Official diabetes diet misinformation - any candidates for the Darwin Awards?
RalfLott
Posts: 5,036 Member
In trawling for good summaries to share, the first site I came across looks like a worthy candidate for the booby prize. But there must be others.....
Of all the publications one might not expect to rival Mad Magazine or The Onion, the National Diabetes Education Program has some pretty funny writers.
From 4 Steps to Manage Your Diabetes For Life:
[All the metformin (and imodium) in the house wouldn't keep my BG down if this were my diet....]
If this is the advice for those of us who've already been diagnosed, one might wonder what the suggestions are for prediabetics and others at risk for T2D.
From Make Healthy Food Choices (to lower risk and delay onset of diabetes):
Of all the publications one might not expect to rival Mad Magazine or The Onion, the National Diabetes Education Program has some pretty funny writers.
From 4 Steps to Manage Your Diabetes For Life:
Eat well.
- Eat foods with more fiber, such as whole grain cereals, breads, crackers, rice, or pasta.
- Choose foods such as fruits, vegetables, whole grains, bread and cereals, and low-fat or skim milk and cheese.
- A plate of food with proportions listed
- When eating a meal, fill half of your plate with fruits and vegetables, one quarter with a lean protein, such as beans, or chicken or turkey without the skin, and one quarter with a whole grain, such as brown rice or whole wheat pasta.
[All the metformin (and imodium) in the house wouldn't keep my BG down if this were my diet....]
If this is the advice for those of us who've already been diagnosed, one might wonder what the suggestions are for prediabetics and others at risk for T2D.
From Make Healthy Food Choices (to lower risk and delay onset of diabetes):
When it comes to eating healthy to lose weight, the three most important steps are:...
- Take in fewer calories than you burn during the day.
- Eat less fat (especially saturated fats and trans fats) than you currently eat.
Saturated fat is found mostly in foods that come from animals like fatty cuts of beef, lamb, pork, poultry with skin, whole and 2% milk, butter, cheese, and lard. It can also be found in palm and coconut oil.- Eat smaller portions of high fat and high calorie foods than you currently eat. Portion sizes are often smaller than we think.
Healthy eating tips...
- Choose foods that are not fried. Instead of fried chicken, try it grilled or baked. Instead of greasy french fries or potato chips, slice potatoes, mix them with a little bit of oil, herbs, and pepper, and bake them in the oven.
- Lighten your recipes by using reduced-fat (light) or fat-free versions of items such as sour cream, cream cheese, mayonnaise, cheese and salad dressing.
- For dessert, eat a piece of fruit. Also, try fat-free or low-fat frozen yogurt or sherbet instead of ice cream. Instead of cakes or brownies, have one scoop of vanilla fat-free frozen yogurt with a tablespoon of fat-free chocolate sauce on top.
Focus on fruits. Eat a variety of fruits—whether fresh, frozen, canned, or dried—rather than fruit juice for most of your fruit choices. For a 2,000-calorie diet, you will need 2 cups of fruit each day (for example, 1 small banana, 1 large orange, and 1/4 cup of dried apricots or peaches)
Make half your grains whole. Eat at least 3 ounces of whole-grain cereals, breads, crackers, rice, or pasta every day. One ounce is about 1 slice of bread, 1 cup of breakfast cereal, or 1/2 cup of cooked rice or pasta. Look to see that grains such as wheat, rice, oats, or corn are referred to as “whole” in the list of ingredients.
Recommended Calories and Fat Grams Daily
- 120 –170 pounds-
1,200 calories a day
33 grams fat a day- 175 – 215 pounds-
1,500 calories a day
42 grams fat a day- 220 – 245 pounds-
1,800 calories a day
50 grams fat a day- 250 – 300 pounds-
2000 calories a day
55 grams fat a day
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Replies
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This is exactly why I'm so glad I found this board and this WOE. When the doctor ever sent me to a nutritionist who gave myself and my husband a pamphlet (the same one they've been handing out for at least 10 years now) that said most of what's in that article, that was it for me. When I told her that this is how I've been eating for 10 years now, with no improvement, she said I must be cheating. I haven't looked back.11
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Yes, that's standard advice. They don't seem to notice that it does NOT work.
My grandmother died of diabetic complications, that's what she ate all her life. Bland, tasteless, boring, depressing food, until she was nothing but skin and bones and had to make an effort to eat. She never cheated, not even at Christmas or birthdays. No matter what everyone else was eating, she had her own food. Still died after having first a foot, then a leg, amputated. When I got the same advice I said no, thank you.
I am SO MAD at the lies being spread around by doctors and diabetes "educators" that should know better, and so sad for all the people trying their best and still getting worse every day.
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KetoGirl83 wrote: »Yes, that's standard advice. They don't seem to notice that it does NOT work.
My grandmother died of diabetic complications, that's what she ate all her life. Bland, tasteless, boring, depressing food, until she was nothing but skin and bones and had to make an effort to eat. She never cheated, not even at Christmas or birthdays. No matter what everyone else was eating, she had her own food. Still died after having first a foot, then a leg, amputated. When I got the same advice I said no, thank you.
I am SO MAD at the lies being spread around by doctors and diabetes "educators" that should know better, and so sad for all the people trying their best and still getting worse every day.
It is just infuriating.
I am only one person, but at this point in my life, I am pretty sure I'm not very unique in any respect. If LCHF produced a significant, near-immediate improvement in my BG and lipid profile, there must be millions in the same boat.
Yet sources most of us would have in our first circle of trusted references tell us to load up with carbs. This includes not only the NIH, but Mayo Clinic and Consumer Reports.* Eegads!
*The ADA was never in that tier to start with, but it's got the same stripes.3 -
I hear you. Diabetic Magazine has recipes with up to 65 carbs per portion in it. That is pretty close to what many eat in the SAD.2
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KetoGirl83 wrote: »Yes, that's standard advice. They don't seem to notice that it does NOT work.
My grandmother died of diabetic complications, that's what she ate all her life. Bland, tasteless, boring, depressing food, until she was nothing but skin and bones and had to make an effort to eat. She never cheated, not even at Christmas or birthdays. No matter what everyone else was eating, she had her own food. Still died after having first a foot, then a leg, amputated. When I got the same advice I said no, thank you.
I am SO MAD at the lies being spread around by doctors and diabetes "educators" that should know better, and so sad for all the people trying their best and still getting worse every day.
Oh that's awful! How infuriating! I am so sorry to hear this.
My husband was told when he was diagnosed with T2 to switch to low fat foods and to strive for about 60 gm of carbs per meal and 10-20 gm for snacks 2-3 times a day. It's really really scary, and these instructions come with very real consequences.2 -
I recently read an article that cited the ADA as a source; it recommended people with T2 diabetes eat 45-60 grams of carbs PER MEAL!!2
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I recently read an article that cited the ADA as a source; it recommended people with T2 diabetes eat 45-60 grams of carbs PER MEAL!!
Whew!
And what.... eat lightly and have, uh, 8 or 10 meals per day. Let's see, that's hmmm.. up to 600 carb grams/day?
Ok, so it's only 3 meals and 135-180 per day. That's still nuts (and rice and pasta and cereal and.... BG spikes).
On Sisson's Carb Curve, posted in LCHF a few days ago, 135-180 hovers between
"Effortless weight maintenance" (not the goal, duh) and "Insidious Weight Gain" (really not the goal!).
It is not even within hailing distance of the "Weight Loss Sweet Spot !"
Damn!
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WOW! I would say its very close to the Onion! Funny and sad at the same time. These SAD diets are written by people that are not fat, never had to loose weight from being morbidly obese, never have had metabolic syndrome or being diabetic. They must be the normal skinny-people-doctors-that-blame-the-fat-people-as-not-having-self-control crowd.
I found the LCHF Keto diet in a round about way, but this TED Med talk started the ball rolling with me to finding the Keto diet. I encourage everyone to watch it. I literally cried when I watched it. I suffered so many years because of diets (like in your original post) and this video hit home with me in so many ways:
What If We're Wrong about Diabetes? Peter Attia
My story has a happy ending, I have lost over 100 lbs and now am not taking any diabetic meds:
How I got Off of Diabetic Prescriptions Drugs Since I Started Keto Updated
and
Blog #13 DittoDan's Milestone's, First's And Good Changes Since Starting the Ketogenic Diet Updated
Dan the Man from Michigan
Keto / The Recipe Water Fasting / E.A.S.Y. Exercise Program
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Thanks for the tips!
There are some pretty good TED Talks on diabetes and diet, including Reversing Type 2 diabetes starts with ignoring the guidelines by Sarah Hallberg (which popped up first in the on-deck circle when I loaded Peter Attia's video).1 -
@DittoDan , the more I read about obesity research over the last 150 years, the more I want to punch some of these 'scientists' and 'doctors' in the face. It's like it's easier to blame the obese for their condition, and write it off as a character defect, rather then treat the problem. We had the keto/Adkins type diets since the 1800s, and they WORKED, in clinical studies, every time, but always got laughed out of town.2
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http://www.everydayhealth.com/news/carb-counting-101/?pos=1&xid=nl_EverydayHealthManagingDiabetes_20160216
This is the link to the article I referred to above. The title of the article is "How to Count Carbs for Better Blood Sugar Control." It then goes on to state that carbs should make up 40-60 percent of your diet; and recommends 45-60 grams per meal.
For someone like me, who is prediabetic, this is terrible advice.0 -
I recently read an article that cited the ADA as a source; it recommended people with T2 diabetes eat 45-60 grams of carbs PER MEAL!!
Whew!
And what.... eat lightly and have, uh, 8 or 10 meals per day. Let's see, that's hmmm.. up to 600 carb grams/day?
Ok, so it's only 3 meals and 135-180 per day. That's still nuts (and rice and pasta and cereal and.... BG spikes).
On Sisson's Carb Curve, posted in LCHF a few days ago, 135-180 hovers between
"Effortless weight maintenance" (not the goal, duh) and "Insidious Weight Gain" (really not the goal!).
It is not even within hailing distance of the "Weight Loss Sweet Spot !"
Damn!
Have you ever pictured the grain/starch recommendation in actual food? I did that once. Turns out that the general USDA recommendation of 6-11 servings is roughly a loaf of bread.0 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »
Have you ever pictured the grain/starch recommendation in actual food? I did that once. Turns out that the general USDA recommendation of 6-11 servings is roughly a loaf of bread.
when i was in elementary school in the 1970's (yes, i'm THAT old) the RDA was
3-2-4-4
i can still remember singing the little song
"have a 3-2-4-4 day!"
3 dairy
2 meat
4 grain
4 vegetable/fruits
MY HOW THINGS HAVE CHANGED!
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NOW THE RECOMMENDED IS
3 dairy
3 meat
11 grains
9 fruit/vegetables0 -
Dragonwolf wrote: »I recently read an article that cited the ADA as a source; it recommended people with T2 diabetes eat 45-60 grams of carbs PER MEAL!!
Whew!
And what.... eat lightly and have, uh, 8 or 10 meals per day. Let's see, that's hmmm.. up to 600 carb grams/day?
Ok, so it's only 3 meals and 135-180 per day. That's still nuts (and rice and pasta and cereal and.... BG spikes).
On Sisson's Carb Curve, posted in LCHF a few days ago, 135-180 hovers between
"Effortless weight maintenance" (not the goal, duh) and "Insidious Weight Gain" (really not the goal!).
It is not even within hailing distance of the "Weight Loss Sweet Spot !"
Damn!
Have you ever pictured the grain/starch recommendation in actual food? I did that once. Turns out that the general USDA recommendation of 6-11 servings is roughly a loaf of bread.
No, I hadn't.
A whole loaf of Wonder* Bread, eh?
* Aka, "Wonder-why-my-damn-BG-is-over-200 Bread."5 -
MyPrimalLife wrote: »when i was in elementary school in the 1970's (yes, i'm THAT old)...
A babe in arms!
When I was in elementary school in the 1960's, there was a lot of tasty, high-carb library paste to snack on, at least at the beginning of the year, but the jingles we learned were mostly bible songs. I'm envious!
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The excuse I hear the most as to why medical professionals don't recommend LCHF is because it's not sustainable. That's the craziest thing I've ever heard. This is the most sustainable woe I have ever tried! Eating rice, cake, bread and French fries is going to sustain me right into a grave. LCLF - now that's unsustainable, I think too many diabetics who know carbs are bad end up down that path for too long, I know I did. The fat is what makes this so sustainable.3
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PaleoInScotland wrote: »The excuse I hear the most as to why medical professionals don't recommend LCHF is because it's not sustainable. That's the craziest thing I've ever heard. This is the most sustainable woe I have ever tried! Eating rice, cake, bread and French fries is going to sustain me right into a grave. LCLF - now that's unsustainable, I think too many diabetics who know carbs are bad end up down that path for too long, I know I did. The fat is what makes this so sustainable.
So true!!!! I have tried it all. My husband and I have been at this for a year, I can't say I've even considered sticking with anything else for half that long.2 -
The Mayo Clinic's entry for the Darwin Award in the "Deadly Diabetes Diet" category.
Both 70+ carb-gram breakfast menus look like products of unnatural selection to me.....
This gem emanates from a dietitian and specialty editor for the nutrition and healthy eating guide at Mayo. (Note that protein doesn't even get a footnote....)
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Geez. It is is funny when you know better, but it is pretty sad considering that most never will.
I am prediabetic and was told to eat more lean meat, fruits and veggies...1 -
This is why I got so fat!!!2
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The Mayo Clinic's entry for the Darwin Award in the "Deadly Diabetes Diet" category.
Both 70+ carb-gram breakfast menus look like products of unnatural selection to me.....
This gem emanates from a dietitian and specialty editor for the nutrition and healthy eating guide at Mayo. (Note that protein doesn't even get a footnote....)
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Ugh! Orange juice for a diabetic??? That should be illegal. And Tim Noakes is on trial? Whoever wrote that should be sued.3 -
PaleoInScotland wrote: »The excuse I hear the most as to why medical professionals don't recommend LCHF is because it's not sustainable. That's the craziest thing I've ever heard. This is the most sustainable woe I have ever tried! Eating rice, cake, bread and French fries is going to sustain me right into a grave. LCLF - now that's unsustainable, I think too many diabetics who know carbs are bad end up down that path for too long, I know I did. The fat is what makes this so sustainable.
AMEN!!!0 -
"PaleoInScotland wrote: »
Ugh! Orange juice for a diabetic??? That should be illegal. And Tim Noakes is on trial? Whoever wrote that should be sued.
The ADA, AMA, Sugar Association, Kellogg's, Pfizer, etc., would likely all file briefs as "amici" in sheep's clothing...
Maybe deported or sent by NASA to help the Martians?1 -
When I was a teen my mother was hospitalized and diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. We all went on a diabetic diet. We were told to have cereal, fruit, toast, margarine, and skim milk and fruit juice for breakfast! This was in the eighties for reference! We all lost weight, but we were so hungry!! It wasn't sustainable at all! All weight was regained and the struggle continued!2
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While I'm not diabetic, I do have some very definite opinions on the topic of medical professionals and nutrition. (To summarize: They are clueless.) In the 15 years I've been dealing with Crohns Disease, not ONE SINGLE person has ever even mentioned the connection between what we put in our mouths and what happens in our digestive tracks, apparently unrelated topics. For all any of them know, I may have been sustaining life all these years on Little Debbie Dingdongs and Skittles, washed down with margaritas.1
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The Mayo Clinic's entry for the Darwin Award in the "Deadly Diabetes Diet" category.
Both 70+ carb-gram breakfast menus look like products of unnatural selection to me.....
This gem emanates from a dietitian and specialty editor for the nutrition and healthy eating guide at Mayo. (Note that protein doesn't even get a footnote....)
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Ugh! Talk about a rigged comparison!
Higher in nutrients?! The white and wheat toast don't offer much to either of them, so drop them off both. The nutrients in bread are nearly all fortified, so they're not particularly bioavailable, and the phytates and whatnot in the wheat inhibit absorption of what's left.
The cornflakes suffer the same issue as the bread, and by replacing eggs with them, you're losing choline, folate, B vitamins, selenium, biotin, iodine, and many other essential nutrients.
Potatoes and bananas are somewhat on par with one another in that their biggest claim to fame is potassium. I'd argue that the potatoes have the edge, because it's primarily starches, where a ripe banana is mostly glucose.
Butter vs peanut butter are somewhat on par. However, you lose the vitamins A, D, and K2 for a little extra E. Peanut butter has additional magnesium and phosphorous, but has the same amount of phytosterol (plant cholesterol) as butter has cholesterol, so the idea that there's less cholesterol isn't entirely true. Plus, butter has things like CLA and butyrate, which peanut butter doesn't have. And peanuts are a legume, so again, you have to deal with the phytates inhibiting absorption of those nutrients, decreasing their bioavailability.
And if you drop the bread and hash browns from the first menu, you drop more than half the carbs, and half the calories, bringing the calorie count in line with the option 2, and doing it how you're supposed to -- trading the carbs for fats.2 -
[quote="Dragonwolf;35674246" Ugh! Talk about a rigged comparison!
Higher in nutrients?! The white and wheat toast don't offer much to either of them, so drop them off both. The nutrients in bread are nearly all fortified, so they're not particularly bioavailable, and the phytates and whatnot in the wheat inhibit absorption of what's left.
The cornflakes suffer the same issue as the bread, and by replacing eggs with them, you're losing choline, folate, B vitamins, selenium, biotin, iodine, and many other essential nutrients.
Potatoes and bananas are somewhat on par with one another in that their biggest claim to fame is potassium. I'd argue that the potatoes have the edge, because it's primarily starches, where a ripe banana is mostly glucose.
Butter vs peanut butter are somewhat on par. However, you lose the vitamins A, D, and K2 for a little extra E. Peanut butter has additional magnesium and phosphorous, but has the same amount of phytosterol (plant cholesterol) as butter has cholesterol, so the idea that there's less cholesterol isn't entirely true. Plus, butter has things like CLA and butyrate, which peanut butter doesn't have. And peanuts are a legume, so again, you have to deal with the phytates inhibiting absorption of those nutrients, decreasing their bioavailability.
And if you drop the bread and hash browns from the first menu, you drop more than half the carbs, and half the calories, bringing the calorie count in line with the option 2, and doing it how you're supposed to -- trading the carbs for fats.[/quote]
Well said!0 -
mandycat223 wrote: »While I'm not diabetic, I do have some very definite opinions on the topic of medical professionals and nutrition. (To summarize: They are clueless.) In the 15 years I've been dealing with Crohns Disease, not ONE SINGLE person has ever even mentioned the connection between what we put in our mouths and what happens in our digestive tracks, apparently unrelated topics.
For all any of them know, I may have been sustaining life all these years on Little Debbie's, Dingdongs, and Skittles, washed down with margaritas.
If getting good nutrition advice is a battle for the diet-conscious folks here (and it is), imagine the challenges for immigrants, seniors, and people who are too unwell to pursue the topic!
Not cool.
PS Don't forget Ho-ho's, Twinkies, and Sunny "Delight"...
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