What is up with this trend I'm seeing???
anewlifeat40
Posts: 179 Member
I watch a lot of weight loss and keto vlogs on YT, plus I follow a lot of the same people and similar people on instagram and I've noticed a trend towards "cheat days" or "refeeding" or "carb loading". They do 6 days of an extremely rigid weighed, measured, restrictive diet, and then one day of eating anything they want. And on those cheat days they seem to be bingeing on total crap junk food... I'm talking sugary cereal, donuts, ice cream, cookies, chips, fast food, etc... It makes zero sense to me... Anyone know why people are doing this??? It seems so counterintuitive to me. I had an eating disorder for 17 years, I'm 10 years binge free, so looking at it through that filter it just it seems so unbalanced, and potentially setting themselves up to regain a lot of weight if they ever stop working out hard. Why not spread a bit more carbs over the whole week and skip the binge? I'm so confused...
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It doesn't make any sense to me either! I wouldn't be where I am today if I had allowed that in my life. My first dive back into junkyard carbs and I would have remained heels up in the bag/box! KCKO!!8
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I have seen some folks choose to go super low cal / low carb, then do a refeed somewhere around days 5 - 7. They typically up their calories close to maintenance for that day, go high carb low fat, then repeat the cycle.
In my opinion, this is a trend for folks who aren't fat adapted, and feel that it's necessary to replenish glycogen stores and "get a good workout". Personally, I've found that with a little time, you can work out just as well routinely when allowing yourself to fat adapt.
That, and knowing "3 more days and I can have XYZ" is probably easier for some folks who have trouble feeling super restricted... like me
Not that I recommend a refeed. 3 -
It doesn't make any sense to me either! I wouldn't be where I am today if I had allowed that in my life. My first dive back into junkyard carbs and I would have remained heels up in the bag/box! KCKO!!
THANK YOU!! I haven't commented on it to them because I thought maybe I was missing something and didn't want to come across as the *kitten*.2 -
Panda_Poptarts wrote: »In my opinion, this is a trend for folks who aren't fat adapted, and feel that it's necessary to replenish glycogen stores and "get a good workout". Personally, I've found that with a little time, you can work out just as well routinely when allowing yourself to fat adapt.
That, and knowing "3 more days and I can have XYZ" is probably easier for some folks who have trouble feeling super restricted... like me Not that I recommend a refeed.
Ahhh... Yeah, maybe... I have SO much MORE energy eating keto though... My husband has been feeling down about some family stuff and yesterday I dropped by work to see him and his energy had visibly bottomed out. He was yawning and struggling to stake away between clients... I was asking if I should go get him a snack to perk him up and he told me he'd just had two donuts and a muffin... Well no wonder!! It totally reminded me of those terrible carb/sugar afternoon crashes I used to have before keto... He's slim and fit, and addicted to his carbs, I think it's an emotional dependency, but I really wish I could convince him to try keto just for his energy levels alone...3 -
I saw this WOE advocated on a website that calls itself a keto site (don't want to give the name). You ate very, very high fat (90% for 5 or 6 days and then had a refeed day, though it recommended eating sweet potatoes and other tubers for starches and as high fat as you cared to. This was supposed to cause significant weight loss, even a pound a day over 2 or 3 months. This struck me as insane. Add starch to my diet means immediate stoppage of weight loss or weight gain if I eat more than a half cup or so.
I don't see how your body can become adjusted to burning fat if you keep throwing carbs into it ever 6 or 7 days. Plus, if you have any carb addiction, it is just going to restart the cravings for carbs that aren't good for you which is perhaps how the people eating donuts, cookies, ice cream, etc., ended up eating those foods again.3 -
I think it's a few things
Something emotional that feels like a break from the deprivation. RME
Something about fueling an intense workout or the idea that you need insulin to build muscle.
And then there's the idea of "confusing" the body. Whatever
But, in so many cases that come across on here when it has been asked about, seems to follow 2 main themes. Either the idea that a cheat day is needed in order to maintain long term adherence. Sometimes the idea of never having certain things again is just not something that be committed to and also, the idea that you can have a random normal sized serving or even smaller of something forbidden once in a blue moon without the need to give it its own special day or meal to freely binge on it is just still too limiting. I personally dislike planned cheats because then people tend to look forward to it like its Christmas or something and it's just junk food... What is so special that you need to look forward to? I get stuff tastes good, but lots of stuff I eat tastes good. Even if I wanted a sweet something that tastes good, I could do that without downing a pound of sugar or creating a special day on its behalf. I have issues with the way these foods are held in such high regard to basically be celebrated on certain days while being off limits on others. It makes no sense and if the disordered eating in that isn't obvious then our eyes are closed.
And as far as the being able to consume a small amount... I was never good at moderation so I understand not being able to just have a bite or two. But, at this point, I've eliminated sweet tasting foods from my daily eating and now they are just for sometimes. If I ever feel like I need something... That's my first sign to go without for a bit longer. Because of this, I can easily take a couple bites of regular ice cream (literally 2 small spoonfuls) and stop. If I want to taste that flavor, I can do that without having to continue tasting it for the next 15 minutes while I eat the whole bowl. Moderation has become possible for me now, I think because I've kicked sugar addictions behind!
And the other main theme is about exercise performance. I have no experience here but, it seems you are either willing to push through to enjoy fat adapted exercise that comes later, or you're not and choose to use the carbs. I have zero opinions on these, but I think if I were athletic, I would be interested in the fat adaptation myself.3 -
Keep in mind, these targeted keto diets have their roots in the powerlifting and bodybuilding worlds. Their spread from there, has just been due to the typical internet uptake of "clearly, since this world record setting lifter/pro wrestler/whatever eats this way, I should too", not understanding the WHY.6
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To me it seems like they are taking carb ups or carbcycling to an extreme. I've heard that one day of adding more veg, or a sweet potato or something then going back to strict low carb high fat promotes more weight loss. I don't do it but I think that's what's going on. People are misunderstanding what it really is.3
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@Sunny_Bunny_ I live with two skinny fit (never been fat) sugar fiends who miss me eating sugar with them... I think it's so silly, I still have "treats" like SF jello with whipped cream, or Lily's milk chocolate, I just don't feel the need to eat all that other crap anymore. We are going camping at the end of the month and they are planning and anticipating all the treats they will have (they still eat treats now, so I don't really get what's so special about eating them while camping! LOL). The only thing I can think of wanting that MIGHT count as a cheat (it won't really because I can easily fit it into my macros) is fresh fruit. LOL
In my opinion (and acknowledging I'm still a total newb at 2.5 months in to doing keto) making this WOE "keto for life" makes so much more sense to me. If I was always saving "treats" for a cheat day, that would make this WOE a "diet" not a way of life, which is in no way what I'm going for... thus the username...
And I'd always worry I'd have a cheat day and the cheat day wouldn't end, and I'd regain all the progress I've made... 5 -
GlitterRayne wrote: »To me it seems like they are taking carb ups or carbcycling to an extreme. I've heard that one day of adding more veg, or a sweet potato or something then going back to strict low carb high fat promotes more weight loss. I don't do it but I think that's what's going on. People are misunderstanding what it really is.
No, they're not misunderstanding, they're misusing. A lot of Strongman athletes will use pre-workout carb-ups, as will many powerlifters. These usually include a LOT of fast digesting sugars, like dextrose, and various refined sugars. This is because of their volume and intensity. Keto is great for endurance. It's *kitten* for intensity. When every move you make while training is an explosive one, loss of explosive performance won't do.
One must also keep in mind though, many (if not most) of these athletes have completely altered their hormonal balance, via various forms of gear, and the way they eat should NEVER be applied to someone who isn't doing so. It's a good way to get fat, and little else.9 -
anewlifeat40 wrote: »Panda_Poptarts wrote: »In my opinion, this is a trend for folks who aren't fat adapted, and feel that it's necessary to replenish glycogen stores and "get a good workout". Personally, I've found that with a little time, you can work out just as well routinely when allowing yourself to fat adapt.
That, and knowing "3 more days and I can have XYZ" is probably easier for some folks who have trouble feeling super restricted... like me Not that I recommend a refeed.
Ahhh... Yeah, maybe... I have SO much MORE energy eating keto though... My husband has been feeling down about some family stuff and yesterday I dropped by work to see him and his energy had visibly bottomed out. He was yawning and struggling to stake away between clients... I was asking if I should go get him a snack to perk him up and he told me he'd just had two donuts and a muffin... Well no wonder!! It totally reminded me of those terrible carb/sugar afternoon crashes I used to have before keto... He's slim and fit, and addicted to his carbs, I think it's an emotional dependency, but I really wish I could convince him to try keto just for his energy levels alone...
I agree. I struggled with nonstop dizziness after a couple months of keto. I'm suspecting low blood sugar, since my electrolytes were on point (via blood test). I've found a happy medium, I think, since upping my carbs to the 70 - 90 gram range and reincorporating some grains. I still have much, MUCH more energy than I ever had eating a low fat diet.
For me, it seems like it makes more sense to pick one thing and stick to it. Whether low carb works for you, or no carb works for you, or you prefer the standard American diet... stick to it!!!3 -
Personally, I think I am allergic to white carbs. When eating bread, pasta, white potatoes, and sweets, I bloat up, feel very tired, get hangry and cravings and lose my taste for good nutrition. As anyone would, with an allergy, I need to avoid those foods that trigger bad physical reactions. This mindset keeps me straight, so far. 6
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Personally, I think I am allergic to white carbs. When eating bread, pasta, white potatoes, and sweets, I bloat up, feel very tired, get hangry and cravings and lose my taste for good nutrition. As anyone would, with an allergy, I need to avoid those foods that trigger bad physical reactions. This mindset keeps me straight, so far.
Same here. I never thought of it as an allergy per se, but more of a sensitivity in that my body does not like to digest those things. White flour, white rice, potatoes, pasta...I always loved really good sourdough bread, but it sure didn't love me. And I should have realized when I could never stop at one slice (sometimes eating almost half a loaf in one sitting!) that there was some kind of addiction going on there.2 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »
A lot of Strongman athletes will use pre-workout carb-ups, as will many powerlifters. These usually include a LOT of fast digesting sugars, like dextrose, and various refined sugars. This is because of their volume and intensity. Keto is great for endurance. It's *kitten* for intensity. When every move you make while training is an explosive one, loss of explosive performance won't do.GlitterRayne wrote: »To me it seems like they are taking carb ups or carbcycling to an extreme. I've heard that one day of adding more veg, or a sweet potato or something then going back to strict low carb high fat promotes more weight loss. I don't do it but I think that's what's going on. People are misunderstanding what it really is.
Jeff Volek is a powerlifter and one of the longest-running keto advocates. He might take issue with your *kitten* theory.0 -
@anewlifeat40 - It does sound nutty, especially in light of @Gallowmere1984's observation that it appears to have been wrenched out of the powerlifting context and plopped on the mess hall table without instructions.
Being T2D, I see carb cheat days as something like an alcoholic saying, "I've been sober for 7 years, not counting Fridays."8 -
I would say for many it may be a way to make it work for them long term. I remember the days in the beginning feeling so full of energy and wonderful and thinking is never touch the foods I used to eat again because keto was so simple and the foods were delicious. For everyone that feeling doesn't always last forever though. For some several strict days followed by an allow anything day may be more sustainable and keep them from going carb crazy every day.4
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Sounds dangerous and a bad idea to me, o.p.
The reason I love keto is because to me, it's a way of life, not a temporary thing...so when people don't sustain it and do these cheating things, I feel like it's reckless and they're just a waste of my time to pay attention to.
I had something yesterday with sugar in it...I think it was the salad dressing...anyway I only had 1 tb of it on my salad and my tongue and side of one of my lips burned the rest of the day. I actually have redness on my lip, like you'd get if you burned yourself on something hot. So yeah, @kmn118 ...sensitivity to starches/sugars is a real thing, I guess!2 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I get stuff tastes good, but lots of stuff I eat tastes good.
THIS. I'm sick of people asking me how the *kitten* I live without sugar, pasta, bread, etc. and I am a broken record, saying "I'm not deprived. I am loving every bite."
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They're rationalizing by claiming some nonsense need to do a regular 'refeed'. That drive to rationalize comes either from their addiction or their struggle with not being seen as 'normal' either by themselves or others. Sorry to be so blunt but it's just so much nonsense.4
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It does sound like wishful thinking, but on the other hand, the era of high-quality studies in nutrition is in its infancy, if it's that far.
We may all be surprised at what the benefit of hindsight will reveal in 10-20 years....
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I think some of it might just be making keto the new "it" thing, but making it more doable for the masses. Most people could do keto for 5 or 6 days a week. That eat all you want day makes it look like you don't have to give anything up. People won't get the full health benefits with the splurge day but it makes it seem more accessible.
I think keto is just getting trendy. They're dumbing it down a bit so it fits into popular culture better. Maybe.5 -
Meh. She'd lose that scary wide backside if she did keto. Or not.... I wonder what she had "done" to end up looking like that. It's a bit weird, IMO.4 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »
A lot of Strongman athletes will use pre-workout carb-ups, as will many powerlifters. These usually include a LOT of fast digesting sugars, like dextrose, and various refined sugars. This is because of their volume and intensity. Keto is great for endurance. It's *kitten* for intensity. When every move you make while training is an explosive one, loss of explosive performance won't do.GlitterRayne wrote: »To me it seems like they are taking carb ups or carbcycling to an extreme. I've heard that one day of adding more veg, or a sweet potato or something then going back to strict low carb high fat promotes more weight loss. I don't do it but I think that's what's going on. People are misunderstanding what it really is.
Jeff Volek is a powerlifter and one of the longest-running keto advocates. He might take issue with your *kitten* theory.
Not to take anything away from him, but comparing Volek to the likes of Jamie Lewis, Dan Green, and Stan Efferding is a bit of a stretch, to say the least. I am talking about powerlifters performing at the highest rungs.0 -
Ah, gotcha. I can't recall if he's looked at any of the top dogs in powerlifting, but I'll try to remember to check next time I'm stuck waiting to post bail.1
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Meh. She'd lose that scary wide backside if she did keto. Or not.... I wonder what she had "done" to end up looking like that. It's a bit weird, IMO.
It's the best smile she's got...... (which ain't sayin' much).1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Not to take anything away from him, but comparing Volek to the likes of Jamie Lewis, Dan Green, and Stan Efferding is a bit of a stretch, to say the least. I am talking about powerlifters performing at the highest rungs.
Great sport begins where good health ends. - John Hoberman in this book: https://www.amazon.com/Mortal-Engines-Science-Performance-Dehumanization/dp/1930665377
I'm reminded of what people performing at the highest rungs were doing 30 years ago...also, it's risky to adopt the nutrition or exercise regimen of pharmaceuticly-assisted professional athletes that are making their living lifting unless that is your ambition.8 -
Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I get stuff tastes good, but lots of stuff I eat tastes good.
THIS. I'm sick of people asking me how the *kitten* I live without sugar, pasta, bread, etc. and I am a broken record, saying "I'm not deprived. I am loving every bite."
Heck - if it doesn't taste good I don't eat it. Why would I eat something I don't like just because it fits into my WOE? When I ate low fat for all those years I didn't eat rice cakes because they suck. So why would anyone do that now? There are so many wonderful foods in our WOE that just hit home for me. Tonight I sliced a pork roast up in thin slices and made pork/veggie stir fry and can I just tell you...it tastes wonderful with nearly no carbs - and the carbs that are in it are from veggies....oh so good!1 -
I watch a couple channels of people who have lost of a lot of weight and then they go on to compete in physique type competitions, and the contrast between the cutting before a competition and then the bingeing afterwards makes me cringe so hard.
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RowdysLady wrote: »Sunny_Bunny_ wrote: »I get stuff tastes good, but lots of stuff I eat tastes good.
THIS. I'm sick of people asking me how the *kitten* I live without sugar, pasta, bread, etc. and I am a broken record, saying "I'm not deprived. I am loving every bite."
Heck - if it doesn't taste good I don't eat it. Why would I eat something I don't like just because it fits into my WOE? When I ate low fat for all those years I didn't eat rice cakes because they suck. So why would anyone do that now? There are so many wonderful foods in our WOE that just hit home for me. Tonight I sliced a pork roast up in thin slices and made pork/veggie stir fry and can I just tell you...it tastes wonderful with nearly no carbs - and the carbs that are in it are from veggies....oh so good!
Today I posted these pics of the taco salad I had for dinner and the keto crepes I had for lunch on my FB page and everyone was drooling over the pics... Total net carbs for these two very filling delicious meals was 24. I'll take this way of eating and feeling THIS great over crap carbs ANY day!
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