Source of carbs in ketosis

Expatmommy79
Expatmommy79 Posts: 940 Member
There was a debate happening on another board and I thought it would be best to ask here:

If a cup of popcorn has 6 carbs vs a protein shake with 6 carbs, does it make a difference to ketosis if you have one over the other?

Does the source of carbs matter?

Assume everything else the same and macros are being met.
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Replies

  • tishball
    tishball Posts: 155 Member
    Well I thought a carb is a carb so it shouldn't matter where it comes from, does it? interested to see what the better informed folks will tell us. hope it doesn't matter, sometimes I like to have a bowl of popcorn swimming in butter, it's an advantage of this diet that the beloved melted butter is good.
  • Phrick
    Phrick Posts: 2,765 Member
    edited April 2016
    I would think that the popcorn would be worse because it would invoke a greater insulin response (this is pure speculation... I mean I know that insulin even more than carbs is the determiner in obesity but on the issue of if one is better/worse, it's speculation)
  • tishball
    tishball Posts: 155 Member
    but there is no sugar in popcorn so how would it invoke an insulin response, mind you I am probably wrong as hell.....lol. That is taking that you make it yourself pop it in an airpopper or in a pan with butter,
  • Expatmommy79
    Expatmommy79 Posts: 940 Member
    tishball wrote: »
    but there is no sugar in popcorn so how would it invoke an insulin response, mind you I am probably wrong as hell.....lol. That is taking that you make it yourself pop it in an airpopper or in a pan with butter,

    Popcorn has carbs. Just like potatoes or beans... Even eggs have carbs... 0.7g/egg.

    Carbs don't necerssarily always taste like sugar.
  • tishball
    tishball Posts: 155 Member
    edited April 2016
    I know popcorn has carbs, but the question was 6 carbs from protein shake vs from popcorn,. I was thinking a carb is a carb, and unless it has added sugar it shouldn't be any worse than any other carb at invoking insulin spikes, unless you go over your carb intake, should it? wouldn't popcorn have more fibre than the shake?
  • Expatmommy79
    Expatmommy79 Posts: 940 Member
    tishball wrote: »
    I know popcorn has carbs, but the question was 6 carbs from protein shake vs from popcorn,. I was thinking a carb is a carb, and unless it has added sugar it shouldn't be any worse than any other carb at invoking insulin spikes, unless you go over your carb intake, should it? wouldn't popcorn have more fibre? than the shake?

    But it's not just "added sugar" that invokes an insulin response. All carbs invoke some response. Even protein does to a certain degree.... So "popcorn not having sugar" doesn't make a difference.

    Your statement "but there is no sugar in popcorn" is what I was clarifying.



  • suesuarez
    suesuarez Posts: 69 Member
    Here's an article which argues that the source of the carb doesn't matter if you are healthy, but does if you are not.

    http://www.simplyshredded.com/the-science-of-nutrition-is-a-carb-a-carb.html
  • Phrick
    Phrick Posts: 2,765 Member
    We argue all the time (well, I stopped haha) with the CICO crowd that while a calorie is a calorie in their narrow "it's a unit of measure" stance, the source of calories matter (the "a calorie is NOT a calorie" argument)... I can't imagine that the same does not apply to carbs. Sure a carb is a carb as far as it's a macro with about 4 calories per gram - but the source of said carb has to matter.
  • Sunny_Bunny_
    Sunny_Bunny_ Posts: 7,140 Member
    I definitely believe the source matters. I think even non caloric carbs, such as sugar alcohols matter...
  • Expatmommy79
    Expatmommy79 Posts: 940 Member
    So would those 6g of popcorn carbs kick someone out of ketosis if the overall level of carbs was still less than 20 for the day?
  • LowCarbInScotland
    LowCarbInScotland Posts: 1,027 Member
    As a diabetic, it definitely matters to my body where the carbs came from, AND what else I ate with them.
  • Expatmommy79
    Expatmommy79 Posts: 940 Member
    So... Back to the original question.

    What is better?

    Popcorn carbs
    Protein shake carbs
    Quest bar
  • Expatmommy79
    Expatmommy79 Posts: 940 Member
    I just added the quest bar - because curious
  • tishball
    tishball Posts: 155 Member
    ah pants, ye have me retinking it all now, lol. I was happy just trying to keep all my carbs under 15g, and if I had a handful of popcorn was still under I was happy. I get almost all my carbs from veg.
  • Expatmommy79
    Expatmommy79 Posts: 940 Member
    tishball wrote: »
    ah pants, ye have me retinking it all now, lol. I was happy just trying to keep all my carbs under 15g, and if I had a handful of popcorn was still under I was happy. I get almost all my carbs from veg.

    I'm with you... I'm not sure for ketosis it matters where they come from.

    Hoping someone with a blood keto Meter will weigh in and enlighten me :)

    I'm not even keto! Just curious...
  • Sabine_Stroehm
    Sabine_Stroehm Posts: 19,263 Member
    I just added the quest bar - because curious

    I'll chime in: NOT a quest bar.
    Without knowing more about the protein shake, can we possibly know?
  • Expatmommy79
    Expatmommy79 Posts: 940 Member
    No totally hypothetical.

    All macros are the same at the end of the day.

    6g popcorn carbs
    Or
    6g of any other carb - berries, milk product, veg (netted for fiber), coconut powder or nuts

    If it fits in the keto formula...

    Will the popcorn halt ketosis?
  • Expatmommy79
    Expatmommy79 Posts: 940 Member
    As a diabetic, it definitely matters to my body where the carbs came from, AND what else I ate with them.

    Diabetes factored out:

    Purely staying in or out of ketosis.

    Will it matter?
  • Foamroller
    Foamroller Posts: 1,041 Member
    It matters type of carb. The body doesn't care about nutrition labels on a package that may or may not be accurate for your food item. The body only cares about how that food item is interpreted in the liver according to that individual's biochem. @wabmester explained it more succinctly than me.

    Popcorn is a lot of fructose. Fructose is like a non alcoholic carb, I think. Which is solely handled in the liver. I don't know if fructose pauses ketones production in liver like alcohol does. Someone more learned than me is welcome to chime in on this.

    Anyway. Muscles can't use fructose as energy. So when people say they need to have fruit for preworkout...well...the fructose doesn't fuel muscle glycogen.

    My advice is to choose carefully source of carbs according to your goals. It's easy to "rationalize" carb intake.
  • KnitOrMiss
    KnitOrMiss Posts: 10,103 Member
    edited April 2016
    My body will react to 6 grams of grain carbs in a far more negative reaction than 5 times that many carbs of non-starchy veggies, like broccoli.

    So much like ALL THINGS LOW CARB, there is NO one answer that fits everyone.

    I can have more carbs from berries (maybe double) versus say from grains or starchy veggies. And I can have more broccoli than berries before the same response, etc. I have a very negative response to beans and corn, but for some reason I can handle a small portion of potatoes. But everyone is different. Everyone's reactions are different.

    What kicks me out of nutritional ketosis may not kick you out. So for me, personally, the source of the carbs matters very much!

    As long as the protein carbs are from something like hemp powder/fiber or fruit/fiber, I'd be better of with the shake than the popcorn, but someone else might have a body that reacts badly to fiber - and that person might be better off with the popcorn!

    For me, getting to know my body and it's own reactions is crucial to making low carbing work for me.
  • auntstephie321
    auntstephie321 Posts: 3,586 Member
    @wabmester that's because bananas are disgusting
  • Twibbly
    Twibbly Posts: 1,065 Member
    edited April 2016
    Here's a conundrum for you. I've been a bit...lax on my low carbing lately (ok, TOTALLY not doing it).

    After I ate rice & chili, for a total of about 65g carbs, my blood sugar was 124 and 137 an hour later. After eating spaghetti & pao, for a total of about 149g carbs, my blood sugar was 90 and 115. No exercise involved either time. Even if my portions/carb numbers were off by half, it's still a HUGE difference. I verified the 90 on another meter (it said 84!) because my brain immediately said that the number had to be wrong. I'm pretty certain that the source of the carbs matters, but different people may react differently.

    And yes, I'm saying to heck with tracking junk meals and going back to low carb.
  • wabmester
    wabmester Posts: 2,748 Member
    edited April 2016
    Peter Attia is wearing a continuous glucose monitor these days (just because he's an ubergeek). He says he's discovered fascinating things about how he responds to various meals, but he hasn't yet shared the details with the world. I think he did mention that he was kind of shocked by his high glycemic response to rice, though.
  • Sunny_Bunny_
    Sunny_Bunny_ Posts: 7,140 Member
    wabmester wrote: »
    Peter Attia is wearing a continuous glucose monitor these days (just because he's an ubergeek). He says he's discovered fascinating things about how he responds to various meals, but he hasn't yet shared the details with the world. I think he did mention that he was kind of shocked by his high glycemic response to rice, though.

    The problem that will arise once he does share it with the world is that everyone will make the assumption that those same foods will have the exact same effect on them....
  • LowCarbInScotland
    LowCarbInScotland Posts: 1,027 Member
    Twibbly wrote: »
    Here's a conundrum for you. I've been a bit...lax on my low carbing lately (ok, TOTALLY not doing it).

    After I ate rice & chili, for a total of about 65g carbs, my blood sugar was 124 and 137 an hour later. After eating spaghetti & pao, for a total of about 149g carbs, my blood sugar was 90 and 115. No exercise involved either time. Even if my portions/carb numbers were off by half, it's still a HUGE difference. I verified the 90 on another meter (it said 84!) because my brain immediately said that the number had to be wrong. I'm pretty certain that the source of the carbs matters, but different people may react differently.

    And yes, I'm saying to heck with tracking junk meals and going back to low carb.

    If you're diabetic there's more to your blood glucose numbers than just the food you put in your body an hour ago. Stress and illness are two big factors. The way you've been fueling your body over the last few days can impact how it reacts to a particular meal. Your recent exercise regimen will affect the way your body metabolises. As someone who previously used a lot of insulin, I can tell you that it's not fun trying to predict your body's response.
  • Twibbly
    Twibbly Posts: 1,065 Member
    If you're diabetic there's more to your blood glucose numbers than just the food you put in your body an hour ago. Stress and illness are two big factors. The way you've been fueling your body over the last few days can impact how it reacts to a particular meal. Your recent exercise regimen will affect the way your body metabolises. As someone who previously used a lot of insulin, I can tell you that it's not fun trying to predict your body's response.

    Luckily, I'm not diabetic, but I will be if I don't do something about it. It's definitely insane trying to figure out what makes it go up and what doesn't.
  • BalmyD
    BalmyD Posts: 237 Member
    The question for me isn't so much will the carbs in one cup of popcorn kick me out of ketosis (popcorn has some fiber and of the grains corn is a lower on the glycemic index), but rather, can I eat just one cup of popcorn? Do I eat popcorn now? Nope. Will I eat popcorn when I am at goal weight? Probably sometimes.