Ketogenic Diets - Pros & Cons (2015 article)
RalfLott
Posts: 5,036 Member
Adverse Reactions to Ketogenic Diets: Caution Advised
http://www.thepaleomom.com/2015/05/adverse-reactions-to-ketogenic-diets-caution-advised.html
Literature review
http://www.thepaleomom.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Ketogenic-Diet-Literature-Review.pdf
(FYI - Skeptical comments from keto fans follow the article. The few reviews of Paleomom.com on MFP are generally positive.)
0
Replies
-
I've seen the opposite of most the cons during my 7 months keto.
Laughing out loud at the death to all systems warning. So far I'm clear of that one.
7 -
I guess it helps to understand there's more than one path to ketosis. Some of the early diets used to treat epilepsy, for example, were pretty nasty. Low protein. High in vegetable oil. Generally deficient in nutrients.
So if you were to eat the "classical" ketogenic diet long term, you'd be likely to experience many of those cons.
A "well-formulated" ketogenic diet? Not so much.4 -
So if you were to eat the "classical" ketogenic diet long term, you'd be likely to experience many of those cons.
A "well-formulated" ketogenic diet? Not so much.
I have not met any outlaws on the keto highway, but there must be a few laying in wait for some travelers....
The only negative about our wonderfully supportive and knowledgeable LCD group is that we don't tend to hear much from folks not following a ketogenic diet with some degree of success (or at least no bad experiences to date).
1 -
Yeah, they all died.
Did you look at the causes of death in the cited studies? Here's one of them:
10 deaths at follow-up; 7 from children still on keto diet:
o 2 died of pneumonia
o 2 died from epilepsy
o 1 fell from height
o 2 not disclosed5 -
Look how many can be fixed with keeping electrolytes in balance!4
-
Thank you for posting, I have to read the article. The red column could apply to so many other ways of eating, or more likely due to a lack of a few nutrients. I have been reading over the last few days about the epidemic of iodine deficiencies (it's bad folks, not just a thyroid problem), and many of the symptoms read almost exactly as what is listed in the red column. Ketosis is not the core problem.3
-
Look how many can be fixed with keeping electrolytes in balance!
Exactly!KarlynKeto wrote: »Thank you for posting, I have to read the article. The red column could apply to so many other ways of eating, or more likely due to a lack of a few nutrients. I have been reading over the last few days about the epidemic of iodine deficiencies (it's bad folks, not just a thyroid problem), and many of the symptoms read almost exactly as what is listed in the red column. Ketosis is not the core problem.
I don't think ketosis is likely the problem in any way. Sounds like textbook electrolyte imbalance to me, but I wouldn't rule out other deficiencies as well.
1 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Look how many can be fixed with keeping electrolytes in balance!
Exactly!KarlynKeto wrote: »Thank you for posting, I have to read the article. The red column could apply to so many other ways of eating, or more likely due to a lack of a few nutrients. I have been reading over the last few days about the epidemic of iodine deficiencies (it's bad folks, not just a thyroid problem), and many of the symptoms read almost exactly as what is listed in the red column. Ketosis is not the core problem.
I don't think ketosis is likely the problem in any way. Sounds like textbook electrolyte imbalance to me, but I wouldn't rule out other deficiencies as well.
They are so closely related. Iodine is an important mineral too (but arguably much more so). Since upping our electrolytes tend to also increase iodine, it will solve a wider range of symptoms and issues. But many of the deficiencies may be iodine related. (I urge everyone to google Dr Brownstein and/or Jorge Flechas, they have great talks on YouTube)4 -
I'd really like to know how ketosis causes pneumonia?? Pneumonia is caused by bacteria, viruses, and as I just learned from the NHS, apparently some fungi. That doesn't add up to me. That's like saying you're going to catch a cold if you don't wear a jacket outside. Enough of the "mom" science please! Maybe a kiss on the head would have prevented those deaths that were reported, or some of grandma's cookies.3
-
PaleoInScotland wrote: »I'd really like to know how ketosis causes pneumonia?? Pneumonia is caused by bacteria, viruses, and as I just learned from the NHS, apparently some fungi. That doesn't add up to me. That's like saying you're going to catch a cold if you don't wear a jacket outside. Enough of the "mom" science please! Maybe a kiss on the head would have prevented those deaths that were reported, or some of grandma's cookies.
The article and the separate literature review are a bit more substantial than your "straw moms!"0 -
I'm only familiar with one of the authors, Denise Minger. I like her. I even have her book.
She has no background in science, but she can read a BUNCH of studies and she writes well.
You'll have to look at the references yourself to decide how valid they are. The one I looked at was laughable. Others are real concerns IF YOU EAT A "CLASSICAL" KETOGENIC DIET.
Believe me, I'm no keto apologist. I don't even care about ketones. But the VAST majority of those "cons" are about nutritional deficiencies -- not about the ketogenicity of the diet.
Ketones are natural. We evolved to make them to feed our brain in the absence of glucose. So unless you believe we were "designed" to eat boundless carbs year-round, then we're talking about a diet we're well adapted to eat and thrive on.
If you have specific concerns, I'd be happy to dig into them with you. I love reading these studies almost as much as Ms. Minger does. 5 -
If you have specific concerns, I'd be happy to dig into them with you. I love reading these studies almost as much as Ms. Minger does.
Thanks @wabmester - a very kind and generous offer. I may take you up on it down the road.
I don't have any specific concerns at the moment, as a well-formulated ketogenic diet appears to be tailor-made for my circumstances (carb-intolerant T2D).
But when others ask me whether a ketogenic diet would be good for them or if there are people who, for whatever reason, would be better off at higher carb or protein levels, I'm at a loss.
About the only intelligent (?) things I can think of are:- repeat Phinney's pet reminder that specialized diets affect different people in different ways;
- warn people to take precautions in order to avoid prolonged "keto flu"; and,
- if they're diabetic, urge them to read and test compulsively.
2 -
The reason somebody went to the trouble to make that pro and con list is because ketosis is shrouded in mystery.
People will decide for themselves based on whatever sources they choose to believe.
Right now we're in a weird state of misinformation. Not just about ketosis, but about nutrition in general. Our government agencies are confused. Our medical professionals are confused. They've been confused for at least 50 years now.
Probably the best we can do for now is to direct people to a discussion forum like this one where they can express their concerns and we can reprogram them. 4 -
The reason somebody went to the trouble to make that pro and con list is because ketosis is shrouded in mystery.
People will decide for themselves based on whatever sources they choose to believe.
Right now we're in a weird state of misinformation. Not just about ketosis, but about nutrition in general. Our government agencies are confused. Our medical professionals are confused. They've been confused for at least 50 years now.
Probably the best we can do for now is to direct people to a discussion forum like this one where they can express their concerns and we can reprogram them.
Good advice - as long as you and your soulmates aren't planning to retire from (de)programming any time soon!3 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Look how many can be fixed with keeping electrolytes in balance!
Exactly!KarlynKeto wrote: »Thank you for posting, I have to read the article. The red column could apply to so many other ways of eating, or more likely due to a lack of a few nutrients. I have been reading over the last few days about the epidemic of iodine deficiencies (it's bad folks, not just a thyroid problem), and many of the symptoms read almost exactly as what is listed in the red column. Ketosis is not the core problem.
I don't think ketosis is likely the problem in any way. Sounds like textbook electrolyte imbalance to me, but I wouldn't rule out other deficiencies as well.
How can one be sure their electrolytes are in balance? Blood tests? Any way besides that?1 -
Without the % of each macro and total calories pros/cons mean little to me.
Ketogenic diet means different things to different people.
3 -
wheatlessgirl66 wrote: »How can one be sure their electrolytes are in balance? Blood tests? Any way besides that?
Your kidneys take care of the balance. You just need to ensure your intake is sufficient.
Again, I feel like I need to stress the nature of the diets in these studies. The diets were weird. And they were fed mostly to kids. The kids rejected the weird diets and suffered malnutrition as a result.
Why were the diets weird? They were designed to maximize ketone production. Why did they try to maximize ketones? THAT is a good question! They may have been misguided in that goal. Those same researchers are now moving towards more natural diets. Low glycemic. Modified Atkins. Equally effective, but without the nasty side effects.
So if there's a lesson here, maybe it's don't eat a weird diet in a misguided effort to maximize ketones.
Focus on high nutrient density. Whole foods. Naturally low carb. Don't worry about maximizing ketones.7 -
Blood ketones in the 1-2 range is as good as it gets in my case. When the reading is >2.0 I may grab some carrots, an apple or something whole food with fiber and carbs.2
-
wheatlessgirl66 wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »Look how many can be fixed with keeping electrolytes in balance!
Exactly!KarlynKeto wrote: »Thank you for posting, I have to read the article. The red column could apply to so many other ways of eating, or more likely due to a lack of a few nutrients. I have been reading over the last few days about the epidemic of iodine deficiencies (it's bad folks, not just a thyroid problem), and many of the symptoms read almost exactly as what is listed in the red column. Ketosis is not the core problem.
I don't think ketosis is likely the problem in any way. Sounds like textbook electrolyte imbalance to me, but I wouldn't rule out other deficiencies as well.
How can one be sure their electrolytes are in balance? Blood tests? Any way besides that?
You get symptoms pretty quickly when they are low. No testing is needed because it's pretty easy to figure out. If you're feeling symptoms like what's mentioned in the launchpad write up about electrolytes, https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10358179/dizzy-weak-tired-headaches-cramping-muscles-electrolyte-imbalance-may-be-your-problem#latest and you then think about your salt intake and realize you've made no effort to get enough and/or you drink lots and lots of water, like the way people do when they are on a mission to get X-ounces a day because it's a challenge or somebody told them they should, then you may be creating an unnatural imbalance.
I say, drink when you're thirsty, don't try to force down a certain amount of water like it's your job, salt all your food to taste and eat extra salty things (like pickles or broth) on days you're working hard or sweating or super active.
I am also a believer in supplements. I think we do our body a big favor by supplementing a good form of magnesium at our maximum tolerance dosage.6 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I say, drink when you're thirsty, don't try to force down a certain amount of water like it's your job, salt all your food to taste and eat extra salty things (like pickles or broth) on days you're working hard or sweating or super active.
I am also a believer in supplements. I think we do our body a big favor by supplementing a good form of magnesium at our maximum tolerance dosage.
But as I've learned with a 89-year old ancestor (who says he's suffering from "almost 90 syndrome" - but only temporarily), if you're a lady or gentleman (or not) of advancing years, your sense of thirst tends to decrease, possibly below the level needed to keep yourself adequately hydrated.
And if you're diabetic and don't tend to drink enough, the concentration of glucose in your blood can climb merely because there's insufficient fluid to dilute the sugar that's there.
Our bodies also tend to need more of some essential nutrients as we fossilize (such as Vitamin D), so we'd be doing ourselves an extra-large favor by getting an age-appropriate dose of the right supplements.
5 -
So the moral of this article is, cake or death?0
-
Yeah, they all died.
Did you look at the causes of death in the cited studies? Here's one of them:
10 deaths at follow-up; 7 from children still on keto diet:
o 2 died of pneumonia
o 2 died from epilepsy
o 1 fell from height
o 2 not disclosed
Bwahahahaha! I started laughing so loud that startled my family. I had to read all of this to my husband and boys.... They had a good laugh too.
I do wish keto mom had not used a medically prescribed classical ketogenic diet for this article. She really was not clear that it was not your usual ketogenic diet. I know many people who read her stuff, and that was quite misleading.
The chart was very wrong for me too. Even the low platelet count was problem for me 20+ years ago. And the high lipid panel? I don't know.... She seemed to intentionaly mislead or she was using dated information. I didn't look at her sources so I guess I should do that.0 -
annalisbeth74 wrote: »So the moral of this article is, cake or death?
Wait a minute... If I choose death, you're going to make me eat cake anyhow. Shenanigans!3 -
Pro: Death
Con: Cake1 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I say, drink when you're thirsty, don't try to force down a certain amount of water like it's your job, salt all your food
Our bodies also tend to need more of some essential nutrients as we fossilize (such as Vitamin D), so we'd be doing ourselves an extra-large favor by getting an age-appropriate dose of the right supplements.
LOL!!!!!!!1
This discussion has been closed.