, too.
On my first trip to the UK, I was thrilled to see waiters coming around after our entrees were served, holding big platters of perfectly (not overly) cooked fresh vegetables. What a nice change from American restaurants that covered things in sauces or just plunked a few pieces of overcooked broccoli and zucchini on your plate.
I like to steam a good quantity of a variety of vegetables every few days and snack on them, cold. I could eat cold Brussels sprouts until I burst.0 -
I'm totally with you. I hate the notion that as long as you stay within your calorie goal, you'll lose weight. That's just not true. It's all about WHAT you put into your body, too! I wish more people understood that. Happy to have you here!0
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Notreadytoquit wrote: »Seems like you found your way to the right group. We're pretty reasonable as a group. I keep an open diary and welcome friends who like to eat, cook and live closer to the land.
ewg.org. http://www.ewg.org/foodscores/products. Environmental Working Group
is a good website for evaluating the quality of processed foods organic or otherwise. Just downloaded report on pesticides in produce. You can find that on the home page.
Welcome to MFP and good job on the weight loss.
You got me off the fake sugar stuff...Thank you ever so much for that! I now sleep better.
My dessert tonight is not Healthy Choice Fudge bars (does not show up on the website) but Julie's Organic Strawberry yogurt bar gets a five...I seem to have to have a dessert...this looks like a good choice.
I now sweeten my Fage % with St. Dalfour's jam. No more with jams by Nature's Hollow. Then I add chopped almonds for a good crunch.
I like my sweets...I am finding some acceptable alternatives.
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Well, I tripped up a bit and put a piece of carrot cake into me yesterday, the first sugary dessert I've had in over two months. It was my own made-from-scratch cake with cream cheese frosting and as usual, it was heavenly. My husband's birthday cake.
The good news is, I stopped at one piece.
By the way, in this morning's news, more organic produce is being recalled for pathogenic bacteria contamination. Please do not equate organic with healthy, folks.
abc15.com/news/national/recall-of-frozen-organic-spinach-for-listeria-expanded?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitterhttp://0 -
tinascar2015 wrote: »"A place where food isn't just calories"...love it!
Glad to hear others discussing the dichotomy between healthy calories and just calories. For the past few months I have become more aware of what I am putting in my body, how my body reacts to those nutrients (or pseudo-nutrients/ no I don't know if that's an official term). Fruits, veggies, and lean protein sources make me feel like I have more pep in my step and easier to roll out of bed in the morning. Understandably every-body is different; but there are some very real commonalities between all humans.
I'm looking to stay connected with more people like yourselves! Feel free to add me on MFP!
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Loving this forum of like-minded people! Health is real wealth! I share healthy recipes and tips on my food blog as my way of journaling healthy foods I love and what I learn about nutrition. http://www.theharvestkitchen.com/0
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I'm so glad that I ventured away from the boards and found this group! I spent 10 years following WW principles, where basically lots of low fat, artificially sweetened foods are encouraged. I've been eating clean now for nearly 3 years, low fat nothing, no refined sugar or artificial sweeteners, and a wide variety of fruits, vegetables, nuts, coconut products, meat WITH the fat, etc. Over the last 18 months I've been working really hard on repairing my metabolic damage from eating such low nutrient, low cal food for so long, and am now trying to eat between 1 800 - 2 000 cals a day. I get a lot more negative comments now about my diet than I did when I was practically starving myself, both in terms of calories and nutrition! I'm glad to have found some like minded people :-)0
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I still flit around the main forums (I just roll my eyes at the "shirtless mafia" and move one, but one thing that I can't stand is how so many of them "advise" that unless you have a diagnosed medical condition, you don't have to worry about eating too much salt or sugar. I'd like to see if they are preaching that same nonsense when they are dealing with the ramifications as they age. So many of them are young and can't yet comprehend that they are not immortal and the choices they make now will affect them positively or negatively as they grow older.0
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Couldn't agree more. I feel frightened by some of the main board conversations and recommendations. So glad to have some other clean, whole food eaters for solidarity!0
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I have friends that are dieting too, but they are doing either Jenny Craig or Nutrisystem, and one who had gastro surgery and gained the weight back is doing Weight Watchers. Their reason for not even trying to clean eat is that they don't have time to cook when they get home from work. None of them have children or a husband, it's just them. It takes to long they said. For the fun of it, I had one over for dinner the other night. Had her bring her processed meal, and I cooked mine. My cooked meal only took 4 minutes longer to make than hers. Sautéed chicken pieces with some veggies in olive oil and a bit of seasoning in a wok. Bam, done in no time. So what is the excuse now I asked her. No answer!!! This same woman suffers headaches all the time, sinus infections, stomach issues. I have been trying to get her to just try this for even two weeks. I'm so positive that she would feel so much better. I know I do. People are just ingrained to eat the processed foods, or the high calories for taste or whatever. It's hard to convince others that there really is a healthy way of eating. I've given up and just enjoy my cooking and my feeling good.
I completely avoid the forums now as I've gotten my head chopped off a few times. This is where I'll hang out instead.0 -
I knew this group had to exist. Thank you thank you thank you. I believe if you put good in you will get good out. I feel that the big boards don't care so much for nutrition and only look at CICO. I've been reading some crazy things and knew there had to be like minded people somewhere. I was afraid to make a comment for fear of being attacked for suggesting eating cleaner foods. Thank you for providing a safe place to discuss cleaner eating!0
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I think this might be one of my favorite threads ever. So many of the threads on the main forums make me sad... it's hard to believe that people actually believe that stuff! UGH! They have no idea what food really tastes like. When you eat real food, and take the time to taste it, a banana or melon is as sweet as candy. I ate dinner at a friends house yesterday and wasn't able to pick apart the food (discretely of course) so I had a small helping and then had the fruit salad I brought. It tasted like chemicals and salt. That is NOT what I wanted to use my calorie allowance on. And to top it off, I woke up with a killer migraine today.
It is so nice to be with like minded people who respect each other's views. Whether we avoid meat (I eat very little), gluten, GMO's (raises hand), or go organic whenever possible (raises other hand), or another dietary choice, we support each other!0 -
I totally agree with y'all! I can't believe so many ppl on the main boards don't pay attention to nutrition! Glad there are some nutrition conscious folks around here!0
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I had heard of clean eating before, but did not really understand it. A friend invited me to try it for a week and included the menu, recipes and grocery list. It is wonderful. I want to continue. I do find it a bit challenging though to be fully prepared and have the right food on hand.0
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So nice to find a place where I feel at home, I'm not a 100% clean eater, but we grow most of our own vegetables and I'm glad my kids will eat any vegetables they are given as a result. My son said that at university, his carrots don't cook leaving the water orange and I pointed out those were shop bought and probably quick frozen at picking to enable them to travel miles to the store, of course they weren't 'really fresh'.
I like the comments about organic food too, having worked in one of the UK's leading food analytical labs I know that lots of food entering the Uk from non-EU places don't necessarily conform to our standards of inspection which just makes buying organic into a lottery. We grow using no pesticides and only manure based fertiliser but that's because of my cats who I wasn't keen on poisoning.
And the comments about Oreo's? my daughter loves the Oreo ice cream bars and all I can say is...errrrr... no thanks...If I'm going to eat chocolate then honestly I'd rather it was some rum based concoction being served by some half naked hunk fetchingly described as 'eye candy'. if it's not then I'm not interested!
Look forward to learning some lush recipes,0
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