jenbob1985 wrote: »

Hey Patrick! Your client Jen here I just watched your first video reply to AigreDoux about nutrient timing. I match one of your scenarios (fairly lean and attempting a lean bulk) where you said you would want to see good pre- and post- workout nutrition. I currently do eat both before and after my workouts, but I'd be really interested to hear if you have any specific recommendations on macros and calories for each (quick reminder: current intake is ~2800 calories with 130g+ protein and typically 370-380g carbs). Maybe we can chat about this in our next call? Thanks!

jenbob1985 wrote: »

Hey Patrick! Your client Jen here I just watched your first video reply to AigreDoux about nutrient timing. I match one of your scenarios (fairly lean and attempting a lean bulk) where you said you would want to see good pre- and post- workout nutrition. I currently do eat both before and after my workouts, but I'd be really interested to hear if you have any specific recommendations on macros and calories for each (quick reminder: current intake is ~2800 calories with 130g+ protein and typically 370-380g carbs). Maybe we can chat about this in our next call? Thanks!

sijomial wrote: »

SideSteel wrote: »

sijomial wrote: »

SideSteel wrote: »

sijomial wrote: »

Happy New Year.
I have a goal of bench pressing BW x 1.5 but have been stuck shy of that for all of 2016 - advice/guidance on how to break my plateau would be appreciated as I'm very goal driven and it frustrates the hell out of me!
Me: Age 56, maintaining weight at c. 77kg, bench goal 115.5kg, stuck at 3RM 100kg.
My technique is based on the Jennifer Thompson bench tutorial these days (used to bench flat backed) highest lifetime bench (decades ago) was 130kg.

My strength training is x3 a week and typically bench press twice a week with a barbell and once a week on a machine at my work gym which allegedly goes to 100kg but feels more like 90kg with a slight decline (but at least I can fail without pinning myself to the bench, my lift tends to fail at the bottom of the movement...).
I also have access to a plate loaded incline bench machine (TechnoGym) but rarely use it.

I train in a pyramid style and don't go lower than 3RM as that seems to help prevent injury. I know that's not ideal for hitting maximums but have an old supraspinatus tendon injury I need to avoid aggravating.

"Typical" barbell session would be:
50kg x 12 (warmup)
60kg x 10
70kg x 8
80kg x 6
90kg x 4
100kg x 3 very shaky reps

Any help appreciated.

Great post.

I have a lot of thoughts on this and I'm just leaving for the gym now but I'll reply a few times here as I chew on this, so to speak.

One criticism I have of pyramid training is that often times there's too much fatigue accumulation in the lower intensity sets and it negatively effect performance in the top set or sets.

I can't say for certain whether that's going on here, but I'd like to know the following from you:

a) Can you approximate the RPE or the number of reps in reserve (either language is fine) starting with the 60kg set and going all the way to the end?

b) Do you always do that set and rep scheme and then do you evaluate your progress based on the number of reps of the 100kg set?


What you've basically got here when we look at this in %rm is:

1x8@65%
1x6@75%
1x4@85%
1x3@92.5 to 95%

Anyway, I have some initial ideas here but I'd like to first hear your answers to my two questions about before suggesting how to modify the layout.

One criticism I have of pyramid training is that often times there's too much fatigue accumulation in the lower intensity sets and it negatively effect performance in the top set or sets.
Agree.
I seem to tolerate high volume quite well and my recovery between sets is good (high level cardio fitness probably helps). I increase the recovery time between sets as the weight progresses from virtually none to 3 mins before last set.

a ) Can you approximate the RPE or the number of reps in reserve (either language is fine) starting with the 60kg set and going all the way to the end?
Reps in reserve on a good day, I stop early on a bad gym day if I feel I've hit that day's max:

60kg x 10 - still warming up, 10 left?
70kg x 8 - 6 or 7
80kg x 6 - 4 or 5
90kg x 4 - 2 maybe 3.
100kg - nothing, safety bars in danger of being used (OK - I admit I have done the "wiggle of shame" a couple of times...)

b) Do you always do that set and rep scheme and then do you evaluate your progress based on the number of reps of the 100kg set?
It's not unusual to add a second 100kg set if I feel there's something left in the tank.
That's my most frequent style of strength work (workout typically is heavy compounds 2 push/2 pull upper body as the foundation then add either core work or accessory work or leg work).
I train in a circuit training style sometimes (still mostly compounds but alternating push/pull/upper/lower) and the bench component may be 10 x 10 but still ascending weight.

I am really looking for ultimate strength as my progress metric for bench and other upper body compounds.
Core work is all about strength endurance for me (I'm a long distance cyclist.)
Leg strength work is injury limited for weight and also limited to allow recovery from cycle training.

So here's one way you could attempt to set this up. Consider this as somewhat of napkin programming but I think this is likely to work well for you.

I'm going to list this in lbs instead of kg, hopefully that''s not too annoying. I'll assume 3 training days per week, I'll assume you're benching first as your main press movement (meaning, if you squat before that, fine, but I'm assuming you're not doing things like a tricep extension before benching which I doubt you would because you know better)


I'm going to outline this such that the TOP LINE is week 1 and each line below that is the next WEEK.

Day 1
4 x 8 @ 165
4 x 7 @ 170
4 x 6 @ 175
5 x 5 @ 180
5 x 4 @ 185
6 x 3 @ 195


Day 3
4 x 5 @ 180
5 x 4 @ 190
6 x 3 @ 200
6 x 2 @ 210
8 x 1 @ 220
Test AMRAP at 220 week 6


Skip all pressing movements on day 2 week 6 -- so basically whatever you do at your non benching gym in that middle session, skip pressing entirely for recovery and maybe take it easy on other stuff as well.

I would expect the first few weeks to be pretty easy although it's possible that even at the lower intensities you may still feel like this is a good amount of volume since you're doing straight sets across

For warmups I'll just list 1 example of how you could do this, lets assume it's Day 3 @ 180lbs

Empty bar 1 to 2 sets of 10+
95 x 8 (optional if you can go straight to 135)
135 x 6 - 8
155 x 4
170 x 1 to 2
180 working sets


Example for 220
Empty Bar 1 to 2 sets of 10+
95 x 8 (optional if you can go straight to 135)
135 x 6 - 8
155 x 4
175 x 1 to 2
190 x 1
205 x 1
220 working sets


The other thing I'd add to the above is that I'd expect the following things, or I'd recommend them:

1) On the middle day where you're at your non benching gym I'd keep rep ranges in the 6 to 15 range depending on the exercise and I'd make sure you're limiting it to about RPE 8 on most sets. Don't take pressing movements to failure and don't do an assload of volume.

2) On the main benching days I would expect your RPE on working sets to range between about 6 and 8 for most sets with the final sets being slightly more challenging, but I wouldn't expect you to be flirting with failure at all.

Let me know if you have questions, you're not obligated to run this just because I took the time to lay it out. I found this question interesting and I've been doing a lot of thinking about programming in the past few weeks so I felt compelled to crank this out -- no guarantees to others in this thread that I'll always do this to this level of detail but you're of course always welcome to ask.

End of week one feedback......
Your estimated loading ranges for the working sets were excellent!

Week one Day 1
4 x 8 @ 165lbs suggested - actual was 4 x 7 @ 165

Week one Day 3
4 x 5 @ 180lbs suggested - actual was 4 x 5 @ 176

Knocked it back slightly as shoulder grumbling a bit and also realised I had been a bit lazy on form recently on my lighter lifts (just pumping them out because I could....). Concentrating on a plan rather than doing things by feel sharpened me up a bit.

Kept the RPE down this first week by lifting without safety bars to ensure I kept a couple of reps in the bank.

AnvilHead wrote: »

SideSteel wrote: »

ryry_ wrote: »

Just stopping by to say thanks for the tip on the bench grip. I was definitely gripping the bench like a baseball bat which was adding unneccessary torque on my wrists. feels much more comfortable gripping it deep in the palms.

Additional question since you appear to be the master. One of my goals for the new year is to get back to squatting. My main limitation when I attempt them (no weight or light weight) is severe lack of mobility in the hip and groin region.

What do consider the go to resources for fixing this issue.

one thing you can try to do is a rockback test on all fours to diagnose whether it's actually hip mobility or not.


Place your fee up against a wall while on all fours and rock your hips backwards. See if you can get your hips below your knees while on all fours. In theory, this would demonstrate that you have the necessary mobility to hit a deep squat position and the issues you have may not directly be mobility related, it could be balance or proprioception.

Additionally, sometimes due to hip anatomy people get bone on bone contact at the bottom of the squat depending on the angle of the hip sockets and the shape of the femoral neck.

In some cases it's a matter of experimentation -- try going narrower and also try wider and see if either of these provides an easier time hitting depth.

Finally, if it ends up being tightness in those areas you can try some general mobility work like segments of Agile 8 or Limber 11 (Joe DeFranco), you can try foam rolling just before squatting to see if you get a short term mobility benefit, you can try frequent goblet squatting to a box and over weeks, lower the box (start with it at a height that you can hit depth, obviously.

Those are initial thoughts anyway.

It wasn't directed at me, but thanks for posting that rockback test. I have big trouble hitting parallel on squats (I'm 6'6"), and I just tried that test. No problem getting my hips well below my knees, but my ankle flexibility completely sucks - I can't get my heels against the wall no matter what I do.

If I try to do a standing body weight squat, I have to keep my back at about a 45 degree angle as I descend and can't hit parallel without falling over backward (and it gets worse when I do weighted squats). I can go ATG and keep my upper body fairly upright with my heels on the ground if I hang on to something in front of me, but I'd be on my butt the second I let go.

Interesting test. I've always wondered if my lack of mobility was in my hips or ankles. Now I know why I look like an origami project and can only hit about 3/4 depth when squatting.